Plea for Digital Extremes: PoE leeching.

[LuinCeltchar]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Uhhh, why would that stop you from playing PoE.  Is it the groups?  I mean I play PoE just fine solo and love it better that way.

Because I enjoy playing with other people? I can solo it all if there's a specific reward I want, but otherwise I'd rather go somewhere else and not have to worry about locking people out of my mission because of scumbag leeches.

[xiaodenden]

The handful of times that we did high level bounties in public, we ran into leeches literally every single time.  They would either not bother to come to the bounty area or they stay in rift/arcwhing/razorwing and contribute nothing.  Even if someone goes down, they wouldn't help.  Sure, we can carry the entire team no problem, but it doesn't mean we like it.  We solved the problem by never play bounties in public again, but that's not a solution for everyone.  I have to say not everyone we encountered are leeches because there are some excellent, contributing players, but the leeches are just too abundant on PoE.  I suspect that those who can solo or play with friends already do so and many (note, I'm not saying most or all) that can't or too lazy to go to recruitment chat expect others to carry them.

I don't know what DE can do to discourage leeching.  Maybe players need to be in the area of the bounty to receive the rewards, but that wouldn't solve the problem of those who stay in rift/archwing/razorwing.  Numbers killed/damage dealt wouldn't be a good idea either because not everyone contributes to the team with DPS, and that would hurt those who are playing support/crowd control.  Friends only/recruitment/solo (quit session and report/ignore afk players) is the best solution we have right now as players, but something needs to be done to discourage leeches.  I'm sure DE wants people to actively play to gain the rewards.

I actually don't mind people fishing/minding when others are doing bounty, but that's because we're playing with people we know.  Not to mention normally we would complete all our objectives (bounty or Terry capture) before we start fishing/mining.  I have no problem doing multiple things on PoE during one session because that's the part of the fun, but we like to do things on our own term, on our own time, which is why most of the time it's friends only or solo.

 

[Loswaith]

38 minutes ago, LuinCeltchar said:

Because I enjoy playing with other people? I can solo it all if there's a specific reward I want, but otherwise I'd rather go somewhere else and not have to worry about locking people out of my mission because of scumbag leeches.

Is the leecher actually preventing you from doing a bounty with the rest of the group, though? 

In most cases they aren't, the only one one they do effect is the rescue target and lets face it those should be following the person that frees them anyway (or making their own way to the extraction point), not just any random person in the squad.  This means that you and the others in your squad can happily play together, and just ignore (not the chat ignore) the leecher.

Don't get me wrong here, I don't think people should be able to leech, the downside however is far more often the restriction's have little effect on the true leechers (they just typically find a way around it like Macros for the AFK timer) and just cause more issues on the people actually playing (especially those helping others) that have little control or ability to avoid being hit by the "anti-leeching system".  I'm happy enough to ignore one leecher so that 5+ other players aren't punished by the "anti-leeching system".

For example, plenty of times I've just gotten into a bounty to have the stage suddenly completed just as I entered the plains (I'm sure others have had that for mine), I had no control on that, but with Anti-leeching anyone in that boat would miss out.  If you put restriction on joining only a group just starting, then you will find fewer groups.  If you put a timer on the lock out leechers can still leech within that timer, and it blocks out groups that want to diversify their tactics.

I've seen newer players have problems keeping up in plains (especially with veterans and operator dash-leaping) missions as well often not getting close enough before the bounty is completed.  These players too are likely to miss out on rewards with an anti-leeching system.

DE really needs to look at who are leeching to begin with and fix they why they are leeching (low MR, done the mission 100s of times, not able to contribute), not using some quick fix that inevitably punishes actual players.

[Fallen_Echo]

8 hours ago, shoopypit said:

I think it might be easier for open world areas to do auto sharing. If someone is just fishing instead of bounty hunting, maybe every other player should also be reward fishies

This would easily fix this problem as in PoE we dont have the true leech effect aka afk on hydron but people doing something else.

Sidenote did they fixed the bug/feature what caused people to be put in bounty runs when deployed into poe from the liset?

[Fallen_Echo]

9 hours ago, INight00 said:

A vote system would be great.
It initiates in the chat window and allows three players to vote off one player resulting in them being kicked.

The vote mechanic (click/ buttons) can be the same as when you link and item, you click on it to perform a command.

All it needs is one guy whi doesnt care (aka the one who can solo it) and the voting fails and with a group of trolls you can easily harden the life of people.

I have never seen a vote system in a game what worked as intented and never actually seen devs putting vote system in any place where only 4 players are on the map.

[PatternistSlave]

When a host leaving to save a minute of waiting for everyone to get back to the gate can cost you all your rewards, I don't think the most pressing issue with PoE pub groups is someone not being useful.  They're not actively hindering the mission.  That's more times than not when I que up for a public survival.

[Leorion]

I agree that leeching is bad but I think your worry is very real. I've done bounties where I had been bullet jumping as fast as I could, and the other team member would wormhole or fly, or whatever they used, finished the bounty area and moved on before I could have hoped of reaching it.

It gets even worse when they're done, and go back only to wait for me to cross the same distance game like I'm playing a bad case of tag. And I get lost very often as well...

[shoopypit]

8 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

This would easily fix this problem as in PoE we dont have the true leech effect aka afk on hydron but people doing something else.

Sidenote did they fixed the bug/feature what caused people to be put in bounty runs when deployed into poe from the liset?

Didn't realize this was a bug. I never go from the liset I always go to cetus first. 

[Fallen_Echo]

32 minutes ago, shoopypit said:

Didn't realize this was a bug. I never go from the liset I always go to cetus first. 

This was an extremely common bug what even managed to throw people into invite only and solo runs too.

I remember entering cetus for mining without any bounty and i got into the solo teralyst hunt of some player along with two guys who wanted to do a bounty with invite only.

[Spectre-8]

You can always go solo or abandon the mission and start a new one , noone needs troll enabling feature such as vote kick in this game just because of a few bad apples .

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Spectre-8

[(PSN)rooster33]

On 1/8/2018 at 4:05 PM, INight00 said:

A vote system would be great.
It initiates in the chat window and allows three players to vote off one player resulting in them being kicked.

The vote mechanic (click/ buttons) can be the same as when you link and item, you click on it to perform a command.

This isn't a good idea unfortunately as this will be abused too. People kicking players for no reason,or to let a friend join etc . No this won't work . 

 

A simple solution would be to give either no reward beyond experience, or a lesser reward for players not participating. How something like this could be implemented is uncertain as even this could be unfair in situations as well. 

[INight00]

On 1/9/2018 at 6:20 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

All it needs is one guy whi doesnt care (aka the one who can solo it) and the voting fails and with a group of trolls you can easily harden the life of people.

I have never seen a vote system in a game what worked as intented and never actually seen devs putting vote system in any place where only 4 players are on the map.

 

13 hours ago, (PS4)rooster33 said:

This isn't a good idea unfortunately as this will be abused too. People kicking players for no reason,or to let a friend join etc . No this won't work . 

The second post I wrote after described:

The vote would require input from all players,
So out of 4 players, player 3 is afk/ leeching.
Player 1 will initiate a vote on player 3, players 1,2 and 4 will vote 'yes' to kick, but if there is no response from 3, only then will they be kicked and possibly given a warning.

In the same situation but for abuse and trolling, player 3 is not afk, the vote to kick them will be ignored as votes from all 4 players (yes, yes, no, yes) were input.
This can be bypassed however since it is possible for player 3 to sit back and watch, input the 'no' vote, then continue to leech.

But still, in the same situations a vote could look like this: yes, --- ,no, --- .
The blanks being two players immersed in the game not bothering with voting...

Situational... could work in some cases.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 minute ago, INight00 said:

 

The second post I wrote after described:

The vote would require input from all players,
So out of 4 players, player 3 is afk/ leeching.
Player 1 will initiate a vote on player 3, players 1,2 and 4 will vote 'yes' to kick, but if there is no response from 3, only then will they be kicked and possibly given a warning.

In the same situation but for abuse and trolling, player 3 is not afk, the vote to kick them will be ignored as votes from all 4 players (yes, yes, no, yes) were input.
This can be bypassed however since it is possible for player 3 to sit back and watch, input the 'no' vote, then continue to leech.

But still, in the same situations a vote could look like this: yes, --- ,no, --- .
The blanks being two players immersed in the game not bothering with voting...

Situational... could work in some cases.

The problem is that its situational and salt can spread faster than a wildfire.

Think of all the people who just got limbo and cant get into a squad because they are instantly voted out. Think about the countless nerf X posts where all guys want to remove X element from the game because it bothers them.

On PoE the situation is simple, people dont afk leech they are farming. Lets make their efforts reward the whole squad. Much less people would have problems with this if they would get gains from it.

[INight00]

Said Limbo can vote 'no' and not get kicked.
The voting mechanic wont be hidden away on chat when it asks for you prompt, it will be draw your attention to it.

[Fallen_Echo]

5 minutes ago, INight00 said:

Said Limbo can vote 'no' and not get kicked.
The voting mechanic wont be hidden away on chat when it asks for you prompt, it will be draw your attention to it.

Wait let me get this straight, i may have missed a point.

4 players vote, if 3 votes yes and one is not responding (the one who is voted against) then he gets kicked for being afk.

If 4 players vote, 3 votes yes but the 4th one reacts and votes no then he is not kicked as he is not afk?

I dare to say that this can work, hell this is the best vote system i have seen soo far.

[INight00]

6 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Wait let me get this straight, i may have missed a point.

4 players vote, if 3 votes yes and one is not responding (the one who is voted against) then he gets kicked for being afk.

If 4 players vote, 3 votes yes but the 4th one reacts and votes no then he is not kicked as he is not afk?

I dare to say that this can work, hell this is the best vote system i have seen soo far.

It may not work, it's still purely situational as I explained in an earlier post.
As the vote will draw the players attention, it does warrant a vote.
The systems in-game with their timers are easily exploitable, this vote can be as well.

Something needs to be done, a system that is more thorough.

Edited January 10, 2018 by INight00
Also, sarcasm doesn't help.

[Fallen_Echo]

Just now, INight00 said:

It may not work, it's still purely situational as I explained in an earlier post.
As the vote will draw the players attention, it does warrant a vote.
The systems in-game with their timers are easily exploitable, this vote can be as well.

Something needs to be done, a system that is more thorough.

Any click here and there kind of system could work because using a mouse moving macro is a banable offence. It can be set on a randomised placement to appear at different points of the screen too to further increase the hardness of auto-voting.

[(PSN)Raygun_X_]

On 1/8/2018 at 3:05 PM, INight00 said:

A vote system would be great.
It initiates in the chat window and allows three players to vote off one player resulting in them being kicked.

The vote mechanic (click/ buttons) can be the same as when you link and item, you click on it to perform a command.

This could be abused to kick lower MR players unfairly and create a toxic culture of you must have or be X to play X.

While true leaches are annoying...  They rarely will have a effect on the outcome of a instance... and it happens rarely enough not to implement a system that can do more harm then good.

[INight00]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Raygun_X_ said:

This could be abused to kick lower MR players unfairly and create a toxic culture of you must have or be X to play X.

Yes. It can.
Tell me you read the 7 posts above you.

[(PSN)Raygun_X_]

28 minutes ago, INight00 said:

Yes. It can.
Tell me you read the 7 posts above you.

Again it would allow for a toxic environment...

You want people to be able to alert a low MR that the team wants to kick them.

So they get a vote and that will make it ok...no

How will that make people feel if they are new and trying to figure stuff out?

It will send a message to a low MR player they are not welcome. 

I don't like thier MR .. Frame .. Weapon..  Clan... Name... Our friend just logged in let's kick this guy..  This will happen. 

Let's not forget alot of people will just follow because they don't care either way... or  Oh kick vote .. I guess there must be a reason .. I'll vote yes...  Not to mention the I'll just vote yes so i dont get yelled at or a nasty psn message sent to me.

Makes way more problems than it solves.