Let's talk about Sacrifice

[Justice_Ember]

So the Sacrifice quest is getting closer and closer, and despite there being an Umbra Megathread there's one thing I haven't see people talk about.

Who are we going to kill?

The Sacrifice is pretty self explanatory, someone is gonna die. The question is who, and as much as I'd like to kill one of the very few NPCs we have today I doubt we will have a choice.

I do hope to evaluate all options on this point, if a NPC is to die, which one and why?

Also, bonus question, will we use the helminth infirmary to kill/sacrifice whoever it is we end up killing?

Lastly, my own personal opinion, I'd kill Clem that's a death I would mourn, and I would hate that DE introduced a NPC to be killed during the same quest, there's no bond to suffer about. 

[Tachibana_Hibiki]

7 минут назад, zzzNitro сказал:

DE introduced a NPC to be killed during the same quest, there's no bond to suffer about. 

 

[Airwolfen]

Why exactly would someone need to die? Sure by the sounds of it there is a life in danger. But a sacrifice does not automatically mean any ones death.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Airwolfen

[Tachibana_Hibiki]

1 минуту назад, Airwolfen сказал:

Why exactly would someone need to die? Sure by the sounds of it there is a life in danger. But a sacrifice does not automatically mean any ones death.

With something as edgy as Umbra it likely does.

[PhotriusPyrelus]

1 minute ago, Airwolfen said:

Why exactly would someone need to die? Sure by the sounds of it there is a life in danger. But a sacrifice does not automatically mean any ones death.

Yeah, mean, I'm sure the slowing and eventually stopping EKG is just there for ambiance, totally not foreshadowing anything at all!

 

The only sacrifice that would really be impactful to me would be Lotus.  And it would be SO impactful, I suspect I'd stop playing (I actually quit Borderlands 2 for like a week after the climax, I was so mad, and the only reason I continued playing was for revenge[not sure I've ever hated a video game character quite as much as Jack; Gearbox did good]).  <3 Space Mom.

[Kaokasalis]

I think the trailer hinted more at the origin of the warframes rather than us having to make a sacraffice. In the original script for the TWW, a umbra warframe was to appear and Teshin described it as "A fury untamed by Tenno control. A rogue Warframe.".

Just my personal theory but i think the Umbras were the first warframes and that they required a person to make. The orokin might later have learned to build warframes without needing a person.

[Atheeas]

My guess is that we're going to give up a default warframe in order to obtain the Umbra version of it. But to what / whom and in what way - those are good questions.

8 минут назад, zzzNitro сказал:

Also, bonus question, will we use the helminth infirmary to kill/sacrifice whoever it is we end up killing?

That's unlikely. I'm sure there will be a special location meant for it.

[Kaotyke]

Just now, zzzNitro said:

Who are we going to kill?

What is with your people and "we shall kill something"?

If we go with the trailer, The Sacrifice ALREADY happened. All we will do is find out  WHAT it was.

[Vlada91]

I think its simple, you can see in that quest all about warframes and stalker control bu your father. He sacrfice his life for you so I thinking that's it. Memory of him is creating a special dark frame that they call him Umbra...

[(PSN)CrimsonAxure]

12 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

What is with your people and "we shall kill something"?

If we go with the trailer, The Sacrifice ALREADY happened. All we will do is find out  WHAT it was.

Sacrificing a weapon or Warframe perhaps. 

I guess i'll go into the quest with a MK-1 Braton and a Mag farmed off of the Sergeant am i right guys hehahehaeehaehaehaehaehaeh

Little disclamier Mag is nowhere near a bad frame, i only used Mag as an example because she's so easy to farm because fighting the Sergeant is like beating a sack of potatoes please don't kill me

[ChatNinja]

Sacrifice Clem so he can come back 3 days later and guide us on the path of enlightenment.

[BornWithTeeth]

Nothing can be certain, but I think it more likely that ‘sacrifice’ refers to something deeply effed up which had to happen to make Warframes possible.

 

 

However! I have a bad feeling. A very bad feeling, and it has to do what the direction in which DE’s writing has been going. See, right up to and including Second Dream, the Warframe project and the comatose drone pilot Tenno were always presented in lore and appearance as a dangerous, experimental military project, a cadre of assault stormtroops, assassins, bodyguards, and spies. Then, after Second Dream, it’s a bit weird, but the tone shifted. A combination of Warframe aesthetics* and quest writing means that for the past year or so, Warframes and Tenno have not been presented as ‘deeply unpleasant space ninjas’. They’ve been presented as space superheroes.

 

So...if we’d been given the Sacrifice teaser in, say, the spring of 2016, after the Second Dream, and told that we’re gonna find out what the Warframes are, I’d have absolutely guessed that the answer involved terrible things happening to people, that Dax soldiers got mutilated and infected and forcibly cyberised, or something equally dreadful, but also undeniably technological. What I mean by that, is that turning someone into a Warframe was at least a semi-understood process, requiring a lab, technicians, purestrain technocyte, and a lot of luck.

 

 

So, instead of that, given the way Warframe is being written at the moment, I am expecting that the big reveal is that the first generation of Warframes really are the parents from the Zariman** and that the way they got turned into Warframes was that they heroically accepted a spooky looking injection from Ballas and then space magic turned them into ninjas to save their childrens’ lives.

 

 

* About that...the design of Warframes has been getting more and more ornate, greebled, flanged, and skirted. These days, the baseline of a new Warframe is more heavily ornamented than the Primed version of an older ‘frame. Ash, Ember, Excalibur, all look like sleek killers wearing cybernetic armour. Titania looks like an action figure.

 

** “But I thought they all got killed and partially vapourised when the Tenno went mad? We have multiple lore sources outright telling us that the Tenno killed their parents and that barely any, if any at all, of the adults survived?”

    “Shut up, shut up, stop asking questions! The Devs might hear you!”

[Undirys]

My two cents here...

Umbra Warframes can be traded only if you "sacrifice" your "original" one (Excalibur being the first one to appear), but I'm crossing my fingers that you can find Ballas... He NEEDS to appear for these kind of things! >:3

[Kaotyke]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)PS_90210 said:

Sacrificing a weapon or Warframe perhaps. 

I guess i'll go into the quest with a MK-1 Braton and a Mag farmed off of the Sergeant am i right guys hehahehaeehaehaehaehaehaeh

Little disclamier Mag is nowhere near a bad frame, i only used Mag as an example because she's so easy to farm because fighting the Sergeant is like beating a sack of potatoes please don't kill me

Thank you for enforcing my point.

[Justice_Ember]

24 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

Why exactly would someone need to die? Sure by the sounds of it there is a life in danger. But a sacrifice does not automatically mean any ones death.

While we could sacrifice "something" instead of a life, if we are given the choice as in The Glast Gambit, I bet many will choose to kill someone

21 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

The only sacrifice that would really be impactful to me would be Lotus.  And it would be SO impactful, I suspect I'd stop playing (I actually quit Borderlands 2 for like a week after the climax, I was so mad, and the only reason I continued playing was for revenge[not sure I've ever hated a video game character quite as much as Jack; Gearbox did good]).  <3 Space Mom.

It's not the only one tho, I'd kill Maroo and feel bad about it, specially if we had to hunt her down A La Carmen San Diego

21 minutes ago, Hieracon said:

I think the trailer hinted more at the origin of the warframes rather than us having to make a sacraffice. In the original script for the TWW, a umbra warframe was to appear and Teshin described it as "A fury untamed by Tenno control. A rogue Warframe.".

Just my personal theory but i think the Umbras were the first warframes and that they required a person to make. The orokin might later have learned to build warframes without needing a person.

I also believe a person was needed to make the first Frames and those became Umbra, so the question becomes, will we tame a new Umbra, overwriting/taming its mind or make a new Umbra by sacrificing someone as ingredient

21 minutes ago, Atheeas said:

My guess is that we're going to give up a default warframe in order to obtain the Umbra version of it. But to what / whom and in what way - those are good questions.

That's unlikely. I'm sure there will be a special location meant for it.

I've thought about this as well, would we get the Umbra version of the sacrificed one or is it something like one size fits all?

17 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

What is with your people and "we shall kill something"?

If we go with the trailer, The Sacrifice ALREADY happened. All we will do is find out  WHAT it was.

There's no reason to not need to happen again tho, and the Tenno killing stuff is basically how the game works

7 minutes ago, (PS4)PS_90210 said:

Sacrificing a weapon or Warframe perhaps. 

I guess i'll go into the quest with a MK-1 Braton and a Mag farmed off of the Sergeant am i right guys hehahehaeehaehaehaehaehaeh

Little disclamier Mag is nowhere near a bad frame, i only used Mag as an example because she's so easy to farm because fighting the Sergeant is like beating a sack of potatoes please don't kill me

I would really feel bad about a "sacrifice anything you want" scenario. It would be underwhelming.

[Justice_Ember]

6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

** “But I thought they all got killed and partially vapourised when the Tenno went mad? We have multiple lore sources outright telling us that the Tenno killed their parents and that barely any, if any at all, of the adults survived?”

In the second dream there's a line for Madurai that goes something like "I had to kill them all", I'll have to check, but yeah Zariman parent would be twisted but low impact to me at least

[Kaotyke]

Just now, zzzNitro said:

There's no reason to not need to happen again tho, and the Tenno killing stuff is basically how the game works

You missed the point.

People are saying "We will sacrifice the Operator/Lotus/Warframe (and now CLEM)", not about the Tenno killing something that is unrelated, but "sacrificing" something of our inventory or a main character. Can you honestly say any of those will happen?

No.

[Justice_Ember]

1 minute ago, Kaotyke said:

You missed the point.

People are saying "We will sacrifice the Operator/Lotus/Warframe (and now CLEM)", not about the Tenno killing something that is unrelated, but "sacrificing" something of our inventory or a main character. Can you honestly say any of those will happen?

No.

Honestly, I think there's two ways to make it impactful AF, 1) Force the option on us, "your most used warframe shall become a sacrifice to save the origin system" or 2) Give us the option to kill someone as an offering to unlock/discover something

[DeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

Honestly, I think there's two ways to make it impactful AF, 1) Force the option on us, "your most used warframe shall become a sacrifice to save the origin system" or 2) Give us the option to kill someone as an offering to unlock/discover something

Lose the frame I love or kill someone I don't want to kill?

I'll go with option C and stop playing in that case.

[Kaotyke]

Just now, zzzNitro said:

Honestly, I think there's two ways to make it impactful AF, 1) Force the option on us, "your most used warframe shall become a sacrifice to save the origin system" or 2) Give us the option to kill someone as an offering to unlock/discover something

And it would bring outrage and nothing else, specially to Founders who have Excal Prime as their most used.

The problem with this kind of logic is that all NPCs have a gameplay mechanic attatched to them, might be Missions, Market, Rewards and them poof, gone. We will have to put a subistitute and nothing changes aside from increasing the game costs for another voice actor and model.

Nothing will be sacrificed, it already has. And people just dont want to let go of it.

[Justice_Ember]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Lose the frame I love or kill someone I don't want to kill?

I'll go with option C and stop playing in that case.

Well, going by the usual options there will be a [Sun], [Neutral], and [Moon], Sun being the benevolent one, Neutral the low impact, and Moon the more gruesome, so no need to be so dramatic.

[BornWithTeeth]

11 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

In the second dream there's a line for Madurai that goes something like "I had to kill them all", I'll have to check, but yeah Zariman parent would be twisted but low impact to me at least

Going for the ‘twist’ that it’s the parents would be cheap and weak. The lore already told us not only that they died, but that we killed them. So, pulling that now would not only contradict established story, it would completely undo one of the only strong, tragic character beats which the Tenno have.

 

Which is another thing, really: ever since the Second Dream, DE have been unwilling to paint the Tenno as doing or having done anything ‘Bad’. The thing with the parents, where child and adolescent space colonists killed the adult crew of the Zariman after they went insane, is the only thing left that doesn’t paint the Tenno as golden beautiful innocent space children.

 

In the run up to the Second Dream, you know what I thought was going to be a major narrative issue? I thought that the game was going to confront the Tenno with the fact that as they piece together their memories, they realise that the state of the Sol System, the fall of civilization, is their fault. They brought down the Orokin, and then instead of dragging all the splintering factions to a table and demanding peace, they vanished into cryosleep and let the system fall apart. I genuinely thought that the Tenno were going to have to deal with that, and either accept their responsibility or embrace callousness. That would have been interesting.

 

 

See, before anyone says ‘Oh, you just don’t like the Operators!’, I do. The part which I don’t like about the fact that we have child characters in game now is that DE haven’t handled it well. They’re written badly, and DE are less willing to directly confront the issue of the Tenno being morally compromised than they were before.

[Rentix]

I've gave it some thought a while back as well and the best guess that I could come up with is a frame sacrifice.

Basically trade in Excalibur Prime, plus some other new resources to get Excalibur Umbra.
And so on with other frames.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Rentix

[Justice_Ember]

2 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

The problem with this kind of logic is that all NPCs have a gameplay mechanic attatched to them, might be Missions, Market, Rewards and them poof, gone. We will have to put a subistitute and nothing changes aside from increasing the game costs for another voice actor and model.

Actually this is what drove me to make it a discussion, today killing any NPC means killing a part of the system, which leaves the option (in case something/someone were to be sacrificed) of introducing a new NPC only to be either killed, spared or something else. And that to me is just unoriginal.

[Justice_Ember]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

In the run up to the Second Dream, you know what I thought was going to be a major narrative issue? I thought that the game was going to confront the Tenno with the fact that as they piece together their memories, they realise that the state of the Sol System, the fall of civilization, is their fault. They brought down the Orokin, and then instead of dragging all the splintering factions to a table and demanding peace, they vanished into cryosleep and let the system fall apart. I genuinely thought that the Tenno were going to have to deal with that, and either accept their responsibility or embrace callousness. That would have been interesting.

See, before anyone says ‘Oh, you just don’t like the Operators!’, I do. The part which I don’t like about the fact that we have child characters in game now is that DE haven’t handled it well. They’re written badly, and DE are less willing to directly confront the issue of the Tenno being morally compromised than they were before.

So much this!