Mirage Prime and Mirage

[MageSkeleton]

I for one thought for definite there would had been a post somewhere on the warframe forums on this topic EVEN with being the first day of release. 

Does building Mirage Prime require you to use Mirage as a crafting component? no.

Are you required to have done the quest which you get upon completing the junction that also gives you the quest "The War Within"? no.

Is there an MR requirement to at least reflect how late game your intended to get regular Mirage? Edited: Yes, MR 8.

Is the quest even worth doing? Considering warframes give the most MR Affinity upon reaching 30 yes.

What does this mean for the other quest related frames? Questionmark

Does this mean it's bad on DE's part? no.

 

Thank you for reading my post here, this is not meant to be an angry rant type post. I really hope my little expression of how i dislike DE's decision for doing this with Mirage Prime because she is the first, and not the last and i do not blame DE for aiming to make all frames have a prime variant. However, if they're really intending to keep this promise, where's our Excalibur Prime? Well he's locked behind DE's seemingly fragile barrier keeping him ONLY for founders who made that purchase during that window of time period. However, i also would like to point out these are 2 completely different things. Excalibur Prime exists, even though only founders (who bought the pack) have him. We are now getting Mirage Prime. So DE is keeping their promise, but this prime frame is different. DE just devalued actually doing the quest. So now once players do get to the quest "Hidden Messages" you don't think "OH WOW i can get this now" instead players will have a different perspective.

DE could had done other things to maybe make the regular mirage still relevant, but seems they don't care. Enjoy your Mirage Prime. You'll get her prime form far earlier than the regular and that's alot of work to just get some more MR affinity.

 

Thanks to all of you in the comments who pointed that one error out, sorry about that. I'm one of those guys who literally only knew of Hydroid Prime requiring MR 8, and i had recently found out that DE also has MR 8 requirement for Banshee Prime. Now if it was MR 11 or 12 my entire argument would change. But most players get to that junction being MR 6-10+. And it's not like the MR 8 test is all that special either.

Edited December 15, 2017 by MageSkeleton

[Carnage2K4]

[Clem2-TheClemening]

I think the crafting requirements should have used orokin ciphers. They have no other use than the mirage quest.

[GinKenshin]

Here’s some pros and cons to this situation: 

 

pros of doing the quest to get mirage: 

 

1- ppl get to experience the quest and lore 

2- MR (sadly) 

3- it’s basically a free Warframe 

 

cons not doing the quest to get mirage/prime: 

1- you need to grind for the prime 

2- if not, you need to pay for it, wether it’s money or trading plat 

 I’d say the pros outweigh the cons, plus this is a very specific situation you’re talking about. About newbies buying the PA, playing with mirage p then doing the quest and feeling unempressed or unrewarded (which as I said, they are rewarded). Or just about random newbies after this PA is over who got a random mirage p part and traded for the rest, got lucky and built her.....etc 

 

doing the quest is still reward, finding out info about a frame you’ve been using/had is as good if not better than an introduction to a new Warframe. Players might go “oh WOW, so that’s the story of the frame I had all this time” 

[Birdframe_Prime]

11 hours ago, MageSkeleton said:

Thank you for reading my post here, this is not meant to be an angry rant type post. I really hope my little expression of how i dislike DE's decision for doing this with Mirage Prime because she is the first, and not the last and i do not blame DE for aiming to make all frames have a prime variant. However, if they're really intending to keep this promise, where's our Excalibur Prime? Well he's locked behind DE's seemingly fragile barrier keeping him ONLY for founders who made that purchase during that window of time period. However, i also would like to point out these are 2 completely different things. Excalibur Prime exists, even though only founders (who bought the pack) have him. We are now getting Mirage Prime. So DE is keeping their promise, but this prime frame is different. DE just devalued actually doing the quest. So now once players do get to the quest "Hidden Messages" you don't think "OH WOW i can get this now" instead players will have a different perspective.

While I agree in a few principles, there's a few comments to consider here.

Excalibur Prime's 'founders only' promise doesn't appear to be a fragile barrier, considering we're 5 years into that promise and still going, but that's kind of nit-picky.

I, personally, would be completely content if Mirage Prime was simply Mastery locked. You can access Stolen Dreams at pretty much MR 5 (the requirements for the Junction is to craft a weapon requiring that rank or higher) which is the same rank you can access The War Within.

If Mirage was locked to MR 12 or 13 to craft? Then there would be no reason to grind up all that MR by weapons, other frames, anything, before the point that you could access the Quest. Why grind for MR 13 before you've unlocked the best places to grind that MR? It wouldn't really be faster, or convenient.

And that's all you need. Make it less convenient to go farm, grind for MR, then craft Mirage Prime than it is to play the game itself and get regular Mirage through the Quest.

[Eirshy]

I'd actually like the idea of using Orokin Ciphers in place of the (inevitable) Orokin Cells on the put-it-all-together BP. Just a random mat related to the quest. Titania Prime (when we eventually get there) could use one of the Apothics, for example.

 

Disclaimer, I actually bought PA this round. Of course, that's because Mirage is one of my most favorite frames, and was the first frame to really pull me away from Banshee (whom I played almost exclusively after getting her back in u8).

[Foefaller]

Mirage is unique in all the quest frames in that she is both one of the frames where you get all of her part BPs by the end of the quest (you even build them all to finish the quest) AND she's the only frame that has that sort of quest that requires unlocking one of the last two junctions to do it. Only other one that takes nearly as long is Titania, and in theory you can get her as soon as you unlock Neptune, since her quest requires MR 7 and The Second Dream.

Pretty sure the rarity of her parts and the types of relics you need is a reflection about how she's basically handed to you for doing the quest, no grind beyond the Derlict rooms to start the quest required. I'd wouldn't be surprised if Limbo and Inaros (who have similar "all the parts by the time you're done" quests) will be just as easy to get, though at least in their cases, you're getting the quests before your really able to crack Neo relics. Titania too, but IMO she will need at least one or two parts in Axi relics if you still want people doing her quest in the ~2 years her Prime will be available.

Should DE have made another of her parts rare, require MR if you didn't get her via PA, ciphers to build, or at least put one of them on an Axi relic so that it wouldn't be easily farmable until you're basically a couple nodes away from unlocking Hidden Messages? Probably. But I don't think this is going to be as much of an issue going on, as long as DE remembers that Chroma requires farming Kela in Sedna for the Saryn systems, and Mesa has two layers of grinding to get her parts, and noone ever wants to farm Atlas. Ever... And should make their parts a bit harder to farm in light of that.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Foefaller

[nickelshark]

I'm sorry but I don't see the connection between Mirage Prime and Excalibur Prime at all. Also, how does Mirage Prime devalue the quest? It's still a fairly early quest and players are more than likely to complete it and build Mirage before they obtain her prime.

[RistN]

Did Mirage abilities get some rework before prime release as Oberon, Hydroid and Nekros did? Actually no.

Sleight of Hand did but this ability is in the same place as it was before and Mirage remains the warframe with only 2 useful abilities.

[Fallen_Echo]

5 minutes ago, RistN said:

Did Mirage abilities get some rework before prime release as Oberon, Hydroid and Nekros did? Actually no.

Sleight of Hand did but this ability is in the same place as it was before and Mirage remains the warframe with only 2 useful abilities.

The blind bomb effect is certanly much better than what we had before.

[Birdframe_Prime]

16 minutes ago, RistN said:

Did Mirage abilities get some rework before prime release as Oberon, Hydroid and Nekros did? Actually no.

Was Mirage considered to be in the five lowest picked and 'worst' frames in the game? Also no.

Do all of Mirage's abilities function exactly as intended due to extensive updates of their functions since her release? Well, all except Sleight of Hand, which got that necessary update. (I'd also like to know which of her three abilities you'd class as the other non-useful one, since her 4 is functionally brilliant, her 1 is incredibly useful and her 3's only complaint is not even related to the frame, but how DE handles lighting in the game, so...)

Basically, Hydroid and Oberon got their reworks because they weren't in a good place. Lots of frames since Primes were invented did not get reworks before their Primes came out, not Frost, Rhino, Banshee, Ember, Trinity, Nova, Valkyr, and, in fact, the only two Primes to actually get full reworks to their abilities before their Prime releases, in the history of the game, are Oberon and Hydroid.

I'm not sure why your take-away from the reworks to those two was 'every frame gets a rework for their Prime now', because it's just not the case.

[RistN]

42 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The blind bomb effect is certanly much better than what we had before.

I'm not quite sure I understand.It got nerfed.It was op and it had it coming but not sure you can say it is better now.

25 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

I'm not sure why your take-away from the reworks to those two was 'every frame gets a rework for their Prime now', because it's just not the case.

It was not two but last 4 exept Banshee who only recived some visual tweaks as I remember.It was just my expectations that Mirage would be treated the same as Nekros,Hydroid and Oberon.Mirage is only used for hitting 1 and 3,nothing more.

29 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Was Mirage considered to be in the five lowest picked and 'worst' frames in the game? Also no.

No but we did have a situation with Synoid Simulor and the time when her ult was op and Blind Mirage was standard cc in raids and in some other missions like MD.In all cases she was used to cheese missions and largest part of that was nerfed,as it should.

Situation for her now is not the same as before although Mirage is still very good but her 2 and 4 could be more useful.I would only like trickster had more than just 2 useful tricks up her sleeve.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, RistN said:

I'm not quite sure I understand.It got nerfed.It was op and it had it coming but not sure you can say it is better now.

Im not talking about her 4th, im taking about her second skill what now places down crystals what blow up and blind enemies if you placed them in the light.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, RistN said:

It was not two but last 4 exept Banshee who only recived some visual tweaks as I remember.It was just my expectations that Mirage would be treated the same as Nekros,Hydroid and Oberon.Mirage is only used for hitting 1 and 3,nothing more.

For reference, in order from most recent to furthest back: Mirage, update to single ability, Hydroid, full rework across entire kit, Oberon, full rework across entire kit, Banshee, no change, Valkyr, no change, Nekros, updated 2 abilities, Vauban, single ability updated, Saryn, no change (update done a little before Trinity's release), Trinity, no change, Ash, no change. All prior Primes released with no updates to abilities beyond that.

Out of 19 Prime warframes released to date, the number to receive any kind of update between the previous Prime and their own release is 5, and of those only two received updates to their entire ability set.

Anyway, that's just my pickiness speaking there, 14 out of 19  frames not changed for Prime is kind of the thing here, not the 2 exceptions that were.

So the one point being that, even toned down after the changes she received in the past, she is still a B+ to A tier warframe. She doesn't need a rework, people just want one. Oberon was D+ tier and Hydroid was nothing except Pilfering Swarm farming, that's why they got full reworks. Nekros, Vauban and Mirage only needed changes because the original design of those abilities was not functioning the way DE wanted it to for the frames, leaving either spam of just one function, or total neglect of others.

Say what you like on the abilities too, the other point being that if this Sleight of Hand is the only change DE made to Mirage, then it means they either can't, or don't feel the need to fix anything else about her.

[Kainosh]

Don't forget that you can buy it only for a set period of time.  After that you farm.   And im pretty sure she will Require higher MR than normal Mirage.

So its like an event now. A lil moneymaking event that allows some people to get a frame they are not supposed to get yet.  Seems totally ok to me.

 

 

[TKDancer]

19 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

snip

they may not ~feel~ like she needs more changes but she does

 

SoH is still BLEH except for the blind on the darkness jewel, which only happens in the dark, and the game's whole definition of light and dark is incredible.. faulty at best, and besides the jewel, its base effect is terrible

 

which ties in with eclipse and how when we want to sacrifice damage output to stay alive and not be killed by 1-3 stray bullets u need the shadow buff, which is hard enough to find by itself, but it also encourages us to camp that one tiny spot that the game considers dark

 

mirage doesnt need a full rework, far from that, but she does need changes to SoH and Eclipse so that SoH feels more worthwhile and useful, and eclipse more reliable

 

and also i wouldnt say hydroid got a full rework to his kit, his kit was just updated, hell, his 1 just got the "charge for longer barrage" thing

[DeliciousDoob69]

@Clem2-TheClemening I upvoted your post, that's a fantastic idea, it's probably to late to implement it but still you're right on the money. Hopefully DE will notice that and in future prime quest frames require them to use their quest line materials. Wow just gonna say it again, but that's a great idea, such a good way to gate that content. 

I noticed  a few people are talking about Mirage prime tweaks she could most certainly use a little attention. If anyone has the time and loves Mirage I'd very much appreciate you taking a look at my post and leaving a comment if you have the time. Thank you. 

 

[MageSkeleton]

On 12/12/2017 at 8:09 PM, Clem2-TheClemening said:

I think the crafting requirements should have used orokin ciphers. They have no other use than the mirage quest.

Personally DE should make each part require 10 Orokin Ciphers. It would be a really nice nod to the regular variant.

[RistN]

One more thing...If Akzani is Mirages signature weapon why didn't it get primed? :)

[(PSN)StarStruckNebula]

On 12/13/2017 at 6:01 AM, Thaylien said:

While I agree in a few principles, there's a few comments to consider here.

Excalibur Prime's 'founders only' promise doesn't appear to be a fragile barrier, considering we're 5 years into that promise and still going, but that's kind of nit-picky.

I, personally, would be completely content if Mirage Prime was simply Mastery locked. You can access Stolen Dreams at pretty much MR 5 (the requirements for the Junction is to craft a weapon requiring that rank or higher) which is the same rank you can access The War Within.

If Mirage was locked to MR 12 or 13 to craft? Then there would be no reason to grind up all that MR by weapons, other frames, anything, before the point that you could access the Quest. Why grind for MR 13 before you've unlocked the best places to grind that MR? It wouldn't really be faster, or convenient.

And that's all you need. Make it less convenient to go farm, grind for MR, then craft Mirage Prime than it is to play the game itself and get regular Mirage through the Quest.

Personally I got to pluto with excalibur then got frost prime and finished the war withing at mr 5 Im still only mr 6 as of now but thats off topic. Maybe there should be a requirement to have completed hidden messages (mirage quest) and then you have to use the orokin ciphers to craft mirage prime. Anyone agree with me? (Sry for the necropost I just couldnt help myself)

[TheUnknownD]

I agree with you.

When you get a frame, for example, nidus bp in a quest then build it, A few years pass and there's a prime version, You require to farm the parts for it and the last part you need is a fully build nidus so when you build nidus prime and you redeem it from your foundry your nidus will turn into nidus prime, Would be awesome if it'll still have the Orokin reactor attached to it because what this does it making a normal nidus into a prime.

 

DE Should only make quest frames to do this. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by TheUnknownM

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)StarStruckNebula said:

Maybe there should be a requirement to have completed hidden messages (mirage quest) and then you have to use the orokin ciphers to craft mirage prime.

I agree, actually, a completed quest at minimum, before you get the Prime, and maybe something like Ciphers just to hammer that home.