(PSN)thefallenloser Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) (I am not sorry about this title.) Me again! If you've even seen me around before... Well then, that was a... pretty. Odd. Intro. Okay, let's get to the main topic. After Zephyr gets her incoming revisit we have the One-Punch Master, Atlas! Atlas isn't the best as of now. Great first-- oddly enough, crappy second, meh third, unreliable fourth. How can we fix Atlas? I've seen quite a few different things on how to make Atlas better, but many of them, if not all, will never achieve the amazingness (yes, amazingness) of what I'll show you here and now! So, we make Atlas rock hard, give him added synergies, keep his theme, and stay within his pre-existing abilities. Here we go! ______________________________________________________ The One-Punch Knockout Atlas Revisit! (insert hard jokes here) 1ST - Landslide - This ability is fairly solid (get it). Does massive amounts of impact damage over a wide enough range in a fair area. This ability doesn't need much change, however, there's always room for improvement. Very minor, but still, improvement. slight tweak - Landslide Uppercut is a knockdown, Atlas can target knocked over enemies w/ Landslide combo duration diminishes for each successive strike i.e. first hit - 3 second window, second hit - 2 second window, 3+ hits - 1 second window synergies! synergizes with Tectonics and Rumblers 2ND - Tectonics - Why would I use this ability? There's really no use to it. To make this even remotely useful, there needs to be quite a few changes. increase the damage roll damage = 600 impact damage per second explosion damage = 1200 impact and blast damage add on to mechanics roll until collision of surface or manual detonation rolling Tectonics pick up speed and damage over time Tectonics explosion ragdolls enemies holding ability key will increase the size of the wall stage 1 (button press) - current size, damage, and range stage 2 - size doubled (in width and height), damage and (explosion) range increased by 50% stage 3 - size tripled (in width and height), damage and (explosion) range increased by 100% synergies! casting Landslide on Tectonics will cause Atlas to punch the wall sends forth a wave of rock shards that pierce the enemy to death deals Tectonics' roll damage (based on stage) + Landslide damage in the form of puncture and slash affected by Landslide melee mods (but only 50% as effective) pins enemies to walls synergizes with Petrify casting Petrify will heal the wall over time 3RD - Petrify - This ability could be pretty great, however, there are some stupid mechanics that over-limit the potential. The general concept doesn't need to be changed too much, but mechanics need to be adjusted. mechanical adjustments enemies in Petrify's range have a 50% chance to be knocked down every 0.5 seconds adding on power duration shortens the time in between each knockdown chance allow range to also affect the angle power duration affects how fast Atlas Petrifies enemies petrify reduces armor by 10% per second in the Petrify range (scales with power strength, maxed at 50%) Atlas is slowed by 30% while using Petrify and can only use secondary weapons allow for single jump animation tweaks Atlas now fires his gaze through an eye on his hand synergizes with Rumblers and Tectonics 4TH - Rumblers - The general concept of Rumblers is pretty amazing, but it does lack just a bit. Mechanics aren't that great when it comes to taking on higher level enemies and the Rumblers struggle to keep up. They're slow and while they do offer aggro, they don't make up for it with their damage. Nullifiers drain health over time, as opposed to outright killing Rumblers mechanical adjustments allow the Rumbler damage to be modified via melee mods (only 75% as effective) speed of Rumblers is modifiable by power strength and not range Rumblers' ranged attack guarantees a knockdown and can pin enemies to walls ranged attack increases with distance give Rumbler arms a further reach when attacking synergies! casting Landslide on a Rumbler will cause Atlas to wear that Rumbler as armor, which offers damage reduction based on the percentage of remaining Rumbler health recasting Rumblers while Atlas is wearing the armor will cause it to explode outwards, while also pushing back nearby enemies casting Petrify on Rumblers will gradually restore health to them (based on ability strength and duration) at a rate of 75 health per second ability strength increases health restored per second ability range increases the rate at which health is restored Passive - Immovable - Honestly, this is a great passive, and completely eliminates the use of Handspring since Atlas NEVER TAKES THE FALL! As long as you're on the ground, you can stay in the battle forever! And that concludes this post! Thank you so much for reading, and let me know your thoughts on tweaks for Atlas below. I know, this is jam-packed with little tweaks, additions, changes, and synergies. However, these would make Atlas one amazing Frame and allows him to be brought way later into the game while also providing his team more backup than he currently can. One more little note. About the previously mentioned Zephyr, I also have a revisit for her that I'll leave at the bottom of this post where we add so much more greatness to he! Once again, thanks for reading! Spoiler Edited January 30, 2018 by (PS4)ArtPrince17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Censium Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Yes. I love everything about this. It's a modification, not a complete re haul. Keeps his spirit intact but making him functional outside of constant punching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)TheHypothes Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 An idea I had for Rumblers too: Any damage they deal and receive accumulates, and when they're deactivated by death/manual/timer, that damage value increases the damage and range of their explosion. I still believe Tectonic Fracture should be swapped to the main skill, with the current norm being the Augment (along with significant buff to the Boulder). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thefallenloser Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, (PS4)Vagnar said: I still believe Tectonic Fracture should be swapped to the main skill, with the current norm being the Augment (along with significant buff to the Boulder). I tried to eliminate the need to use that mod by adding in the three-stage charge. This three stage charge could quite possibly give you a bigger defense then all three of those walls! 16 minutes ago, Censium said: Yes. I love everything about this. It's a modification, not a complete re haul. Keeps his spirit intact but making him functional outside of constant punching Thanks a lot! I wish all people who give rework suggestions keep that in mind since we don't want to completely overhaul them if we don't need to. I'll try to do this for every Frame who needs a revisit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)jFresh215 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I was gonna post this exact idea yesterday, couldn't get into a full on rework for atlas at that time though. 38 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: casting Landslide on Tectonics will cause Atlas to punch the wall sends forth a wave of rock shards that pierce the enemy to death deals Tectonics' roll damage (based on stage) + Landslide damage in the form of puncture and slash affected by Landslide melee mods (but only 50% as effective) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleBeach Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: combo duration diminishes for each successive strike i.e. first hit - 3 second window, second hit - 2 second window, 3+ hits - 1 second window Unnecessary but also not a big buff so it doesn't matter to me either way. The skill is amazing, don't be greedy. My main problem with Landslide is that you can't target rag dolled enemies, leaving you standing there looking for enemies to punch before you die. 39 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: 2ND - Tectonics - Why would I use this ability? There's really no use to it. Mobile Defense, reviving Allies, Hacking targets, walling off doors in excavation. They're niche and not exactly powerful but it has common uses. 39 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: holding ability key will increase the size of the wall This would be very annoying. You can't shoot through his walls. It's not meant to be as strong as Snow Globe or Vitrify. It's a point defense skill. It should be small but also make it the strongest wall in the game. it only makes sense and right now it's pretty squishy for a wall. 39 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: 3RD - Petrify - This ability could be pretty great, however, there are some stupid mechanics that over-limit the potential. The general concept doesn't need to be changed too much, but mechanics need to be adjusted. mechanical adjustments enemies in Petrify's range have a 50% chance to be knocked down every 0.5 seconds adding on power duration shortens the time in between each knockdown chance power duration affects how fast Atlas Petrifies enemies petrify reduces armor by 15% per second in the Petrify range (scales with power strength, maxed at 50%) Atlas is slowed by 30% while using Petrify and can only use secondary weapons allow for single jump animation tweaks Atlas now fires his gaze through an eye on his hand synergizes with Rumblers What does the knockdown achieve? They are stoned pretty quickly, contrary to what everyone keeps saying. Its issue is that everyone not in the cone is still shooting you and makes the skill impractical to use. Why change the stoning speed from strength to duration??? Armor reduction idea is ok but also too powerful with your numbers. Outside of camping a narrow entry which is only useful on endurance runs, Petrify is still impractical to use. 39 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: 4TH - Rumblers - mechanical adjustments allow the Rumbler damage to be modified via melee mods (only 75% as effective) speed of Rumblers is modifiable by power strength and not range Rumblers' ranged attack guarantees a knockdown and can pin enemies to walls ranged attack increases with distance give Rumbler arms a further reach when attacking synergies! casting Landslide on a Rumbler will cause Atlas to wear that Rumbler as armor, which offers damage reduction based on the percentage of remaining Rumbler health recasting Rumblers while Atlas is wearing the armor will cause it to explode outwards, while also pushing back nearby enemies casting Petrify on Rumblers will gradually restore health to them (based on ability strength and duration) at a rate of 75 health per second ability strength increases health restored per second ability range increases the rate at which health is restored Their damage doesn't really need a buff. Speed of Rumblers should just be constant. I think their ranged attack already does guarantee a knockdown. Instead of further reaching arms, give them a short range dash punch. It doesn't need to be any stronger or anything, just get them to acquire new targets quicker. They're too slow to have an impact on the battlefield and they could use a health buff. Landsliding your rumbler is a bad idea. I would hit them on accident with Landslide all the time and that should be an augment mod if it were to exist. Petrify healing rumblers (and wall) makes sense. All of your synergy ideas are "cool" but don't really fix any of Atlas's glaring issues. Because you did it, here's my thread lol. I do plan on changing the Petrify idea I used in my OP for a more tweak based one. Edited January 23, 2018 by MuscleBeach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)TheHypothes Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 The only thing I don't like about the bigger wall over Tectonic Fracture is the 3 walls vs 1. I use Atlas at every level of the game and I really really enjoy having the multiplacement. Eh whatever. Everyone thinks he sucks anyway. Lost cause lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleBeach Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, (PS4)Vagnar said: Eh whatever. Everyone thinks he sucks anyway. Lost cause lol Lol! He's not a lost cause. He's far from sucking. He just has 1 great build and 2.5 bad abilities :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thefallenloser Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said: Mobile Defense, reviving Allies, Hacking targets, walling off doors in excavation. They're niche and not exactly powerful but it has common uses. But the wall is only about as big as Atlas himself... Unless enemies are only coming at you from one direction it's pretty unreliable for being a defense ability. There are too many wide areas in Warframe for it to be used effectively. 7 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said: This would be very annoying. You can't shoot through his walls. It's not meant to be as strong as Snow Globe or Vitrify. It's a point defense skill. It should be small but also make it the strongest wall in the game. it only makes sense and right now it's pretty squishy for a wall. And it still won't be as strong as Snow Globe or Mass Vitrify. It's one wall that only blocks frontal attacks. It's not intended to be gigantic on max size. 10 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said: What does the knockdown achieve? They are stoned pretty quickly, contrary to what everyone keeps saying. Its issue is that everyone not in the cone is still shooting you and makes the skill impractical to use. Why change the stoning speed from strength to duration??? Armor reduction idea is ok but also too powerful with your numbers. Outside of camping a narrow entry which is only useful on endurance runs, Petrify is still impractical to use. The knockdown is exactly for the purpose of people attacking you while in the animation. That gives it the practicality. And yes, while it is quick on paper, the amount of time it takes to Petrify enemies is actually fairly great in a game as fast as Warframe. Also, the change to duration just matches it up with the other Duration based abilities, but hey, might be moon logic. I also tuned down the armor reduction rates. 17 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said: Their damage doesn't really need a buff. Speed of Rumblers should just be constant. I think their ranged attack already does guarantee a knockdown. Instead of further reaching arms, give them a short range dash punch. It doesn't need to be any stronger or anything, just get them to acquire new targets quicker. They're too slow to have an impact on the battlefield and they could use a health buff. You and I think the opposite ways on this one then. I believe that their health is fine and their damage could be increase for better scaling, lol. 19 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said: Landsliding your rumbler is a bad idea. I would hit them on accident with Landslide all the time and that should be an augment mod if it were to exist. Petrify healing rumblers (and wall) makes sense. It would require direct targeting and not general aim. 20 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said: All of your synergy ideas are "cool" but don't really fix any of Atlas's glaring issues. Please give me some of your thoughts on the issues that I seemed to have missed. 22 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said: Because you did it, here's my thread lol. I do plan on changing the Petrify idea I used in my OP for a more tweak based one. I'll check it out later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cursedmoon13 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Very much like what I was thinking, which is good, because I'm lazy and don't want to make a new topic. That said, I don't agree with everything. The knockdown on Petrify seems a bit redundant, since enemies in the process of being stoned seemed to be simultaneously staggered and slowed already, so they're pretty well debilitated anyway. And the Landslide into Rumbler to get a rumbler suit is interesting, but I agree with @MuscleBeach thatit would be too easy to do it on accident. I too was thinking of ways in which Petrify could synergize without changing the core ability, since I actually like it pretty much as is (which seems to be a minority opinion). The rumbler healing was something I thought of as well, but I was also thinking that Petrify could also heal the wall, though maybe at a slower rate, since the wall is more of a "permanent until destroyed" kind of thing, and healing it too fast might make it effectively invulnerable; of course at high enough levels, any healing will not be able to keep up with enemy damage. The armor debuff from petrify is along the lines of other things I was thinking, and helps offset the "no status effects on stone enemies" thing, but is something I had not thought of. Other possibilities include: Stone enemies take more damage from Atlas' abilities, Petrify buffs Rumbler speed, damage, armor when they're in the cone, Rock walls get damage reduction while in the cone, or maybe just Stone enemies take more damage. But yes, instead of completely changing any of his abilities, I think Atlas' current abilities would be fine with some fairly minor tweaks, outside of Tectonics, which could really use the most work, though some kind of wall really does seem to fit best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleBeach Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: But the wall is only about as big as Atlas himself... Unless enemies are only coming at you from one direction it's pretty unreliable for being a defense ability. There are too many wide areas in Warframe for it to be used effectively. I used to think the wall was useless too. Keep in mind, I'm not saying it's great. I'm just saying it's not terrible. It's not meant to provide complete protection. It's for temporary and quick protection and to funnel enemies. That's it. I'd rank it as his second best ability, which is sad because it's really nothing special and on the weaker side (but not useless). 3 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: And it still won't be as strong as Snow Globe or Mass Vitrify. It's one wall that only blocks frontal attacks. It's not intended to be gigantic on max size. yes but 3x the width is pretty long. If I were to make a change to the wall, it's that it'd be curved. If it could give 190 degree protection but be a small pocket, they'd be great. It can even remain as is + your suggestion. quick click current wall. long click 180 degree wall. But a straight line that is 3x long and high is a nuisance as it blocks shots. Maybe just long would be ok but not height. 3 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: The knockdown is exactly for the purpose of people attacking you while in the animation. That gives it the practicality. And yes, while it is quick on paper, the amount of time it takes to Petrify enemies is actually fairly great in a game as fast as Warframe. Also, the change to duration just matches it up with the other Duration based abilities, but hey, might be moon logic. I also tuned down the armor reduction rates. I have no problems CCing what's in front of me instantly. The problem is it's a 60 degree cone. That leaves 300 degress of enemies still killing you. That's what I meant when I asked what the knockdown achieves. Your Petrify is still flawed because you're CCing a small group of the enemies while turning yourself into a sitting duck. That's one of the reasons I never use Petrify. 3 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: You and I think the opposite ways on this one then. I believe that their health is fine and their damage could be increase for better scaling, lol. I'm curious what build you run. 3 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: It would require direct targeting and not general aim. I know, I still think I'd hit my rumblers too often. This is purely my opinion, nothing factual to talk about here. 3 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: Please give me some of your thoughts on the issues that I seemed to have missed. I'm going to quote it from the OP of my thread because I've typed it out so many times in Atlas threads: On 10/26/2017 at 11:02 AM, MuscleBeach said: Atlas's issues: Survivability between punches is bad at sortie levels. I found a good solution but it requires Quick Thinking + (Primed) Flow + Rage+ Vitality. This has worked incredibly well but it's also 4 mods dedicated to staying alive which really limits how you can build Atlas. I've tested out focusing on armor, this works much much better. His skills, outside of Landslide, are subpar and there are no practical situations to use them instead of just casting more Landslides. Issue #2 is what you don't address fully. Issue #1 is a more minor issue as long as another build is viable, which I feel there isn't. Mainly the "Why use X ability when I can just Landslide again?" You did in some ways (and anyone trying to fix Rumblers is technically trying to fix this issue as that's his other build around skill). So my conclusion of your changes: Landslide: don't matter, as long as it's not a nerf. Tectonics: You suggested a bigger wall but being that it still covers only a frontal area, it's still providing minimal amount of protection. Using the wall for hacking and revives wasn't good enough for you. Your suggestion doesn't really add more to it still. Also, why block frontal attacks when I can just Landslide and kill them? Petrify: Still a cone that slows you down, making you a sitting duck while CCing only 16.66% of the circumference around you. Also, why CC what's in front of me instead of just killing them with Landslide and CCing what lives with a Rag Doll while staying invulnerable? Petrify healing rumblers and tectonics is a good idea but casting petrify is also a big liability mid combat. Rumblers: They have no battlefield presence. Frost presses 4 and the entire room is frozen for 10ish seconds and has reduced armor. Atlas presses 4 and makes 2 friends. Your changes don't change that. Maybe if they held aggro/lived longer (except you disagree that they're squishy, and on paper, they're definitely not) they'd be more useful to me. But damage. I watch them 1 shot things on sortie 3 but they attack so slow. That's why I say they need more speed/acquire new targets quicker/give them a small dash attack/more aggressive AI. I know I'm pretty critical of Atlas threads so sorry if I come off mean. He's my favorite warframe and I want him done right! Thanks for having a discussion/being open to criticism and not just saying "Well that's your opinion" which leaves nothing to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleBeach Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 20 minutes ago, cursedmoon13 said: But yes, instead of completely changing any of his abilities, I think Atlas' current abilities would be fine with some fairly minor tweaks, outside of Tectonics, which could really use the most work, though some kind of wall really does seem to fit best. I think only his recast of tectonics is completely and utterly trash. Like most useless skill in the game trash and I hate saying that. Keep in mind though, an overhaul of a skill probably won't happen anymore but adding additional effects (mirage's sleight of hand changes) are totally on the table. With that said, Petrify doesn't need an overhaul but there is SO much potential with that skill, it'd be really cool if they did redo it. But it can probably get by adequately with just an added effect. I'm thinking something simple like adding a circular aoe effect with less strength and less range. So the cone is still primary but your surroundings aren't 100% free to blow you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cursedmoon13 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, MuscleBeach said: I think only his recast of tectonics is completely and utterly trash. Like most useless skill in the game trash and I hate saying that. Keep in mind though, an overhaul of a skill probably won't happen anymore but adding additional effects (mirage's sleight of hand changes) are totally on the table. With that said, Petrify doesn't need an overhaul but there is SO much potential with that skill, it'd be really cool if they did redo it. But it can probably get by adequately with just an added effect. I'm thinking something simple like adding a circular aoe effect with less strength and less range. So the cone is still primary but your surroundings aren't 100% free to blow you up. What if the cone was like Hallowed ground, in that range increases the angle as well as the radius? I guess I don't really play sorties that much, and generally use invincible or invisible frames when I do, but I do worry that would become too strong. At the level I play at (mostly 30-40) I get pretty good all-around CC if I just turn around enough, since, as far as I recall, the stagger and/or slow before actual petrification lingers for a bit after you stop looking at them. I both like and don't like your recast idea in your own thread. the tiny rumbler seems to have a bit too much overlap with his 4, even if it is much better than the boulder, which I've never gotten any satisfying use out of. I guess having yet another minion around would help draw a bit more aggro off of you. Speaking of which, if Petrify were to heal the Rumblers, and rumblers were given some kind of aggro-drawing priority a la Molt or Decoy, would that solve some of your survivability issues? Rumblers might need a survivability tweak of their own, but it'd be a start. Otherwise, the recast for Tectonics could be just that the wall explodes, maybe with damage based on remaining health or damage absorbed. Wouldn't have the aiming problems of the boulder, but wouldn't be as "cool" in a certain sense. Now I'm just brainstorming, and you don't really need to pay any attention, but maybe if recasting tectonics exploded the wall, then Landslide into the wall could send a boulder in the direction of your attack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thefallenloser Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 8 hours ago, MuscleBeach said: yes but 3x the width is pretty long. If I were to make a change to the wall, it's that it'd be curved. If it could give 190 degree protection but be a small pocket, they'd be great. It can even remain as is + your suggestion. quick click current wall. long click 180 degree wall. But a straight line that is 3x long and high is a nuisance as it blocks shots. Maybe just long would be ok but not height. ^ That actually makes sense. I'll add that into the original post. 8 hours ago, MuscleBeach said: I have no problems CCing what's in front of me instantly. The problem is it's a 60 degree cone. That leaves 300 degress of enemies still killing you. That's what I meant when I asked what the knockdown achieves. Your Petrify is still flawed because you're CCing a small group of the enemies while turning yourself into a sitting duck. That's one of the reasons I never use Petrify. This is something that for some reason I seemed to have overlooked. How? Well, I was typing this thread a throughout the day, lol. However, I did add in the secondary function, jump function, and reduced movement speed reduction. Still, this does hurt a lot when there's a crowd of enemies all around. We can have the angle affected by the range on Atlas, up to a max of 180 degrees. 9 hours ago, MuscleBeach said: I'm curious what build you run. I'm going to be completely honest with you here. I haven't used Atlas since Specters of the Rail. Even so, his abilities never received any changes since then. I do have a good memory and I recall calling the boulders "tanky AF". I've also done extensive testing with friends in Sortie tier missions seeing if Atlas and his Rumblers can survive the entire fight. While my build might have changed a bit since then, I'm sure this is a much better build than what I used to have. Spoiler _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 9 hours ago, MuscleBeach said: Issue #2 is what you don't address fully. Issue #1 is a more minor issue as long as another build is viable, which I feel there isn't. Mainly the "Why use X ability when I can just Landslide again?" You did in some ways (and anyone trying to fix Rumblers is technically trying to fix this issue as that's his other build around skill). Maybe the above build can work good? Try it out and maybe get back to me on your thoughts. However, the issue could be solved with a mere health and armor increase. Issue 2 is something I tried to address but it's not there. Almost there! But not fully. I'll make quite a few more tweaks throughout the day and see where I can get this. 9 hours ago, MuscleBeach said: Petrify: Still a cone that slows you down, making you a sitting duck while CCing only 16.66% of the circumference around you. I don't know why this stood out to me, but I'm really curious as to whether or not you already knew or calculated that percentage, lol. 9 hours ago, MuscleBeach said: They have no battlefield presence. Frost presses 4 and the entire room is frozen for 10ish seconds and has reduced armor. Atlas presses 4 and makes 2 friends. Literally me when I read that. 9 hours ago, MuscleBeach said: I know I'm pretty critical of Atlas threads so sorry if I come off mean. He's my favorite warframe and I want him done right! Thanks for having a discussion/being open to criticism and not just saying "Well that's your opinion" which leaves nothing to talk about. Nope. I could never do that. I always try to keep an open mind. Especially when revisiting a Frame and someone who's clearly more knowledgeable than I drops some words of wisdom. Thank you for your feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleBeach Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: We can have the angle affected by the range on Atlas, up to a max of 180 degrees. 10 hours ago, cursedmoon13 said: What if the cone was like Hallowed ground, in that range increases the angle as well as the radius? I think this would help a lot with him not dying 2 seconds into channeling Petrify (keep in mind, most of my suggestions are for sortie levels as that's where I believe a skill should be useful at. It doesn't need to dominate, just be useful). You'll probably be forced to find a wall or use your tectonics to cover your rear still but this might make it usable. I still think this skill would be best in the form of an aura but that's probably too much change :( 11 hours ago, cursedmoon13 said: but I do worry that would become too strong. Actually, that is a very valid concern. The problem with Petrify is it hits few people but leaves you wide open to die. Being able to spin around in circles and CC an entire room for a dirt cheap skill can be too strong. Its narrow range stops this from being possible but widening it could make it an issue. Increasing the energy drain cost so that it can't be on forever is a solution. Making it an instant cast skill rather than a channel is another solution (one I don't think DE will make because I think that's too big of a change but I could be wrong). 11 hours ago, cursedmoon13 said: I both like and don't like your recast idea in your own thread. the tiny rumbler seems to have a bit too much overlap with his 4, even if it is much better than the boulder, which I've never gotten any satisfying use out of. I guess having yet another minion around would help draw a bit more aggro off of you. The mini-rumbler was my attempt at furthering a Rumbler build so that Atlas isn't just a punching warframe. Anything is better than the boulder, even not having a recast ability is better than it. The mini-rumbler also synergizes with my Petrify rework idea but that's unlikely to happen. 11 hours ago, cursedmoon13 said: Speaking of which, if Petrify were to heal the Rumblers, and rumblers were given some kind of aggro-drawing priority a la Molt or Decoy, would that solve some of your survivability issues? Rumblers might need a survivability tweak of their own, but it'd be a start. Yes it would. I tried the Titanic Rumbler augment (which gives the giant rumbler a taunt) and it didn't really do anything. I actually felt more vulnerable having 1 less rumbler around. Would it be enough to add taunt to them naturally? I don't know. Probably. That's something that would have to be tested. Maybe just make it so the Titanic Rumbler augment would still summon 2 Rumblers. That would not be overpowered and would actually provide some survivability as well as warframe modding options as Atlas is pretty stat intensive to make use of every skill. 11 hours ago, cursedmoon13 said: Otherwise, the recast for Tectonics could be just that the wall explodes, maybe with damage based on remaining health or damage absorbed. Wouldn't have the aiming problems of the boulder, but wouldn't be as "cool" in a certain sense. Now I'm just brainstorming, and you don't really need to pay any attention, but maybe if recasting tectonics exploded the wall, then Landslide into the wall could send a boulder in the direction of your attack... I like both of these suggestions a lot. Brainstorming ideas, even if it's not a good idea can hint at an actual plausible solution (this is why I kept a spoiler of the original post I made at the bottom of my thread). Sometimes your bad idea sparks a good idea in someone else's head. 3 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: Maybe the above build can work good? Try it out and maybe get back to me on your thoughts. However, the issue could be solved with a mere health and armor increase. Issue 2 is something I tried to address but it's not there. Almost there! But not fully. I'll make quite a few more tweaks throughout the day and see where I can get this. I'll give your build a try this week to see if it can handle sorties and report back. 3 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: I don't know why this stood out to me, but I'm really curious as to whether or not you already knew or calculated that percentage, lol. Calculated it while typing the message lol. I thought a percentage would better illustrate how little it hits vs saying 60 / 360 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleBeach Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 13 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: Maybe the above build can work good? Try it out and maybe get back to me on your thoughts. However, the issue could be solved with a mere health and armor increase. Issue 2 is something I tried to address but it's not there. Almost there! But not fully. I'll make quite a few more tweaks throughout the day and see where I can get this. Just soloed all 3 sorties and did a public kuva flood. + Rumblers did terrible damage. They couldn't really kill things on sortie 1. And I'm talking the basic infested unit, leaper. - Rumblers never died. + Rumblers appeared to keep some fire away from me. - Rumblers couldn't keep up with me. If is kipped 1 enemy, they would stay there forever cause they can't kill it, negating the previous +. - Titanic Rumbler is actually worse than using no augment. And I don't mean "I'd rather have Intesify rather than Titanic Rumbler". I mean, I'd rather have an empty mod slot than Titanic Rumbler augment. I could only use Landslide sparingly because the Rumblers require their own stat investments. The build did let me use Petrify a little (it kills me to say that). I understand why people say Petrify is slow cc. It's slow because Petrify Strength decays with distance. Up close enemies are instant. I would only use Petrify when getting completely swarmed since this build can't utilize Landslide well enough to clear a swarm out. Conclusion: Better than I expected but still falls on every point I made about them at the same time, except damage I said was fine but here it wasn't and I'm actually not sure why that is. They have no battlefield presence except visually. They are essentially an odd/inconsistent way of having damage avoidance, distractions. Definitely a gun focused play-style (Opticor, Akstiletto prime, Venka Prime). Basically Atlas has the best 1 in the game and no "ultimate" ability. They were not worth the loses to Landslide but you can argue that I just prefer that play style. And maybe it was because I was solo, but I really didn't feel like there were a lot of enemies so I also feel this test is partially inconclusive. Maybe I'll do a 60+ min survival later on to see how it handles swarms better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)RKPrime75 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I feel like they should redo his second, third, and fourth abilities. I think his second ability should be turned into a dmg reduction or an armor increase ability to help him survive better. Something like either Rhino's Iron Skin where his ability has a set health that scales with strength mods or just a dmg reduction buff like Trinity's Blessing that scales with strength and duration mods. His third ability should stay a crowd control ability but make it more useful. I feel like his third should be changed to an aoe attack that does a hard knockdown like the one bombards and heavy gunners do and it should scale with range and strength mods. And his fourth ability should have him turn into the rumbler like his conclave mod does, that way we don't have to rely on dumb AI. We should gain and increase in melee damage as well as armor and health, that has a base duration. The ability should scale with strength and duration mods. That's my opinion at least that would make Atlas a great Warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thefallenloser Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 3 hours ago, (Xbox One)RKPrime75 said: I feel like they should redo his second, third, and fourth abilities. Nope. We aren't changing any abilities. DE has stated in a TennoCon (2017) interview that they aren't making any new abilities for Warframes in need of a rework (because Limbo took them forever to make perfect). That being said on the most recent DevStream, they only said that Zephyr and Atlas need mere "stat buffs" which is so untrue, lol. We need a reason to use each and every abilty and that's what I tried to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I would like for Tectonics walls to have Resonator-level aggro pull so enemies are drawn to the Walls. Petrify- I do your like idea. I originally was thinking a rework where Petrify would be Atlas stone-gaze imbuing his weapons where Guns or Melee could turn enemies into stone. Beam weapon synergy where % Stone conversion rate is tied to fire-rate. Melee and Other non-beam weapons would convert to stone on a Percentage of enemy health loss. (Like opposite of wake-threshold on Sleep/Rest) So 25% of enemy health lost and they are turned to stone from melee/non-beam weapon attacks. (Might be Overpowered if Viral activates instant Stone conversion)* My thought was to make Petrify Toxic-Lash like but still being Stone related. Great Atlas revisit - really like the synergy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azamagon Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 On 2018-01-23 at 2:11 AM, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: -snip- I've seen quite a few different things on how to make Atlas better, but many of them, if not all, will never achieve the amazingness (yes, amazingness) of what I'll show you here and now! Ok, that's just not a good intro. In your Zephyr thread, you showed (over)confidence, but here you show play arrogance... Please lay that attitude off, ok? That aside, let's look at your suggestions: 1) Landslide Ok changes. 2) Tectonics - Rolling boulder would still be useless, sadly. It needs a REAL reason to roll around, like better range on its CC or something (think a rolling Vortex, basicly, that'd definitely be more useful). - Hold to make it bigger is interesting and useful. - Landslide wallshards are neat (not the first time I've seen it, have suggested similarly myself). 3) Petrify - Knockdown is BIG NO, at least with how Landslide is how it is right now. Why? Knockdown'd (as well as Ragdolled) enemies cannot be targettted by Landslide. Landslide's final hit already causes ragdoll too, so currently, using Petrify prior to punching means you can keep punching a tough enemy continuously. This suggestion of yours ruins that functionality. And, even if Landslide could punch ragolled/kd'd enemies, it just doesn't really fit to give Petrify knockdown, imo. - Why would he use his HAND to Petrify with? The fact that he uses his gaze is an homage to Medusa... Seems a bit pointless, no? 4) Rumblers Ok sugestions here as well. So, despite your rework being the self-proclaimed "most amazing" one (lol) , I still have a bunch of things to add: Landslide - Hold button for continuous useage (just QoL, as it would still work like now, just removing the need to mash the button). Possibly allow him to punch enemies who are ragdolled/knocked down, to get rid of anti-synergies between many other 'frames etc.Tectonics - Allow Atlas to roll with the boulder (press X near it), shielding him while closing distances. While the boulder rolls (wether by recasting or rolling with it, doesn't matter), it has a moderate gravity-radius, pulling in enemies towards it in a ragdolled state (a la Vortex). The wall could possibly be summoned at a slight distance (a la Decoy), and enemies near the wall when it is summoned could be knocked down (think; Mini-earthquake). Possibly give him 4 walls by default, with holdcasting being what causes the wall(s) to roll, which would allow him to use the walls both defensively (like, for protecting a console or w/e) while still also being able to use "spare" walls offensively or for mobility. Augment could be basicly anything else instead (Like; Stalagmite Reaction -> When the wall is attacked, it retaliates against its attackers with earthspikes, which deal 3/6/9/12% of the wall's hp as puncture damage. Cannot attack more than once per 2 sec per enemy.)Petrify - Make Petrified enemies grant health orbs (or simply a little "heal aoe") when killed, so he can sustain himself (and allies). Chance to drop could be equal to their petrification stage (so fully petrified = 100% drop chance). Make Petrify heal Tectonics walls too, not just Rumblers.Rumblers - While active, damage taken by Atlas could partially be redirect to his Rumbler buddies. Make Nullfiers either drain their health over time, or make them stunned while in the bubble, but don't outright kill them instantly. Their attacks contribute to Atlas' combo counter. Augment also needs a MASSIVE buff (numerically, and maybe also mechanically), or a complete revamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuryAdcom Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I think the suggestions for his 1 and his 4 are pretty nice. I'd add to his 4, the Rumblers, an extra attack, that they can make when they are summoned, like rolling out from Atlas while they are "building" up themselves. Now, I some other changes around the 2 and his 3, those would be the following: -For his 2, what I think would be a lil more "on character" is making the 2 a press or hold ability, how so? All right, let me explain first. What I think can be better for the 2 is, if the ability is pressed Atlas will just build a boulder and roll it in front of him, that instead of the wall. Now, I'm not really putting aside the wall, but instead make "cooler" way to build it, and that's why I suggested also holding the ability, so, when Atlas holds the 2 he starts charging up a punch, and when you charged it enough and release it, he'll punch the ground in front of him with enough strenght to create a barricade in form of a parabola in front of him. Then is when your suggestion of punching the wall can be used as well, he can punch that parabola 3 times to make either shards in a cone or 3 boulders instead of one, so you can punch that barricade 3 times. -Now, for his 3 I thought something different, for me his 3 would be better if it can help Atlas to DPS harder, so why not instead of him just looking very hard at the enemies that they get petrified, making him spray shards of rocks at the enemies, like a shotgun, those shards will get incrustated in the enemies that are in the cones range, and when Atlas punch those enemies, those rocks will get fired. as projectiles to the enemies behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xemgoa Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) I have to say, these points are a lot better than mine when I was thinking what improvements Atlas could use. I personally thought he was just fine with his abilities. I can explain why for each if you wish. My ideas were going to be a bit different, for starts: - For Tectonics, I proposed differently to my friends: Atlas, when up close to a Tectonic wall, could interact with the wall to hoist it into his arms as a boulder and use it as a melee weapon that scales on melee mods but disables the use of his other weapons during use, slowly draining energy. During this phase, Atlas can swing the boulder around and smash enemies into the floor with a shock wave, restoring durability to the "wall" from each kill. (Should it consume energy over time?) Atlas can expend it by hurling the Tectonic wall boulder, doing AOE splash damage upon impact with any enemy or surface, or can set it back down into a wall for cover or to block off any entrance/exit. Casting Tectonics again when further away still causes it to roll into a boulder and crush anything infront of it. - For Petrify, I also had different suggestions for it: Seeing as the concern of Petrify being too overpowered is silly, given he could only face one direction at a time and other frames have already overpowering CC abilities: Petrify should petrify enemies faster. During Petrify, rocks are formed/kicked up from the ground and will smack into any enemies that it flies into. - For Rumblers, these are the final proposed changes: Give the Golems the ability to chain their punches, like Atlas' Landslide. With or without the exploding finisher. They kill things slowly and they don't have enough DPS capabilities to compliment their already absurd resilience, and spend too much time winding up before jacking some oaf in the face, like they're showing off. Same for the wind up before chucking a boulder. Make the Golems smarter - for one, allow them to hurl boulders at enemies they can't reach, either because the enemies literally aren't on a path the Golems can traverse to, or it would be too tedious to run around just to get into melee range - This includes having the Golems try to deal with Nullifiers in a smart fashion-- for one thing, to stop running into a nullifier field and try chucking boulders from a distance to try and remove the field, and then throw another rock or close the distance to finish off the Nullifier. Make Atlas cast faster, or give him a brief state of invulnerability/resistance buff during the cast. As cool as the gutteral, bellowing growl is, he spends too much time doing so during his cast before calling the golems, but that might be more of a fair trade-off and this is more of a nitpick. Edited January 29, 2018 by Xemgoa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus884 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I really like this! Atlas is one of my favorite frames and I'd love to see these changes worked in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cursedmoon13 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 16 hours ago, Xemgoa said: having the Golems try to deal with Nullifiers in a smart fashion-- for one thing, to stop running into a nullifier field and try chucking boulders from a distance to try and remove the field, and then throw another rock or close the distance to finish off the Nullifier. This. Any ability that summons some kind of mobile ally with AI should at least be smart enough to avoid walking (or flying, or however they move) straight into a Nullifier bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)big_eviljak Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Atlas is great, just needs 3rd to change. Rick armor would be nice... Otherwise, hes great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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