Kicking freeloaders out of squad

[FashionFrame]

Just now, MagPrime said:

And then there's you...

What about me?

[Cubewano]

I know you can manually report them via the zendesk, but yes if we lack an in-game category for afk'ing or leeching that definitely needs adding. 

Don't think we need to go the extent of a vote kick system though as that just opens up a whole other can of worms in exchange. 

[Cryptix123]

No. No vote kick. Don't need to say how many times I went to go help my mom or gf get the groceries out of the car on a defense mission only to find out everyone aborted mission even though I said I was going afk for a few minutes...

[saradonin]

6 hours ago, INight00 said:

At most, screen shot and report to support.
Even better if you can get them to talk and gloat about doing nothing.

There is an afk/ leech/ kick/ help/ etc forum post every 2 days on average. Surely something will be done about it... surely.

I do that, because parasitic behaviour is becoming a common thing. Look at the kuva siphons/floods, every 4-5 missions there is one freeloader, doing absolutely nothing, sitting at spawn till the end of the mission. It's getting out of hand, soon enough half of the community will play afk, leech on others effort and claim this isn't a thing.

To be honest, I think reporting this is a waste of their (DE support team) time. I'm quite sure they do have more pressing issues, bugs, account related stuff etc. Nonetheless I will continue to do that (waste their time), until this problem is properly addressed. Why? Because they waste mine. Doing nothing and pretending the problem doesn't exist wastes my time, because everytime some leecher is afk, I have to wait for timer to run out before I can end the mission and claim my rewards.

Edited January 23, 2018 by saradonin

[(PSN)GrottanGo]

18 hours ago, (PS4)zer0_0s0k said:

Say you are doing an assassination mission and someone just sits in the starting room until it’s over, and overal just wastes the time of the others they are “playing” with. Don’t you think I should be able to kick him out? Personnally i don’t think he deserves the quest completion rewards, heck this should go on record and he should then be put in squads with ppl that act like he does. 

Or maybe add a new report option, since this doesn’t really constitue harassment or spam or any of the options.

 

what does the community think?

I once entered a def mission on wave 3 and didn't get any reward "due to inactivity", I think it's the same if someone just goes afk from the start.

[vvhorus]

16 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

There is an option to report leeches.

I have done it a number of times and support has also replied me that the offenders have been punished accordingly.

You just need screenshots and/or videos for proof when you report them.

Helps keep the game clean when you help to remove these kind of people.

Kicking option is intentionally not available as far as I am aware. It has been asked for before but till now, it is not available.

While it might seem helpful, kicking options can result in very bad misuse as well.

Imagine if a person do not like to play with Limbos or if the person just dislike a certain loadout, starting a vote kick will be really easy and usually, the rest of the team, either due to lack of time for judgement or simply ease, will click on yes and send a player packing for doing nothing wrong.

Anyway, manual reports to support are taken seriously and punishments are typically pretty harsh bans so if you are certain a leech or toxic player is present, get the proof while you are playing, create a ticket and send to support.

That player will be gone for a while.

For leechers, take screenshots of their position. Usually they will be on high ledges or starting position.

Next take a screenshot of the final mission progress, particularly the damage%, the kill count and abilities used.

Also, take the loadout by pressing Esc.

This usually forms a solid case if a person uses a well levelled loadout, has low to none damage %, has low to single digits or none kill count/abilities used in a defense or survival.

It is only difficult to catch such people in spy mission. You will need video proof for that.

To be fair, I've joined extermination missions already in progress where the other three squadmates in front of me basically clear out the path and I've ended up with just a couple of kills at the most. That doesn't make me a leecher, even though I ended up with zero to 2 kills. Would a screenshot of the mission results merit punishment for me?

Another point: how do you prove intent to leech? The person might just be in the bathroom, phone rings, or another common life event that takes priority over a survival mission. Life happens. A screenshot will only show the player standing still at the moment you took it. This could lend itself for abuse as well. You don't know if the player's game is still loading, or if he/she stood up for something. You just took a screenshot of that player standing at the beginning of the map without any kind of context except your word...

Don't get me wrong, I hate leechers as much as the next player (it is actually one of my biggest pet peeves in the game), but what can DE realistically do about it? Can they really track all player activity and determine that they were leeching based on inactivity, or do they rely solely on player accounts, which could be potentially biased, misinformed, and/or ill-intended? What's the punishment that you say DE gave to the leechers that you reported? Bans from the game? Highly doubt it. You were probably told that so they could close the support tickets. I just carry on and worry about my own performance...

[MagPrime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)GrottanGo said:

I once entered a def mission on wave 3 and didn't get any reward "due to inactivity", I think it's the same if someone just goes afk from the start.

Only if the game tags them as inactive first.  

What you encountered may have been a bug, but once someone has been immobile for a certain amount of time, they'll be tagged.  

The issue with the system is that it's so limited and easy to circumvent; just move a but before the system taga you and you're fine. Most leeches know this, so relying on the AFK system to let "justice" only works on the new and inexperienced leeches.

[EvilDarknessAlien]

i dont know why people start play and left? have heart attack and die in front pc? 

[Host_Migration]

LF Hydron CP leech here

[TARINunit9]

This thread has given me an idea

Now, normally I agree with the people who say "we should not have any kind of kick option, it would be abused". My suggestion here, however, is that a person can only be kicked if they have gone AFK, because the game actually has an AFK detector

It's possible to tell when someone has gone AFK when their Aura mod no longer works. This is traditionally after 120 seconds of remaining immobile, even if they are killing enemies with their weapons and warframe powers

Basically if no player is AFK, the option to kick doesn't show up and can't be accessed. But if someone has gone AFK, the option to votekick will appear in the pause menu

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

3 hours ago, vvhorus said:

To be fair, I've joined extermination missions already in progress where the other three squadmates in front of me basically clear out the path and I've ended up with just a couple of kills at the most. That doesn't make me a leecher, even though I ended up with zero to 2 kills. Would a screenshot of the mission results merit punishment for me?

Another point: how do you prove intent to leech? The person might just be in the bathroom, phone rings, or another common life event that takes priority over a survival mission. Life happens. A screenshot will only show the player standing still at the moment you took it. This could lend itself for abuse as well. You don't know if the player's game is still loading, or if he/she stood up for something. You just took a screenshot of that player standing at the beginning of the map without any kind of context except your word...

Don't get me wrong, I hate leechers as much as the next player (it is actually one of my biggest pet peeves in the game), but what can DE realistically do about it? Can they really track all player activity and determine that they were leeching based on inactivity, or do they rely solely on player accounts, which could be potentially biased, misinformed, and/or ill-intended? What's the punishment that you say DE gave to the leechers that you reported? Bans from the game? Highly doubt it. You were probably told that so they could close the support tickets. I just carry on and worry about my own performance...

Well, to report the person, much effort in screenshots and also going to the support site and starting a ticket is taken.

It is too much trouble for the typical troll to get some light giggles and the punishment for being potentially found out as a troll is not light either. Accounts can be banned.

There is also no "reward" other than a reply from support thanking you for reporting and saying that action has been taken against another player.

As such, the likelihood of false reports is low (though not impossible). I am sure support does have other data not available to us and this may be things like inventory data or even mission participation data since they are able to check and give us back lost items and also our profiles shows how many enemies kills and a plethora of other stats.

[Foreigndevil]

A lot of what people are asking for here is wrong. "We want a tool to vote-kick leechers" How do you prevent this from being abused, trolled? How do you make sure players don't kick someone who's buffing the team like Trinity even though they aren't really getting kills? Should some beginner kid who is just trying their best and playing poorly also quality for leeching?

DE has the answer (sort of). The real solution is an automated tool to detect user actions. DE's current implementation is insufficient though - since it's easy for smart leechers to just turn on some macros to run about and take programmed "random" shots based on random number generators. DE's current solution also punishes the players who should be standing still like a quaking Banshee.

What really needs to happen is that DE needs to invest some time and resources to build better leech detection tools. Maybe some machine learning logic to detect: (1) when players flag someone as a potential leech it adds permanent marks to their account which weigh against them. (2) whether the person is chatting with the rest of the team (3) what type of movements they are making - is their mouse looking around, are they just twirling in place or are they jumping/sliding/aiming and moving toward enemies (4) how much damage or buffs they are creating for the team. Etc. With Machine Learning weighing these detection mechanics against who players flag as leechers, DE could refine their detection algorithms to flag and punish leechers much more effectively. Using a model like this, they could actually react and improve their action to combat when people use more improved bots/macros to afk/leech.

...I'm not holding my breath though

[Endriago-Hunter]

On 1/22/2018 at 4:33 PM, Varacal said:

too bad it still counts towards their sortie completion

This.

Limbo's are the worst.

20 hours ago, MagPrime said:

It's internet mythos.  I've met plenty of unpleasant Canadians. 

Like myself! Proud to break that ridiculous stereotype. 

[tolivetodie]

Bad idea , people would use it to kick anybody they didn't see fit even though those who kicked did nothing wrong...

[Chimiasai]

At least, it would be better to being able to report leechers and if someone receive enough reports, the matchmaking will put the leech with others leechers until he actively play a number of missions (He also receive a mail from the lotus saying about he shouldn't accept operations and being lazy).

It would be a double sentence: The leech isn't able to find groups like he did before and he's now obliged to play actively in missions.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

On 23/01/2018 at 8:29 AM, FashionFrame said:

Then he won't get a reward. DE already has a system that someone standing around doing nothing gets no end mission rewards. 

However in poe some will just go fishing or doing something else which is not considered afk. There should be a system if you are not in range of the mission area you wont get drops. Or the game should detect that you are at least running towards it.

[vvhorus]

On 1/23/2018 at 7:56 PM, Foreigndevil said:

What really needs to happen is that DE needs to invest some time and resources to build better leech detection tools. Maybe some machine learning logic to detect: (1) when players flag someone as a potential leech it adds permanent marks to their account which weigh against them. (2) whether the person is chatting with the rest of the team (3) what type of movements they are making - is their mouse looking around, are they just twirling in place or are they jumping/sliding/aiming and moving toward enemies (4) how much damage or buffs they are creating for the team. Etc. With Machine Learning weighing these detection mechanics against who players flag as leechers, DE could refine their detection algorithms to flag and punish leechers much more effectively. Using a model like this, they could actually react and improve their action to combat when people use more improved bots/macros to afk/leech.

Apologies, but I disagree with these suggestions. They may be well intentioned, but they all easily lend themselves for abuse/misuse.

1. What prevents me from trolling and wrongfully flagging you, even if you're playing normally? You would get a "permanent mark" on your profile just because I felt like it. Trolls would have a field day with this.

2. I hardly ever use chat in missions. Would that be a punishable offense? Would I be required to type something so this algorithm doesn't flag me?

3. What would be the server toll for tracking every single movement/button-click that tens of thousands of players make every second? Can you imagine the lag this could potentially create?

4. What if I don't use any abilities that create buffs, like just killing enemies with guns or melee, or I'm too far away to share my affinity?

[DiabolusUrsus]

Best solution I've seen is simply letting players mark other players to avoid matching with them ever again.

It's simple, effective, and practically impossible to abuse... And it means that a habitual leech will eventually only be able to match with other leeches.