Ember's WoF discussion; Does it deserve the hate?

[(XBOX)weedyodaa]

Yes. I'm the boogyman that creeps around the corner, stealing kills on Hydron, keeping the tenno on edge as I throw down pizzas, getting quick and easy energy with a build for WoF that lasts for an eternity. Yeah, I'm that guy. Jokes aside, does she really deserve all the hate she recieves from other players? Me, being a personal fan of playing Ember, find her fun and lazy. Some complain about that, but what about the Nuke Banshee? Why hate on an Ember when you can't even see the enemies leave their spawn areas from a screeching Banshee when she can effortlessly finish a FULL game of Hydron for about 10 or 15 waves in around 5-10 minutes? Maybe less? Anyways, I've played multiple games of Hydron, only to be called out for having a build for my WoF, and I just tell them the same thing. Don't hate the player, hate the game. People shouldn't get mad for how something was programmed to function that way, and for me to get called out for it seems unnecessary. 

[Voltage]

Ember isn't even the slightest over powered or anything of that sort. World on Fire doesn't scale. People get mad because they want fairness and want everyone to have equal kills. That's why the Telos Boltace was nerfed into oblivion, why Synoid Simulor is now junk, and why Maiming Strike is in the headlights.

This is a PvE game, and complaining about things like WoF is beyond me as it makes your mission easier and more efficient.

Edited January 9, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[xXDeadsinxX]

Yes, she really does deserve the hate. However, she is a very squishy frame which kinda balances it. A lot of Warframes work just like Ember’s WoF. You press the ability once, and that’s it. Like you said, a Nuke Banshee is just as interactive as Ember’s WoF ability. It’s interesting how DE is against abilities that are not interactive but leave some of the abilities in the game. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by xXDeadsinxX
Changed Wording a bit

[forsenK]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Mythical Warden said:

People shouldn't get mad for how something was programmed

Eh, that means we should be happy and accepting with any bugs in the game as well. Besides, I have no real problem with Ember as long as the Tenno controlling it doesn't just run to the end and say "OMG you guys are slow hurry up". 

[ArchangelusAlpharius]

This is probably just an Xbone thing. Here on PC, no one cares what you bring to an exp farming mission, unless you are getting downed every 5 seconds, use some form of deliberate visual cancer, or are a limbo troll.

[aligatorno]

I wouldn't compare Ember and Banshee. 

Banshee's Quake build can only be used in certain scenarios, so it has limited use. Ember on the other hand has no such limitation since she can move while her AoE is active, cheesing every type of non-archwing missions in the game.  

[Cryptix123]

I hate her because new players don't get to play the game while she's around. I remember the survival where I never saw a living enemy, just corpses and damage numbers in the distance.

[(XBOX)calvina]

7 minutes ago, ArchangelusAlpharius said:

This is probably just an Xbone thing. Here on PC, no one cares what you bring to an exp farming mission, unless you are getting downed every 5 seconds, use some form of deliberate visual cancer, or are a limbo troll.

Not an Xbox issue, at least in my general play. Peeps over here generally like the relaxation afforded by a mass killframe.

----

My opinion of Ember, I don't mind her in midgame/lategame content with seasoned players who are already acquainted with the grind, however on low tier content with new players, that's just asking to ruin the fun and more often than not, push people away

Edited January 9, 2018 by (XB1)calvina

[--Q--XFA]

I love having her around. 

Gives me time to afk, forums, facebook, youtube, look for movies to watch, improve my ad on for trade, and etc.

(only read the title xD)

[Voltage]

5 minutes ago, Cryptix123 said:

I hate her because new players don't get to play the game while she's around. I remember the survival where I never saw a living enemy, just corpses and damage numbers in the distance.

I hate veterans because they play more efficiently and don't slow down for newer players in pubs. 

/s

[forsenK]

3 minutes ago, --Q--XFA said:

I love having her around. 

Gives me time to afk, forums, facebook, youtube, look for movies to watch, improve my ad on for trade, and etc.

(only read the title xD)

I bet you're in a defense mission right now with an ember. I like you. 

[Sajochi]

It comes down to whether or not you're allowing other players to contribute. Embers design, much like other aoe frames, can rob other players of gameplay. Now that isn't to say playing ember is wrong, it's down to player to make a conscious decision to let others play. 

As for ember, wof needs obvious windows of power that can be achieved through intuitive and active gameplay. Setting and forgetting isn't either of those. Move WoF to Embers passive, give it a stacking mechanic like Nidus and make it a lot stronger with the fallbacks. Just make having a srong aoe worth it to work towards. Just my 2 cents. 

[Midrib]

Don't deflect, Ember doesn't get a pass because Banshee exists, and both of their ults are incredibly lazy and boring. 

I'm fine with S#&$ being powerful as long as you are active while using said S#&$, thats why i really don't mind powerful stuff like Opticor and Titania/Ivara/Excal Exalted weapons, because you are actively using them and being active while using them. Ember's WoF and Banshee's SQ aren't like that and thus need to be changed.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Midrib

[xXDeadsinxX]

13 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

complaining about things like WoF is beyond me as it makes your mission easier and more efficient.

I partly agree with you. The thing that really does bug me, is the fact how interactive the ability is. You press the button once, and that’s all the activity you will have with the ability in a mission.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

My problem with the ability is that I think it’s a lazy design. I never liked the ability since I started playing Warframe. I just think there are countless ways to change her alt instead of the one she has now.

[Voltage]

3 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

I partly agree with you. The thing that really does bug me, is the fact how interactive the ability is. You press the button once, and that’s all the activity you will have with the ability in a mission.

There will always be a more efficient method. If they nerf Ember, then Equinox ends up on the cutting board, and then Octavia. This mentality of trying to make everything "interactive" ruined Miasma, and it ruined Bladestorm. Let's stop this trend of trying to keep a PvE game fair for all players instead of letting abilities remain.

Not every ability should require 4 button presses to kill a few enemies. World on Fire is fine the way it is.

Edited January 9, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[kyori]

I love ember n banshee on hydron, they contribute to most of my focus farming. 

I don't hate ember or banshee, they can't kill sh*t in sortie 3 eximus stronghold missions.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

7 minutes ago, Midrib said:

Don't deflect, Ember doesn't get a pass because Banshee exists, and both of their ults are incredibly lazy and boring. 

I’ll give Banshee a pass. Her ult isn’t as bad as Embers. I don’t see either of them as lazy but more of just a lazy ability design. Like no actual thought was trying to make them unique so they just choose the default/lazy route and just give them a continuous aoe ability. 

Like Ember deals with fire! Best ability that DE came up with for her 4th is what we have now?? 

Edited January 9, 2018 by (XB1)Cash201293

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

She gets some hate because of the "Push 4 to win."  Some players aren't happy unless they have to push a ton of buttons and overlap a bunch of complicated powers or weapons to get the same result.  Then they pat themsleves on the back for being "skilled".  

For the rest of us, Ember is great at clearing out trash mobs so we can finish low level alerts with a minimum of fuss.  

[MagPrime]

Blanket answer; yes.

In depth answer; Yes.  Most Ember players I've known will take her into lower level missions and just map wipe because they find it faster and easier.  The main problem with this is 95% of the time, they're in Public matchmaking, which puts them with newer players who actually want to participate in the mission.  But, having an older player with a max range/strength WoF Ember who has 200 pancakes on hotkey...  

The ability itself isn't the problem, it's how it's be used that's causing the issues.  If Ember were seen in more higher level content and less lower level content, I'm willing to be it would be a drastically different conversation. 

[xXDeadsinxX]

1 minute ago, --Q--Voltage said:

There will always be a more efficient method. If they nerf Ember, then Equinox ends up on the cutting board, and then Octavia. This mentality ruined Miasma, and it ruined Bladestorm. Let's stop this trend of trying to keep a PvE game fair for all players instead of letting abilities remain.

That is true, yes. That doesn’t mean they’re not able to change the way they work though. They can still change the way certain abilities work, mechanically. It just depends on how DE changes the ability, could be for the good, or for the bad. But, the interactive abilites do need a change to them. We already know that DE doesn’t like abilities that are not active enough with the player, so I’m curious if they will change the way other abilities will work. Time will tell.

[DarthBane1]

10 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

I partly agree with you. The thing that really does bug me, is the fact how interactive the ability is. You press the button once, and that’s all the activity you will have with the ability in a mission.

And this is what killed Ash. People complaining about nuke powers. 

[Hypernaut1]

WoF doesnt kill enemies in higher content. Its just an aura of constantly burning (and falling with aug) enemies. I dont hang around low levels that much, so i really dont get the big issue with Ember. 

I just dont see WoF as a kill enemy ability when it counts. Its more of a damage aura. She can buff the damage at times, but then she is using up a ton of energy.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Voltage]

4 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Most Ember players I've known will take her into lower level missions and just map wipe because they find it faster and easier.  The main problem with this is 95% of the time, they're in Public matchmaking, which puts them with newer players who actually want to participate in the mission.  But, having an older player with a max range/strength WoF Ember who has 200 pancakes on hotkey...

So we can't allow veteran players to kill faster than newbies? That doesn't seem right. If a player quits a game or gets bored because a veteran has more gear than them and is more efficient, then they wouldn't enjoy Warframe or any MMO for that matter.

Edited January 9, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[PatternistSlave]

32 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Mythical Warden said:

Yes. I'm the boogyman that creeps around the corner, stealing kills on Hydron, keeping the tenno on edge as I throw down pizzas, getting quick and easy energy with a build for WoF that lasts for an eternity. Yeah, I'm that guy. Jokes aside, does she really deserve all the hate she recieves from other players? Me, being a personal fan of playing Ember, find her fun and lazy. Some complain about that, but what about the Nuke Banshee? Why hate on an Ember when you can't even see the enemies leave their spawn areas from a screeching Banshee when she can effortlessly finish a FULL game of Hydron for about 10 or 15 waves in around 5-10 minutes? Maybe less? Anyways, I've played multiple games of Hydron, only to be called out for having a build for my WoF, and I just tell them the same thing. Don't hate the player, hate the game. People shouldn't get mad for how something was programmed to function that way, and for me to get called out for it seems unnecessary. 

Much like Limbo or Banshee or a great many frames, it's about respectful usage.  Hydron?  Some random exterminate?  Who cares.  A survival where you're running around with max range screwing up the spawns?  Not so cool.