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Improving the New Player Experience


DeckardPain
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6 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I'm afraid that decent amount of players jumping here with little bit a selfish mention: "I played so many games, it's F2P nothing can surprise me" and overlooked this: https://www.warframe.com/game/quickstart

This is great and all, but why not write that into an in-game help section in the codex that the newbies are pointed to via the tutorial so that they'll actually find it?

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ahhh, just another day in warframe forum where some people gave DE idea. in this case to make newbie easier to grasp the game mechanic, which means they could stay longer and expand the playerbase while the other side is... well, the usual "DE did nothing wrong"

Edited by tomoebi
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That's how it always is. There's even the requisite mention of "hand holding" implying that it's somehow weak/lame/childish/"care bear" to offer new players a smooth entry into the game with appropriate explanations of some of the less obvious gameplay mechanics. 

Edited by Ham_Grenabe
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On 2/11/2018 at 11:05 PM, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

Well the YouTube channel Jim Sterling has said he would start talking about problems warframe has and his first video on the issues was directly responsible (as stated by multiple de staff members) for the seperation of Prime Access accessories and regularl prime access for unvaulted primes so if he talks about the new player experience then maybe we'll get that change. 

It's sad though that we'd have to rely on a YouTuber for that. In any case Thank God for Jim @(*()$ Sterling.

Exactly, in the video Sterling praises DE for responding so quickly to him, but in reality Rebecca's states it was over two years of community feedback prior to his criticism. That's two years DE didn't respond to the community at large without a response until a YouTube channel with credibility basically threatened their product. This shouldn't have been seen as a "positive" in my eyes, that's two years of players being ignored.

Edited by komoriblues
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13 hours ago, Tyrian3k said:

This is great and all, but why not write that into an in-game help section in the codex that the newbies are pointed to via the tutorial so that they'll actually find it?

U can check it without Dowloading the game. And now little bit about this problem. I can write the book about that but I extracted most important things for me. This game still have rating M, which means not only Gore and Violence but 17+, so I'm expecting more or less experienced players using their brain more often.But when I look around thru Forums and see all those crybabies this game is more and more kindergarden, especially after PoE update, just my thought.  F2P doesn't mean it's for everyone and we can also using this terminology to a gameplay where this game give u absolutely freedom and I'm afraid than more specific tutorials will harm it because they will put borders and push the player for specific gameplay. Quests and Farming specific Frames also give u experience, just few: Ivara- Spy, Atlas+Nidus- JV :sadcry:,  Harrow-Defection. Lotus gives u very important info but nobody listen. Clan, Chats for in-game Communication, this is a general problem for me lack of Communication, polite especially, on both sides, of course. While Newbies are shy or afraid to ask (Region Chat: no need to comment), Noobs with mention "I'm master of WF I never was Newbie" blaming them for trivial mistakes. Is it really hard to type in mission something like: O2 Turret gives u 30% O2, activate him around 50%, well probably "GTFO" is easier to type.

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22 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I'm afraid that decent amount of players jumping here with little bit a selfish mention: "I played so many games, it's F2P nothing can surprise me" and overlooked this: https://www.warframe.com/game/quickstart

I did not know this exists. Explain to me where it is on the site? I do not see it.

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For something having such importance, it would be smart to have it visible from the beginning yes? Buried in menus tho instead! Strange tho the PLAY FREE NOW, prime access, prime vault, and platinum links are here on the front page so easy to find, tho information of how to play the game is not. The design of the site needs new consideration I think.

Edited by Zookes
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21 hours ago, Flames21891 said:

How many games have you played where you come to a low hanging object and it says "Press [button] to crouch"? Warframe doesn't have anything like that for most of its systems.

That very thing that you mentioned WF doesn't have is actually in the very first mission tutorial of the game.  It's right after you leave the starting room either before or right after receiving your first weapon.  :smile:

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1 minute ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

At the left top, hover over Game and click on Quick Start Guide and you’re there!

Tho I can instead click PLAY FREE NOW and have the game to play. Maybe a manual will be installed with the game? Maybe I will see a link to the quick start guide from the launcher also?

35bbmva.png

Oh, it is not here...

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There is maybe a manual somewhere in the install directory for offline viewing? Maybe I do not wish the play the game currently, tho learn of it without downloading so many pictures from a wiki because my ISP meters the connection.

2nc3y4w.png

Unsure where to find the manual here...

 

OK, so maybe I must use the internet to learn. There is a wiki yes? I will go to it.

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There is so much tho nothing seems more or less important. Where to begin learning the game???

The quick start guide, yes. Hidden in a menu on the main site, drawing no attention to it while drawing also very much attention to everything else. How much traffic does it get I wonder?

Edited by Zookes
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No one uses the quick start guide. Players even knowing the game very well do not know of it, and any who are annoyed they must teach newbies the ropes say also "go to the wiki". Go to the wiki and read everything? There is no structure here, it is very easy to become lost and give up.

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23 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I'm afraid that decent amount of players jumping here with little bit a selfish mention: "I played so many games, it's F2P nothing can surprise me" and overlooked this: https://www.warframe.com/game/quickstart

As good as that is not having that in the game makes it as useful as the wiki for a player that gets stuck.

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2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

That very thing that you mentioned WF doesn't have is actually in the very first mission tutorial of the game.  It's right after you leave the starting room either before or right after receiving your first weapon.  :smile:

I was just using that as an example. I know Warframe does introduce you to most of its movement systems properly. But for so many other things like Mastery leveling and rank, modding, Reactors/Catalysts, Alerts, Nightmare missions/Sorties, Relics and Primes etc. it does a very poor job of explaining how these systems actually work. Ideally, the game should present a short tutorial with visual aids for the player whenever they try to interact with these system for the first time.

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2 hours ago, Teoarrk said:

As good as that is not having that in the game makes it as useful as the wiki for a player that gets stuck.

I´m afraid that this stars to be more about impatience with question: Why should i put a little bit more effort and my precious time to discover by myself while it can be in tutorial?

Edited by (PS4)Onder6099
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On 2/12/2018 at 8:01 AM, (PS4)BY-51 said:

I just spent an hour answering a new player’s questions. The game needs introductions for everything. 

This includes syndicates, how the relic system works. Crafting requirements. Relic refinement. How to get a clan key.

“I’m at level 30 why am I still weak?” This question told me a few things. He did not understand the importance of reactors catalysts or mods. He knew of them but not their value/necessity. He was at MR 3. He must have been lost for weeks.

Explaining focus, affinity, and mr is a nightmare. I just think the game needs more clarity in the beginning. 

Ive been wanting to play through the game from the beginning but I need a good computer to leave better feedback. 

I love this game. The new player although completely overwhelmed recognized the depth of the game and is now on the right track. I did this to help out not just a new player but for myself because someone did the same for me. 

I think the time has come for a better introduction to how things work in the Warframe universe.

I am a relatively new player , never had a single issue with this game .

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On 2/12/2018 at 2:05 AM, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

Well the YouTube channel Jim Sterling has said he would start talking about problems warframe has and his first video on the issues was directly responsible (as stated by multiple de staff members) for the seperation of Prime Access accessories and regularl prime access for unvaulted primes so if he talks about the new player experience then maybe we'll get that change. 

It's sad though that we'd have to rely on a YouTuber for that. In any case Thank God for Jim @(*()$ Sterling.

TotalBiscuit and many others have already told them the game is overwhelming to new players.  But then we all whine there isn't enough endgame.  So they pile something else on making it even more overwhelming to new players.  Do you remember the War Within?  Veterans were ready to riot when their content was delayed a bit in favor of improving the new player experience.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I´m afraid that this stars to be more about impatience with question: Why should i put a little bit more effort and my precious time to discover by myself while it can be in tutorial?

The only reason for a wiki to exist is to give information to a player that they aren't getting in game.  They have the codex there and it could be improved to better help players, but you're right, leaving the game to go to a website is much more convenient.

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3 hours ago, Flames21891 said:

I was just using that as an example. I know Warframe does introduce you to most of its movement systems properly. But for so many other things like Mastery leveling and rank, modding, Reactors/Catalysts, Alerts, Nightmare missions/Sorties, Relics and Primes etc. it does a very poor job of explaining how these systems actually work. Ideally, the game should present a short tutorial with visual aids for the player whenever they try to interact with these system for the first time.

Some of those things you mentioned can be learned just from READING the descriptions that are in game.  Of those I'm referring to are: reactors/catalyst, alerts, Nightmare missions/sorties and Primes.  If people would just take the time to freaking read, they wouldn't have as many problems as they do.  

Mastery and how it effects things could be explained a little better in the game though.  A few other things also could be explained better. This I do agree on.  

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I am glad this thread exists!

As a recent new player, one of my biggest fears was that, because I have so few weapon/warframe slots, that I would accidentally delete something with a reactor or catalyst in it, especially since a lot of new players use codes like FREESWORD and may not realize that it comes with a catalyst, meaning they may sell if if they need to slot without thinking.

I would recommend putting icons on each weapon when it has a catalyst, the number of formas used on it, if a warframe has an adapter, etc, so that all players (but especially new players) don't accidentally scrap a weapon or warframe which is worth significantly more than they might think it is.

Also, another big pain point - it is hard to know how many warframe and weapon slots you actually have, and the only way to really find out is to dig into the buy menu, which new players may not know. It should probably be on the UI somewhere.

Lastly, new players may not know that, even if a weapon/frame costs platinum to buy outright, the blueprints can be bought with credits. Usually, a weapons icon will only show it's plat cost, and you have to actually click purchase to see that, oh it also has a blueprint. Maybe a seperate "But blueprint for C10000" or whatever the cost is, might help out newer players who don't realise that buying weapons and warframes with plat is totally optional. This is especially important because some players might start playing, see that all the guns require premium currency, then immediately quit the game, calling it pay to win.

Just my ideas as a new player.

Oh also, some mechanics like Armor are never explained. Having an actual Damage Reduction % in the UI might help.

Edited by Sarge945
clarification, also adapter, not reactor
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*copied from my Reddit thread*

So, I will start out making it clear that I haven't played Warframe that much. Maybe 10-15 hours all in all.

I do have very significant experience with gaming in general and this genre in particular.

Think of this as a new player giving his opinion about potential issues getting into the game and how I think DE could potentially get more players to stick with it - through the rather steep learning curve. This is based on the assumption that they WANT more new players to stick with it.

I had the hardest time getting into it - but the more I read about mechanics, the more I think it could be the very best "looter shooter" out there, and I've played all the others including Borderlands, Division, Destiny, Shadow Warrior 2 and Hellgate London.

But there's one thing that really bothers me about the "flow" of progression.

It's the fact that one of the most fundamental aspects of all loot-oriented progression games (including Diablo and all the clones) - is all but non-existant.

That would be the actual loot drop itself.

While the missions are full of crafting materials and ammo, the mod drops are rare and blueprints rarer still.

The problem here is that you don't get that little "christmas present" experience that's so fun when getting into the game. You're actually expected to grind for materials and credits so you can buy and craft.

I don't mind having to work for loot and I don't mind crafting stuff. But the problem is that you have NO idea what loot you actually want.

You don't get to experiment with weapons at all - you have to buy blueprints and gather crafting materials and THEN you have to wait until you actually get to try it for yourself.

Which means you have to spend a disproportionate amount of time reading wikis or watching youtube videos trying to get a grasp of what might be the weapon for you.

Same goes for the Warframes themselves. This is the first loot-driven action/RPG where I've had to actually wait and grind before I could pick the class that I really wanted to play.

Now, I understand this is trivial for veteran players who already have access to everything they want - and know all about what weapons or Warframes fit their playstyles.

I'm talking about this from the perspective of new players who need an incentive to keep playing.

I assume we all want more players to stick with the game?

This game is already famously opaque when it comes to the lingo and the mechanics. It's nearly impenetrable to a new player in terms of the sheer amount of information constantly thrown at you.

To me, it's a HUGE detriment to my enjoyment that I don't get to find any "phat l00t" during normal play and try it out. It's one of the most important - if not THE most important - aspects of this genre and what keeps people playing when all they're doing is really just killing stuff over and over again.

If you play Path of Exile or Diablo - imagine never actually getting any loot drops. Imagine you would have to wait until you'd gathered materials and then having to buy the blueprints. After that, you had to wait before stuff was actually crafted.

Do you think the beginning stages of those games would be as satisfying?

Imagine Blizzard introducing similar mechanics to Diablo 3. Would such a change be met with praise?

In Warframe - they could simply allow inferior versions of existing weapons to drop from a loot table where the better or more expensive weapons were extremely rare. Consider them "demo" versions of the weapons without affinity gain and only Common modding (for instance).

They already have Prime versions of weapons - so why not have "Lesser" (opposite of Prime) versions as well?

So, say, a Lesser Opticor would:

Gain zero affinity and remain at lowest rank - meaning you only use it to test out the playstyle and you'd want to get a real version ASAP.
Have only limited mod capacity and no mods beyond Common mods.
Potentially have inherently inferior stats.
Take up zero weapon slots. So as to not interfere with the proper weapon progression.
Potentially offer them cheap on the market as "Demo" versions.

Keep the blueprints and crafting for all other weapons as is, so as to not change anything else about the game.

It would simply be a matter of tweaking numbers and ensuring a solid economy.

That would go a LONG way to make the progression fun without breaking the game.

Players really, really need a way to try out weapons and a way to find their favorite stuff overall without the initial grinding/crafting hurdle. Remember, this is from the perspective of a new player who does NOT understand the game or what it has in store in terms of content and gameplay. The game provides zero room for experimentation with weapons for new players just starting out - so they really don't know what to go for or why they should bother grinding mats for some strange weapon with an even stranger name.

Giving new players this inferior disposable loot should help them stay interested and addicted to the game - until such time as they start to appreciate the depth and scope of it, so they know what to invest in.

It would certainly make it much more fun to me than having to spend the first many hours waiting and grinding for stuff until you get to TRY another weapon.

Just my two cents.....

Edited by DKCasus
Clarification
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3 hours ago, DKCasus said:

But there's one thing that really bothers me about the "flow" of progression.

I'm going to match your experience in the game and raise it to mine....  I have been with the game since about the time it went open beta almost 5 years ago and have about 1,800 ish hours playing it.  The problem isn't the flow, the problem you're not pointing toward is the fact that this games doesn't have much in the line of rails to handhold the player through the progressions like the games that you have referenced in this suggestion.  Well other than perhaps Path of Exile, but I'll cover that one in a minute. 

The fact of the matter is that Warframe isn't much of a progression game as it's more a simulation game.  A toy (as Maxis once described SimCity when it was first released to DOS so many years ago) where you can do what you want, when you want and most importantly how you want.  While there are certain gates in the game for some of the more powerful weapons (controlled by Mastery Rank), these gates aren't controlled by anything other than player determination.  Hence the reinforcement of this being a simulation...  

3 hours ago, DKCasus said:

Which means you have to spend a disproportionate amount of time reading wikis or watching youtube videos trying to get a grasp of what might be the weapon for you.

I didn't have that when I started the game.  The Wikis were still new, and I didn't get into the content creator videos to reference until much, much later.  I had people trying to show me how to do things.  Build weapons and warframes and then either copy pasting those builds or modifying them based on my playstyle. 

I observed other players playing with me and asked questions as to how they did what they did, when they did.  

And I'm still learning in spite of the experience I've attained in investing in this game.  

3 hours ago, DKCasus said:

I assume we all want more players to stick with the game?

I don't.  Given the amount of crybaby attitudes, the special snowflakes, the overarching negativity that I have seen in the gaming community on the whole, I would prefer them to get weeded out from the steep learning curve and simulation-type game play.  I would prefer to play with more polite and more thinking players here (and in Elite: Dangerous when I am playing that simulation) then having gamers stick around to pour salt because they're not getting their way.  

They are here though, and I'm going to have to live with them on occasion.  

3 hours ago, DKCasus said:

If you play Path of Exile or Diablo - imagine never actually getting any loot drops. Imagine you would have to wait until you'd gathered materials and then having to buy the blueprints. After that, you had to wait before stuff was actually crafted

Now here's the rub.  Path of Exile is a game of pure RNG.  The amount of crap that can drop by killing mountains of enemies is by far more of a flood than anything I have ever experienced.  Hell, I was running an archer and at 10th level she got herself a Tabula Rasa Garment.  Now had I not been told by my friend Joss, I would never have kept the thing.  It looked flimsy and based on the game mechanics, in the wrong hands it is.  In the correct hands however, you can go very far with that garment based on the flexibility of the design.  

However in Warframe, we're dealing with an RNG engine crafted on the same mechanic we experience at gambling casinos throughout the world.  And most of the player base fails to see this skinner box because they're too busy trying to play the numbers for the things that they want.   I come from a family of card counters.  I got my great uncle's ability to track cards to the point where family constantly accuse me of cheating any card game I play.  So I can see when this game is running the numbers in its favour or in the bread crumb handouts to keep the players enticed. 

I keep that in mind any time I crack open relics, visit Baro Ki'teer or have my heart set on specialized weapons that can't be attained from the Dojo, Market or Relics.  

3 hours ago, DKCasus said:

Players really, really need a way to try out weapons and a way to find their favorite stuff overall. The game provides zero room for experimentation in this way.

This is summarily untrue.  As a simulation, you are the king of that experimentation.  You decide what weapons you want to level up and try out.  You can then invest in those weapons as to whether to make them the powerhouses they can become or rank them up and dispose of them if they don't fit the playstyle you prefer.  

Take me as an example.  When I started this game, I was aiming for stealth weapons:  Bows, Throwing Knives, Swords and Glaives.  I still maintain my love of bows and can hit (and kill) targets on the Plains more than 300 meters away (and still maintain an 80% or greater accuracy).  However, I have expanded into unusual firing mechanic weapons (like the Penta, Sonicor, Simulor -- and yes even after the rework it went through).  I have also found a love in shotguns that rivals my love of bows.  About the only thing I can say about my love of melee weapons is that while I've stuck to swords, I have expended more into Polearms because of the reach that they can potentially have.  But all of this was experienced through the very experimentation you don't feel exists in the game.  

My advice is that you should set your pace for the game -- don't let the developers set the pace for you.  It might have taken me almost 4 years to completely open up the Origin System Map, get up to MR 17, and am still working on new Syndicate ranks (along with Ostron and Quill) and there are still combination of mods, weapons, warframes and even figure out synergies with teams and even PUG squads...  But everything I've learned is because I applied myself to it.  Not because DE decided to handhold me through the process.  

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Quote

 

I don't.  Given the amount of crybaby attitudes, the special snowflakes, the overarching negativity that I have seen in the gaming community on the whole, I would prefer them to get weeded out from the steep learning curve and simulation-type game play.  I would prefer to play with more polite and more thinking players here (and in Elite: Dangerous when I am playing that simulation) then having gamers stick around to pour salt because they're not getting their way.  

They are here though, and I'm going to have to live with them on occasion.  

 

That really tells me all I need to know about how differently we perceive the concept of getting new players and spreading the word about Warframe to help its future.

I don't want new players because I want to play with them. I have friends for that. I want new players because it translates directly to more money for DE to develop the game perpetually.

As I said in my OP - my suggestion is exclusively about being more inviting to new players and NOT veteran players who, ideally, shouldn't even notice these changes.

But thank you for your other comments - most of which I very much disagree with, including it not being a progression game and being easy to experiment with for new players with no easy access to gear.

Edited by DKCasus
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I would like the ability to try things out before i buy or craft them. But only in the simulacrum or shop. Being able to get lowbie items etc while an interesting idea is not particularly helpful since even a "lesser opticor" is still going to be a lot better than the mk1 paris or braton they'd start with, take up no weapon slot, and will remain that way until they get their bratons a lot higher. 

All that needs to change is we need more info given in the form of tooltips. Eg what damage types do, what status chance means for the weapon types etc. If stats are moused over even a simple sentence detailing whats said would be helpful for newbies to make their own informed decisions

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