The whole Acolyte event was a testament to poor design and planning

[(PSN)psycofang]

9 hours ago, Mewvg2 said:

Let's blame the devs for abusing psychology and feeding into addictive personality types, yes. Game devs have to be aware of such things, one look at the loot box controversy going on right now should teach you that. Respect the player, if an aspect of your game is hurting them rather than entertaining, you've done something wrong. At the end of the day, DE wants everyone to enjoy Warframe, not feel like a slave to their addiction to it.

Weird because in every mmo i play they have events like these, warframe is not suddenly special in that regard. This so far is the ONLY one to complain about the users inability to control themselves. 

Youre blaming the dev for dropping filler content during their vacation like it was some malicious act to keep you playing for mods that arent even that good. 

Regardless of WHAT they dropped people wouldve complained that they farmed too much or didnt get what they want.

Comparing this to loot boxes is as asinine as it gets,  this is fundamentally different and on a completely lower scale than loot boxes.

This is not predatory behavior designed to make people miss Christmas.

 

The payout is too low to cause a rave like youre implying, hype is the blame but hype was not caused by the devs, its the community and their need for something that barely matters at best.

 

Yea youre blaming the devs for a community created problem and players inability to turn off their video game.

If its such a danger than it spreads entirely into irl, you cant pick and choose when and when its not inappropriate so its either harming people all year around and needs to be stopped or its not as bad as you are all making it be. 

 

Im going with the latter, people needing to grind for a mod that shows up 1 - 2 times a year taking precedent over sitting with their families on Christmas means their lack of self control is not selective which means any event is bad, they need to seek help not blame everyone for their issues.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[BlackCoMerc]

On 12/27/2017 at 5:29 PM, Dornez said:

1) The Acolyte mods are OP, maybe not all of them, but a select few are so disgustingly overpowered they honestly should not exist. 

When a mod sells for over 800 plat and can turn any weapon into a force of nature, it is OP.

You know it, I know it, DE knows it

The acolyte mods are OP

This makes them incredibly coveted. Like that alluring jackpot on a slot machine. 

 

2) The event dropped on Christmas weekend. 

You know that time of year that good little boys and girls are supposed to spend time with their families away from video games? Even DE all went on vacation for the weekend. 

So why would you drop the most coveted event/mod on one of the most important weekends to not play video games?

It was a bit counterintuitive to the spirit of the season

 

3) The event hooked people into the game, like a bad gambling addiction. 

You know what I heard in my Discord server multiple times?

"I wish I could be doing X but I can't because the Acolyte will pop up during that time."

Long def survival mission? Nope. Eidolon Hunt...nope. Basically any mission that could potentially last over 5 min whas a no go.

People were on edge the whole time. Hoping to get their mods. 

And no one wanted to stop playing either. only here is the catch,

They didn't want to stop playing, not because it was fun. They didn't want to stop playing for fear they would miss the jackpot

Keep that in mind when you design the next event DE.

 

Now everyone in our discord server is thinking the same thing, "I am going to put warframe down for a few weeks"

Note I didn't say quit. But this event left us broken. 

 

I hope you learn something DE, this event was not ok. 

 

I've long said this is the niche Warframe is focused on: players prone to gambling addiction. That's the target audience now. Has been since theoney started coming from the current parent company, because that is all they know.

It's not an accident that so much of this game FEELS like Gambling now. It's not coincidence. It is deliberate, intentional design to make it feel that way, and I think DE needs to have a serious talk with their corporate overlords soon about how well the things go over in Western markets.

[BlackCoMerc]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Weird because in every mmo i play they have events like these, warframe is not suddenly special in that regard. This so far is the ONLY one to complain about the users inability to control themselves. 

Youre blaming the dev for dropping filler content during their vacation like it was some malicious act to keep you playing for mods that arent even that good. 

Regardless of WHAT they dropped people wouldve complained that they farmed too much or didnt get what they want.

Comparing this to loot boxes is as asinine as it gets,  this is fundamentally different and on a completely lower scale than loot boxes.

This is not predatory behavior designed to make people miss Christmas.

 

The payout is too low to cause a rave like youre implying, hype is the blame but hype was not caused by the devs, its the community and their need for something that barely matters at best.

 

Yea youre blaming the devs for a community created problem and players inability to turn off their video game.

If its such a danger than it spreads entirely into irl, you cant pick and choose when and when its not inappropriate so its either harming people all year around and needs to be stopped or its not as bad as you are all making it be. 

 

Im going with the latter, people needing to grind for a mod that shows up 1 - 2 times a year taking precedent over sitting with their families on Christmas means their lack of self control is not selective which means any event is bad, they need to seek help not blame everyone for their issues.

 

 

Neuroscientific Fact: The brains of those prone to gambling addiction don't work the way normal brains do. Those brains register near misses and very minor recompense as outright Wins. The brain literally lights up the WRONG sections on a near Miss loss - the sections reserved for a Win in normal brains.

Game devs KNOW this. Heck, video game devs taught casinos this trick. And they design games to DELIBERATELY take advantage of a neurological difference - arguably, a defect - in the brains of some gamers.

So while one could argue that such people should not play game with RNG aspects or other similar mechanics, some people don't know these things about themselves until it's too late. And get devs know this, too.

So now, knowing this...don't you think he developers have some responsibility to stop preying on neurological difference and defect over which people have no control?

I mean, if tobacco companies have tonwarn you about side effects of their products, shouldn't games with RNG reward systems need to warm about possibly leading to gaming or gambling addiction?

Edited December 29, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[MagPrime]

The way I see it, this event is awesome for people who don't have friends and family to spend the holidays with.

Let them have nice things too.

This is the first time the event has dropped on a major, international holiday and we all know the acolytes will make a come back.

[321agemo]

Quote

1) The Acolyte mods are OP, maybe not all of them, but a select few are so disgustingly overpowered they honestly should not exist. 

When a mod sells for over 800 plat and can turn any weapon into a force of nature, it is OP.

You know it, I know it, DE knows it

The acolyte mods are OP

This makes them incredibly coveted. Like that alluring jackpot on a slot machine. 

eh, If the mods were easily obtainable the price would just plummet. its the rarity thats pushing it so far up.

 

Quote

 

2) The event dropped on Christmas weekend. 

You know that time of year that good little boys and girls are supposed to spend time with their families away from video games? Even DE all went on vacation for the weekend. 

So why would you drop the most coveted event/mod on one of the most important weekends to not play video games?

It was a bit counterintuitive to the spirit of the season

 

 

DE could have dropped the event at literally anytime and people would have complained that DE dropped it during that time. The fact the matter is Christmas time is one of those holidays where most people won't have work or school, so they have the greatest amount of free time.

 

 

Quote

 

3) The event hooked people into the game, like a bad gambling addiction. 

You know what I heard in my Discord server multiple times?

"I wish I could be doing X but I can't because the Acolyte will pop up during that time."

Long def survival mission? Nope. Eidolon Hunt...nope. Basically any mission that could potentially last over 5 min whas a no go.

People were on edge the whole time. Hoping to get their mods. 

And no one wanted to stop playing either. only here is the catch,

They didn't want to stop playing, not because it was fun. They didn't want to stop playing for fear they would miss the jackpot

Keep that in mind when you design the next event DE.

 

 

that can be true for any events with rewards people want.

[toxicitzi]

the problem with anyone defending this is, these are rewards people will want. If people didn't want the rewards, there wouldn't be price gauging going on in trading for them. Not to mention, there's an objective value in their use and any event thing in any other game, is mostly purely cosmetic, or something that can easily be replaceable by something else, this isn't the case here.

 

in short, F*** the these mods, the way they're implemented and especially the Prime vault. You guys find me one MMO in which players won't want to get items, or better said, upgrades to their builds. I don't think you can.

[DJ_Vauban]

19 hours ago, mHtt said:

I got 11 maiming strikes in 220runs.

Pff, that made me chuckle. Of course you would be praising DE if you got that many from 220 runs, because most people with that amount of tries didn't even get one I'm pretty sure.

[Urabask]

8 minutes ago, toxicitzi said:

the problem with anyone defending this is, these are rewards people will want. If people didn't want the rewards, there wouldn't be price gauging going on in trading for them. Not to mention, there's an objective value in their use and any event thing in any other game, is mostly purely cosmetic, or something that can easily be replaceable by something else, this isn't the case here.

 

in short, F*** the these mods, the way they're implemented and especially the Prime vault. You guys find me one MMO in which players won't want to get items, or better said, upgrades to their builds. I don't think you can.

The prime vault and these mods represent one of the few ways that you can get plat relatively easily to buy slots and potatoes.  If we were all reliant on selling prime sets for 40P a piece it would take forever to get anything without spending.  Everyone complains about Maiming Strike and Argon scope, but Mania dropped Weeping wounds left and right.  And he was available after the holiday.  If anything he represented the use of time during the event since he drops an uncommon mod that'll be worth ~70+ plat after the event.

[LuckyCharm]

30 minutes ago, toxicitzi said:

the problem with anyone defending this is, these are rewards people will want. If people didn't want the rewards, there wouldn't be price gauging going on in trading for them. Not to mention, there's an objective value in their use and any event thing in any other game, is mostly purely cosmetic, or something that can easily be replaceable by something else, this isn't the case here.

 

in short, F*** the these mods, the way they're implemented and especially the Prime vault. You guys find me one MMO in which players won't want to get items, or better said, upgrades to their builds. I don't think you can.

Is it though? In other mmos ive played many have event things that provide stat boosts, buffs or healing. Some are tied to costumes, titles, or just plain old event items. 

As for your challenge, i raise you guild wars 2. All weapons etc of the rarity teir give the exact same damage and stats. At least they did when i played it at the lvl 80 cap. Players wanted new items sure.. but only to look different from others. 

[toxicitzi]

37 minutes ago, Urabask said:

The prime vault and these mods represent one of the few ways that you can get plat relatively easily to buy slots and potatoes.  If we were all reliant on selling prime sets for 40P a piece it would take forever to get anything without spending.  Everyone complains about Maiming Strike and Argon scope, but Mania dropped Weeping wounds left and right.  And he was available after the holiday.  If anything he represented the use of time during the event since he drops an uncommon mod that'll be worth ~70+ plat after the event.

and that's a serious problem with the game's economy. The structure there is, the devs removed the access we previously had to these items and like a product that has no more production from the main firm, you end up with scalpers everywhere.

In fact, why is it that I've only ever heard of Warframe having its entire economy built off of scalpers?

19 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Is it though? In other mmos ive played many have event things that provide stat boosts, buffs or healing. Some are tied to costumes, titles, or just plain old event items. 

As for your challenge, i raise you guild wars 2. All weapons etc of the rarity teir give the exact same damage and stats. At least they did when i played it at the lvl 80 cap. Players wanted new items sure.. but only to look different from others. 

Yes it is. I've played other MMOs too and about the vast majority of their events were boosts to rates, or fashion clothing that had no inherent advantages, or any inherent advantages greater than the in game loot people sought. This is a peculiar one, where in almost all its events, items similar to higher tiers in other MMOs are broken up into event exclusive, or scarcity from no longer being attainable and I'm talking about higher grades of items/upgrades here, the same ones you'd get in other MMOs from the latter in game content.

[Mewvg2]

2 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

This is not predatory behavior

Deliberately feeding into addictive behavior and not respecting players' time is predatory behavior. There's nothing to argue here, that's just a fact. The argument that someone else did it first or has been doing it for a while is meaningless and frankly beyond stupidity.

I was pointing out the loot box garbage as an example of another practice that takes advantage of gambling addiction. Just because this system is harder to spot doesn't mean it doesn't exploit the same thing. EA is far worse than DE, they aren't even on the same plane of existence, but they could both improve by taking a hard look at how to do ethical game design.

[Twilight053]

-snip-

Edited December 29, 2017 by Twilight053

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, Mewvg2 said:

Deliberately feeding into addictive behavior and not respecting players' time is predatory behavior. There's nothing to argue here, that's just a fact. The argument that someone else did it first or has been doing it for a while is meaningless and frankly beyond stupidity.

I was pointing out the loot box garbage as an example of another practice that takes advantage of gambling addiction. Just because this system is harder to spot doesn't mean it doesn't exploit the same thing. EA is far worse than DE, they aren't even on the same plane of existence, but they could both improve by taking a hard look at how to do ethical game design.

Well said. 

Too many want to hold DE harmless just because EA is worse.

[Lisztomaniac]

Le 12/27/2017 à 15:29, Dornez a dit :

 

...They didn't want to stop playing, not because it was fun. They didn't want to stop playing for fear they would miss the jackpot

Keep that in mind when you design the next event DE...

 

...

they did keep it in mind, you really think it was all a mistake? please.

[Urabask]

3 hours ago, toxicitzi said:

and that's a serious problem with the game's economy. The structure there is, the devs removed the access we previously had to these items and like a product that has no more production from the main firm, you end up with scalpers everywhere.

In fact, why is it that I've only ever heard of Warframe having its entire economy built off of scalpers?

Yes it is. I've played other MMOs too and about the vast majority of their events were boosts to rates, or fashion clothing that had no inherent advantages, or any inherent advantages greater than the in game loot people sought. This is a peculiar one, where in almost all its events, items similar to higher tiers in other MMOs are broken up into event exclusive, or scarcity from no longer being attainable and I'm talking about higher grades of items/upgrades here, the same ones you'd get in other MMOs from the latter in game content.

It's not scalping though.  Making a profit based on scarcity is a fundamental part of all mmo economies. You can complete any activity in the game without the items you're complaining about.  All they really represent is a time and resource sink for endgame players.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Urabask

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, Lisztomaniac said:

they did keep it in mind, you really think it was all a mistake? please.

I had this exact thought

It's like some people cannot fathom that profit driven companies aren't your friend.

Not that I take issue with making a profit. But you can do it without preying on vulnerability.

Edited December 29, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

or just let the acolytes pop up more regularly so the mods arn't as hard to come by and therefore needing to spend all your time on a single activity is not as required... but for some reason, ive found that people will immediately shoot down the suggestion of more frequent acolytes.

[(PSN)psycofang]

7 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

So now, knowing this...don't you think he developers have some responsibility to stop preying on neurological difference and defect over which people have no control?

No. Unless it was maliciously calculated no because ANY EVENT AT ANY TIME FALLS INTO THIS CATEGORY.   

 

DE already warns you to stop playing after 2 hours, people ignore it anyway and grind dangerous amounts of resources DESPITE the warning.  You think another word print love letter is going to stop these people?

 

No. It wont. It never will and if DE is to take responsibility then ALL events at ALL times are a problem, which means the few require DE to stop ALL rng based events permanently. 

5 hours ago, Mewvg2 said:

Deliberately feeding into addictive behavior and not respecting players' time is predatory behavior.

Now provide proof that them dropping this event like theyve done for the last couple years is now suddenly predatory behavior. This thread was made because someone was butthurt they didn't get the mod they wanted.

 

This is a grind game, you respect your own time, if you get it you get it if you dont you dont.  Usually a well functioning adult knows this but if again DE has to tale responsibility for these un named players who cant stop or the communities innability to prioririze then they need to stop all events at all times.

 

No matter WHEN this event dropped this thread would have popped up again and people would be pointing the finger at De for rng events in an rng game. 

So far all i see are sore losers saying DE are villains because "muh mod" not because of then purposefully calculating the best time to take advantage of kids with addictions. 

The moment you come of the forums crying is the moment youre fully aware of what you did.

5 hours ago, Mewvg2 said:

Just because this system is harder to spot doesn't mean it doesn't exploit the same thing

Then the game itself is a loot box by your example, if we follow this obviously biased argument then this game should be r18 and since DE ALREADY WARNS YOU TO STOP AFTER 1-2 HOURS their hands are tied.

Only other thing they can do to stop you guys from finding someone to blame is to completely remove your choice and kick you off the game for X hours.

Im not saying they are flawless but to say they need to be responsible for every game related addiction is ridiculous and left up to interpretation if its "harder to find". That means its not an actual issue, youre looking for it on purpose.

[321agemo]

3 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Then the game itself is a loot box by your example, if we follow this obviously biased argument then this game should be r18 and since DE ALREADY WARNS YOU TO STOP AFTER 1-2 HOURS their hands are tied.

thanks for reminding me.

[ConjureMe27]

Oh my another thread with this kind of discussion again. Okay I think it's pretty fair if the mods in the event are strong and rare enough to be farmed sacrificing our precious times in holiday, if not what's the use of the mods event anyway. And don't forget that's the jobs of the developer team to manage people always gathering in their game. if they did it, horray success from their side.

Secondly, although i kinda disagree with this "bad timing" things. Every events in the games are always like that, it's supposed to celebrate the whole holiday anyway, and aside from that if you miss acolyte mods or the event itself. You can always do it next time if you're patient enough or buy it from market if you have plats to do so.

 And the laaasstt, there are so many people like you outside there that are waiting for the same mods each year. But don't worry about that, those mods are replaceable anyway

[Mewvg2]

On 12/29/2017 at 2:00 PM, (PS4)psycofang said:

No. Unless it was maliciously calculated

Game devs want to create fun, but they have to be careful not to cause harm even if it isn't intentional.

On 12/29/2017 at 2:00 PM, (PS4)psycofang said:

Now provide proof that them dropping this event like theyve done for the last couple years is now suddenly predatory behavior.

It's not 'suddenly' predatory, it always has been. The desirability of the rewards here just highlight that fact to more people.

On 12/29/2017 at 2:00 PM, (PS4)psycofang said:

DE already warns you to stop playing after 2 hours

Perhaps on console, there has never been such a warning on PC. Not that it matters anyhow, the reward system for events directly contradicts that.

DE should find a better way of handling events, perhaps more token-based systems are the answer or maybe something else. They are creative enough to find a solution to this problem.

[ACULonSeer]

I am so glad I got spring-loaded chamber and shrapnel shot. Imo those mods were just the right amount of "OP" because when put on the right guns, they became absolutely hilarious to use.

SLC removed Tenora's windup entirely, making the weapon shoot so fast it sounded like a LAWNMOWER. I put on blast and corrosive, turned on SLC, and just swept it over a crowd of grineer and watched them evaporate.

Shrapnel shot didn't change my Corinth that much, but it made an already wonderful shotgun even more deadly. 

I got these two mods without much work and never really farmed the acolytes. I had no interest in maiming strike, and I'm glad, because I ended up making several new friends in a Survival when I could've been grinding.

TLDR: even if you didn't get maiming strike, these two mods made the event worth it if you knew how to use them

[Educated_Beast]

Got all the mods previously and don't mess with trading unless I'm buying something with the plat I paid for.  

 

Haven't ran one mission.  So people really buy maiming strike for 800?  It's a 50-75P mod at most.  

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, Educated_Beast said:

Got all the mods previously and don't mess with trading unless I'm buying something with the plat I paid for.  

 

Haven't ran one mission.  So people really buy maiming strike for 800?  It's a 50-75P mod at most.  

sold my spare for 800 when tennobaum hit.

[Gandergear]

On 12/27/2017 at 4:29 PM, Dornez said:

The Acolyte mods are OP, maybe not all of them, but a select few are so disgustingly overpowered they honestly should not exist. 

When a mod sells for over 800 plat and can turn any weapon into a force of nature, it is OP.

You know it, I know it, DE knows it

The acolyte mods are OP

This makes them incredibly coveted. Like that alluring jackpot on a slot machine. 

The only 2 mods that are actually good are weeping wounds and blood rush. Meme strike is just that, a MEME, even with a macro its use is so limited compared to condition overload and status builds that the only weapon type youll notice a difference with is whips.

I dont think i actually use argon scope or bladed rounds sharpened/crosshairs on any build, the vigilante mods have basically pushed all of them out.

And the rest of the mods, ya no one uses em.

2. I agree wholly

3. I dont think anyone active in my clan discord felt that, most of us rejoiced we got 1-3 mods we wanted, but i cant speak for everyone. The thing is you have to be responsible. You shouldnt grind so hard during christmas that you dont see your family, thats on you for thinking a mod worth 7 dollars worth of platinum is in any way equivalent to spending time with those you love.