Let's talk about Sacrifice

[KelsierSurvivor]

7 minutes ago, dstrawberrygirl said:

So much win in there - many thanks for the full out-loud laugh mid-office.

Related note, the "Hey Kiddo" brat is unresolved at this time. She's been absent from my ship for months, then this week I've seen her three times and every time she scares the living daylights out of me. I hope that thread gets addressed as part of this - I'm not a fan of sinister surprises on my own damn ship.

Now if we had sentient Warframes on the ship - the thought of a rogue Loki climbing the walls, or a Gara looking unimpressed at the messy state of my orbiter... Valkyr curled up next to a Kavat... well, it would liven things up a bit.

I liked that Valkyr bit. Lol

[m101011]

its going to be the lotus. shes annoying and she had this coming . after we kill her the man in the wall who calls us kiddo will speak to us in missions but not be very helpful if your night attuned but if you're pure day and only pure day attuned then its ordis and the lotus can nag you on your ship more

[DeMonkey]

8 minutes ago, dstrawberrygirl said:

Valkyr curled up next to a Kavat... well, it would liven things up a bit.

... Can we... can we put a collar and leash on her?

That would certainly liven things up for me... 

[MagPrime]

2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

As noted, my money is on ‘Your parents actually survived the Zariman, surprise, you didn’t kill them, that’s fine! Also, they willingly took Space Magic to become ninjas for you.’

 

 

Which would be a piece of weaksauce hack writing that would actively devalue the plot writing which has gone before. So, expect DE to go through with it, basically.

Agreed.

But.  What if it wasn't "hey, I'm alive! sorta." and it was "your parents were saturated with Void energy so we used their corpses to make the Warframes"?

Overall, I'd like to be given the choice of sacrificing the Operator to get an Umbra.  Not likely to happen, considering it kinda kills Focus and Eidolon hunting, but do the Operators voice lines annoy me.

[BornWithTeeth]

3 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Agreed.

But.  What if it wasn't "hey, I'm alive! sorta." and it was "your parents were saturated with Void energy so we used their corpses to make the Warframes"?

Overall, I'd like to be given the choice of sacrificing the Operator to get an Umbra.  Not likely to happen, considering it kinda kills Focus and Eidolon hunting, but do the Operators voice lines annoy me.

I’d be fine with you having the option to do that, so long as I have the option to not do so.

 

Also, I am remarkably certain that even if you swapped your Operator for an Umbra, DE would find a way to inflict badly written Tenno quips on you either way.

Edited December 12, 2017 by BornWithTeeth

[MagPrime]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

I’d be fine with you have the option to do that, so long as I have the option to not do so.

 

Also, I am remarkably certain that even if you swapped your Operator for an Umbra, DE would find a way to inflict badly written Tenno quips on you either way.

Blarg.

I hear that voice in my dreams.  I have to stab it with a Q-tip when I get out of bed.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I’d be fine with you having the option to do that, so long as I have the option to not do so.

 

Also, I am remarkably certain that even if you swapped your Operator for an Umbra, DE would find a way to inflict badly written Tenno quips on you either way.

i like my operator talking .. 

[Horaciozhao]

4 hours ago, zzzNitro said:

So the Sacrifice quest is getting closer and closer, and despite there being an Umbra Megathread there's one thing I haven't see people talk about.

Who are we going to kill?

The Sacrifice is pretty self explanatory, someone is gonna die. The question is who, and as much as I'd like to kill one of the very few NPCs we have today I doubt we will have a choice.

I do hope to evaluate all options on this point, if a NPC is to die, which one and why?

Also, bonus question, will we use the helminth infirmary to kill/sacrifice whoever it is we end up killing?

Lastly, my own personal opinion, I'd kill Clem that's a death I would mourn, and I would hate that DE introduced a NPC to be killed during the same quest, there's no bond to suffer about. 

I think it's probably gonna tell the story of how Umbra came to be in the first place, which probably means a history happened before so no one present in game will die.

[Kaotyke]

9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

i like my operator talking .. 

There is a difference between liking something to talk and what is being said.

I dont mind the voices, but even if some of those lines were spoken by Morgan Freeman, I would cringe a bit.

[Justice_Ember]

I think it's safe to assume the operator won't die, at most the nature of the void could change giving some side effects, but dying? nope.

[Hypernaut1]

4 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Nothing can be certain, but I think it more likely that ‘sacrifice’ refers to something deeply effed up which had to happen to make Warframes possible.

 

 

However! I have a bad feeling. A very bad feeling, and it has to do what the direction in which DE’s writing has been going. See, right up to and including Second Dream, the Warframe project and the comatose drone pilot Tenno were always presented in lore and appearance as a dangerous, experimental military project, a cadre of assault stormtroops, assassins, bodyguards, and spies. Then, after Second Dream, it’s a bit weird, but the tone shifted. A combination of Warframe aesthetics* and quest writing means that for the past year or so, Warframes and Tenno have not been presented as ‘deeply unpleasant space ninjas’. They’ve been presented as space superheroes.

 

So...if we’d been given the Sacrifice teaser in, say, the spring of 2016, after the Second Dream, and told that we’re gonna find out what the Warframes are, I’d have absolutely guessed that the answer involved terrible things happening to people, that Dax soldiers got mutilated and infected and forcibly cyberised, or something equally dreadful, but also undeniably technological. What I mean by that, is that turning someone into a Warframe was at least a semi-understood process, requiring a lab, technicians, purestrain technocyte, and a lot of luck.

 

 

So, instead of that, given the way Warframe is being written at the moment, I am expecting that the big reveal is that the first generation of Warframes really are the parents from the Zariman** and that the way they got turned into Warframes was that they heroically accepted a spooky looking injection from Ballas and then space magic turned them into ninjas to save their childrens’ lives.

 

 

* About that...the design of Warframes has been getting more and more ornate, greebled, flanged, and skirted. These days, the baseline of a new Warframe is more heavily ornamented than the Primed version of an older ‘frame. Ash, Ember, Excalibur, all look like sleek killers wearing cybernetic armour. Titania looks like an action figure.

 

** “But I thought they all got killed and partially vapourised when the Tenno went mad? We have multiple lore sources outright telling us that the Tenno killed their parents and that barely any, if any at all, of the adults survived?”

    “Shut up, shut up, stop asking questions! The Devs might hear you!”

I totally agree with you about the change in warframe aesthetic and feel. This game is far away from the mysterious silent space ninja assassin kneeling in front of a virtual map of the solar system plotting it's next mission. 

The designs for warframes are becoming too symmetrical and ornate. Operators are too plucky. 

I think with this new tone, I don't expect anything too too dark. 

I personally think it'll be about the humans that Warframe personalities are based on. They are clearly based on more than just a suit. 

[MagPrime]

21 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

There is a difference between liking something to talk and what is being said.

I dont mind the voices, but even if some of those lines were spoken by Morgan Freeman, I would cringe a bit.

"We should avoid detection, that might make this easier"

IT'S A SURVIVAL

*hacks console*

"I will consider what I have learned from this encounter"

wat

*gets knocked on butt by lasers*

"My Warframe is strong"

All right, listen here you little sht...

[Beartornado]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I totally agree with you about the change in warframe aesthetic and feel. This game is far away from the mysterious silent space ninja assassin kneeling in front of a virtual map of the solar system plotting it's next mission. 

The designs for warframes are becoming too symmetrical and ornate. Operators are too plucky. 

I think with this new tone, I don't expect anything too too dark. 

I personally think it'll be about the humans that Warframe personalities are based on. They are clearly based on more than just a suit. 

Maybe with any luck The Sacrifice will be the quest that advances our Operator's personality and tone while elaborating on the nature of warframes. Everything else so far has been about the growth and advancement of our Operator physically, recovering their powers and memories. I see no reason why we can't reach a point where they leave their naive baseline personality and instead conform to the Alignment we push them towards. Can't think of a better use of the alignment system than to allow us to shape our Operator's personality among other decisions down the line.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Beartornado

[BornWithTeeth]

8 minutes ago, Beartornado said:

Maybe with any luck The Sacrifice will be the quest that advances our Operator's personality and tone while elaborating on the nature of warframes. Everything else so far has been about the growth and advancement of our Operator physically, recovering their powers and memories. I see no reason why we can't reach a point where they leave their naive baseline personality and instead conform to the Alignment we push them towards. Can't think of a better use of the alignment system than to allow us to shape our Operator's personality among other decisions down the line.

That would be AMAZEBALLS!!!!!!!!

[phoenix1992]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

That would be AMAZEBALLS!!!!!!!!

I smell optimistic view.
 

[(PSN)CannaWhoopazz13]

"Tenno!  Are you ready for a SACRIFICE??!!"

[KelsierSurvivor]

2 hours ago, MagPrime said:

"We should avoid detection, that might make this easier"

IT'S A SURVIVAL

*hacks console*

"I will consider what I have learned from this encounter"

wat

*gets knocked on butt by lasers*

"My Warframe is strong"

All right, listen here you little sht...

That is every mission I ever play. XD

2 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

There is a difference between liking something to talk and what is being said.

I dont mind the voices, but even if some of those lines were spoken by Morgan Freeman, I would cringe a bit.

Sure, if Morgan Freeman were to do it, but what if it were to be the Morgan Freeman of Warframe? 

"My Warframe is the hand, and I am the will." Said in Tyl Regor voice

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

That is every mission I ever play. XD

Sure, if Morgan Freeman were to do it, but what if it were to be the Morgan Freeman of Warframe? 

"My Warframe is the hand, and I am the will." Said in Tyl Regor voice

I would be all over that.

For like, a week.

[(PSN)CannaWhoopazz13]

We still haven't fully fleshed out exactly WHY we obeyed Katah/Lotus when she told us to kill the Orokin leaders.  It could easily be about that too.

[BornWithTeeth]

There are actually some half decent lines in there, beside the stinkers.

Ok, so, chaps! If DE asked you to pick out some of the existing Operator dialogue to highlight as the best/least bad, what lines would you point to and say "Yeah, ok, if you must, maybe more in this direction?"

 

Please don't just respond by yelling "BLAGH, NO, NOPE, ALL BAD, NO FEEDBACK, BURN IT ALL DOWN", because that's not actually the slightest bit helpful.

 

Here are my noms for 'Examples of actually not completely terrible Operator lines':

"My Warframe is the hand, and I am the will."

"Alright, let's get to work."

"The Grineer prey on the weak, but we prey on the Grineer."

"Corpus technology won't be enough to stop us."

"We need to purge this place, as we did in the old days."

"You are the mission. I will not falter."

 

Notice, I have a tendency to preferring lines which are calm, which suggest that the Tenno knows what they're doing.

Edited December 12, 2017 by BornWithTeeth

[KelsierSurvivor]

12 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

There are actually some half decent lines in there, beside the stinkers.

Ok, so, chaps! If DE asked you to pick out some of the existing Operator dialogue to highlight as the best/least bad, what lines would you point to and say "Yeah, ok, if you must, maybe more in this direction?"

 

Please don't just respond by yelling "BLAGH, NO, NOPE, ALL BAD, NO FEEDBACK, BURN IT ALL DOWN", because that's not actually the slightest bit helpful.

 

Here are my noms for 'Examples of actually not completely terrible Operator lines':

"My Warframe is the hand, and I am the will."

"Alright, let's get to work."

"The Grineer prey on the weak, but we prey on the Grineer."

"Corpus technology won't be enough to stop us."

"We need to purge this place, as we did in the old days."

"You are the mission. I will not falter."

 

Notice, I have a tendency to preferring lines which are calm, which suggest that the Tenno knows what they're doing.

"Keep talking, we're still trying to figure out how dumb you are." This one just makes me laugh.

[(PSN)Thealteregoroman]

8 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

What is with your people and "we shall kill something"?

If we go with the trailer, The Sacrifice ALREADY happened. All we will do is find out  WHAT it was.

like when people saw @devsteve puddle of water hint and didn't even realize it was AN OPEN WORLD EXPANSION LMFAO.

[(PSN)Thealteregoroman]

8 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Lose the frame I love or kill someone I don't want to kill?

I'll go with option C and stop playing in that case.

lol............

 

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

I think no one is talking about who we’re going to kill because it already happened. Ballas’ dialogues hints to someone sacrificing themselves. Since the quest is about the warframes, they most likely sacrificed themselves for the betterment of the warframe project. 

[Justice_Ember]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Thealteregoroman said:

like when people saw @devsteve puddle of water hint and didn't even realize it was AN OPEN WORLD EXPANSION LMFAO.

If we go by patterns, the Second Dream was literally waking up to connect to the somatic link again aka a second dream, the war within was again literally an internal struggle, so for Thebes sacrifice something shall be lost, I’d prefer a life but it reality it can’t be anything 

31 minutes ago, (Xbox One)OTF SERENiTY said:

I think no one is talking about who we’re going to kill because it already happened. Ballas’ dialogues hints to someone sacrificing themselves. Since the quest is about the warframes, they most likely sacrificed themselves for the betterment of the warframe project. 

True, my best guess so far is thy we’ll need to reproduce the same tho

@BornWithTeeth I sometimes find it’s silly for the operator to basically talk to himself/herself. But if it must be reduced I would prefer something along the lines of “let’s do this”. Also maybe specific triggers  would be better than random nonsense