Loki Need A Buff

[Wendigo]

Just want to apologize for the Google translator, will try to write all the short and convey key messages to not cause confusion

I think Loki is required total processing talent. Compared with other Warframes is too weak.

Here's the idea:

1. Make a hologram invulnerable by reducing the duration, it's a hologram, not a physical object. You can add an image overlay Loki on the enemy, to be attacked by their allies.

2. Invisibility to hide the keeper, because enemies often attack the guards and beat you.

3. In applying the transposition of the enemies start to attack on whom it was applied for 2 seconds.

4. Disarm is a small stun. You can add a fixed damage of clubs for all levels of opponents of the shooters or they become infected.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Wendigo

[inthephonebox]

No offense dude, but this has to be the funniest thing I've read in a while! 

"Loki is required total processing talent" LOLOLOLOLOL!

 

But seriously, from what little I could make out of goggle's horrible butchering of our language (I do not blame you at all, nice try!) I would have to agree that at least Loki's invisibility should cover the sentinel as well. I'm even using a shade and countless times I go invisible to sneak past an enemy or get a better angle and they see my sentinel and all hell breaks loose. 

Other than that I like Loki is fine. 

[Wendigo]

No offense dude, but this has to be the funniest thing I've read in a while! 

"Loki is required total processing talent" LOLOLOLOLOL!

 

I'm sorry, perhaps more correctly be "skill"  :)

Edited August 2, 2013 by Wendigo

[JEmmaB]

Agreed the Loki warframe needs some attention.

 

Invisibility indeed needs to cover the sentinel, but the other traits/skills are fine IMO.

 

Loki is not build as a tank and can barely solo higher levels because of its design. :-) 

[Paradoxbomb]

I actually agree with this really, I normally don't complain about Loki's abilities, but I have to admit they don't really scale too well (especially now with update 9)and these tweaks would ultimately enhance his skills without having to give him a major overhaul.

 

1) I think it'd be perfectly fair to restore the decoy's invulnerability in exchange for a little less duration; after all, there are other, better, and indestrucable CC abilities already, so I don't think Loki's decoy would be a game breaker.

2)Yes, invisibility must cloak the sentinel, it's a liability to have one at present since it gives you away.

3)A brief period where enemies attack someone you switch places with would be nice to give you time to recuperate or dealing a tiny bit of damage to a heavy target

4) Even with stun batons, enemy untis can still two hit you, which is unfortunate since you usually have to stand in the center of them to disarm them in the first place. Either making them deal minimal damage or at least reducing their armor/shields as well would be a nice addition to radial disarm.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Paradoxbomb

[Troublechutor]

Agreed the Loki warframe needs some attention.

 

Invisibility indeed needs to cover the sentinel, but the other traits/skills are fine IMO.

 

Loki is not build as a tank and can barely solo higher levels because of its design. :-) 

Loki is unkillable... try again.

 

Loki doesn't need a sentinel... its a luxury item.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Troublechutor

[--H--Highperius]

Loki is unkillable... try again.

 

Loki doesn't need a sentinel... its a luxury item.

You obviously just watched a loki on youtube or something.

Loki does NOT get invincible with getting invisible. 

I often die just after I cast invis.

Other than that, a visible sentinel brings a lot of negative things while you run invis

1. Sentinel dies pretty fast, because he drags all the fire (since decoy does not last for 3 seconds)

2. Sentinel triggers AoE knockbacks from Heavy Grineer Units once you get near to pull off your melee dmg bonus.

3. AoE dmg towards the sentinel is damaging Loki aswell (Bombard or Flamethrower heavy units)

4. Ancients that hit your sentinel can clear your energy pool.

And as soon as Loki goes visible without energy left, you are seriously f*cked.

My main problem is, that Loki MUST run invisible and has no other skills that can save him when S#&$ goes serious.

Like the decoy lasts for 2-3 seconds or the radial disarm just causes enemies to gang you (some enemies won't stagger and hit you with great dmg)

I've played Loki like forever, one can simply say I suck at Loki. But I now where all the older Warframes get some attention, I'm asking to give Loki a treatment finally. 

Because it is just a shame that I can't play Loki in a team properly, because the decoy does not last long enough and I'm running invisible permanently (else I'll die pretty damn fast)

Loki right now, does not have any party value. I'm playing him nontheless, but I have to admit that nearly everything is easier with other WFs

unless I'm just running through the enemies and don't fight them.

(Sorry for the bad english!)

Edited August 2, 2013 by Jamukha

[Makaveli61]

A luxury item for Loki?

[XCodes]

Decoy being invulnerable is something I support.  Skill is too unreliable on higher-level missions.

For Invisiblity, I just want, at a minimum, an option to get rid of the audio and visual filters.  I like where it's at mechanically, but it's more distracting than immersive for me.

For Switch Teleport, it's super niche and I'm OK with that.  I'm hesitant to have any kind of practical application applied to it since it might justify those dumb noob Loki's that switch teleport bosses around for no reason.

For Radial Disarm, I'd prefer the enemies just not hit as hard with those provas.  If I can't hit that hard with one, I don't see why they should be allowed to.

Also, I want Loki to get a small durability buff.  Having 100 base shields instead of 75 will go a long way towards helping Loki out when energy drops suck.

[Troublechutor]

-snip-

I've played Loki like forever, one can simply say I suck at Loki. 

-snip-

(Sorry for the bad english!)

Your english is fine.

 

Based on what you've said, I'm going to say you're just doing it wrong.  I wouldn't say someone "sucks" just because they don't have enough experience to make something work... I ONLY play loki, so I have a particular perspective on it.

 

Also, this is like the 100th Loki-fix thread and I'm getting pretty fkn tired of repeating myself.  No offense, but could you please read one of the other threads that already addresses all these points first?

 

So, here is the short-short-short version.

First : http://www.youtube.com/user/Troublechutor'>My youtube channel : I have a hard time finding (good) loki play on youtube, so I started uploading some to help out a bit.  If you have some loki vids from recent patches, please point me to them.  

 

Sentinels : Don't use them with loki unless you understand how aggro management works.  Yes, when invis your sentinel can/will draw aggro, this is a tool... use it to your advantage or don't equip them.  You honestly don't need them, so why equip it if its getting you killed?

 

Invis is god mode... unless you have a sentinel... then its still god mode unless you were going invis with low health trying to escape.... then it was a bad idea to bring a sentinel. ;)

 

Ancients don't target sentinels.  NO infested target sentinels. (edit: J3 and Phorid will aggro on them I think) You're going invis too late.

 

If you pop out of invis with no energy left, IN VISION OF THE ENEMY, you're doing it all the way wrong. Why the hell would you do that to yourself?

 

Loki may not have any party value, but really NO frame has any party value... 4 warframes played by skilled players will sleepwalk through every mission out there.  What you are experiencing is leader-board envy... not lack of usefulness.  Think about it, nuke frames don't add party value... they are interchangeable nukes for the most part... the only frame I would constantly call "special" is the rhino, because its the only frame I can expect to be able to revive me if I ever make a mistake and go down.

 

The point being that the game isn't hard for anyone using any frame in the game in team play.  If you want to feel like a special-loki-snowflake, scout ahead, radial dsiarm large groups or heavies and keep moving... you will speed up the run for the team and save them energy for when it's needed. There, now you're everyone's favorite team member because you don't steal kills, your speed is used for scouting rather than rushing, and you never die. (leave your sentinel at home)

Edited August 2, 2013 by Troublechutor

[Troublechutor]

A luxury item for Loki?

Name one thing that Loki needs a sentinel for?

[Chronodroid]

For the sake of Invisibility, check this too:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/89735-loki-2-skill-invisibility-please-remove-reduced-sound/

[GeneralArmchair]

Name one thing that Loki needs a sentinel for?

Name one reasons loki shouldn't have sentinels while everyone else has one.

[Troublechutor]

Name one reasons loki shouldn't have sentinels while everyone else has one.

Poorly defined response.  The key disparity here is "should" vs. "has."

 

I have 2 maxed sentinels, and I use them frequently (most of the time in fact) and I get excellent mileage out of my dethcube by using it to pull aggro off my hostage during rescue, and off the pod/artifact in defense while I invis.  I don't need them though, except in that exact situation... so in a level where I'm planning on moving fast and being invis, I shouldn't take them because that's stupid.

 

Anyone is free to play anyway they like within the parameters of the game as it's presented to them.  If you want to run sentinels all the time, nothing is stopping you, just accept that they don't go invis and move on...  Or come to the forums and complain about it endlessly (because it's been done for as long as I've been here to no avail) and never get better at the game.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Troublechutor

[Hayden11121]

I agree with the Switch Teleport notion.

 

These would be small fixes, btw, not a buff.

 

Like in the Lech Kril video, Loki Switch Teleports a few grunts when Lech Kril swings at him, basically "Friendly Firing" on the grunts, accidently killing them.

 

Logically it would make sense, and trollwise it would put him back on top of trolling instead of Vauban (;

[BloodRiot]

To be fair, in my experience with Loki he's pretty good as is minus a few small hiccups. He has 3 skills that are enemy level independant. The switch teleport, the invisibility and the Radial Disarm. The invisibility will suffer diminishing returns on it's damage component but the invisibility itself remains useful at all levels. The damage part will scale as good as you melee weapon.

 

I think the only 2 things that need fixing is a way to make the decoy a bit more useful on higher level missions and not jsut a waste of energy. And invisibility needsto hide the sentinel. Apart from that he's pretty good for what he does.

[XCodes]

To be fair, in my experience with Loki he's pretty good as is minus a few small hiccups. He has 3 skills that are enemy level independant. The switch teleport, the invisibility and the Radial Disarm. The invisibility will suffer diminishing returns on it's damage component but the invisibility itself remains useful at all levels. The damage part will scale as good as you melee weapon.

 

I think the only 2 things that need fixing is a way to make the decoy a bit more useful on higher level missions and not jsut a waste of energy. And invisibility needsto hide the sentinel. Apart from that he's pretty good for what he does.

This is kind of one of Loki's problems: Melee weapons are S#&$.  Once Melee is better, this issue resolves itself.  That said, there are still issues with Loki himself such as Decoy (which also has diminishing returns w.r.t. enemy level, since higher-level enemies kill the decoy much faster) and Radial Disarm.

[Hayden11121]

This is kind of one of Loki's problems: Melee weapons are S#&$.  Once Melee is better, this issue resolves itself.  That said, there are still issues with Loki himself such as Decoy (which also has diminishing returns w.r.t. enemy level, since higher-level enemies kill the decoy much faster) and Radial Disarm.

That is a huge problem...

My favorite class is Loki, but once I got Ogris I had no reason to get close to enemies.. so I felt kind of lackluster. but more efficient.

[XCodes]

Everyone feels more efficient with an Ogris, Torid, and/or Acrid. Those guns have stupid amazing ammo economy and damage output and need to get nerfed.

[c_man_ninja_gun]

Loki is fine.

[Hayden11121]

Loki is fine.

Your comment makes our eyes clear now. Thanks for your eye opening feedback! So much detail!

[skorge]

one should be able to do switch teleport kill combos like STing someone into qn abyss or enemy friendly fire.

[fatpig84]

Everyone feels more efficient with an Ogris, Torid, and/or Acrid. Those guns have stupid amazing ammo economy and damage output and need to get nerfed.

 

No.

 

And also Torid is amazing with loki on infested def, just need to a put decoy on a box and gas it.

Edited August 3, 2013 by fatpig84

[XCodes]

No.

 

And also Torid is amazing with loki on infested def, just need to a put decoy on a box and gas it.

You don't think these guns have stupid amazing ammo economy and damage output?  If, instead of having 540 max ammo and using Rifle ammo pickups they instead had 40 max ammo and only got a rare +5 ammo pickup, then maybe I'd be more agreeable, but the way they are now is just ludicrous.

[IcarusNine]

...is required total processing talent.

This will be entering my vocabulary.