[Ghouls] RNG lore is NOT acceptable!

[schilds]

The hunter mods are there because this is leading up to Khora.

[MiriaChan]

Its me or you ACTUALLY can get a DUPE CODEX entry??

Because I do runs for scans the ghouls alphas and in 1 mission I got 0 reward for 1 stage.

[schilds]

I don't think so, I've not been getting dupes. Halfway through and no issue (other than how painfully grindy it is :-P). However, this morning I just got blank rewards for all stages, that's probably a more general glitch.

[Xaiken-EN-]

As someone who farmed all the Kurias, I really don't want to do it all over again with bounties. Took me around 2 weeks to complete the Kurias. Someone did the math and it would take 62 hours average to complete them. The drop rate needs to be upped dramatically. If they do not, give us a guranteed entry after each bounty. And I hope their algorithm doesn't give dupes.

[Oreades]

You know I just did some maths and I'm kinda even more salty about this now...

With 13 entries that require 4 subsets to unlock..... that is 52 total journals.

If they had guaranteed at a minimum one lore drop per mission it would end up taking somewhere between Six to almost Nine hours of solid grinding (minimum) to complete. Assuming you could run the missions at a time somewhere between ~7-10+ minutes each, your run mileage may vary but I'd guess that is about I was getting with PUBs.

Thanks to the miracle of RNG gating I probably put in close to if not a solid hour (amongst many) yesterday where in which I didn't get a single journal entry......

Yeah this is just so not cool. 

[MiriaChan]

1 hour ago, schilds said:

I don't think so, I've not been getting dupes. Halfway through and no issue (other than how painfully grindy it is :-P). However, this morning I just got blank rewards for all stages, that's probably a more general glitch.

Yep that's happened to me today too, that's why i was afraid of dupes.

A really shame because I like the mini event, but I really dont like that grindy lore rng thing. A very awful and salty idea even if the event will be come back again thats not a good answer because will be the same.

[Oreades]

3 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

Guys...

After finally getting 4/4 on ONE segment, there is hidden voice over like with the Ordis one =.=

Yes they all have hidden voice overs tho they don't so much relate to Ghouls as much as I can tell they all seem to be about 

Spoiler

Khora 

From what I've managed to unlock myself it's also pretty interesting.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Oreades

[Lanying]

Unacceptable?? Get a grip. This is a reoccurring event, you've probably farmed harder for a mod. Even still- unacceptable? Bit strong, this a lore reward in a game... 

[blaes]

On 12/22/2017 at 7:50 PM, ExpGui said:

@[DE]Aidan could you perhaps look at @TGDM reddit post please?

 

welp, i guess that's it for me, i'll do what i did when archwing was released, not touching this anymore until things get fixed.

archwing was released update 15.0, october 2014. tried it a bit, then didn't touch it again until it got fixed in update 17.5, october 2015. one year later. i'll do just the same here, i can wait. in the meantime, it'll just be unused content. i'll look up the lore on google so as not to miss anything, and when things get reasonnable, i'll do it for myself.

kinda sad since i really like recurring events, because it gives everyone, including  players who joins after the initial event release, a chance to experience it and earn the rewards for themselves, and people who already did it in the past a chance to enjoy it again.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Poor Brozime. My god. It was heartbreaking to watch.

[schilds]

@blaes that's not been my experience

Edited December 24, 2017 by schilds

[Sp33DD3Vil]

Okey  dunno if this is in the right area but I kinda get annoyed to get to know encrypted journal fragment  konzu says he gives them but instead off putting them as reward you have to give them you need 94 journal pieces in total that 1per4 and per bounty you only get 1 or 2n

Please change it that you get those more often 

[kyori]

Ya don't know why lock lore behind RNG. Must fire that person who gave this silly idea. lol

[Ikusias]

Locking lore behind an event casual reward that will require massive grinding seems ill advised... why DE? Why?

[aerelm]

This is my haul from this event so far:

46 Hunter mods
14 Weapon Blueprints
More relics than I could keep track of

Only 2 Journal Fragments (each for a separate entry)

At this rate, farming this event for fragments is easily comparable to farming Fomorian for Imperator Vandal (which most people don't even bother with, and is widely known as one of the most brainnumbing grinds in Warframe's history), rather than what in my opinion it should've been like, which was the mod set from Razorback event. It's understandable and completely reasonable to want to implement a grindmap that keeps people coming back to the event every time it pops up, because after all, a lot of energy and creativity was put into it and it would be a shame to see all that go to waste, but I personally don't think the way it's currently implemented actually has the intended result.

If this is supposed to be a recurring event with the main incentive being lore fragments, I personally would've preferred to see new lore segments gradually added for each time (or every few times) this event returns, which not only would've allowed for a far more lax RNG, but would've also made the ingame universe feel more alive with a sense of natural progression that it currently (completely) lacks. Right now, new lore in Warframe feels like that comic book that you have to wait a while for, rather than a webcomic that gets updated one page (or even just a couple of panels) at a time, but at a steady and frequent rate.

To focus on the main flaw with how this "incentive" is currently implemented:

 "There is no need to discover all of the fragments this time around, they will be back every couple weeks or so!"

That's the official statement we got on the matter, which implies that the intention was to have a whole bunch of farmables in one drop table that wouldn't run out in one go, so people would come back to and grind a little bit of every time the event comes back, and eventually complete all the entires in the long run. I must say, I actually really like that idea and think it'd be a really nice addition to the flow of the game if implemented properly. With the current implementation though, "There is no need to discover all of the fragments, period". If the grind is too tedious, while lacking any practical rewards, people simply won't bother with it. I already know more than a few people who've stopped bothering with that event altogether, and we're not even halfway through the first time it's been around.

A good comparison within the Cetus bounty system would be Breath of Eidolon, before and after the bounty changes. In the initial iteration of the bounties, farming for Breaths even for a single higher-end item was such a tedious task that most people gave up on it almost immediately, but after the changes, while it's still endgame-level grind and trying to stockpile enough of it to build everything at once would still be facedesk-worthy, focusing on building through the items one at a time is now actually a manageable goal to achieve in a reasonable time.

My suggestion:

Change the fragments to Common drops, and ideally, change it so they work like Cephalon fragments on planets with multiple entries (adding up toward unlocking one entry at a time in order), and for future runs of the event add a couple of new entries to the journal every time - it doesn't need to be an indefinitely ongoing thing that turns into a burden for the dev team in the long run, but can provide a nice option for minor lore expansions while still keeping the Ghouls event relevant for vets until a future event takes its place.

The entries don't really need to be lore-heavy with hidden voice lines and whatnot (although that would be really nice), but just a pretty picture usable on Liset displays and a few lines of lore would still be enough to add to the replay value. This could have a similar result as the catalyst/reactor reward from Fomorian/Razorback event (most veterans have a stockpile of those, but still do the 3 runs anyways, because why not), and will serve as an incentive for players who enjoy collecting lore (or want more options for their Liset displays) and so will at least form its own audience that keep coming back to the event for at least a few runs each time.

If the past half a year has shown anything about how majority of this community* prefer to play this game, it's this:

Adding a whole pile of new stuff and expecting people to pace their grind toward it and use that pile to set longterm goals for themselves doesn't yield the intended result and instead ends up frustrating the community, and furthermore, introducing something not as easily obtainable as what we've gotten used to in the past doesn't serve as an incentive for players to pace their grind, and instead is perceived as "unreasonable" and "excessive". That's while adding little bits and pieces of frequent new content here and there with the promise of steadily expanding on it in near future gets everyone hyped up and eager for more (A lot of the people I did Teralyst runs with during the first month of the Plains are already done with that farm, but are still looking forward to the new Eidolon types and planing on jumping back on the farmtrain when those arrive - Compare that to the potential reaction to having 10 different Eidolon types added with that first update, and expecting people to take their time to explore them one by one).

So no matter how much new stuff is added in a single update, people will grind through the whole thing in as little time as humanly possible, then sit there bored out of their precious rears, asking for more. How the hype for Plains has already died down and has more or less turned into "just another mission on earth" for some people is a clear example of that. It doesn't mean that Plains wasn't a successful addition, it only means the community have gotten so used to the consistent and regular flow of new content that what they find enjoyable has slowly turned to looking forward to the next new toy rather than focusing on the latest one they got (people were already asking about the next prime before Mirage was even out).

I personally think adjusting the pace of development and release of new content to better suit this kind of expectation would really help with keeping the community happier with progress of the game. This is something that was done absolutely perfectly with the new spoiler-teaser that came with the personal quarters update and I personally hope to see much more of the future content presented like that (in multiple stages, rather than trying to fit the entire thing in a single patchnote).

What we've gotten in Warframe recently, in my opinion is some of the best content updates the game has received since The Second Dream, so I wouldn't say the problem is in the content itself, but rather the presentation of it.

_{* Those who share their opinions and feedback on forums/reddit, at least - myself included.}

Edited December 24, 2017 by aerelm

[Bibliothekar]

Fully agree on that one. We should get one on top of the random rewards for each Ghoul bounty we finish. This randomness is just awful.

vor 15 Minuten schrieb kyori:

Must fire that person who gave this silly idea. lol

Eh, next thing you know only Geoff and Rebecca are left on the couch.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Bibliothekar

[SDGDen]

remove the megathread tag. 

[Bibliothekar]

Am 22.12.2017 um 18:50 schrieb [DE]Aidan:

the Ghouls will be a recurring occurrence on the Plains,

So are the Acolytes. Which show up once a year on Christmas. Sorry, but that's a NO from me. I'm drowning in Lith T1 relics here but have only found 3 journal pages so far.

[Chipputer]

18 hours ago, Lanying said:

Unacceptable??

Yes. Unacceptable.

Some of us like to make some semblance of progress when we spend our free time playing a game after a long day of holiday-tier work. Grinding for resources at least gives you a tangible amount you need and you can see how many you've collected. I've spent the better portion of 10 total hours farming this event, over three days, and have found 6 lore fragments.

I'm one of the lucky ones.

[Grimm]

On 23/12/2017 at 6:50 AM, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey All,

Just chiming in here to shed a little more light on the Ghouls + Lore situation. As @DustyFlash has pointed out in their post above, the Ghouls will be a recurring occurrence on the Plains, they are not treated like other 1-time events. That means that there is no need to discover all of the fragments this time around, they will be back every couple weeks or so! 

Happy hunting!

 

It is annoying most people don't understand it's like an invasion, but 52 fragments with a "1 in 10" chance according to someone on glen' server, is pretty harsh when previous lore has been only covered by the rng of title set spawns rather then being a mission drop. It's a big change and as is shown in this post and others,  not a very liked one. Considering how mind numbing the 2 bounties are themselves, myself I got up yesterday played them for an hour got 2 journal in that hour and was so tired with boredim I went back to bed. It' not as boring as the previous event but it isn't hard or interesting either. And I know it's not ment to be hard it's for new players it's on earth but your long time players have to come back and grind it for completion. But other then the lore it brings nothing but boredim for us. 

[AuroraSonicBoom]

RNG lore is acceptable, if the odds don't cause burnout, which they certainly do in this situation. A 50% drop chance would be something I have nothing against, but with the current odds you quickly grow to resent the game for giving you dozens of a reward(weapon BPs) you need only two or three of, while the thing you actually require dozens of can elude you for hours and hours.

This isn't fun, this is frustration, regardless of whether its impacting gameplay or not.

[Bibliothekar]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb Grimm:

It is annoying most people don't understand it's like an invasion,

To be fair, if you are correct with this, DE has done an absolutely rubbish job at explaining this once again. Nowhere in the Update notes does it mention that Ghouls will (supposedly) be the Plains' version of Invasions. Could you point me to wherever they said this, please? Because my take on this so far is that Ghouls will just become regular enemies on the Plains after this event is over.

[Grimm]

42 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

To be fair, if you are correct with this, DE has done an absolutely rubbish job at explaining this once again. Nowhere in the Update notes does it mention that Ghouls will (supposedly) be the Plains' version of Invasions. Could you point me to wherever they said this, please? Because my take on this so far is that Ghouls will just become regular enemies on the Plains after this event is over.

They talked about It in the last Dev stream. It' a reoccurrng bounty. The fact it has the Hunter mod set in it says its not a one 5ime thing. If it was a new event or tactical alert it wouldn' ccntain ssomething so new. The content it self shows itself to not be temporarily. Dialogue from npcs talk about solving the ghoul issues for now not permanent. Also what they showed us on Dev stream points out it basically the Plains equivalent to a formurian or the razorback. I'm disappointed they didn't  add the hemacyte as a infested invasion progress meter that was based on say the infested was frighting the corpus, if the corpus lost to the grineer on another planet the infested would progress because the corpus offensive against the infested was weakened by there lose against the grineer. Would have been cool. 

Edited December 25, 2017 by Grimm

[Lanying]

18 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Yes. Unacceptable.

Some of us like to make some semblance of progress when we spend our free time playing a game after a long day of holiday-tier work. Grinding for resources at least gives you a tangible amount you need and you can see how many you've collected. I've spent the better portion of 10 total hours farming this event, over three days, and have found 6 lore fragments.

I'm one of the lucky ones.

come on get a grip. You dont need to farm this event, there will be other times this event will come.

A Government official being racist is unacceptable... this, this is just annoying.

[Bibliothekar]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Lanying:

You dont need to farm this event, there will be other times this event will come.

They said the same about Acolytes. Who'll show up once a year when DE and half the player base is away on vacation. And the thing we're talking about here aren't some mods that you can trade. It's lore. That you have to unlock yourself or you won't get it. If that isn't worth raising a stink, then what is? How else can we make sure this won't happen again if we don't get loud?

What's next? A new warframe locked behind the Jack'o'naut so you can only get it for a few days every Halloween? Would that be "just annoying" to you as well?

And yes, this is unacceptable, because I am not willing to accept such  in this game.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Bibliothekar