Operator idea

[Iccotak]

EDIT: I don't want to hear you complaining about playing Teenagers. Or make impossible requests to have the option to remove Operators from your experience because you could not care less about the story or because of "Lore inconsistencies". There are other threads for that. 
Feel free to discuss and provide feedback on current Operator combat mechanics and/or suggest things & features you would like to see for Operators.
(besides removal and/or making them ghosts/adults)

About current Operators
I do think it is cool that DE are finding more ways to include Operators but I think there are other ways, besides combat, that can be done.
There are other threads that discuss using Focus as a way to upgrade Operators to make them more sustainable for combat.
I do not think DE is going to stop or take back Operators being in combat so the best course of action would be toughening them up as well as making warframe/operator transitions more smooth and less disjointing.
On to the idea.

Suggestion
NOTE: This is a feature that would not be available until you have completed TWW
Make Operators more of a core aspect in puzzle levels, like we saw in the War Within (if you have played Ratchet & Clank, think of the levels where you played as Clank)
Put secret areas in maps that can be accessed by operators and have puzzles to solve that reward focus and some good mods. These would be great to see in Orokin maps.
Also put these kinds of areas throughout Eidolon and other open world maps to encourage exploration. 

Give the Operators more activities for puzzles, finding lore, story exploration, that not only act as optional activities with rewards but also necessary steps that further the progress in specific levels and maps.
(look at the Last Guardian and how the boy is used to progress him and Trico through the map.)

Edited December 19, 2017 by Iccotak

[Phobonaut]

Yes. YES. YEESSS. Do keep in mind this should be added only in content that's clearly for people that completed TWW, or we'll get a million questions how to get into some hidden treasure room and people will spoil the Second Dream surprises for themselves.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Phobonaut

[Iccotak]

8 minutes ago, Phobonaut said:

Yes. YES. YEESSS. Do keep in mind this should be added only in content that's clearly for people that completed TWW, or we'll get a million questions how to get into some hidden treasure room and people will spoil the Second Dream surprises for themselves.

yes, they would not be visible unless you completed TWW

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

I hate operators. I signed up to be a bad &#! space wizard/samurai(we are not ninjas, nothing stealthy about us in general) not an emo teen mutant from the movie Logan.

The only option that I will ever support, and will change my position on operators; if there was an option to mature your operator and make him/her an adult. In lieu of that my only desire and dream is a quest where I can kill off my operator's body and just be a ghost in the machine, maybe even take over cephalon ordis matrix since apparently in canon he is actually a transferred consciousness.

[Iccotak]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

I hate operators. I signed up to be a bad &#! space wizard/samurai(we are not ninjas, nothing stealthy about us in general) not an emo teen mutant from the movie Logan.

The only option that I will ever support, and will change my position on operators; if there was an option to mature your operator and make him/her an adult. In lieu of that my only desire and dream is a quest where I can kill off my operator's body and just be a ghost in the machine, maybe even take over cephalon ordis matrix since apparently in canon he is actually a transferred consciousness.

ah yes those who hate the whole concept of playing a teenager and would sacrifice any meaningful storytelling to make themselves feel more 'dignified' and/or 'BA'.
The point of the story is that your character matures and grows up mentally. It is the transition from "emo" to grown up mind set

That is why my suggestion is more centered to puzzles and less on combat because I find those mechanics disjointing in combat but I think they are great for Ico/RiME/Journey puzzle type places. 
Maybe give suggestions that take into account the story (and respect DEs vision) while trying to figure out how to apply the Operator mechanics to the Warframes.

btw the concept of operators comes from mecha animes specially "Neon Genesis Evangelion" 
Picture in the spoiler.

Spoiler

 

 

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

Yeah I get it, but even then it is still a perversion of the theme, because the kids in NGE where still physically connected to the Evangelions. And they were consciously aware of what they were doing. And as far as I am concerned one of the biggest critique of that show is the weird emo antics of the main characters. Adding this type of story into the lore of warframe has resulted in kinda disjointed reality because up until the second dream you are under the impression that there is actually someone/something real inside that Warframe. And as an old player I read alot of the old lore and they represented the frames as being unique individuals. And much of the old content is still framed that way, It still says Excaliber was the first warframe, which it can't be anymore there are now a series of frames which were built around this time.  I just finished the Limbo Quest and Ordis talks about Limbo like it's a real being, even though in reality Limbo was one of those kids in stasis right next to you on the moon. And does that mean the kid died inside his stasis pod on lua a long time ago? How was Mesa and Valkyr captured and went crazy being experimented on if transference could be easily broken(remember the War Within changed how that works and made transferrence stronger so up until that time your connection to the frame is weaker because of you being on lua)? IMO the operator muddled the story and the theme of the game. POE has continued that tradition but let's stick with the operator.

Part of this which kinda irks me was I recalled we had numerous arguments and theories about the true nature of the tenno on PC long before Second Dream. Not once in any conversation did a scenario even remotely like operators was even contemplated.  Opinion was evenly divided between "there is a living being fused into the warframe like Master Chief" or "we are spirits held together by void energy and that allows us to inhabit the frames and use our powers". Both of which fit the existing lore and theme of the game more than we are all Shinji/Neo. With a background of the emo teen mutants from Logan.

I mean I never once heard anyone express desire to have a real life human body in the game. We were all pretty enthusiastic about acquiring as many warframes as we could and have them be as varied as they can. Operators completely came outa left field and I don't know what logic is to justify their inclusion both as a part of the lore and as a mechanic in the game. It personally annoys me that I have been demoted to a freaking teenager living in a pod most of his/her life.

[Iccotak]

Quote

And as far as I am concerned one of the biggest critique of that show is the weird emo antics of the main characters.

The show was praised and is still seen as one of the most phenomenal work of animation for its fully fledged characters who were flawed human beings just trying to find their place in the world. They were vunerable. They were broken and dealing with depression. Which was a more realistic and interesting story than typical power-fantasy anime machismo protagonists.
 

1 hour ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Adding this type of story into the lore of warframe has resulted in kinda disjointed reality because up until the second dream you are under the impression that there is actually someone/something real inside that Warframe. And as an old player I read alot of the old lore and they represented the frames as being unique individuals.

Actually much of the lore hints that the warframes are separate entities and/or organic constructs. How else would you explain switching between suit of different sexes? They have too many body types for one person to fit in all that.

1 hour ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

It still says Excaliber was the first warframe, which it can't be anymore there are now a series of frames which were built around this time.  I just finished the Limbo Quest and Ordis talks about Limbo like it's a real being, even though in reality Limbo was one of those kids in stasis right next to you on the moon

Limbo was the frame based on the work of an Orokin by the name of Limbo. Hence "Limbo's Theorem"
Excalibur is still the first one. The first prototype. 
 

1 hour ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

How was Mesa and Valkyr captured and went crazy being experimented on if transference could be easily broken(remember the War Within changed how that works and made transferrence stronger so up until that time your connection to the frame is weaker because of you being on lua)?

Mesa was a frame taken over by infested. Valkyr was tortured while in transference and it probably broke the connection (or killed them) due to the pain. (sometime Lore takes precedence over gameplay mechanics) 
The only person who could break your transference was the Queen. 
 

1 hour ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Opinion was evenly divided between "there is a living being fused into the warframe like Master Chief" or "we are spirits held together by void energy and that allows us to inhabit the frames and use our powers". Both of which fit the existing lore and theme of the game more than we are all Shinji/Neo. With a background of the emo teen mutants from Logan.

Operator was not a late addition to lore. It was an idea early in inception and they heavily hinted at it with the Zeriman ship lore bits. I know people who saw it coming.
 

1 hour ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Operators completely came outa left field and I don't know what logic is to justify their inclusion both as a part of the lore and as a mechanic in the game. It personally annoys me that I have been demoted to a freaking teenager living in a pod most of his/her life.

Teenagers are people too. The Operators were Child Soldiers of the Orokin, that sounds interesting.
I see it as an interesting story avenue and opportunity. Not a hinderance to my "Power-Fantasy"

Also Logan was an excellent film.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Iccotak

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

1 hour ago, Iccotak said:

The show was praised and is still seen as one of the most phenomenal work of animation for its fully fledged characters who were flawed human beings just trying to find their place in the world. They were vunerable. They were broken and dealing with depression. Which was a more realistic and interesting story than typical power-fantasy anime machismo protagonists.
I don't hate the show, and I also think it's a awesome anime. But people do have an issue with the characterizations within the show. The hugest controversy was the End Of Evangelion and the way Shinji was represented.

Actually much of the lore hints that the warframes are separate entities and/or organic constructs. How else would you explain switching between suit of different sexes? They have too many body types for one person to fit in all that.
No truth is it was incomplete and left up to wide interpretation. And this is one of the points where the gameplay broke with the lore because an original design concept was abandoned. The original concept where supposed to feature male and female variant of warframes(for example Nyx is originally the female Excalibur) This is why alot of the older lore dealt with interacting with the warframes as individual entities. But if transferrence was the underlying technology, and it wasn't a secret that it was then it absolutely breaks the background for many of the warframes. Hell the Second dream doesn't explain how warframes like Inaros and Titania actually exist since they were created outside the presence or knowledge of the tenno children who were transferring their consciousness on lua.

Limbo was the frame based on the work of an Orokin by the name of Limbo. Hence "Limbo's Theorem"

Umm that's open to interpretation, it doesn't outright say Limbo is an orokin, and he can't be because he's experimenting with void energy, something that only tenno can do.
Excalibur is still the first one. The first prototype. 

Except now he is one of several prototypes that had to have been designed and built at the same time. In the lore it says excalibur was the first tenno to come back from the void changed. Now he isn't even the first of anything, he is being shared by a bunch of children trapped on a ship in the void.  In fact that is one of my main points about how all this breaks the lore. Up until the second dream iif you understand what is going on any one of the tenno on lua could be operating the warframes. There is no indication that an individual tenno takes over a ship or warframes. Think about that moment when you find the operator. Does that look like it opened a SPECIFIC stasis pod? Never in any conversation about lore was the idea expressed that some external entity was controlling the frames. Every discussion and every representation of the warframes prior to the second dream being released assumed that whatever the nature of the warframe/tenno relationship was, they were one and the same entity for all intents and purposes.

Mesa was a frame taken over by infested. Valkyr was tortured while in transference and it probably broke the connection (or killed them) due to the pain. (sometime Lore takes precedence over gameplay mechanics).
But the lore specify that Mesa was corrupted by the infestation. How can that be if it's just an empty puppet controlled by a being who can sever that connection at any time? Likewise the background for Valkyr was that Alad V subjected "Her" (but if you are a male operator how can that be?) to live experimentation and dissection and she went mad because of the immense pain of peeling away her outer skin. How could that be if once again transferrence can be severed?
The only person who could break your transference was the Queen. 
 

No, Hunhow and the Stalker could as well.  And now if you think about it so can Vor with that device. And the key difference was the Queen could not only sever your transferrence but reach out and affect you directly via transferrence. That's the power of Kuva. And technically that whole event is what really makes your transferrence to the warframe complete. That is the reason the operator can now not just fly around like a spirit as before the update to focus 2.0 but now take coporeal form and can teleport to the warframe's location. Prior to War within if you think about it your transferrence was till similar to what lotus did on lua, it was a incomplete connection.
 

Operator was not a late addition to lore. It was an idea early in inception and they heavily hinted at it with the Zeriman ship lore bits. I know people who saw it coming.

Dude I have been playing for over 2 years, I've played on PC and Ps4, I have read wiki articles and people who went on personal missions looking for lore in the game when it was sparse and barebones. The only reference to children was the hint that orokin experimented with children AFTER the effects of void energy were discovered. This was technically directly after the creation of Excalibur. And it was heavily hinted was THIS was the reason the Tenno turned on the Orokin. These were adult tenno using warframe bodies who were created by the orokin to fight the great war. The Stalker is supposed to be one of the lower tenno guard of the original Prime Warframes. He wasn't one of the children trapped on the ship set for Tau Ceti.

Teenagers are people too. The Operators were Child Soldiers of the Orokin, that sounds interesting.
I see it as an interesting story avenue and opportunity. Not a hinderance to my "Power-Fantasy"

Nope sorry, that's a anime convention I an not a fan of an is used to help children identify with the main character to the story. And it's used ad naseum even to the point of being creepy, like Gunslinger Girl. This is a mature game and it's rated mature. I didn't sign up to play a kid, not in this game. And now I play with the reality that I'm a teen actually telepathically projecting my mind and acting out mass murder and wonton destruction with no conscious. And now i can teleport there and directly take part in the action. We could have stayed adult and have adult conversation and confront adult issues as we are doing VERY adult things.

Also Logan was an excellent film.

Oh no, it was AMAZING. Kept me at the edge of my seat and a tear in my eye. But not because of the kids, but because of LOGAN. I finally got to see the Wolverine Story I always wanted to. And you could have replaced those preteens and replaced them with 20 years olds and absolutely NOTHING would change, and it would still make sense. They just wanted to give Logan a Father/Daughter Parent/Child dynamic to humanize him. In fact I would say having them be adults would have given them more agency in the story, and the end scene would have been even more epic as Logan puts the mantle of wolverine on again, takes leadership (didn't he run an xmen squad in the comics?) and passes the torch to a new gen of Xmen.

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by (PS4)HurricaneHugo76

[Gamma745]

7 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

No truth is it was incomplete and left up to wide interpretation. And this is one of the points where the gameplay broke with the lore because an original design concept was abandoned. The original concept where supposed to feature male and female variant of warframes(for example Nyx is originally the female Excalibur) This is why alot of the older lore dealt with interacting with the warframes as individual entities. But if transferrence was the underlying technology, and it wasn't a secret that it was then it absolutely breaks the background for many of the warframes. Hell the Second dream doesn't explain how warframes like Inaros and Titania actually exist since they were created outside the presence or knowledge of the tenno children who were transferring their consciousness on lua.

The original concept of female and male variant of Warframes was even scrapped before the game got anywhere, before DE even start with divulging any lore. It's a concept that was scrapped early.

Inaros and Titania created outside of the Tenno children knowledge? Where and how did you create this head-canon?

Inaros was specifically stated to REBEL against the OROKIN and defend the Martian Sand People. Meaning she was created by the Orokin, and the Operator decided to go against them.

Titania designer, Silvana, mentioned early in the message recording that she was relieved to be not drafted to the Orokin War Project. Meaning the War was still ongoing. Meaning the Titania she made can still be put into mass production to be used by the Zariman Ten-Zero survivor in the war.

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Except now he is one of several prototypes that had to have been designed and built at the same time. In the lore it says excalibur was the first tenno to come back from the void changed.

More fan-canon. Here is the "old lore" you're referring to, the Excalibur Prime codex entry:

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.

Where does it state the Excal was the first Tenno that came out? Excal was only the first one created. The first in line. The First Prototype.

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

In fact that is one of my main points about how all this breaks the lore. Up until the second dream iif you understand what is going on any one of the tenno on lua could be operating the warframes. There is no indication that an individual tenno takes over a ship or warframes. Think about that moment when you find the operator. Does that look like it opened a SPECIFIC stasis pod? Never in any conversation about lore was the idea expressed that some external entity was controlling the frames. Every discussion and every representation of the warframes prior to the second dream being released assumed that whatever the nature of the warframe/tenno relationship was, they were one and the same entity for all intents and purposes.

There are no indication that it CANNOT be an outside control either. Operator reveal was supposed to be a big plot twist, so what makes you think DE is willing to indulge too much spoilers beforehand?

Also, before Second Dream, it was assumed Tenno/Warframe was the same entity? People can suspect that there is something inside the Warframe, controlling it, but not actually the Warframe itself. If Warframe and Tenno are the same entity, we should've been locked into one Warframe for our entire gameplay. Popular fan theory was the Tenno was some kind of energy being that can move and change between Warframe. Honestly, Operator concept fall perfectly inline with it.

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

But the lore specify that Mesa was corrupted by the infestation. How can that be if it's just an empty puppet controlled by a being who can sever that connection at any time?

And this where you fail logic. Tell me, what will happen when a puppet lost its puppet-master or disconnected from its strings? It became immobile, easily controlled by anyone that can move it. Like you even said, the Mesa we see in the Patient Zero quest is an empty shell, controlled by the Infestation. This is a direct quote of the Lotus during the quest:

That's not a Tenno. That's a hollow Warframe being puppeted by Infested flesh. Put it out of its misery.

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Likewise the background for Valkyr was that Alad V subjected "Her" (but if you are a male operator how can that be?) to live experimentation and dissection and she went mad because of the immense pain of peeling away her outer skin. How could that be if once again transferrence can be severed?

We still refer to specific Warframe by "he" or "she", depending on the Frame. So what's the problem with that? Would you prefer if we all started referring to Warframe by collective "it"?

Transference was severed because we are awake. Because we realize we can. Those who are still in 'The Second Dream' think they are the Warframe, and most likely have only that Warframe to get into at that time. Do you know how to "manually" wake up from a dream?

Although, this is just my personal explanation. Not exactly any more valid than anyone else.

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

The only reference to children was the hint that orokin experimented with children AFTER the effects of void energy were discovered. This was technically directly after the creation of Excalibur.

And this is where you contradict the old lore itself. Again, from the Excalibur codex:

In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed.

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.

The Warframes, even Excalibur, was created to be used by those who are twisted by the Void, in other word, the Zariman Ten-Zero survivor.

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

And it was heavily hinted was THIS was the reason the Tenno turned on the Orokin. These were adult tenno using warframe bodies who were created by the orokin to fight the great war. The Stalker is supposed to be one of the lower tenno guard of the original Prime Warframes. He wasn't one of the children trapped on the ship set for Tau Ceti.

Now this one, I would like to know where you get this idea, because what sources I found never even implied the true reason the Tenno went genocidal against the Orokin.

The Stalker was one of the lower guards, though not necessarily for the Prime Warframes. Doesn't mean he can't use the same technology. It is heavily implied that he is, separate, from the rest of the Tenno, though how is still not disclosed.

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Nope sorry, that's a anime convention I an not a fan of an is used to help children identify with the main character to the story. And it's used ad naseum even to the point of being creepy, like Gunslinger Girl. This is a mature game and it's rated mature. I didn't sign up to play a kid, not in this game. And now I play with the reality that I'm a teen actually telepathically projecting my mind and acting out mass murder and wonton destruction with no conscious. And now i can teleport there and directly take part in the action. We could have stayed adult and have adult conversation and confront adult issues as we are doing VERY adult things.

This is the part where you could've said "It's just not my taste" and leave it at that. Personal taste is not something to argue, but let's not make-up fan-canon to justify your taste. You're free to imagine whatever head-canon you want to satisfy yourself, just keep it to yourself.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Gamma745

[xXDeadsinxX]

They’ve talked about doing puzzles with Operators on one of the recent devstreams. I would love to see this be added actually, would be nice to do some cool puzzles and stuff with the Operator. But another thing that would need to be expanded upon, is that Operators would need to have parkour mechanics as well as our Warframes do. 

[Gamma745]

1 hour ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

..Operators would need to have parkour mechanics as well as our Warframes do. 

Well, I don't know how necessary that would be, since the Operator have a child body. I thought the concept of Operator combat is supposed to be the raw, destructive Void energy, or empowering the Warframe.

There are some people that said some aspect of Parkour 1.0 could be applied to the Operator.

[Iccotak]

Lore aside. I do think that the Operators should not be so combat focused other than giving nice passives to the frame.
However, it is probable that over the course of the story the Operators will become more capable in combat. DE just needs to make the Operator/Warframe transition less disjointing.

I think Operators would be great for story interaction, and I would like to see more/better voices added in. Also could we add the hairstyles of the characters from Evangelion? Would like tamer less crazy anime hair.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Iccotak

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

6 hours ago, Gamma745 said:

And this is where you contradict the old lore itself. Again, from the Excalibur codex:

In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed.

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.

The Warframes, even Excalibur, was created to be used by those who are twisted by the Void, in other word, the Zariman Ten-Zero survivor.

Yeah, but the issue lies that Excalibur's lore was introduced alot earlier than the entry that mentioned children experimentation in the old lore. So the original assumption was that the Prime warframes were the original prototypes and that the regular warframes were more mass produced scaled down models that were created because they needed an army to fight the sentients. So in actuality the excaliber we play isn't the first warframe, not even the first model, he is based on the original Excalibur Prime, The REAL first warframe. So the assumption was that the orokin, after discovering what happened to the tenno in the void, started trying to figure out ways to mass produce warframes, and had no qualms about using children, and were hiding that fact. One of the revolving arguments that happened whenever we talked about lore in the game was the logical disconnect of the operator referring to you as a singular being while you had an entire soccer team of characters you could play. Most assumed that gameplay options trumped lore and there was never supposed to be a reason for this discrepancy. There is also the other issue that the original design concept had male and female variants, so more than likely the original idea was you picked one gender and you only got warframes of that gender, therefore creating a framework to have a singular being who just switched from suit to suit. It was this stupid simple fact that drive the majority of lore speculation, what scenario would allow you to switch between physically and gender specific beings but still retain a sense of individuality? Alot of the lore made reference that the warframes were the culmination of the entirety of Orokin knowledge and skill. Many took this to mean it had Orokin tech, Technocyte biotech, and void powers all woven together. Like Master Chief and the Mjolnir armor. So that's why most discussion broke down between, "there's no way to know they didn't put enough details" and "We are spirits of pure energy and we "possess" warframes" and "We are basically Master Chief and it's just a suspension of disbelief and a conceit that we can have 20 warframes".

In the original lore concept there was only supposed to be one Warframe per ship, and the tenno is fused to the suit. And when the idea was gender neutral frames, the story was being crafted as, one tenno per ship, and that tenno can wear any suit he/she likes. But in typical DE fashion at some point they decided to abandon that Idea entirely and just make individual warframes instead of trying to make male and female versions. More than likely to save on development time and push content out faster. Probably hoping to go back and flesh them out or they just felt it wasn't important to explain the logic behind it and focus on the core gameplay experience. But after the game took hold and there were starting to be long term players players who were calling out the logical problem with lore vs game, they decided the retcon the whole thing to fit the game as it currently stands. And IMO the operator and that development and evolution grew out of that decision, it was never part of the original game design.

6 hours ago, Gamma745 said:

Now this one, I would like to know where you get this idea, because what sources I found never even implied the true reason the Tenno went genocidal against the Orokin.

The Stalker was one of the lower guards, though not necessarily for the Prime Warframes. Doesn't mean he can't use the same technology. It is heavily implied that he is, separate, from the rest of the Tenno, though how is still not disclosed.

There is a whole buncha speculation about the origin of the Stalker, he wears warframe armor and has void powers, but is not a playable character. He apparently never went into stasis like the rest of the tenno and was a direct witness to the events of the end of the Orokin era. His lore entry hints that not only was there was an idea of different ranks of tenno but that he was of a lower rank and not part of the elite, the Prime Warframe Tenno. His lore hints it was the primes that assassinated the orokin and the rest of the tenno clans supported it. Once again this was a time before Samaris, Before Natah, and before Second Dream, so this all came out as bits and pieces and came with alot of conjecture. But things like Natah, Lua, and the operator being a child transferring their "soul" to a robot was never in any of the discussion I had and I never saw those details coming when I played Natah/Second Dream. I was personally more in the Beings of Energy camp because it fit with the idea of what the nature of void energy could be and created a logical reason why one being could play as a hulking giant one moment and then a petite woman the next and still be considered the same person.

[StabbyTentacles]

17 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

I hate operators. I signed up to be a bad &#! space wizard/samurai(we are not ninjas, nothing stealthy about us in general) not an emo teen mutant from the movie Logan.

The only option that I will ever support, and will change my position on operators; if there was an option to mature your operator and make him/her an adult. In lieu of that my only desire and dream is a quest where I can kill off my operator's body and just be a ghost in the machine, maybe even take over cephalon ordis matrix since apparently in canon he is actually a transferred consciousness.

Yes. 

17 hours ago, Iccotak said:

ah yes those who hate the whole concept ...snip
Maybe give suggestions that take into account the story (and respect DEs vision) .

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

HurricaneHugo76 was pretty clear Icotak, he then also made a suggestion, that clearly took into account De's 'story'.

Like it or not there are a great many players who'd really rather not operator. Its not a personal attack on you, nor is it an attack on DE. It's just the simple fact that the operator is a bit crap. (In many player's opinions.) Please enjoy your operator. But aslo try to understand that there is also no real reason/rationale for there to be one, and undeniably no reason to force one on everybody.  

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

14 minutes ago, StabbyTentacles said:

Yes. 

HurricaneHugo76 was pretty clear Icotak, he then also made a suggestion, that clearly took into account De's 'story'.

Like it or not there are a great many players who'd really rather not operator. Its not a personal attack on you, nor is it an attack on DE. It's just the simple fact that the operator is a bit crap. (In many player's opinions.) Please enjoy your operator. But aslo try to understand that there is also no real reason/rationale for there to be one, and undeniably no reason to force one on everybody.  

Thank you. while I don't like operators, I would be more accepting if they were able to be changed to look how I want. But every time I see that face pop up during a mission, or wander back to that room, I still don't see how that kids fits into everything else in the game. And to me personally it's a bit creepy to think that everything happening in the game is the results of a child's decision. Because I used to joke all the time that in reality the Warframes, and the Lotus, are just as vicious and evil as the Grineer or Corpus in alot of respects. It is truly an amoral and immoral solar system.

[Iccotak]

5 hours ago, StabbyTentacles said:

HurricaneHugo76 was pretty clear Icotak, he then also made a suggestion, that clearly took into account De's 'story'.

Like it or not there are a great many players who'd really rather not operator.

No he really did not. 
He said he would rather kill the child and be some form of energy being/ghost, halt or remove the story of growing up in order to satisfy their personal taste of feeling like a "BA killing machine/ninja" or to satisfy what their original notions of what the Tenno were.
It is a clear disregard of the story DE wants to tell because he doesn't want to play a teenage character.
He sees teenage characters solely as a trope to give teenagers a way to relate to the story when that is not entirely the case.
I point to again Evangelion as an extremely mature story dealing with death, depression, child soldiers, familial relationships, growing up, gender, sex, sexual orientation, etc.
 

Quote

Its not a personal attack on you, nor is it an attack on DE. It's just the simple fact that the operator is a bit crap. (In many player's opinions.) Please enjoy your operator. But aslo try to understand that there is also no real reason/rationale for there to be one, and undeniably no reason to force one on everybody.  

Never said it was a personal attack. I am pointing out that this request is simply ridiculous and favors ones personal tastes over the bigger picture that DE wants to tell. The community including myself has already provided the reasoning behind this story decision. That there is a rationale behind it and it fits perfectly. But the root of his and your argument is that you simply don't want to play teens because it hurts your power fantasy or somehow makes you personally feel less like an adult.

As seen here.

Quote

Nope sorry, that's a anime convention I an not a fan of an is used to help children identify with the main character to the story. And it's used ad naseum even to the point of being creepy, like Gunslinger Girl. This is a mature game and it's rated mature. I didn't sign up to play a kid, not in this game. And now I play with the reality that I'm a teen actually telepathically projecting my mind and acting out mass murder and wonton destruction with no conscious. And now i can teleport there and directly take part in the action. We could have stayed adult and have adult conversation and confront adult issues as we are doing VERY adult things.

4 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

I still don't see how that kids fits into everything else in the game. And to me personally it's a bit creepy to think that everything happening in the game is the results of a child's decision. Because I used to joke all the time that in reality the Warframes, and the Lotus, are just as vicious and evil as the Grineer or Corpus in alot of respects. It is truly an amoral and immoral solar system.

The game explores some of this with the Orokin and their regard for human life.
How children are treated/used/abused in society and throughout history, is a relevant theme in the story.
How children in those circumstances can grow up living in a world like that is a relevant story theme.
You can't explore them if you just make them energy beings/ghosts. 
Growing up is a major theme and you can't have that if you already a grown up.

You can be a teen and have adult conversations
 

4 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Because I used to joke all the time that in reality the Warframes, and the Lotus, are just as vicious and evil as the Grineer or Corpus in alot of respects. It is truly an amoral and immoral solar system.

They also explore a bit of this in the story. As we see not everyone agrees with Lotus and her relationship with the tenno.

 

6 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

So in actuality the excaliber we play isn't the first warframe, not even the first model, he is based on the original Excalibur Prime, The REAL first warframe.

The Orokin build a prototype that is mass produced. The Prime Frame is the refined and perfected version for those of higher status and/or skill
They say Excalibur was the first type of frame that was made & designed. Nothing in the story suggests that you are playing the first model ever made.
 

6 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

So the assumption was that the orokin, after discovering what happened to the tenno in the void, started trying to figure out ways to mass produce warframes, and had no qualms about using children, and were hiding that fact.

That is the assumption based on vague lore. Which is vague on purpose because they don't want to show all of their cards. Because the overall story and game is still a work in progress.
The tuth is that the Orokin tried to find conduits that the tennos energy could be refined and focused into. 
 

6 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

There is also the other issue that the original design concept had male and female variants, so more than likely the original idea was you picked one gender and you only got warframes of that gender, therefore creating a framework to have a singular being who just switched from suit to suit. It was this stupid simple fact that drive the majority of lore speculation, what scenario would allow you to switch between physically and gender specific beings but still retain a sense of individuality?

No, they just dropped the idea of sex variants because they found that limiting in creativity when designing frames. They actually take gender and sex into account when designing a new Warframe.
(although I will say that a female variant of Excalibur would be a nice option, yes i know that Nyx is the female excal model)
And decided that the Teenager Operator was a more interesting story avenue. They decided on it before they released the Beta. They said this themselves.

Much of what you think is based on vague lore. Which is vague on purpose because they don't want to reveal everything at once. 
As TWW had shown, we are getting new developments and revelations with each installation of the story. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Iccotak

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

2 hours ago, Iccotak said:

No he really did not. 
He said he would rather kill the child and be some form of energy being/ghost, halt or remove the story of growing up in order to satisfy their personal taste of feeling like a "BA killing machine/ninja" or to satisfy what their original notions of what the Tenno were.
It is a clear disregard of the story DE wants to tell because he doesn't want to play a teenage character.
He sees teenage characters solely as a trope to give teenagers a way to relate to the story when that is not entirely the case.
I point to again Evangelion as an extremely mature story dealing with death, depression, child soldiers, familial relationships, growing up, gender, sex, sexual orientation, etc.
 

Never said it was a personal attack. I am pointing out that this request is simply ridiculous and favors ones personal tastes over the bigger picture that DE wants to tell. The community including myself has already provided the reasoning behind this story decision. That there is a rationale behind it. But the root of his and your argument is that you simply don't want to play teens because it hurts your power fantasy or somehow makes you personally feel less like an adult.

As seen here.

The game explores some of this with the Orokin and their regard for human life.
How children are treated/used/abused in society and throughout history, is a relevant theme in the story.
How children in those circumstances can grow up living in a world like that is a relevant story theme.
You can't explore them if you just make them energy beings/ghosts. 
Growing up is a major theme and you can't have that if you already a grown up.

You can be a teen and have adult conversations
 

They also explore a bit of this in the story. As we see not everyone agrees with Lotus and her relationship with the tenno.

 

The Orokin build a prototype that is mass produced. The Prime Frame is the refined and perfected version for those of higher status and/or skill
They say Excalibur was the first type of frame that was made & designed. Nothing in the story suggests that you are playing the first model ever made.
 

That is the assumption based on vague lore. Which is vague on purpose because they don't want to show all of their cards. Because the overall story and game is still a work in progress.
The tuth is that the Orokin tried to find conduits that the tennos energy could be refined and focused into. 
 

No, they just dropped the idea of sex variants because they found that limiting in creativity when designing frames. They actually take gender and sex into account when designing a new Warframe.
(although I will say that a female variant of Excalibur would be a nice option, yes i know that Nyx is the female excal model)
And decided that the Teenager Operator was a more interesting story avenue. They decided on it before they released the Beta. They said this themselves.

Much of what you think is based on vague lore. Which is vague on purpose because they don't want to reveal everything at once. 
As TWW had shown, we are getting new developments and revelations with each installation of the story. 

This all sound like the same revisionist history George Lucas used to sell us on the huge plot shifts and continuity errors that embroiled Star Wars lore for years. And you may claim that they had this intention all along, but I know what I heard and read and saw, both by my own research into the lore and my own conversation with people in the game, that up until the moment they released Natah the core lore of the game was incomplete and quite possibly wasn't even fleshed out fully by the time they decided to make SD/TWW lore and mechanics change. No one mentioned that the devs were hinting at adding human figures to the game, let alone that they were children in any convo or speculative article I ever saw about explanations for the plot holes and possible direction. In fact they devs never gave any hints about what direction they were going which was the most infuriating thing about the lore speculation; the info was so sparse and meager that most people felt it was intentional, not because they had some grand plan but because they were so small and working so hard just to make the game playable that all lore consideration were essentially thrown to the corner and at some point they were going to have to go back and figure out how to explain all of this. Most player actually had the attitude that the game had no lore, that the only thing the devs really work on is gameplay and the lore is just filler cruft no one cares or even notices.

So I'm sorry when I look at the lore I see a clear demarcation between lore BEFORE Natah/Second Dream/The War Within updates and lore afterwards. This demarcation was not intentional or planned out but IMO was the result of the exact opposite, that when they decided to address the lore they realized just how much of a mess they made it, got the ADD development bug they seem to catch all the time and literally took off in a different direction.  Operators, Focus, all the newer Warframes, the Ostrons/Quills, POE have a clearly different flavor thematically and tonally from stuff previous to their introduction. And alot of other players have been chiming in agreeing that not only were operators not anticipated but they don't get why it's a thing in the game. And sadly the majority of players could not care one whit about the lore and don't care about how disjointed the operator and the warframes are from each other, all they play for is the repetitive grind and fashionframe.

And ultimately it's just my opinion, Operators, like POE, is a thing now and to play this game I have to account for it. So I don't advocate REMOVING operators, just allow me to play the character I want to play. While I have spent this whole time arguing the minutia about lore ever since Second Dream I have slowly drifted toward the camp of, I come here to play, I don't really care about the story it's dumb anyway, camp. I don't like the Story So Far anymore. I know for me that if the very real chance that DE drops warframes in favor of strictly using operators as your main character I will never play this game again. I don't agree that was proper direction to go with the story. And it seems I am not alone in that assessment.

 

[Iccotak]

3 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

You may claim that they had this intention all along, but I know what I heard and read and saw, both by my own research into the lore and my own conversation with people in the game

I know what I read and saw as well and I've been playing for the past 3 years.
Whatever you and your friends conclude in those conversations are speculative head fan cannon. You don't determine their story, they do.
Personally, when I looked back at the old lore it made a whole lot more sense now that I knew who the Operators were.

Also you can read interviews back in the 80's of George Lucas saying the stuff that we saw in the prequels.
Check out the book "The Secret History of Star Wars"
 

3 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

I come here to play, I don't really care about the story it's dumb anyway, camp. I don't like the Story So Far anymore. I know for me that if the very real chance that DE drops warframes in favor of strictly using operators as your main character I will never play this game again. I don't agree that was proper direction to go with the story. And it seems I am not alone in that assessment.

If you had complaints about the Operator combat mechanics I would understand. I find it disjointed and I don't think they belong in fights but rather in puzzles, social, and story. That was the point of this thread. To Offer ideas to make Operators more fun in other aspects of the game besides combat.
But you seem to not be giving DE a chance to tell their story simply because you hate teens. It seems that you think DE should just drop it because the story is not what you and others thought it was.
Just because you are not alone with your opinion does not make you right. Just because you don't like the story does not mean you get to determine or change it. 
You do not speak for all the players.
 

3 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

And sadly the majority of players could not care one whit about the lore and don't care about how disjointed the operator and the warframes are from each other, all they play for is the repetitive grind and fashionframe.

I could not disagree more with that statement. That may be the case for the majority of people that you interact with. But at the same time, the majority of people I interact with care about the story. Second Dream and TWW were huge deals to us. We love the stories that are being told with each new Frame.
 

Quote

 

got the ADD development bug they seem to catch all the time and literally took off in a different direction

In fact they devs never gave any hints about what direction they were going which was the most infuriating thing about the lore speculation; the info was so sparse and meager that most people felt it was intentional, not because they had some grand plan but because they were so small and working so hard just to make the game playable that all lore consideration were essentially thrown to the corner and at some point they were going to have to go back and figure out how to explain all of this. Most player actually had the attitude that the game had no lore, that the only thing the devs really work on is gameplay and the lore is just filler cruft no one cares or even notices.

 

This is why I say Warfame is still in Beta, because it is still fleshing out its features and story. They do have a story they wanted to tell, they do have a general plan, and they actually do have a writer on board working with them on this. BUT they had to go F2P in order to get the money to fund it and at the same time they have adjust their plan due to player feedback. To fix things and fill things in where they are missing.

The story is not some crutch that they ditched in the corner. They understood that they needed a functioning game before they could get anywhere, or do anything, with the story.

So they kept their cards close until they had a strong enough base & platform to tell it. There is so much more content and fleshing out that this game needs and it is simply not there yet.

Would you like them to just tell you everything that they have planned for the story? No surprises?

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Operators, Focus, all the newer Warframes, the Ostrons/Quills, POE have a clearly different flavor thematically and tonally from stuff previous to their introduction.

I know for me that if the very real chance that DE drops warframes in favor of strictly using operators as your main character I will never play this game again. 

1. They are expanding on Warframe so then it is not just a corridor shooter, because what we started with was a base, a shell, that is slowly being built upon to be a more complete experience. They know it can be more than than what they started with (which was the plan all along)
Personally I don't plan on hopping back into Warframe until this next summer so then I don't burn through Eidolon with nothing left to do.

2. This is an unfounded fear that you have greatly exaggerated. The game is called Warframe. Like Evangelion and their pilots, the warframes are just as important as the operators. 
 

Quote

So I don't advocate REMOVING operators, just allow me to play the character I want to play.

By letting you remove the Operator or make him an adult thereby remove the story from the experience.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Iccotak

[Iccotak]

22 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Oh no, it was AMAZING. Kept me at the edge of my seat and a tear in my eye. But not because of the kids, but because of LOGAN. I finally got to see the Wolverine Story I always wanted to. And you could have replaced those preteens and replaced them with 20 years olds and absolutely NOTHING would change, and it would still make sense. They just wanted to give Logan a Father/Daughter Parent/Child dynamic to humanize him. In fact I would say having them be adults would have given them more agency in the story, and the end scene would have been even more epic as Logan puts the mantle of wolverine on again, takes leadership (didn't he run an xmen squad in the comics?) and passes the torch to a new gen of Xmen.

I think this here speaks on your perception of children and how they are used in story telling. 
You seem to have this perspective that children only belong with young media and have no place in mature stories.

See Logan was also touches on the unethical treatment of children as things. Which is a real world problem. 
If you had made them adults it would have removed agency as that would have made them less vunerable and more capable. 
I was scared for them because I understood that although they were mutants they were still children and therefore at a disadvantage mentally and physically. The adults could still effectively chase them down and the mutants were not combat ready at all.
It would have changed everything. As one of the major points of the film was to make Logan isolated and alone. The last natural mutant. 
He fought not so then the kids could become the next x-men (although that is a possibility) he fought so then they could grow up with better lives.

But point being whether you are a child, teen, or adult effects the story and can be used as a tool in mature storytelling. We all live in the same world and real world issues affect everyone, its not like kids and teens live in their own separate universe where they are safe. Teens are in a unique position because that is the transition from child to adult. Taking on responsibilities and accepting ones own mistakes and flaws.
In Warframe we see the Operators being forced through adulthood because they have no choice in this chaotic solar system that they are fighting to better. They fight to rectify the consequences of their mistakes and the Orokins'. While at the same time struggling with their own humanity and morals. The Zariman Ten-Zero being a source of regret and PTSD with what they saw people do to each other.

[RistN]

On 18.12.2017. at 4:37 AM, Iccotak said:

Warframes can be more combat focused while the Operators can be for puzzles, finding lore, story exploration, that not only act as optional activities with rewards but also necessary steps that further the progress in specific levels and maps.

To be honest I don't like this.Operators have become a very good addition to warframes arsenal.You get benefits from them now which can be useful in high level missions also.They have lots of support skills,movement is a lot better and they have changed our playstile in positive way.

Course for them has been set,a lot of work has been done and I don't see DE going back to drawing board and changing their purpose completely.

I would rather have this what we have now than some boring mini games.

[Gamma745]

28 minutes ago, RistN said:

To be honest I don't like this.Operators have become a very good addition to warframes arsenal.You get benefits from them now which can be useful in high level missions also.They have lots of support skills,movement is a lot better and they have changed our playstile in positive way.

Course for them has been set,a lot of work has been done and I don't see DE going back to drawing board and changing their purpose completely.

I would rather have this what we have now than some boring mini games.

Well, how about in addition to what we have, there are some puzzle maps/tileset that utilizes operator abilities? Using Void dash or Void mode to traverse to some area that are hazardous for the Warframe.

Maybe it can be in the next plains, or maybe a new tileset in Lua. Perhaps it could award a decent amount of Focus, or maybe a Focus lens.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Gamma745

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

57 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

I could not disagree more with that statement. That may be the case for the majority of people that you interact with. But at the same time, the majority of people I interact with care about the story. Second Dream and TWW were huge deals to us. We love the stories that are being told with each new Frame.

And listen, if you find the story of the the Operators and Transferrence, and Lua and Natah/Lotus to be great stories, good for you. If you and the friends you played with actually got invested because you loved the idea of being children coerced into being soldiers of fortune, then more power to you. If you read what I have said I never said the story was bad or I thought that anyone who actually liked the operators were stupid or not true or hardcore fans of the game. Nor did I say that DE makes crap stories or the game is garbage because of the updated lore. I voiced my opinion based upon my perception of the game when I joined on steam over 2 years ago and the ongoing discussion about the game I have had since then. I used to be one of the few people who would try and generate a talk about possible lore and trying to get an idea of what other people's perception of the game's background story was. And back before Samaris/Natah/Second Dream most people concluded that DE might never make a cohesive lore or canon to the game, many were convinced that DE had no real intent or desire to do so. That's why I can be confident in my assertion that not only was operators unexpected, but that DE had no real hint that was the direction they were going.

And another thing. I don't have a problem with children or teenagers featured as main characters in stories. I have followed of Sci Fi, and I enjoyed NGE; I think Ender's Game is one of the classics, I grew up reading The Crystal Singers Saga and thought it was amazing. There is a place for that type of storytelling and when set up that way it can be an engaging and amazing experience. In my opinion there was never a HINT that this was really a YA/Children story. I don't feel that thematically and tonally the overall story is served better by making the tenno young teens. I wanted to play an adult game with adults doing adult things. I feel this game is too mature and the setting too dark and dismal to have children be in the heart and the focus of events going on. And that's on top of having human figures as playable characters. I have had an absolutely blast playing warframes and most people have and I never contemplated an idea that having an alternate human like playable character was a preferable alternative to being a superpowered futuristic combat cyborg.

57 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

This is why I say Warfame is still in Beta, because it is still fleshing out its features and story. They do have a story they wanted to tell, they do have a general plan, and they actually do have a writer on board working with them on this. BUT they had to go F2P in order to get the money to fund it and at the same time they have adjust their plan due to player feedback. To fix things and fill things in where they are missing.

The story is not some crutch that they ditched in the corner. They understood that they needed a functioning game before they could get anywhere, or do anything, with the story.

So they kept their cards close until they had a strong enough base & platform to tell it. There is so much more content and fleshing out that this game needs and it is simply not there yet.

Would you like them to just tell you everything that they have planned for the story? No surprises?

And no offense dude you are buying the hype DE talks with every release of content. I have not only played this game long enough but have played enough games in general; and see enough stories and games unfold and be developed, to see something different than you do. You wanna believe DE has some master plan and roadmap to the future of the game, look at the all the updates since the release of "Beta" and try to imagine how that was all planned ahead. And they were never truly in beta, they have adopted a different paradigm in game design which isn't quite formalized but basically they practiced continuous development, the game is never truly finished. Essentially, rather than focusing on the core aspects of the game and continually updating and revamping existing content, they merely release new content or mechanics to supersede or supplant any deficiency that gets exposed. So instead of fixing the old melee system they scrapped the whole thing and replaced it with something new that required new mods, new weapons to be effective. Parkour 2.0, Archwing, Raids, sorties, Syndicates, Rivens, Arcanes, this was all developed on the fly and post release, there was never any game plan, the idea is to keep making new things and fixing what people like and what works. Because people can't understand that concept, and want to have those distinctions like beta or gold or final release, it's just easier to classify the game as beta to justify any radical change or addition to the game. These are milestones that have no relevance to the programmers at DE, So this is the current product as it exists, it will radically change as it goes on.  I challenge you to find a screenshot or video of the game 3 years ago and try to tell me the game isn't completely different and hasn't changed dramatically, there's no possible way the original idea they had for the game is what we are playing today.

I mean really man they could have written up a story all that time ago and given us a hint of things to come, it wouldn't have spoiled anything for anyone. So you're not going to convince me there is some master plan or they meant for this all along.

[Iccotak]

10 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

In my opinion there was never a HINT that this was really a YA/Children story. I don't feel that thematically and tonally the overall story is served better by making the tenno young teens. I wanted to play an adult game with adults doing adult things.

This is what I am talking about. Because they are teens that must make it a YA story. Again you can have teens and tell an adult story. Just because you play a teen does not make this a childrens story and it is not for kids. (check out the anime "Now and Then, Here and There" truly dark stuff)
 

10 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

I used to be one of the few people who would try and generate a talk about possible lore and trying to get an idea of what other people's perception of the game's background story was. And back before Samaris/Natah/Second Dream most people concluded that DE might never make a cohesive lore or canon to the game, many were convinced that DE had no real intent or desire to do so. That's why I can be confident in my assertion that not only was operators unexpected, but that DE had no real hint that was the direction they were going.

This is an assumption you made on a game that didn't really have much to it at the the time (and still doesn't when compared to other major online AAA games)
You are making conclusions based on little knowledge. People have already pointed out how you get these ideas from very little to no information and that you simply already had your own head cannon of what things were.
Which brings me to my next point.

 

10 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

And no offense dude you are buying the hype DE talks with every release of content. I have not only played this game long enough but have played enough games in general; and see enough stories and games unfold and be developed, to see something different than you do. You wanna believe DE has some master plan and roadmap to the future of the game, look at the all the updates since the release of "Beta" and try to imagine how that was all planned ahead. And they were never truly in beta, they have adopted a different paradigm in game design which isn't quite formalized but basically they practiced continuous development, the game is never truly finished.

This is a F2P game. Its development is simply going to take longer than a AAA title. That is fact.
(I also have been playing games for a while and, if you want to make it a contest, I have been playing Warframe longer than you .)
DE has a history of being transparent and open with its audience, so when they say that they had general ideas and plans they wanted to execute then yes I believe them.
I also understand that they don't want to reveal everything they want to do in terms of story and gameplay mechanics. So they keep some cards close to the chest.
I also take into account that they also use "BETA" as way of allowing them to experiment. If this were a AAA title they would not need to experiment and try new things, but since this is a F2P title they have to do that in order to make overhauls or radical changes where they need to.
 

10 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

I challenge you to find a screenshot or video of the game 3 years ago and try to tell me the game isn't completely different and hasn't changed dramatically, there's no possible way the original idea they had for the game is what we are playing today.

Do you know why it has changed so radically? Because they launched with a Barebones beta game. I was there. It has only gained real traction within the last two years.
Eidolon is new, they are on record saying they did not originally imagine putting in open zones. But the Operator story was an old idea and derived from anime, as much of the game
is.
IMO, for a Looter Game the open zone is a good idea. Its good to mix up the dungeon crawling. Look at Diablo, Titan Quest, and/or Borderlnads, they have open areas you can explore dotted with dungeons to run. It makes it a more immersive world.

 

10 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

I mean really man they could have written up a story all that time ago and given us a hint of things to come, it wouldn't have spoiled anything for anyone. So you're not going to convince me there is some master plan or they meant for this all along.

People have already pointed out the hints and details to you. People already pointed out why the lore was so vague. You don't put a story in a barebones game. If your game does not support the mechanics or have the money to go about telling an epic then you wait later down the line to tell it. So they focused on mechanics and implementing features in where they were missing.
Alot of what we have now is placeholder.
 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Iccotak

[Iccotak]

11 hours ago, RistN said:

To be honest I don't like this.Operators have become a very good addition to warframes arsenal.You get benefits from them now which can be useful in high level missions also.They have lots of support skills,movement is a lot better and they have changed our playstile in positive way.

Course for them has been set,a lot of work has been done and I don't see DE going back to drawing board and changing their purpose completely.

I would rather have this what we have now than some boring mini games.

This is just my own opinion that I know will never happen. Operators are part of combat now and there is no taking it back.

But I do think there are other things that Operators would be great for; like puzzles we saw in TWW. 
They would be a great asset for exploring the lore of the game.

Like @Gamma745 suggested, maybe put areas on Lua that can only be accessed by Operators. Maybe add to those puzzles on Lua with Operator centered challenges.
 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Iccotak

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

I can't explain it better than this, watch this video and tell me this doesn't look more like what DE is doing, and if you understand how this paradigm work, you realize this can't work with any type of planning: