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2 Suggestions for Endgame


Kimimoto
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Me and my friends currently don't see any Endgame in Warframe! Some may argue that Raids/Rivens/Kuva are Endgame, but these can be completed with minimal effort. An example would be that you can complete both Kuva Floods and Raids with an unformad rank 30 rhino/valkyr/inaros/zephyr/wukong/loki/ash/makeitstop.

Not to mention these missions award more power, which considering I'm completing them with unformad frames... what's the point? Wouldn't it be great if there were missions with scaling difficulty that could meet any players skill level or current progression. That would give a reason to get as geared as possible, so you could handle higher and higher difficulty. That would also reward you with currency or items to make yourself even more powerful, so you could hop back in and try to beat your high score while also gaining the means to progress yourself. 

Unless you're new to the game you could probably glean that I'm talking about Endless! A group of untapped scaling missions that SHOULD reward players based on how well they preform. A way to create endgame content for the casual, midcore, and hardcore player all in one fell swoop! Having an endgame endurance mission with incentive would give a ton more purpose to Formaing, getting Rivens, getting primed frames, playing with friends, and honestly playing the game...

Now, I'm not here to whine about Endgame I have a few suggestions that I think are fair and that the hardcore community would really like to see be implemented into the game!

  1. This isn't exactly a new idea, but Endless Kuva Missions. Not only having endless missions that give Kuva, BUT also having the amount of Kuva gained scale with how far you can go! Imagine the boosters from current Endless Fissures. Now imagine if there was an Endless Kuva Survival where every 5 minutes the amount of Kuva gained goes up by 5-10%. Just like getting a 25-50-75% drop chance booster from Endless Fissures, Endless Kuva would give a gradual increase to rewards ramping up alongside the difficulty. This would give incentive for players to stay in the missions, prepare by minmaxing all their gear, trying builds, getting new gear, and learning and improving their play!
  2. The second suggestion which I haven't seen yet, would be "Brilliant" Relics. "Brilliant" Relics would be a step up from Radiant Relics and would cost 400-500 traces to make. "Brilliant" Relics would get no increase in RNG and would just have the basic Intact loot table for that relic. If you used a "Brilliant" Relic at the start of an Endless Fissure then it would last until you extracted. Sound familiar? It's very much like pre-SotR endless, which a lot of players miss! This would also give the same incentive to minmax, forma, and trying to get better at the game.

In conclusion, for veterans like me and my friends the current Endgame in Warframe is null. There's no purpose to trying your hardest or gearing up, since the hardest content in the game with any sort of meaningful reward can be completed with almost nothing. It doesn't have to be this way... Such small changes and additions could provide a scaling, rewarding, and fun form of Endgame for ALL players! A reason to upgrade all your gear, a reason to farm focus, a reason to get arcanes, a reason to improve! I believe this is the largest hamstring to Warframe for old and new players, and I certainly hope this issue is on the Devs radar.

I'd love to hear what you think of my proposed ideas, or if you have any ideas of your own to create a rewarding form of Endless missions!

Stay lovely, Tenno!

Edited by Kimimoto
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I personaly want new raids and I want whem to be proper , LoR was fun at first but it lacks content and JV is just confusing puzle overload , looking at you final stage .

 

 

This , this looks so fun , why cant we have something like this ?

Edited by bad4youLT
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This , this looks so fun , why cant we have something like this ?

I believe that's what they're trying to do with the new Eidolons and I agree that it would be pretty stellar! Also, consider that Endless is already in the game and the amount of effort it would take to push it into Endgame is extremely minimal, it would require a fraction of what it takes to make an Eidolon! For such little dev time how could you not have Endless Endgame?

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You played yourself, WF will keep being stagnant and you will not get anything beyond lvl scaling. 

Difficulties and player progression must go together otherwise it's just a vicious cycle of powercreep. High MR players got those *air quotes* incentives along the way just to ask for more incentives. 

Some people really can't distinguish addiction from fun. Warframe is exactly the game that intoxicates people with progression/'get'aholic. 

Edited by Volinus7
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1 hour ago, Kimimoto said:

Zephyr, Hydroid, and Atlas are OP? 

Don't see those on your original post but eh, I digress.

 

Yep, if you play with them enough you'll see their kit can be up there in terms of cc and general usefulness akin to top tier dps frames.

Zephyr = turbulence + tornado build = tenor.gif

Hydroid = undertow + tentacle swarm pre much keeps hydroid safe while eh snatches booty.

Atlas'  standard opm build can even hard cc with ragdolling enemies for days with the right energy sustaining build.

 

Again, they may not be the meta op frames but they can be if played right. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edited by Tsardova
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I love the idea of endless kuva missions because I do like siphons and have nothing else to do. However I have such a quantity of it and nothing really to spend on at this point that it wouldn't really make a big difference. Even if I would, with the current riven roll system, it's just a frustrating and unpleasant experience.

Having endless missions as endgame experience in my opinion isn't the best idea. Endless missions after a certain level isn't skill based but patience based. I did 8 hour runs and I have to say the only skill requiered for it was not falling asleep on it. It's just a total cheese.

On the other hand we have the eidolons instead of proper raids wich is perfectly fine and can be entertaining, but they are completely disconnected from the rest of the game and there is not much point to fight them once you obtained the limited amount of stuff you need. It's not particularly difficult either for now.

There was a thread that was proposing to connect the two "endgame" system through obtaining resources from eidolons that ultimately would give you the possibility to lock stats on rivens per roll. I did really like the idea. Immagine stuff like even 8 man eidolon fight for an extremely rare resource that could lock a stat on your riven, consumed in the process.

I could immagine something like this way more endgamish instead of staying in the same endless mission for hours for no real gain. The main problem is right now that you are kitting out your stuff and you have nothing really challanging to use it on.

The post is here :

 

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57 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

I personaly want new raids and I want whem to be proper , LoR was fun at first but it lacks content and JV is just confusing puzle overload , looking at you final stage .

 

 

This , this looks so fun , why cant we have something like this ?

Looks like it would be about as annoying as LoR and have most people not playing it because most people don't use voice chat.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

agree with endless Kuva, but I'm not sure people want t go back to the old Void of doing a long-&#! run for a single part. I prefer the new system of getting rewards as you go.

I'd love it and I know my friends would too, I've seen plenty of people missing old endless void. The thing is "Brilliant"s would just be an option, it in no way takes away from the current system. Since you prefer the new system it wouldn't make any difference, but I'd love to have it as an option!

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4 hours ago, Kimimoto said:

I'd love to hear what you think of my proposed ideas, or if you have any ideas of your own to create a rewarding form of Endless missions!

Stay lovely, Tenno!

As a old-school player myself I think it's a bad idea, it's precisely the same thinking that brought us T4 Void towers "If it's harder then it'll be endgame" All that happened is that T4 because the default and gear scaled up to expect it. After that we got sortes, now you're suggesting an infinitly high wall to beat your head against, while it gifts you enough interesting resource to outstrip anyone not doing this infinite-hard content.

"Endgame" means nothing, all it is is more "game", often (in other games) with massively slowed progression to act as an infinite time sink.

The only really useful "Endgame" would be player-created-content, (that isn't PvP) which could, thus, keep up with player content demand.

Edited by SilentMobius
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8 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

As a old-school player myself I think it's a bad idea, it's precisely the same thinking that brought us T4 Void towers "If it's harder then it'll be endgame" All that happened is that T4 because the default and gear scaled up to expect it. After that we got sortes, now you're suggesting an infinitly high wall to beat your head against, while it gifts you enough interesting resource to outstrip anyone not doing this infinite-hard content.

"Endgame" means nothing, all it is is more "game", often (in other games) with massively slowed progression to act as an infinite time sink.

Old Void Endless was great it all rewarded you for playing well and being prepared, not just T4 keys. Yes, I'd ideally like an infinitely high wall for players to tackle, because that would work for EVERYONE. It would challenge the whole array of players skilled or new, and give them incentive to try harder or improve. Yes, it should give scaling rewards just like Endless Fissures do now, otherwise people will 20 and done it.

Also "outstrip", we're all on the same team here? Not to mention Kuva or Prime parts will hardly make you "outstrip" anyone, if anyone wants these things they most likely already have them. It would just allow skilled players to get rewarded more for their effort. They could roll Rivens more to get better rolls or get more prime parts for Ducats. These things already have a casual way to acquire them, which would probably still be more efficient than do an Endless.

"Endgame" means a challenge for every player regardless of skill or progression, and rewards to match your performance. The massively slowed progression is the RNG and roll cost of rivens. It's all the MR requirements on Primed Weapons, and the 20 nitain used to build some Frames.

For a lot of people the Void was great! That's why you see threads on Reddit asking for permanent T4 fissures, because people loved it. Having a fair way to get that rewarding challenge back is all I want, and it doesn't seem that hard to implement. 

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42 minutes ago, Kimimoto said:

Old Void Endless was great it all rewarded you for playing well and being prepared, not just T4 keys. Yes, I'd ideally like an infinitely high wall for players to tackle, because that would work for EVERYONE. It would challenge the whole array of players skilled or new, and give them incentive to try harder or improve. Yes, it should give scaling rewards just like Endless Fissures do now, otherwise people will 20 and done it.

Also "outstrip", we're all on the same team here? Not to mention Kuva or Prime parts will hardly make you "outstrip" anyone, if anyone wants these things they most likely already have them. It would just allow skilled players to get rewarded more for their effort. They could roll Rivens more to get better rolls or get more prime parts for Ducats. These things already have a casual way to acquire them, which would probably still be more efficient than do an Endless.

"Endgame" means a challenge for every player regardless of skill or progression, and rewards to match your performance. The massively slowed progression is the RNG and roll cost of rivens. It's all the MR requirements on Primed Weapons, and the 20 nitain used to build some Frames.

For a lot of people the Void was great! That's why you see threads on Reddit asking for permanent T4 fissures, because people loved it. Having a fair way to get that rewarding challenge back is all I want, and it doesn't seem that hard to implement. 

Not much I can say, I completely disagree and don't think you've thought it through at all.

I'm just glad that DE have no intent on making infinitely scaling rewards on endless missions (as you might have noticed), so you're just not going to get it, regardless.

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38 minutes ago, Kimimoto said:

For a lot of people the Void was great! That's why you see threads on Reddit asking for permanent T4 fissures, because people loved it. Having a fair way to get that rewarding challenge back is all I want, and it doesn't seem that hard to implement. 

I agreee that the void was great in it's time and I always remember those days fondly and I miss it greatly.

However I do not see it come back ever. Not because of the relic system or they couldn't put it back as a mission but because the game itself changed. We have too much powercreep. Once T4s started out easy than become challanging than if you wanted to go over the hour you started to cheese. Today it starts out easy and it will stay easy up until you will have to start to cheese because the enemies will one shot you if you don't but doing so it becomes easy again.

So I do think that we need something new as "endgame". Endless missions just wouldn't work anymore.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Not much I can say, I completely disagree and don't think you've thought it through at all.

I'm just glad that DE have no intent on making infinitely scaling rewards on endless missions (as you might have noticed), so you're just not going to get it, regardless.

Then what point is there to forma/minmax/try?! Why even have these systems?

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11 minutes ago, Nirrel said:

So I do think that we need something new as "endgame". Endless missions just wouldn't work anymore.

If players cheese should that punish players that don't? I almost never cheese, because I actually want to play the game and have fun. The current powercreep is not much better than what we had doing T4, it would be almost exactly the same and I don't see how powercreep is any reason not to have that form of Endless back. We had powercreep before, T3  was the old T4 until the Soma destroyed T3.

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1 minute ago, Kimimoto said:

If players cheese should that punish players that don't? I almost never cheese, because I actually want to play the game and have fun. The current powercreep is not much better than what we had doing T4, it would be almost exactly the same and I don't see how powercreep is any reason not to have that form of Endless back. We had powercreep before, T3  was the old T4 until the Soma destroyed T3.

And today there are many more weapons that would destroy T4s experience. That is my point, not the cheese. The fact is that as the game is "balanced" right now with the gear that we have we do not have "challanging" content anymore unless you are a noob. I personally do not find the sorties challanging in any way but if you continue to higher the level the only way to cope with it is massively CC the enemies. Where is the challange in that? I highly doubt that it would be the same experience that you remember from the old days.

Undoubtedly the game need "endgame" content where you get challanged with all your gear that you minmaxed out, I just don't think that bringing back endless would do it for those who have most of the stuff you can obtain in the game.

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