Atlas... never knew how much work he needed.

[Runeglyph]

I would love to type my points out but this Video says it all...

 

 

[Somb3rBivalve]

I generally don't agree with how Brozime wants to rework frames, but I do agree with him that Atlas' 1 is holding up his entire kit from being hopelessly bad.

Atlas is my favorite frame, so I'll just list the basic things that I campaign for on him:

• Petrified enemies should drop health orbs. Right now, there is no incentive to petrify enemies because they aren't made any weaker; in fact, they are made tankier because they are immune to status while petrified. Health orbs would give some incentive. The way I see it, in order for atlas' high armor to be useful, he has to be able to take health damage. However, right now he has no way to heal that damage off without relying on stuff like life strike. It would also give him some interesting options for stuff like equilibrium and health conversion. I also think it should block bullets from the front while petrify is up
• His 2 is terrible for offense and defense. I would rank it high up on the list of worst powers in the game. Making it a bit bigger would help as would speeding up the rolling speed. There are also some fun things they could do with it like the rock shotgun idea that people seem to be so akin to as well as using landslide on it would cause you to be able to control the boulder as it's rolling around.
• His rumblers are superb damage sponges. I just wish something was done about them running into nully bubbles and dying. A passive health decay within the bubble perhaps?

[chainchompguy3]

My opinion is that Atlas was a bit ruined by his Earth themes.

When he was first conceptualized and showcased on devstream, he was Punch-frame. Not rock frame.

He ended up becoming that anyway, but not in a good way.

What should've been the case is that either his other 3 abilities be means of setting enemies up to stronger punches (Open enemies to finishers), be alternate means of punching (have a damage focused one, and a CC focused one, and perhaps and Armor break version), or simply buffs to keep him alive long enough to keep punching (Warcry-by-another-name, Ironskin-by-another-name, etc.)

 

instead, he got a weird kit of just various uses for rocks. They have no central theme, no combined usage or playstyle, no coherency.

So people just chose the one power that persisted from his initial conception: his punch.

 

Needs a complete overhaul, but that's just me.

[V.a.r-y.o.]

"Atlas Sad, Atlas Cry"

Strongly agree Atlas needs a rework.

For the 3rd Ability: Petrify

Tho i do not agree with Brozime, the range reduction for Petrify to 7m is pretty crucial, especially in PoE this could be weak.

E.g. Embers 4th with 15 meter range, does not only deal decent dmg, equipped with Firequake also good CC. Neither does Atlas 3rd with "14 meter"; deal Damage nor instant CC, the enemies still attacking till petrification taking effect on them, sure the CC effect has some duration (BUT not only "time till petrification", also nearer enemies getting faster petrified, vice versa), 7m are a big NONO.

Suggestion/Solution:

("Atlas' Petrify ability is a tribute to the Gorgon Medusa through which the Titan met his demise.") The "Stone Rate" could be removed, affected enemies should get into panic and stop attacking, because of getting petrified. I was just about to write to add this as a contra, but Atlas does not petrify enemies behind solide obstacles already. xD

Unless Medusa had to stare into other eyes till petrification ended, then... well, i wrote nonsense...

Edit: For an Ability which is limited to 60 Degree FOV and time till Ability takes effect. Either let 60 Degree FOV getting affected by Ability Range or expand the 14 Meter to 25-30 Meter. (30 Meter are insane? No, because it was enough to watch Medusa in the eyes, was she limited to any range, yes? Ok, i'll stop... ) 

Edited December 14, 2017 by V.a.r-y.o.

[KnightCole]

Atlas should totally become a vicious AoE earth shattering rock dropping earthquake causing frame.

I guess keep his 1 the same, a solid rock punch to the face, but make the combo time longer so we can do something with it

make his 2 an AoE rock dropping rain of meteorites, causing impact, fire and blast damage and knocking down everything in the area.  Give the meteor shower a duration of like 5s where it just rains down hell and fire.

Buff his Golems to where htey actually do something, make them permanent instead of duration.

Buff his wall so we can build a trump wall in games, one  thats actually big enough to cover something, and that we can vault over instead of walking through....

[Terrornaut]

17 hours ago, chainchompguy3 said:

My opinion is that Atlas was a bit ruined by his Earth themes.

When he was first conceptualized and showcased on devstream, he was Punch-frame. Not rock frame.

He ended up becoming that anyway, but not in a good way.

What should've been the case is that either his other 3 abilities be means of setting enemies up to stronger punches (Open enemies to finishers), be alternate means of punching (have a damage focused one, and a CC focused one, and perhaps and Armor break version), or simply buffs to keep him alive long enough to keep punching (Warcry-by-another-name, Ironskin-by-another-name, etc.)

 

instead, he got a weird kit of just various uses for rocks. They have no central theme, no combined usage or playstyle, no coherency.

So people just chose the one power that persisted from his initial conception: his punch.

 

Needs a complete overhaul, but that's just me.

Basically this.  I stopped playing a bit after Atlas came out and came back about 2 months ago.  Just got around to getting Atlas last week. Actually had fun getting him and the dialogue for Jordas is probably my favorite or closest to it in the game.  However once I got a hold of him, well, I didn't think anyone had it worse than my love Zephyr.

You pretty much summarized it.  DE frame designers just go OD on theme overkill often enough.  Ember, Atlas, a few others.  Atlas has it the worst though, pretty much how you describe it.  He's redeemable with worthwhile tweaks (what if boulders shattered with bonus damage from the damage they took), but petrify is an awful ability in the face of so many abilities like confusion, mprime, bastille, freeze lol.  The list could go on.
 

12 hours ago, KnightCole said:

Atlas should totally become a vicious AoE earth shattering rock dropping earthquake causing frame.

I guess keep his 1 the same, a solid rock punch to the face, but make the combo time longer so we can do something with it

make his 2 an AoE rock dropping rain of meteorites, causing impact, fire and blast damage and knocking down everything in the area.  Give the meteor shower a duration of like 5s where it just rains down hell and fire.

Buff his Golems to where htey actually do something, make them permanent instead of duration.

Buff his wall so we can build a trump wall in games, one  thats actually big enough to cover something, and that we can vault over instead of walking through....

Generally agree punch, golems, 2 would be cool but they won't do it.  No to first and third part of boulders, but, yes to second part.  Could be bigger/wider.  Blocking player movement will not go over well with people.  I already can't stand frost orbs, some people despise/ragequit over limbos, etc.

[Runeglyph]

18 hours ago, chainchompguy3 said:

My opinion is that Atlas was a bit ruined by his Earth themes.

When he was first conceptualized and showcased on devstream, he was Punch-frame. Not rock frame.

He ended up becoming that anyway, but not in a good way.

What should've been the case is that either his other 3 abilities be means of setting enemies up to stronger punches (Open enemies to finishers), be alternate means of punching (have a damage focused one, and a CC focused one, and perhaps and Armor break version), or simply buffs to keep him alive long enough to keep punching (Warcry-by-another-name, Ironskin-by-another-name, etc.)

 

instead, he got a weird kit of just various uses for rocks. They have no central theme, no combined usage or playstyle, no coherency.

So people just chose the one power that persisted from his initial conception: his punch.

 

Needs a complete overhaul, but that's just me.

No, it's NOT Just you...

[Runeglyph]

19 hours ago, Somb3rBivalve said:

I generally don't agree with how Brozime wants to rework frames, but I do agree with him that Atlas' 1 is holding up his entire kit from being hopelessly bad.

Atlas is my favorite frame, so I'll just list the basic things that I campaign for on him:

• Petrified enemies should drop health orbs. Right now, there is no incentive to petrify enemies because they aren't made any weaker; in fact, they are made tankier because they are immune to status while petrified. Health orbs would give some incentive. The way I see it, in order for atlas' high armor to be useful, he has to be able to take health damage. However, right now he has no way to heal that damage off without relying on stuff like life strike. It would also give him some interesting options for stuff like equilibrium and health conversion. I also think it should block bullets from the front while petrify is up
• His 2 is terrible for offense and defense. I would rank it high up on the list of worst powers in the game. Making it a bit bigger would help as would speeding up the rolling speed. There are also some fun things they could do with it like the rock shotgun idea that people seem to be so akin to as well as using landslide on it would cause you to be able to control the boulder as it's rolling around.
• His rumblers are superb damage sponges. I just wish something was done about them running into nully bubbles and dying. A passive health decay within the bubble perhaps?

I do agree with almost all of what you said...

The Petrification ability like Brozime suggested, should be placeable Totems of at least 2 but i think could have 12m Range with 75 degree Angle and have "Ore Gaze"  Standard on that Ability.

Also it Should have an Armor Decrease for enemies.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Runeglyph

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Am 14.12.2017 um 02:46 schrieb chainchompguy3:

 

While true, there is still combo. Combo that does not require any special interaction with melee outside of his punch, fills up at a decent rate (i'm usually at3,5-4x combo on content like poe alone) allows the use of primary and secondary weapons (brilliant for the hunter set and combined with huras for stealth multipliers -tho i'm not 100% if they work or not, or straight life management with a furis) and it's essencially an exalted ability with appropiate raw.

I mean it works out as a standalone ability and provides appropiate results that doesn't need anything else to be good.. (Doing 5 digits on armor sorties is not a problem) 

From that perspective, it's fine for him to have a little varriety. His walls are defense and rumblers are good tanks stat stagger enemys help tracking them... even his gaze is not so bad since he does come with path of statues...

 

His only real issue is that pertified enemys tend do become nearly invulnerable at times (had an enemy reduced from 20k to 200/punch just recently. That's a reduction of 99% that sure as hell is not intendet and hasn't been fixed for a while now.)

I am satisfied with where he is. I really am. I'd appreciate a polish tho....

[Terrornaut]

Petrify is probably the worst CC ability in the game.  It takes time, time that scales with your stats, if it can petrify an enemy at all, and then they either get armor or become immune to stat procs.  Its channeled cost also right?  Small area, slow/no cast, makes enemies take less damage, contributes no other special effects or anything that compliments Atlas's or anyone elses kits.  Why is it unnecessarily bad compared to so many other things.

Vs Radial blind.  Get Damage multiplier.  Instant cast and med area
Vs Confuse.  They might do nothing to you or they might attack or proc an enemy. Instant cast wide area.
Vs Bastille.  They do nothing.  Instant cast med area.
Vs Fireblast lol. Knock down and possible panic. Instant cast small-med area.
Vs Shock. ELECTRIC HOLY GHOST PARTY TIME.  Instant cast small area.
Vs Mass Vitrify.  Slow cast large area.

The list could go on.  How this is acceptable, I will never understand.

[Xiaran]

possible suggestions for atlas.

 

second skill :

1. a round 360 degree wall instead of just a frontal wall which could trap enemies inside or keep them out :v.

this would explode upon health being depleted and would serve to choke enemies or just help defend areas better. and the mod would increase the wall's health by a specific amount or a percentage of damage done by landslide every time.

2. alternatively, change it to atlas taking out a huge chunk of rock from the ground( him holding the work reference) and then chucking it at enemies doing massive amounts of damage and knocking them down.

this would be a fast rock throw with the giant earth exploding upon impact, causing a huge aoe and a augment mod that would allow atlas to regenerate health if the boulder kills the enemies.

 

third skill:

1. get rid of petrify and replace with the rock pets

move the augment mod from the 4th to 3rd and make the rock pets drain energy instead of being a timed summon. or allow atlas to summon as many as he wants with each having it's own timer and the augment being able to destroy them before summoning more.

2. make atlas clap his hands together and do a large aoe petrify in all angles whilst being stationary to allow others to kill them whilst he remains there keeping them petrified.

basically a better petrify.

3. turn it into an instant skill that petrifies enemies in a 60 degree arc in front of him immediately instead of a channeled slow skill.

cost more to activate but benefits are instant too. augment mod would either increase wall's health by a set amount based on the number of enemies petrified or give a chance for the skill to instantly kill enemies that get petrified

 

fourth skill:

1. channeled rock pets

augment works the same but the pet/s don't die but rather remain as long as atlas as energy and wont die upon contact with bubble but will cancel if atlas goes into bubbles.

2. move the pets down to other skills or get rid of it and make atlas do a large rhino like aoe punch

augment mod would give a chance of petrifying affected enemies. it would knock everyone down and open them up to finishers.

3. a super strong single punch that would hit in a single point or line

idea behind this is to assert his dominance as the brawler frame and this attack would cost more energy than any other active skills and deal a huge chunk of damage and scale with weapon mods. augment mod would heal atlas for a small percent of the damage done.

 

extra stuff:

- landslide being usable despite no target nearby

-landslide range increasing with range mods

- changing passive to make atlas release a petrify wave sometimes when hit

- change his landslide to his ultimate and make his first skill a grab attack that, if connects to an enemy, would make atlas slam them to the ground for a big aoe and if it doesn't connect, then a single line long range impact force

- making wall after using landslide would multiply the wall's starting health based on landslide damage dealt like iron skin after rhino charge.

[Azamagon]

Some tweaks to keep him basicly as he is, yet make him way, way, way more kit-diverse! (Showing some of your ideas too, @Archwizard)

Landslide - Stays as is. IF anything, holding the button down could let it go "fullauto" (to reduce button-wear).

Tectonics - This ability gets FAR more varied uses, like a true Earthbender:

• Cast Landslide on it to explode / rock shotgun it (whatever is easier for DE to implement). Damage of this effect is based on the wall's health AND Landslide combined.
• The wall can be summoned at some distance away (akin to Decoy). Casting distance would be affected by Ability Range.
• When the wall is summoned, it knocks down enemies in a medium range AoE around the wall (AoE being affected by Ability Range).
• Boulder-form travels faster, and has a moderate-range gravity-effect (think a mobile, smaller Vortex, basicly), this range being affected by Ability Range.
• Boulder-form's damage is further boosted by the wall's health.
• If Atlas is close to the wall, he can press X to roll with the boulder (he puts himself inside of it), allowing you to steer it manually (the Boulder works as a temporary "shield" for him, with health equal to the wall's health, during travel).
• The wall is now a physical object that can be climbed/stood upon and parkoured off of by Tenno, but you can still pass through it like now by walking/running/sliding/rolling through it.
• Unsure addition: Can now summon up to 4 walls by default; holdcasting causes your last/closest/all(?) created wall to become a boulder (If this is not added, at least allow this "holdcast to turn into boulder"-feature be added to the current augment, please?).
• Unsure augment revamp: Tectonic Fracture Stalagmite Reaction -> Tectonic walls (and boulders) now retaliate instantly by shooting out underground earth spikes against enemies who attack the walls. Can attack an unlimited amount of enemies at once, but each individual enemy cannot be attacked by a spike more than once every 2 seconds. Damage of these spikes are equial to 3/6/9/12% of the wall's current health. Does not retaliate against enemies who have no ground beneath them (meaning, it CAN attack flying enemies, but not enemies who are directly above pitfalls or deep water)
  Note: This augment is only there to replace the current one, if you could summon multiple walls by default.

Petrify - Becomes a skill worth using, functioning as his "sustain"-skill:

• Killing petrifed enemies has a chance to spawn health orbs, chance is directly linear to how petrified they are (so, full petrify = 100% chance). That, or simply killing a petrified enemy heals the killer for X amount (healing scaled based on petrification amount).
• It continuously heals his Tectonics wall and Rumbler buddies.
• No longer reduces movementspeed (but could still prevent him from sprinting etc).
• While Petrify is active he is now allowed to use his other abilities. MAYBE allow him to use his secondary weapon too?
• Petrify reduces damage done of enemy attacks which passes through the petrifying cone, by a decent, unmodifiable amount (Say, 60%?).

Rumblers - These buddies now become some SERIOUS bros to have around:

• Damage taken by Atlas while Rumblers are active will be split with them (granting 66% mitigation with two up, or 50% with one up).
• Rumblers lose health every second they remain within Nullifier bubbles, rather than detonating immediately.
• Rumbler attacks increase Atlas' melee combo count, threat towards the Rumbler, and the damage of their death-explosions.
• Augment: Buffed -> The single Rumbler now has 200/250/300/350% health of a single one, deals 200/250/300/350% damage of a single one, all of its attacks are dealt in an AoE, and it no longer has a movementpenalty. (There is still a hidden penalty: You don't split as much damage as you do with 2 Rumblers, although it does have more health to compensate).

Edited December 15, 2017 by Azamagon

[Terrornaut]

1 hour ago, Azamagon said:

Rumbler attacks increase Atlas' melee combo count, threat towards the Rumbler, and the damage of their death-explosions.

Pretty much agree with everything you've mentioned but this (combo increase).  This would be a good augment. Like top tier augment.  Would be pretty crazed to have it built into the base part of the kit.  Rumblers going nuclear would be great and possibly hilarious though.

Would probably say to not use anything but abilities during Petrify, because it makes it more likely to be a stronger ability since you have to sacrifice some utility and major damage of your weapons to be locked into only landslide, or healing your 2/4 instead of killing the things damaging them.