[DELAYED] Damage 2.5 Part 1: Physical Damage

[Vali]

With the changes to slash, I want to bring up two major questions:

1. How will forced slash procs from melee stances and Hunter Munitions be calculated? Many of these weapons have low to no slash damage at all, and would pretty much make many of these weapons a lot weaker. My suggestion would be to allow these instances of slash procs to use the older formula.

2. How will slash damage be calculated? The previous formula used 35% of your base damage. Will this value be increased to adjust to the lower slash values? 

I believe answering these two questions will help calm down the initial outrage from the stated changes to slash. 

[SSI_Seraph]

Puncture: who cares about reducing the damage of something that will die in one shot or 3 and even 99% Damage output reduction won't save you against high level enemies.

Impact: Sorry but ragdolling ennemies all over the place is not CC, it's a nuisance at best

Slash: "not total damage" aka narrow down the viable options even more since the two other procs are still not worth it. 

[Trichouette]

il y a 20 minutes, [DE]Connor a dit :

Slash has long been considered the most powerful of these effects, primarily because Slash procs stack on top of one another and scale with weapon damage

And as always you guys are forgeting the most important thing in the whole game, ARMOR.

Slash is strong because bleeding stacks and bypass armor. You still don't realize that players hate armor and that's why we're all playing corrosive projection & slash proc.

il y a 20 minutes, [DE]Connor a dit :

Puncture can be used to minimize enemy lethality for frames with less survivability.

Other things you forgot about this game, there is rarely a single target threatening the objective/our survivability, and 75% at very high level won't help much.

Yeah sure this corpus tech will deal 75% less damage, but he has a supra... We'll barely longer... Or get killed by another corpus tech that we didn't see yet.

 

Looks like you guys want to do good, but I still don't see why anyone would play anything else than slash.

Why would I bother lowering this enemy's damage or knock him down if I can just kill it or CC it with an ability that does the job a billion time better ?

 

I wonder how things like this V will work though

[CorruptedKrow]

i really want them to make hunter munitions work like it does now, i love the amprex with it and i don't want that to stop 

[Kinetos]

How will this affect Hunter Munitions on elemental Primaries or Vulkar Wraith which only has Impact and Puncture? 

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

Errrr... This doesn't quite say what the procs will do in the examples like Impact. The examples are just examples, but without specifics the examples fall flat. I can stun enemies with impact weapons? I could do that before. Level entire rooms with a Strun? But isn't impact a stun/stagger and not damage? It's not like it improves your damage, well, not that we know of, so what does "Level entire rooms" mean when the Strun will be just a strong but only the proc is changing... which we don't really know how with this thread!

 

It's nice to know your intentions, but without the specifics some cases just doesn't really change in any way with the examples that were given (if anything the only thing changing majorly is slash being weaker in short term, that's the actual specific that we got and that directly points at results).

 

 

To also note that the change for impact show in the devstream is a low key nerf to weapons like the Vulkar. Vulkar has innate stagger, so it doesn't really benefit from Impact procs. Being an impact weapon what will happen is that the Vulkar instead of staggering to allow you to deal a follow up shot without being shot back it will kick the enemy away, saving the enemy instead by making it harder to kill them as their weak point won't be exposed anymore and they will be away from the scope center forcing you to move the aim a lot more if the target is still in LoS.

[Naftal]

5 minutes ago, SSI_Seraph said:

justifying two bad options by nerfing the good one;..

How do you buff the two bad options to be as good as death?

[(PSN)Quo_Tee]

Just now, SSI_Seraph said:

Puncture: who cares about reducing the damage of something that will die oneshot or 3 and even 99% Damage output reduction won't save you against high level enemies.

Impact: Sorry but ragdolling ennemies all over the place is not CC, it's a nuisance at best

Slash: "not total damage" aka narrow down the viable options even more since the two other procs are still not worth it. 

This.

[S41CO]

21 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Slash will continue working as it does now, stacking multiple status effects on top of one another.

good good, dont want my tenora to die just yet xd

 

[tarfeef101]

4 minutes ago, H8RAID said:

I'm not crazy about rag-dolling enemies.  The stagger is fine.  Perhaps the stagger effect can be refreshed/prolonged and DE could add diminishing dexterity that would effect enemy's accuracy or something along those lines. 

totally agree. Especially with snipers which would be the most likely to ragdoll, if I don't kill them for some reason I want to be able to put my next shot in right away. Not wait for them to amble back up and give me a clean shot

[JeyciKon]

13 minutes ago, Naftal said:

Ok so slash will still be overpowered and impact and puncture are really bad compared to it?

Why?

if you read again, you will read that slash gets nerfed:

 

22 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

a Slash proc would scale based on the weapon’s total base damage output. Now, all procs will be calculated using ONLY the damage type of the proc that is being inflicted

 

[Naftal]

Just now, JeyciKon said:

if you read again, you will read that slash gets nerfed:

 

 

I did read it. I'm saying that it will still be overpowered compared the two.

[gnat6]

So impact now blasts enemies out of the line of fire making them take longer to kill puncture is still useless because it's not the enemy that I am shooting at that is going to kill me it's the other 10 that are standing next to it and slash damage is getting nerfed on most weapons.

An explanation on how Hunter Munitions is going to work now would also be useful since the slash changes completely kill it.

Since DE seems to keep missing the point slash will always be king because death is always the ultimate debuff. 

[SSI_Seraph]

il y a 7 minutes, Naftal a dit :

How do you buff the two bad options to be as good as death?

A suggestion I saw a lot for puncture was that it would create banshee like spots that deal more damage and stack the more you proc with a cap making it the go to with with 4 cps and infested for example.

for impact, it can stay CC but it needs to be an actual good one not ragdolling all over the place. A suggestion I saw was knoking out enemies for x seconds if you reproc it enough.  

[(PSN)Quo_Tee]

1 minute ago, JeyciKon said:

if you read again, you will read that slash gets nerfed:

 

 

Slash procs right now take into account 35% of the weapon's total damage, we don't know yet if slash procs will do 35% of the weapon's total slash damage or if it will do much more.

This might be a nerf to slash damage or a huge buff to certain weapons and a nerf to others, we won't know until the update is out.

[WolfTitan]

17 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

We are also making a change in how a proc’s associated damage output is calculated - before, a Slash proc would scale based on the weapon’s total base damage output. Now, all procs will be calculated using ONLY the damage type of the proc that is being inflicted.

We all love nerfs, don't we? Don't be afraid to directly call it a nerf. 

Also, in almost all cases, ragdolling is absolutely the worst because it becomes more difficult to kill the ragdoll. If we wanted true CC, we would bring a CC frame instead.

[Achromatic.]

So what about elemental-only melees that get IPS procs from their stances? Are they just seriously downgraded for no reason?

[DrBorris]

Please just say Hunter Munitions is getting special treatment as to not be useless on, well, just about everything it is useful on.

 

Edit: Also, there is a massive problem with Puncture. Puncture decreases the damage enemies do by a max of 75%, but Impact, even at its lowest proc state, is guaranteed reducing the damage an enemy can do by 100%. Puncture is objectively worse than Impact now.

 

Edit2: How about having Puncture increase the amount of damage an enemy takes? So if you inflict a puncture proc the enemy will take 10%-75% more damage from all sources. This would give it a seperate niche from Slash and Impact rather than overlapping.

[Ubarruk]

Wouldnt an organic way to deal with imbalance be to give more things % reductions, and have what the enemies are resistant/weak/vulnerable to interact with the % reduction? If something were resistant to slash(100% of relative reduction) weak (50%of reduction?) to puncture and vulnerable to (0% of reduction) impact, and had 50% damage reduction, theyed take  50% of the weapons slash, 75% of its puncture, and 100% of its impact.

That would mean if something had 99% DR, and were vulnerable to your puncture, and you had 1000 puncture, theyed still take 1000 puncture, which would always make your choice of what you bring important, make corrosive matter less, because why reduce what you can bypass, and then we'd just have to nerf virals proc 

(the relative DR's would extend to elements too, but HOPEFULLY ive communicated this well)

SO in closing: Resistant to: 100% of DR, Weak to: 50% of DR, and Vulnerable to: 0% of DR. in this case.

[ZyloWolfzan]

26 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

We are also making a change in how a proc’s associated damage output is calculated - before, a Slash proc would scale based on the weapon’s total base damage output. Now, all procs will be calculated using ONLY the damage type of the proc that is being inflicted. Players may feel encouraged to focus their weapon builds around certain damage types in order to consistently inflict powerful procs, or go for raw damage across several damage types to inflict multiple procs at once!

PLEASE keep in mind special exceptions to Slash! Mods like Hunter's Munitions, and status procs caused by melee weapon stances and the like given to weapons THAT HAVE NO INNATE IPS DAMAGE will suffer if this is universal! Procs from stances, Hunter's Munitions, etc. should scale on the TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE to make sure that they remain useful across the board, instead of ONLY being useful for Slash-based weapons! The same should go for Impact/Puncture procs caused by Stances as well of course.

[DoctorPelusa]

Ragdolling could be great if enemies took damage from the fall, Having to walk 100m on the plains to kill an enemy isn't great...

[FreezerFlare]

"Slash works the same as it ever did, stacking bleed damage over time to make short work of enemies. Your 100% status Tigris Prime will still eviscerate single targets with multiple procs, while something like a Galatine will still inflict more serious singular procs in a wider area - ‘tis but a scratch" - GOOD

"Slash will continue working as it does now, stacking multiple status effects on top of one another" - GOOD

"before, a Slash proc would scale based on the weapon’s total base damage output. Now, all procs will be calculated using ONLY the damage type of the proc that is being inflicted". - BAD

 

[AnarchyChan]

Puncture reducing damage? srsly? what a waste

[Synpai]

These changes really just push already meta weapons even harder into the Meta and removes a few niche weapon options.

I guess we get to see how strong these impact procs on scythe combos are.

[Thundervision]

34 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Puncture procs will now scale in effectiveness from 10% to 75% damage reduction, based on the damage dealt at the time of proc. Slash will continue working as it does now, stacking multiple status effects on top of one another.

 

34 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Puncture can be used to minimize enemy lethality for frames with less survivability. Using high status puncture melees like Boltace or Endura, go blow-for-blow with Butchers and Powerfists without breaking a sweat. And if your Lex Prime can’t oneshot the Heavy Gunner rumbling towards your defense point, the enemy’s damage will be diminished long enough to safely deal the finishing blow.

On T1-T2 star chart? I'm sorry, guys, but it seems you ignored any valid reason to not make the Puncture this way.

 

ELI5: how exactly the Puncture 2.5 is going to help me to kill enemies faster as well as deal with enemies (like the ones below and their Eximus versions with a lot more EHP and damage) WHILE ALSO GETTING PUNCTURE PROCCED past Lv.40?

The Corpus:

• Corpus Tech
• Corpus Sniper
• Scrambus and Comba
• Bursa

Arid/Drekar/Tusk/Kuva Grineer:

• Ballista
• Scorch
• Napalm
• Bombard
• Heavy Gunner past Lv.40
• Seeker
• Trooper
• Hyekka Master
• Eviscerator

Basically, 90% of the entire faction (on top of how good they are at inflicting Slash and Puncture procs on you, yep).