So the Kids get energy regen but frames don't?

[(PSN)Croewe]

Look I've made (extremely) long posts in the past detailing why frames need an outside source of energy not tied to frames/Loadout. If you want a full list of my idea (again it's extremely long) here but most people just won't want to read that so here are the basic points. 

-Most games have innate mana regen and those who don't are balanced around it (such as Dark souls 3).

 

-The only non Loadout specific energy source(not including void orbs) is rng based and only enough for a single use of your first ability.

 

Now some potential solutions.

 

-Add an innate 1 energy a second Passive to all frames.

A much needed passive that can even be boosted because that is still a fourth ability a little over every minute and a half.

 

 

-As your operator uses energy your frame gets some.

This would do what they've been trying to encourage and make your kids useful in combat as a secondary battery of sorts.

 

-Killing enemies in certain ways nets energy such as multiple headshots in a row, killing several enemies with one shot, ground finishers, etc.

These could provide extra energy for being skilled.

 

-Add in more void orb like effects to missions where if you do certain interactions with stuff (like say hitting a bullseye on a target) you get energy. These can pop up every few minutes in endless missions and provide Rewards based on accuracy.

This can make the environment more alive by adding in interactive things for it.

 

Edit: No doing a tedious activity every couple of seconds is not a fun way of getting energy aka zenurik.

Edited December 10, 2017 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[KennBone]

agreed on energy regen, but 1 per second its just not enougth .. with the new zenurik im getting 5 per second and many times not enougth it should be 6 or 7 per second.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Energy Siphon, taking damage w/ Rage equipped, Zenurik, a Trinity, a Harrow, energy pads, or energy orbs 'cause surely you don't need your powers to deal with a few enemies at the start of the mission to get rolling?

There's already a plethora of energy in the game, and if you find yourself running out it just mean's you're either terrible at energy management or messed up modding your warframe.

Edited December 10, 2017 by TheGrimCorsair

[(PSN)Croewe]

29 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Energy Siphon,

 

Not anywhere near enough. 42 seconds for your first Ability and 167 seconds for your ultimate.

29 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

taking damage w/ Rage equipped,

 

How many frames are able to take advantage of this at sortie levels?

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Zenurik, 

The are other focus schools and doing a tedious activity every twenty to thirty seconds is not fun.

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aTrinity, a Harrow, 

We should not be relying on specific frames for energy that is bad game design.

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energyorbs 'cause surely you don't need your powers to deal with a few enemies at the start of the mission to get rolling?

Did I not just say that rng based orbs are not a healthy economy?

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There's already a plethora of energy in the game,

There is plenty in the game but it all requires specific Loadouts /frames/ companions and other stuff when we should have this innately.

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and if you find yourself running out it just mean's you're either terrible at energy management or messed up modding your warframe.

I have no problem with energy myself seeing as I have arcane energize (THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM) which most people are unable to access. 

Edited December 10, 2017 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

1 energy/sec sounds extremely reasonable to me. It doesn't break anything, and it helps to offset orb deficit. I've made similar complaints in the past. All my builds are designed to be energy self-sufficient, but unfortunately some setups aren't possible even with (old) Zenurik. Although in some cases, I think tweaks to the frame are more appropriate, due to other issues with their kit. I can name examples, but that would require explanations as to why efficiency adjustments render the build impotent, and I need to get back to my mass hemocide.

But yeah, 1 energy/sec sounds very good to me.

[(XBOX)BaconHunter111]

If only the kids can regenerate energy for frames (Zenurik)

If only we had frames that can regenerate energy (Trin & Harrow)

If only we had an Aura that regenerates Energy (Energy siphon)

If only we had ability efficiency mods (Streamline, Fleeting Expertise)

 

The kids need it because DE probably decided they'd rather not have the kids take energy from frames by absorbing the energy orbs, so they added regenerative energy.

[(PSN)Croewe]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

1 energy/sec sounds extremely reasonable to me. It doesn't break anything, and it helps to offset orb deficit. I've made similar complaints in the past. All my builds are designed to be energy self-sufficient, but unfortunately some setups aren't possible even with (old) Zenurik. Although in some cases, I think tweaks to the frame are more appropriate, due to other issues with their kit. I can name examples, but that would require explanations as to why efficiency adjustments render the build impotent, and I need to get back to my mass hemocide.

But yeah, 1 energy/sec sounds very good to me.

Good luck in your hemocide (I'm trying to get 100 for my clan as well) and yes there are many builds locked out because of energy (when we should promote build variety).

Edited December 10, 2017 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[(PSN)Croewe]

9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)BaconHunter111 said:

If only the kids can regenerate energy for frames (Zenurik)

You should be rewarded for skillful play, not doing a tedious activity every twenty to thirty seconds.

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If only we had frames that can regenerate energy (Trin & Harrow)

We should not be reliant on frames for energy.

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If only we had an Aura that regenerates Energy (Energy siphon)

If only we had ability efficiency mods (Streamline, Fleeting Expertise)

Our Loadouts skills not be limited by energy. Rather they should expand on the stuff we have.

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The kids need it because DE probably decided they'd rather not have the kids take energy from frames by absorbing the energy orbs, so they added regenerative energy.

And they can't take energy from frames because they don't have enough.

Edited December 10, 2017 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[Birdframe_Prime]

Honestly speaking, this debate has got to stop.

DE have made it abundantly clear that passive energy regen for Warframes is not going to happen. They have shifted everything to active energy regen.

Why don't we look at this simple fact and try to move forward and stop trying to convince them to go backwards? There are so many options for active energy regen in game, so many functions that trigger responses from the environment and frames and Operators.

There is absolutely no reason to give frames passive energy regen. None. The arguments for it all revolve around this idea that what we had with old Zenurik didn't break the game and allow builds and play styles that ignored the basic energy economy of the game.

And comments like this: 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

Not anywhere near enough. 42 seconds for your first Ability and 167 seconds for your ultimate.

Only highlight this, because Energy Siphon is not supposed to sustain you through the entire mission, it's supposed to augment things like Energy Orbs and give you options for when RNG fails.

Besides this, there is also the basic concept of Efficiency to consider. So many people with old Zenurik didn't understand that the ability to build for 250% Strength and over, to make amazingly high numbers appear on the screen, and have their 4/s regen cover their negative efficiency did not allow them to go through the game any better than a person that built for 170% Efficiency and only 150% Strength, cast their abilities twice or three times instead of once, and got the same effect, all the while never hungry for energy because their 4th ability only costs 30 instead of 150.

[(PSN)Croewe]

43 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Honestly speaking, this debate has got to stop.

 

I agree we need a passive regen and it'll stop.

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DE have made it abundantly clear that passive energy regen for Warframes is not going to happen. They have shifted everything to active energy regen.

Then what about energy siphon? How are energy orbs active and you don't comment on the rest of my thread only the passive regen... why? And enough talk finally got us universal vacuum for God sakes! So what they say didn't always line up with what they do.

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Why don't we look at this simple fact and try to move forward and stop trying to convince them to go backwards? There are so many options for active energy regen in game, so many functions that trigger responses from the environment and frames and Operators.

There is a single environmental trigger for energy and no energy should NOT be tied to frames and Loadouts. These skills should be able to shine without it. Nor is passive regen going backwards I have no idea where that comes from.

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There is absolutely no reason to give frames passive energy regen. None.

Did you bother to read the thread?

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The arguments for it all revolve around this idea that what we had with old Zenurik didn't break the game and allow builds and play styles that ignored the basic energy economy of the game.

They didn't ignore it seeing as there is no energy economy. An economy would have a stable source of energy with fluctuations throughout.

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And comments like this: 

Only highlight this, because Energy Siphon is not supposed to sustain you through the entire mission, it's supposed to augment things like Energy Orbs and give you options for when RNG fails.

There THAT'S THE POINT what if we don't want to rely on this other stuff when rng fails? 

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Besides this, there is also the basic concept of Efficiency to consider. So many people with old Zenurik didn't understand that the ability to build for 250% Strength and over, to make amazingly high numbers appear on the screen, and have their 4/s regen cover their negative efficiency did not allow them to go through the game any better than a person that built for 170% Efficiency and only 150% Strength, cast their abilities twice or three times instead of once, and got the same effect, all the while never hungry for energy because their 4th ability only costs 30 instead of 150.

So you think people are idiots for building for negative efficiency? On the contrary the energy regen passive allowed for soooo much more build variety.

Edited December 10, 2017 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[(XBOX)Sneak Attack 65]

2 hours ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Energy Siphon, taking damage w/ Rage equipped, Zenurik, a Trinity, a Harrow, energy pads, or energy orbs 'cause surely you don't need your powers to deal with a few enemies at the start of the mission to get rolling?

There's already a plethora of energy in the game, and if you find yourself running out it just mean's you're either terrible at energy management or messed up modding your warframe.

There's also Blight/Entropy effects, and Equilibrium when combined with abilities that force health orbs to spawn like Nekros' Desecrate, Trinity's Well of Life augment, Oberon's Reckoning, and Broken Scepter's drain effect.

 

[pavlo555]

6 минут назад, (Xbox One)Sneak Attack 65 сказал:

There's also Blight/Entropy effects, and Equilibrium when combined with abilities that force health orbs to spawn like Nekros' Desecrate, Trinity's Well of Life augment, Oberon's Reckoning, and Broken Scepter's drain effect.

 

Hydroid's augment is quite energy giving, too. Also, rageQT, or have abilities last enough long (Trinity, Volt, Banshee) to not have to recast them as often.

I know this whole argument is the matter of "git goodini", but it is a "git good" kinda thing. There are all options in the world to never run out of energy. Now everyone is being "upset" with the removal of the most lazy one. And passive energy regen is indeed lazy.

 

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

Have people forgotten about energy plates? 

Granted it would be nice to have energy regen. But 1 per second wouldn’t do a damn thing in the long run. With a low eff build you MIGHT be able to use your 4 once every 2 minutes. Awesome. It’d have to be on the level of Zenuriks energy regen. And then Zenurik would have to be buffed to compensate. 

Honestly I think Energy hungry frames should just have ways to refund and gain energy via their abilities. We already see this with frames like Saryn. We just need more like it.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

14 minutes ago, (Xbox One)BaconHunter111 said:

The kids need it because DE probably decided they'd rather not have the kids take energy from frames by absorbing the energy orbs, so they added regenerative energy.

Operators have regenerative energy because they their energy economy is completely different from frames. Orbs would not work properly for Operators as a regenerative mechanic. However, they can still eat energy orbs.

59 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

There is absolutely no reason to give frames passive energy regen. None. The arguments for it all revolve around this idea that what we had with old Zenurik didn't break the game and allow builds and play styles that ignored the basic energy economy of the game.

Ignoring the reductionist tone of your post...

There is a reason. But my counterargument: all of the arguments against passive regen are actually criticisms of the absurd volumes of CC players can lay down. When someone suggests reducing the CC, players complain that enemies deal too much damage. When someone suggests reducing reigning in enemy damage, someone complains enemies wouldn't be a threat. There are all these bizarre attachments players have to arbitrary mechanics, assuming that the way things are done now was internally decided to be the ideal implementation. Does that sound like DE?

WF's gameplay is a cobbled-together mess that sorta somehow works. Energy economy is dependent on a combination of active and passive regen and pickups, all conditional, in such high quantities that minor tweaks to any of these can break the game by starving or overfeuling because the baseline is 0. No joke, my record for number of enemies killed with no orb drop is 106. I can't exactly use Rage on Mag. This is the argument for passive regen. It is a universal baseline around which everything can be more easily rebalanced, so that every frame has a tightly controlled energy supply by design. No RNG, no specialized gear or classes. A plain, meager baseline of 1 energy/sec. If you think that's unreasonable, you should detail why you believe that and provide examples of potential harm, rather than just saying the opposition is without merit.

Also, Zenurik didn't break the game. It allowed for power-centric playstyles, and gave some frames a playstyle of any description (Mag, Rhino). Arcane Energize and Shadow Step broke the game.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Zenurik/hunter adrenaline/rage energy pizzas. Easy

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

You should be rewarded for skillful play, not doing a tedious activity every twenty to thirty seconds.

We should not be reliant on frames for energy.

Our Loadouts skills not be limited by energy. Rather they should expand on the stuff we have.

And they can't take energy from frames because they don't have enough.

Having energy for days so you can mash 4 != skillful play. The game provides plenty of energy as is - with a multitude of ways to get it: drops, zenurik, trin, harrow.. multiple ways to buff what you pickup: energize, zenurik, and emergency gear should you be terrible: energy pads.

 

 

[Vafthrudnir]

The kids aren't as good as frames, and if they get good they get nerfed as it has just happened.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Zenurik wasn't nerfed. Lightning dash costs energy, no biggy

[Vafthrudnir]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Zenurik wasn't nerfed. Lightning dash costs energy, no biggy

And that's a nerf? Now you just jump less if you have that node, if it was switched to E at lest we had an option not to burn energy and it'd be easier to aim.

Edited December 10, 2017 by giovanniluca

[Nazrethim]

You know why kids get good energy regen? because they can't reduce the cost of their abilities by 75%. Just saying.

[Vafthrudnir]

6 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

You know why kids get good energy regen? because they can't reduce the cost of their abilities by 75%. Just saying.

You don't get regen while consuming it, and the jump consumes energy already.

Edited December 10, 2017 by giovanniluca

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Itd be cool to do it the way infamous does it, or specifically for warframe, to just have it be something on the map you can search for, like the rubedo crystals...theres a part on the scanner where the grineer guy is saying theres warframe energy residue everywhere...so...lots of ideas...at the very least rework energy orbs and how they drop.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

37 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

And that's a nerf? Now you just jump less if you have that node, if it was switched to E at lest we had an option not to burn energy and it'd be easier to aim.

What got nerfed?

[Vafthrudnir]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

What got nerfed?

The addition of an energy cost on zenurik lightning dash is a nerf to the node.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Oh, well as long as they don't nerf energy regen... not a big deal imo.