Anyone feel mirage could use some tweaks?

[Trickst3rGawd]

This is a copy paste but I basically agree with everything the O P is saying and I'm pretty sure other people feel the same way,

"So I’m writing this post as mirage is now in the limelight, and is a frame I really really enjoy, but feel has some underlying issues that could be very easily resolved to really make her a top tier frame.

I’ll start with my issues

Her 1, the illusions are great, and worth her syndicate mod over a good DPS increase that rewards you actively killing, but due to how the illusions fire perpendicular to your crosshair, and not at it, many many weapons are irrelevant with them.

Weapons such as Arca plasmor, lenz, Zarr are all great picks as the AOE explosions all hit the same target, but pick up a braton/soma/Tigris prime? The illusions shots will fly right past your target, this isn’t horrible in normal missions as often there will be groups of enemies, so normally some of those illusions bullets will hit a target, but against bosses such as lephantis, Vay Hek or lech then those shots do absolutely nothing, in high level missions out of all the targets you will be shooting or your often trying to target specific enemies, such as a nox or leech eximus, which again this ability doesn’t help with.

Her second ability, while the recent changes have improved it, I feel is still not great due to Warframe being a fast paced moving game, but it’s fine for what it does.

Now, eclipse is an ability that is great in theory, but doesn’t work out great in practise, mirage is not a tanky frame even remotely, her illusions can draw some enemy fire, but AOE attacks such as bombards will still kill you in one hit very easily, eclipse punishes movement and limits mirages capabilities.

I would love to use mirage instead of chroma for eidolon hunts, except it’s always night time so no light buff, I would love to take mirage into high level bounties, but there’s no darkness to get armor buff, and mortar fire one shots her otherwise.

Likewise in missions, sometimes I could really use the extra damage to kill a kuva guardian or heavy gunner, yet the game thinks I’m in the shadows when I’m clearly in a source of light, other ones I need the armor buff to have a remote chance of surviving, I’ll run to a dark corner yet have the light buff still!

Finally prism, overall a good ability, but needs the casting animation reduced, it feels sluggish to cast and really breaks up the flow of the game.

My simple changes would be

Have mirages illusions fire at your crosshair, instead of in a straight line from themselves, this would mean all weapons would be viable on her for all situations.

Make eclipse a toggle for which buff you want, similar to how vauban and ivara toggle abilities on their 1/2 tap to swap between light/shadow buff, hold to cast, this lets you choose which buff you want and when, eliminates the buggy lighting system, and allows her to be used in more versatile roles, end of the day its either attack or defence, frames like chroma get both at once with a single ability at will, i fee mirage should be able to pick which buff she gets for its cast

Finally prism, just reduce the cast time by about 30%, so it doesn’t break the pace of the game as much, and can be used actively in combat at higher levels.

Hope to get some feedback on these ideas, I love mirage and would just like to see her tweaked to be a bit more useful overall"

By: zornyan on reddit

[(PSN)s3d_sas]

I think she's good as she is atm 

Edited December 13, 2017 by (PS4)s3d_sas

[Trickst3rGawd]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)s3d_sas said:

I think she's good as she is atm 

Okay but what are your thoughts on the Ideas. Like why shoot down a thread that wants to make a frame you like better? You seemed to have breezed past the text super fast lol. IMO Playing mirage kinda locks you down to playing passively if youre going for a specific buff and with only certain weapons to take advantage of her illusions.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Trickst3rGawd

[Voltage]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)s3d_sas said:

I think she's good as she is atm 

I would have to disagree:

Illusions are alright, but uninteresting and only is useful with AoE weapons. When said AoE weapons become too useful (simulor or Boltace), they get shoved to the nerf table. 

Sleight of Hand is mediocre. Could use improvement as it isn't really useful in general missions.

Eclipse is an underwhelming cross between Rhino and Loki.

Prism got nerfed so it is basically Excaliburs Blind, but costs as a drain ability. 

She is outclassed in CC and everytime she can effectively DPS, the combo is nerfed. I would say she's in Zephyr's tier of usefulness in a team.

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by --Q--Voltage

[Naftal]

They should make Eclipse only care about lighting on cast. It's recastable so you can change which buff you have at will.

[Trickst3rGawd]

2 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I would have to disagree:

Illusions are alright, but uninteresting and only is useful with AoE weapons. When said AoE weapons become too useful (simulor or Boltace), they get shoved to the nerf table. 

Sleight of Hand is mediocre. Could use improvement as it isn't really useful in general missions.

Eclipse is an underwhelming version between Rhino and Loki.

Prism got nerfed so it is basically Excaliburs Blind, but costs as a drain ability. 

She is outclassed in CC and everytime she can effectively DPS, the combo is nerfed. I would say she's in Zephyr's tier of usefulness in a team.

 

^This

Edited December 13, 2017 by Trickst3rGawd

[(PSN)s3d_sas]

Tbh I did past your thread because I don't think that she need more tweaks I like the state of mirage right now also that kind of conversations I'm kinda bad at it because I'm a grineer that struggle learning English 

[Trickst3rGawd]

2 minutes ago, Naftal said:

They should make Eclipse only care about lighting on cast. It's recastable so you can change which buff you have at will.

That is a fair and very thoughtful  non-broken tweak. I wouldn't mind that being the case either! Makes Mirage players a bit more interactive for sure.

[Trickst3rGawd]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)s3d_sas said:

Tbh I did past your thread because I don't think that she need more tweaks I like the state of mirage right now also that kind of conversations I'm kinda bad at it because I'm a grineer that struggle learning English 

Har har :D. Just come with a bit of an argument to why you think she doesn't need tweaks and is good as is next time. Oh and maybe read the thread and not pass it? I made this post to have a discussion not see people be like "no" giving no insight to their opinion whatsoever.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Trickst3rGawd

[(PSN)watt4hem]

14 minutes ago, Naftal said:

They should make Eclipse only care about lighting on cast. It's recastable so you can change which buff you have at will.

This, because already being able to recast would allow you to switch up benefits to which one you need, instead of relying on lighting.

 

Also, i agree that her 1's illusions should aim at the reticle, but maybe not always. Imo, making it as it is when firing from the hip, and firing at the reticle when you zoom in is the way to go, since as you said in the op : some weapons do benefit from this (mainly aoe weapons).

 Prism is okay, but it's currently only safe to cast with hall of mirrors on, if not then you'll just be gunned down. So a cast buff might help.

No comment to her 2 since i haven't tried it out since the last tweak.

[Trickst3rGawd]

1 minute ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

This, because already being able to recast would allow you to switch up benefits to which one you need, instead of relying on lighting.

 

Also, i agree that her 1's illusions should aim at the reticle, but maybe not always. Imo, making it as it is when firing from the hip, and firing at the reticle when you zoom in is the way to go, since as you said in the op : some weapons do benefit from this (mainly aoe weapons).

 Prism is okay, but it's currently only safe to cast with hall of mirrors on, if not then you'll just be gunned down. So a cast buff might help.

No comment to her 2 since i haven't tried it out since the last tweak.

I hope her latest tweaks reach console so that you can see how lack luster her second ability is :(

The cc is too quick. It needs to pull more aggro and keep the gems there constantly blinding because when the go away it's RIP

[Bouldershoulder]

40 minutes ago, Naftal said:

They should make Eclipse only care about lighting on cast. It's recastable so you can change which buff you have at will.

Lighting is unreliable. You can be immersed in shadows while standing under the open sky because that blade of grass on the far mountain drops shadow right on you.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

23 minutes ago, Trickst3rGawd said:

I hope her latest tweaks reach console so that you can see how lack luster her second ability is :(

The cc is too quick. It needs to pull more aggro and keep the gems there constantly blinding because when the go away it's RIP

We actually already got it (just tried it)

And honestly, yeah it's kinda lackluster in light. As a damaging ability in light, it is pitiful that it can't even kill level 20 mobs (actually, i ran out of energy first). And the only unit it manages to cc well enough is melee units. Ranged would just shoot you anyways..

[zornyan]

Hey I’m the original poster of the suggested changes.

 

let me first say, mirage is a really well designed and fun frame, I’ve always enjoyed playing her, and always bought her design and abilities are really good in their mechanics.

 

but I feel now, she’s been left behind a bit too much with all the changes to the game since her release.

 

her illusions are a well designed ability, you get a small damage buff, and a small defensive buff, it’s limited in scope (doesn’t help survive AOE attacks or bombards etc) and the damage only works on large AOE weapons, it’s cheap enough to cast.

 

overall the suggested changes are to allow mirage to use any weapon in the game, currently she is very very limited in weapon choice, which really kills her build viability.

 

her biggest issue is her eclipse, it just flat out does not work, most of all POE has emphasised this, it’s either day or night, you’re restricted to one type of buff for potentially over an hour, even more so that POE has lots of AOE attacks from mortars, which she needs her shadow buff to survive, but can’t recieve in the day time.

 

the closest comparison imo is Vex armor, it’s a big fat attack/def buff, mirage can get 1/2 of this, either attack OR defence, with lesser amounts than a well built chroma.

 

i fell mirage should be able to pick the appropriate buff for the situation, need to Rez a downed team mate? Get some shadow buffs going, want to try and kill lephantis quicker? Light buff it is for you! 

 

This promotes player choice, not tileset RNG, it allows her to be used more effectively in the plains, and overall can let players build for different styles.

 

for example in high level missions melee becomes unviable for mirage, because you can’t stay in a dark corner whilst trying to swing a sword at grineer, and the second you swing more than a couple times you’re out of the shadows and easily one shot.

 

prism I can live with in its current state, it’s not really that impressive since radial blind does a better job whilst being far cheaper, but a small cast reduction time would be a huge help so you don’t get killed whilst in the long and slow animation.

 

anyway I hope people can discuss this and provide some good feedback to DE, to help mirage compete more on the level of better frames.

[Trickst3rGawd]

Il y a 6 heures, zornyan a dit :

-

Me too man! Love your ideas on suggested changes.

[Trickst3rGawd]

Gotta keep this going or she will be kept as is.

[(PSN)i7081277]

maby have eclipse dmg boost effect her 4 and 2? if they intend on keeping her abilities the same.

[Trickst3rGawd]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)i7081277 said:

maby have eclipse dmg boost effect her 4 and 2? if they intend on keeping her abilities the same.

That would be sick. Hopefully they don't intend too though and show her a bit more love.

[(PSN)i7081277]

maby just off the bat make enemies shoot your clones instead of you by default?

[Trickst3rGawd]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)i7081277 said:

maby just off the bat make enemies shoot your clones instead of you by default?

Yeah the clones should be given more aggro to be sure you're super safe and ensure survivability.

[(PSN)i7081277]

and I feel like the 4 should be blinding enemies without destroying it first

 

[Marvelous_A]

Can't believe you talked about Prism so briefly coz to me it's the biggest problem of Mirage. I just couldn't find a use of it. It costs so much energy, has a really long and slow casting animation and does so little. It's just an inferior Radial Blind. Her SoH is in a similar situation also but it's a 2nd ability not an ult.

[(PSN)i7081277]

5 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Can't believe you talked about Prism so briefly coz to me it's the biggest problem of Mirage. I just couldn't find a use of it. It costs so much energy, has a really long and slow casting animation and does so little. It's just an inferior Radial Blind. Her SoH is in a similar situation also but it's a 2nd ability not an ult.

no it definitely is. but idk how they could change it. it got the prime effect. but I dd feel like mirages 4 is useless. 

 

[Foefaller]

Hall of Mirrors + Simulor is still pretty powerful. Not "invalidate any need for your allies to exist" powerful like it was, but I'm still hitting #1 in kills more often than not when I pull it out. (though admittedly, it's rarely for sorties)

Disappointed that her new 2 just damages in the daylight. Should really have a blast impact proc to it so that it at least does something for CC, even if it isn't blind.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Foefaller

[BETAOPTICS]

I find her great currently, however I am not closed off to changes either. Here are my thoughts:

Her 1st ability The Hall of Mirrors is good in my personal opinion. There is something to be said about the claim that certain weapons and especially those that require more precision suffer from the abilities function while AoE weapons thrive on her. In the last line there is the key intent of its function, the word ' AoE '. The Hall of Mirrors was never meant to be just a straight damage buff but a buff to her AoE clearing capability, that is why they shoot straight forward relative to your aiming direction and not where you aim personally. With the change it would be straight out damage buff with different visuals and more effects (visual and functional) and sure it would help out with precision weapon at the cost of AoE weapons. Personally though I do not feel limited in my choice because the purpose it is meant to serve it does well and I can see the benefits of it in its current iteration. However I do get why you'd prefer change to her 1st ability. Maybe an augment?

Her 2nd Sleight of Hand is really useful blind and adds to survival but what people misjudge is that it is best used as frequently, not sometimes or rarely. Her blind is cheap and buys her a lot of time and extra damage, but it does not last long and you may get new enemies that are not blinded. I remain conflicted by the fact that it eats the ammo from the ground in the AoE area, but I suppose it is the trade-off.

I also find that the buffs to Mirages 3rd ability the Eclipse are somewhat random to give some kind of cost to them. If you think about it, Chroma gets buffs too but he has to tank to get them, he just doesn't get them by the activation of the ability. Not only does he need to then gamble his life, it also takes away from the buff timer to get full potential. Mirages Eclipses functional problem is that it is inconsistent and unreliable as was describe in the original post. Now I understand why players want more control for her Eclipse and honestly that is fine by me, but my question is what is the cost? If you give her the buff just straight out it has the danger of being too good and getting numbers nerf or something. Which can be a trade-off some players are okay with but I don't think that is what you are asking here for either.

Her 4th ability Prism is weakest in my own personal opinion. It isn't bad, do not get me wrong, but I do agree at the very least that the cast time makes it a bit clunky and risky to use. It does not do enough damage to be worth using it for that purpose, although functionally it works otherwise very well for its purpose. The blind it gives is great and useful and for the majority of the time I find myself utilizing Prism for that purpose more than damage or combined purpose. That being said with the changes to her 2nd Sleight of Hand getting a blind, I find myself asking why would I use Prism to do the same that takes more time and energy, although blinds longer and further. Here I would agree with you that faster casting time would do wonders, if not for the same reasons as you do, and also I would love it to have a damage buff. Obviously nothing too over the top, but slightly more than currently.