Let's talk about Sacrifice

[Atheeas]

14 минут назад, zzzNitro сказал:

I've thought about this as well, would we get the Umbra version of the sacrificed one or is it something like one size fits all?

I hope we'll get the Umbra version of the sacrificed warframe. However, we're barely going to get Umbra versions of all warframes in one update considering how long it takes to create a warframe model etc. But who knows...
There will probably be some restrictions: for example, you can't turn a Mag, a Loki or any other warframe into an Excalibur Umbra 'cause they are a basis for other Umbras. You have to bring in Excalibur only.

[Justice_Ember]

Just now, Atheeas said:

I hope we'll get the Umbra version of the sacrificed warframe. However, we're barely going to get Umbra versions of all warframes in one update considering how long it takes to create a warframe model etc. But who knows...
There will probably be some restrictions: for example, you can't turn a Mag, a Loki or any other warframe into an Excalibur Umbra 'cause they are a basis for other Umbras. You have to bring in Excalibur only.

Yeah, I can see that, problem is DE already said not all frames are getting Umbras and they wouldn't release them all at once, I suspect they might do 1-3 for the Quest and then one every 2-3 months a la prime. Maybe up to 10 frames to fit the frames from the origin system?

[Gerdaro]

Sacrifice the operator and become Umbra, or sacrifice the umbra to empower the operator.

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Gerdaro said:

Sacrifice the operator and become Umbra, or sacrifice the umbra to empower the operator.

Ha ha oh wow I would gut Edgy Boi in a heartbeat and add more sweet Void Demon goodness to my Operator

[DeMonkey]

16 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

Well, going by the usual options there will be a [Sun], [Neutral], and [Moon], Sun being the benevolent one, Neutral the low impact, and Moon the more gruesome, so no need to be so dramatic.

Pretty obvious I wasn't posting based on the usual options, I was posting based on the options you presented.

I mean, I quoted you and everything.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

Sacrifice can mean anything, not just death. For all we know it could be that someone Sacrifices their free will or humanity (or both) in order to become the Warframes. 

[Atheeas]

3 минуты назад, zzzNitro сказал:

Yeah, I can see that, problem is DE already said not all frames are getting Umbras and they wouldn't release them all at once, I suspect they might do 1-3 for the Quest and then one every 2-3 months a la prime. Maybe up to 10 frames to fit the frames from the origin system?

Yeah, I somehow forgot they mentioned it. 
Maybe. I wonder how DE are going to choose which warframes will get an Umbra version and which ones will not.

[Justice_Ember]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

Pretty obvious I wasn't posting based on the usual options, I was posting based on the options you presented.

I mean, I quoted you and everything.

Oh I know, I just figured that it was better to deflect than calling you something outside of the guidelines and all, you know, it's hard to argue with "I don't like your opinion, I'll leave if it comes to that" instead of "I don't like your opinion, this is what I want instead".

[Justice_Ember]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Sacrifice can mean anything, not just death. For all we know it could be that someone Sacrifices their free will or humanity (or both) in order to become the Warframes. 

Well, not ANYTHING but yeah, it could be a finger as much as it could be a planet I guess, again I like a gut punch on the stories I've invested in more than a quick tearjerker.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

3 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

Well, not ANYTHING but yeah, it could be a finger as much as it could be a planet I guess, again I like a gut punch on the stories I've invested in more than a quick tearjerker.

Not literally ANYTHING correct, but it's a pretty big basket to choose from. Like you say, it could go from something like sacrificing your next pack of smokes, to forever forsaking your soul in order to become a space ninja avatar for a Void child.

Out of curiosity, do you only count character deaths as "gut punchers" in stories?

Edited December 12, 2017 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[DeMonkey]

Just now, zzzNitro said:

Oh I know, I just figured that it was better to deflect than calling you something outside of the guidelines and all, you know, it's hard to argue with "I don't like your opinion, I'll leave if it comes to that" instead of "I don't like your opinion, this is what I want instead".

You'd insult me for disliking your proposed impactful options? Bit sad...

I don't know what I want beyond an enjoyable quest, I'm not going to theorise or over hype or any of that nonsense, I'll just wait for it.

What I do know however is that your proposed impactful decisions would cause me to leave, so I said as much. 

If you want to insult me for that, go right ahead.

[Justice_Ember]

1 minute ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Out of curiosity, do you only count character deaths as "gut punchers" in stories?

Not at all, a good reveal that was minimally foreshadowed always gets me, the thing as in everything is timing, the reveal of the operators was superb, the war within felt a little flat but it can work as a set up as long as the Sacrifice delivers that perfect movie/novel finale.

[CrazyCatLad]

I sacrifice my Teen Operator.

[Justice_Ember]

1 minute ago, Lanieu said:

I sacrifice my Teen Operator.

I can see a Binding of Isaac scenario if this was the option, biblical tho, I haven't played it yet to know if it's similar.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

4 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

Not at all, a good reveal that was minimally foreshadowed always gets me, the thing as in everything is timing, the reveal of the operators was superb, the war within felt a little flat but it can work as a set up as long as the Sacrifice delivers that perfect movie/novel finale.

Agreed. The Second Dream was a masterpiece in the fact that it was totally unexpected. I still remember watching a stream and the chat going insane as soon as it was revealed. Personally I don't really think they can reach that level of reveal again, but I am hoping the Sacrifice proves me wrong. We know what the Tenno are per say, but not what/who the Warframes are and I hope that explanation gives us a better time than TWW.

[Justice_Ember]

Sorry, I was writing a response and suddenly had a thought outside my "kill someone" box. There are a couple Sacrifices we already know, one being Margulis's and the other could be Ballas,

Spoiler

I mean Margulis's is pretty straight forward, lose sight to try and protect the children, then get killed/replaced by Natah

Spoiler

But Ballas's could have been working with Natah, as in Sacrifice everything for revenge, more reasons to develop more and more deadly frames.

 

[Lion]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Going for the ‘twist’ that it’s the parents would be cheap and weak. The lore already told us not only that they died, but that we killed them. So, pulling that now would not only contradict established story, it would completely undo one of the only strong, tragic character beats which the Tenno have.

DE could probably find a way to make it work. Vor was brought back from the void after all, if the Tenno's parents were killed in the void... it's very possible they're still in the void.

[BornWithTeeth]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Agreed. The Second Dream was a masterpiece in the fact that it was totally unexpected. I still remember watching a stream and the chat going insane as soon as it was revealed. Personally I don't really think they can reach that level of reveal again, but I am hoping the Sacrifice proves me wrong. We know what the Tenno are per say, but not what/who the Warframes are and I hope that explanation gives us a better time than TWW.

As noted, my money is on ‘Your parents actually survived the Zariman, surprise, you didn’t kill them, that’s fine! Also, they willingly took Space Magic to become ninjas for you.’

 

 

Which would be a piece of weaksauce hack writing that would actively devalue the plot writing which has gone before. So, expect DE to go through with it, basically.

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Valor said:

DE could probably find a way to make it work. Vor was brought back from the void after all, if the Tenno's parents were killed in the void... it's very possible they're still in the void.

It’s not just about the retcon (which it most certainly would be!) it’s about the fact that it would be retroactively ‘pardoning’ the Tenno for the one bad thing which DE are still willing to acknowledge that they have done.

 

Before Second Dream, the Tenno could be morally ambiguous, and like I noted, the lore was outright telling us that the fall of the Sol System was their fault, they killed the rulers but then didn’t stick around to help find peace. Since the Second Dream, it’s like the writing has been paralyzed by the fact that we now have a face for the Tenno, and it’s a young face. DE themselves cannot deal with having the Tenno as threatening and potentially even monstrous figures now, and are overcompensating by pushing towards a ‘shiny golden innocent saviour space children’ deal instead.

[Justice_Ember]

6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Which would be a piece of weaksauce hack writing that would actively devalue the plot writing which has gone before. So, expect DE to go through with it, basically.

I'm actually expecting them to do something with the sun and moon thing, and again, I want it to be about choices

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

DE themselves cannot deal with having the Tenno as threatening and potentially even monstrous figures now, and are overcompensating by pushing towards a ‘shiny golden innocent saviour space children’ deal instead.

Remember they brought a writer from somewhere to keep them in line with the Lore, and maybe they tried to build the operator as some sort of hero only to watch us fall to infamy? or at least mild infamy?

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, zzzNitro said:

I'm actually expecting them to do something with the sun and moon thing, and again, I want it to be about choices

Remember they brought a writer from somewhere to keep them in line with the Lore, and maybe they tried to build the operator as some sort of hero only to watch us fall to infamy? or at least mild infamy?

Look, absolutely nothing ever came of the Sun Moon Balance alignment system. Ever. In addition to that, they apparently brought a writer onboard, but if so, I truly did not notice an improvement in the writing. The Cetus NPC’s are well voiced, I guess.

[KingTeensie]

I say kill that Lotus lady.

[Justice_Ember]

4 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Look, absolutely nothing ever came of the Sun Moon Balance alignment system. Ever. In addition to that, they apparently brought a writer onboard, but if so, I truly did not notice an improvement in the writing. The Cetus NPC’s are well voiced, I guess.

On Devstream 100, Steve said they made it for something and that it was gonna be used. The writer cam for the comics mostly I believe, and those are pretty good. As for Cetus, yeah.

[KelsierSurvivor]

3 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

On Devstream 100, Steve said they made it for something and that it was gonna be used. The writer cam for the comics mostly I believe, and those are pretty good. As for Cetus, yeah.

Steve said that it was directly tied into The Man In the Wall.

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

On Devstream 100, Steve said they made it for something and that it was gonna be used. The writer cam for the comics mostly I believe, and those are pretty good. As for Cetus, yeah.

Steve says many things, and those things don’t all necessarily happen. Also, I would believe that the writer only came in for the comics, and had minimal contact with the writing for the game.