Why can I take damage?

[(PSN)CrimsonAxure]

For my Trinity build, I mainly go for an invincibility build, where i have link and blessing active at all times. With my build, i have

Link - 75% Damage reduction

Blessing - 72.5% Damage reduction

In total i should have 147.5% damage reduction. But i still take damage. The damage i take is way less than without Link and Blessing, but i shouldn't be able to take any damage, because i have 147.5% damage reduction, that's more than enough to be able to block all incoming attacks, but i still take damage. 

Help?

Edited December 13, 2017 by (PS4)PS_90210

[StinkyPygmy]

There is a damage resistance cap of 90% (Maybe 99%?) to prevent people being literally invincible. So everything is working as intended.

Edited December 13, 2017 by StinkyPygmy

[(PSN)s3d_sas]

4 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

There is a damage resistance cap of 90% (Maybe 99%?) to prevent people being literally invincible. So everything is working as intended.

Imagine if trin blessings is 80% #PlzDE

[Liljeman]

Activating blessing on top of link will make in your case 72,5% of the 25% you have left (Link)75%+(Blessing)18,125%=93,125%

I am not sure about the cap but this is how I've understood the abilities work together.

[taiiat]

that's not how Damage Resistances work - taking 4 times less Damage and then 4 times less Damage again (such as if you had Blessing capped via Power Strength) would yield:

0.25 * 0.25 == 0.0625% Damage taken
1 - 0.0625 == 93.75% Damage Reduction

in your case, you have 93.125% Damage Reduction.

41 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

There is a damage resistance cap of 90% (Maybe 99%?) to prevent people being literally invincible.

no there isn't. there just is no mathematical way to reach 100% Damage Resistance without being set literally invulnerable.
same deal as Armor. 100,000,000 Armor is still not technically invulnerable.

even so, extremely high Damage Resist does instill Enemies having to deal a minimum amount of Damage in order for the final Damage that you take to round up to 1. elsewise it rounds down to 0 and you take none.
for example, the previous iteration of Trinity, Link + Blessing (99.729% with QT&Vitality + 75%) resulted in Enemies needing to deal a minimum of ~2900 Damage per attack in order for Damage to round up to 1.

Edited December 13, 2017 by taiiat

[Birdframe_Prime]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)PS_90210 said:

In total i should have 147.5% damage reduction.

I'm going to back up @Liljeman here, they're quite correct. With Blessing taking the place as the primary damage reduction every time, so 75%, it then means that any other damage reduction is reducing only the remaining damage you take.

So, enemy hits you for 100 damage when you have Blessing running, means 25 damage. If you have Link running at the same time, you're reducing that 25 damage, not the overall 100 damage, so you take 7 damage out of 100 with both running.

I'm fairly certain that you can even get Link higher than that, too, but seeing as Trin will be healing back to full health with every cast of Blessing anyway...

[lukinu_u]

When stacking damage reduction, what you get isn't a direct stack but a damage reduction over another reduction.
By using link and then blessing, what you get is 75% damage reduction and then, 72.5% damage reduction on the 25% remaing.

So, what you get is 1-[(1-0.75)*(1-0.725)] = 93.37% damage reduction, resulting to 6.62% damages taken.

[Angelid]

I honestly agree, and I have done the math as well. Blessing and Link both combine, though multiplicative to one another.

.25 dmg multiplier (75% from link)
x .275 dmg multiplier (72.5% with Blessing)
___
.06875multiplier.

You're taking 6.875% the damage you would have been, for a total of 93.125% damage reduction. It's unfortunate how it works but that's how it is.
It's honestly why I don't play trin much anymore mate, though I am looking for changes to her. Help me in my endeavors!

[Frankdark]

Do not forget Adding Damage Reduction from Armor ( even if it´s not much it should be around 20% )
And the Hard cap of 95% ( so minimum form 100 Damage is 5 )

Edited December 13, 2017 by Frankdark

[Angelid]

4 minutes ago, Frankdark said:

Do not forget Adding Damage Reduction from Armor ( even if it´s not much it should be around 20% )
And the Hard cap of 95% ( so minimum form 100 Damage is 5 )

Trinity only has 15 armor, including her prime. Her armor only gives her just over 4% damage reduction based on the formula found on the wiki.  [http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Armor] That's nowhere near the 20% you think it is. And it's one of the reasons why it's annoying that trinity can't even reach the dmg reduction cap for all frames of 95%, not even for herself, let alone her crew at 75%. The only way she gets armor for her self is with 1 augment (dropping HP orbs on death of a marked target) and Health Conversion (+300 armor on HP orb pickup, lasting some-odd amount of time and stacking up to three times I think).

[Autongnosis]

il y a 28 minutes, Angelid a dit :

It's honestly why I don't play trin much anymore mate, though I am looking for changes to her. Help me in my endeavors!

Try this:

Aura Growing Power

Exilus Cunning Drift

Blind Rage max, Primed Continuity,  Narrow Minded max, Stretch, Primed Flow, Quick Thinking, Abating Link, Vampire Leech. 

Works wonder. You get the full 93.75% DR from Bless and Link, complete armour strip from Link and a constantly renewable pool of 19.2k overshield based EHPs through Vampire Leech (on top of the 36k base EHP pool). 

It's a bit harder than your standard Trin build to manage since you need to watch energy and overshields on top of the usual timers, but it's incredibly powerful and is nearly undying even in the worst conditions. 

You can also pair it with high burst guns with no status since armour is already out of the way. IE, stuff like the Brakk does insane amounts of devastation on that build. 

Bummer part is you cannot change any mod or the whole thing crashes on itself. And it's a bit forma intensive (think you need 5 or 6 to fit this one on top of the usual Bless trin and EV trin). 

 

EDIT: sadly the Health Conversion + Pool of Life combo is unuseable, you take damage way too often to make it worth your while. You'd basically need to kill a WoLed target every 3s or so... 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Autongnosis

[Angelid]

1 minute ago, Autongnosis said:

Try this:

Aura Growing Power

Exilus Cunning Drift

Blind Rage max, Primed Continuity,  Narrow Minded max, Stretch, Primed Flow, Quick Thinking, Abating Link, Vampire Leech. 

Works wonder. You get the full 93.75% DR from Bless and Link, complete armour strip from Link and a constantly renewable pool of 19.2k overshield based EHPs through Vampire Leech (on top of the 36k base EHP pool). 

It's a bit harder than your standard Trin build to manage since you need to watch energy and overshields on top of the usual timers, but it's incredibly powerful and is nearly undying even in the worst conditions. 

You can also pair it with high burst guns with no status since armour is already out of the way. IE, stuff like the Brakk does insane amounts of devastation on that build. 

Bummer part is you cannot change any mod or the whole thing crashes on itself. And it's a bit forma intensive (think you need 5 or 6 to fit this one on top of the usual Bless trin and EV trin). 

This is honestly what I call the "Selfish Trinity" Build The problem I have with it is that it's trying to do something she wasn't designed to do, at least as far as I feel. You have to remember, she has been out a LONG time, and she filled a niche that no longer needs to exist IMO (caster healer). She needs her own play-style specifically aimed at that. Not this... mess of a frame that has to spam and doesn't get rewarded, only punished, if she's not built 'correctly' or doing her job.

I just hate that she can't work 'out of the box' like Harrow, Nidus, Octavia, and Nezha (All of them being at least slightly supporty IMO).

I guess my question to you is this: Why would I do that, when I can play Nidus and still never die and be effective at healing in a safe area, AND buff an ally giving WAY more power strength and make them more effective?
Trinity is the "I want my team to scrape by and try to survive" vs the others "I want my team to be effective at what they do" supports. :/

[Autongnosis]

Ahhhh gotcha. Well basically the "support" part of Tronity nowadays is to allow your team to ignore efficiency 

Seroously though, as far as i've been able to there is just no way to go out of those bounds. You either work as a caster that gives DR and energy doing nothing more than assuring your team stays up and has energy, or you play as a badass tank. 

There is just nothung else on the plate. It's basically impossible to do anything else with her because you have absolutely nothing to work with. No cc, no buffs to speak of etc. The only wonky thing is to feed shields to an Harrow for his Penance. 

 

As fas as the way would you do that, it's basically because there is nothing better for tanking other than the Ironclad Charge Rhino and an optimised Chroma, but neither of those are as sustainable nor they can do complete armour strip on their own. But then again if you want to use Trinity as support (or, if you want to play her as she was designed to be played), i can see why that would not be a compelling reason to go that way 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Autongnosis

[Angelid]

1 minute ago, Autongnosis said:

Ahhhh gotcha. Well basically the "support" part of Tronity nowadays is to allow your team to ignore efficiency 

Seroously though, as far as i've been able to there is just no way to go out of those bounds. You either work as a caster that gives DR and energy doing nothing more than assuring your team stays up and has energy, or you play as a badass tank. 

There is just nothung else on the plate. It's basically impossible to do anything else with her because you have absolutely nothing to work with. No cc, no buffs to speak of etc. The only wonky thing is to feed shields to an Harrow for his Penance. 

I am going to PM you my forum post, if you haven't found it already among the recently replied to in this forum, just for the sake of showing that there's people who care. I want some changes to trinity. At this point they could make almost anything change and it would work for the better for her...

[Frankdark]

Trinitiy is made not perfect, but there are a lot of Warframe in need of more attantion.
Her Healing, Damage Reduction and Energy Abilitiy gives her imens power.

The only Problem is, if she get´s overpowered from Enemys Level 200+ 

 

I know 3 Trinity MAIN Players, and they love how Trinitiy works. Even Last rounds of Daylis is no problem for them.

[Eirshy]

10 hours ago, StinkyPygmy said:

There is a damage resistance cap of 90% (Maybe 99%?) to prevent people being literally invincible. So everything is working as intended.

There is no cap on total reduction, only on each individual source (minus Armor, which uses an EHP formula).

Also you're provably wrong with a single ability on that. Mirage's Lunar Eclipse has a cap of 95% DR.

 

Everybody else has the right idea. Damage Reduction is applied multiplicatively, not additively.