Now that Nezha's getting a deluxe skin, now would be a great time for some buffs for him.

[HealingMind]

After being absolutely blown away by the Nezha Deluxe Skin art shown on stream and getting excited for it, I realized that now more than ever would be a good time to propose some buffs for our great Slidey Wonder Boy. Nezha right now is an okay frame, but he tends to be rather inconsistent at higher levels (Not that he CAN'T do them, he's just a lot less consistent at tackling them. I personally have done Sortie 3s as Nezha), especially compared to Heavy-Hitters such as Octavia, Inaros, or even the frame that he's often considered a discount version of, Rhino.
I figured I'd list some suggestions as to how Nezha can be made into a consistently good frame, and step out of the Shadow of Rhino a bit.
 

• Passive - This is mostly okay. Not an A+ passive, but is useful and fun enough to where I don't think it needs much change. The only thing I'd really think of to help this passive get better is if he got a certain amount of Damage Resistance when he is sliding. This would give him a bit more general bulk as well as cover a few extra points of damage if he needs to escape.

 

• Fire Walker - This ability isn't that great, but I can't really fault it that much. It does very simple things, has a bit of a support in cleaning status, it gives you some extra speed, it has a small amount of damage with a proc chance but the energy drain combined with the fact that it walls you from energy restoring abilities that aren't orbs or Limbo's rift makes it not worth keeping on for very long. Reducing the drain to about 2-3 at base and removing the standard channeled energy wall would help give it a reason to be used frequently.
   
• Blazing Chakram - This is an interesting ability; Has a bit of CC, marks targets for an explosion that heals your teammates, allows you to teleport to where your Chakram is, has a light synergy with his 1 by making an explosion if you use said teleport while Fire Walker's up. All things made mostly irrelevant due to the fact that, even with Natural Talent, this thing is way too slow. By the time you'll even let go of the Chakram, the enemy you were going to mark will likely be dead unless it's a high enough level bombard or your team forgot their serration. And the healing requires that your teammates be close enough to the explosion to be healed in the first place.. And as for teleporting, there's not really a instance where throwing your chakram will be faster than just a simple bullet jump or slide that costs 0 energy to use. Fortunately, pretty much every one of these problems can be fixed by just making the chakram much faster in throwing and flight speed, allowing Nezha to have a cheap CC and teleport option. I'd also suggest giving the healing burst a much bigger range (Possibly make it similar to Blessing in that it heals allies within affinity range?) to allow it to actually help a team out when they need healing, and not need them to be huddled close together to receive the assistance.

 

Also, about the synergy with his 1, I feel like it just doesn't really have a thing it can do. It doesn't damage that well, and its CC is random. If you want this synergy to be worth using I'd suggest just giving it a guaranteed Fire proc on any enemy in the explosion, and (possibly?) marking them for heals in a similar way to if they were hit with the Chakram itself. This would give the synergy a much better reason to be used.
 

• Warding Halo - This ability is mostly solid already, being a "discount" version of an already great ability, Iron Skin. Iron Halo suffers from one Major problem: No way to refresh or recast it. This makes Warding Skin suffer greatly at high levels, as it has to rely on enemies or intentionally walking into a pit/Nullifier bubble to deplete the skin completely in order to reapply it, which is very dangerous when enemies will burn through your Non-Iron Skin health like a candle burns through paper. It doesn't need to be an explosion or anything like that, just make it so that pressing 3 disables it so it can be reapplied/recasted. This would make Nezha so much more of a consistently powerful tanky character that I'd be satisfied if this was the only buff he got.

 

• Divine Spears -  This is, again, a good ability due to mostly being another ability (Rhino Stomp) with a different skin. You press 4, stuff gets stunned for a bit before falling to the floor, having to get up like they drunk a bit too much at the office party last night and are trying to remember why they punched out that commanding officer. Good stuff, but it has a little problem: when they fall to the floor, you get locked into an animation that stops you completely. This leaves Nezha needlessly vulnerable to enemies not affected by the spears and just feels clunky in general. Just removing that second animation, or at least making that second part a One-Handed Ability, would help make his 4 a lot less clunky and improve the flow of him overall.
  
   
• Other Ideas
• Some more Armor, A stronger halo is a happier Halo
• Give Fire Walker the ability to give allies a buff that lowers friction for a short time
• An augment that allows enemies killed by the spears/killed while affected by the spears to spread the spears to unaffected enemies
  
  Thank you for reading this thread, and I hope that Nezha can reach his true potential when he gets that amazing skin.

 

[Mover-NeRo]

3 minutes ago, HealingMind said:

when they fall to the floor, you get locked into an animation that stops you completely.

This single thing is preventing me from enjoying the frame...its so unnecessary.

[KlutzMeister]

Yeah, I think the chakram's speed and base healing range are what hurts him the most, I generally agree with you but want to add something to firewalker, change his warding halo, and add some more health as well as armor

1.firewalker- as well as the reduced drain, have fire width and sprint speed scale with range and strength respectively

3.warding halo- make it bigger , scale with range mods,change it from an iron skin effect to a self centered area of effect damage mitigater that works on self and allies in the radius while scaling up to 95% with some strength mods

(keep augment the same as before, just have them pass through the aoe to get the effect, which cant be fully restored until depleted)

 

give him some more health and armor and he is ready to be a fast little melee medic running around the battlefield keeping allies alive and causing chaos for the enemies

Edited January 27, 2018 by KlutzMeister

[(PSN)Texas_Twurk_Team]

These are all my main complaints too. I'd rather his two not cancel his one on the explosion and it should heal all allied Halos currently deployed. The heal is borderline useless as stated; give it a purpose. Because synergy or whatever. Not an augment for any of this. His kit is already hard enough to balance effectively mod-wise in higher levels. Not saying he's hard to use or build for, just short on slots to be able to use everything and that's his thing, a jack of all trades

Edited January 28, 2018 by (PS4)TexasTwurkT3am

[Ocerkin]

nezha really deserves a buff/rework, and with a skin like this one coming it would be an absolute sin for him to be used as little as he is now, honestly i never saw him anymore till the deluxe skin was announced, he is just so outstripped by every other frame out there and he could use some love even when he first released he showed some age and wasnt exactly holding his own compared to other more viable frames, now a days? what is he worth using for aside from using him to use him?

 

 

[EchoesOfRain]

Good to see that others are seeing Nezha's deluxe as a chance to give him some buffs! 

 

Personally...anything that buffs Blazing Chakram is welcome in my book. Idk how DE wants to go about doing that, but it definitely needs help

[Diavaz]

In regards to his Blazing Chakram, instead of just throwing the chakram and hope to hit the enemy you targeted (or any enemy for that matter), I think it would more interesting and useful if they tweaked the ability to be more like Atlas' Landslide. To offset this change, they could make the enemies heal only if they are killed with this ability. Also, they could create a synergy between this ability and his first where enemies affected by Firewalker would expand the healing range if killed with Blazing Chakram.

[Fihuren]

Healing warding halo with Blazing chakram could be a pretty option too

[Andele3025]

20 hours ago, KlutzMeister said:

Yeah, I think the chakram's speed and base healing range are what hurts him the most, I generally agree with you but want to add something to firewalker, change his warding halo, and add some more health as well as armor

1.firewalker- as well as the reduced drain, have fire width and sprint speed scale with range and strength respectively

3.warding halo- make it bigger , scale with range mods,change it from an iron skin effect to a self centered area of effect damage mitigater that works on self and allies in the radius while scaling up to 95% with some strength mods

(keep augment the same as before, just have them pass through the aoe to get the effect, which cant be fully restored until depleted)

 

give him some more health and armor and he is ready to be a fast little melee medic running around the battlefield keeping allies alive and causing chaos for the enemies

Firewalkers width issue is that the circles used for the aoe damage effect have gaps in them, range scaling (thus negative range scaling) would only nerf nezha build options.
Also 99% sure Warding Halo (just like Zephyrs reflect circle) size already scales with range mods, its just that the animation doesnt represent its actual range while your suggestion on its function change would just make it worse than it is with augment.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Andele3025

[Helaton]

On 1/27/2018 at 12:19 PM, Mover-NeRo said:

This single thing is preventing me from enjoying the frame...its so unnecessary.

Hold right click before you land or go into a slide before hitting. That will reset your 'impact' and allow you to run/move out of it. Its a Nezha bread and butter movement thing.

 

Warding Halo is pretty good as is.  It can stagger and damage enemies (modified with range mod) who get too close (which is really good against shields/melees/infested).  Attributes that Rhino's iron skin doesn't have.

He just needs a few tweaks to his #1 and #2. Nezha is very versatile and reliable for all starmap content. When you get into 120-150 content, his survivability suffers, but have to focus on protecting your movement abilities with CC weapons/abilities.  I like to go in with a good melee, and a rapid fire high status staticor to spread the radiation for confusion.

[Trickst3rGawd]

1 hour ago, Helaton said:

Hold right click before you land or go into a slide before hitting. That will reset your 'impact' and allow you to run/move out of it. Its a Nezha bread and butter movement thing.

 

Warding Halo is pretty good as is.  It can stagger and damage enemies (modified with range mod) who get too close (which is really good against shields/melees/infested).  Attributes that Rhino's iron skin doesn't have.

He just needs a few tweaks to his #1 and #2. Nezha is very versatile and reliable for all starmap content. When you get into 120-150 content, his survivability suffers, but have to focus on protecting your movement abilities with CC weapons/abilities.  I like to go in with a good melee, and a rapid fire high status staticor to spread the radiation for confusion.

That's you. If people like nezha and his concept they should be able to play him in higher level content. He's not the worst but his Warding Halo does suck. I say increase the EHP of Warding Halo or scrap it and just make it an aura that stuns more then it used to (stagger lock). There is no incentitive to play him. There is no reason to choose him over rhino. Just play him in MOT and you will see what people are talking about. I can't understand why you wouldn't want a warframe you like to be more durable. 

[Trickst3rGawd]

If he's getting that sick skin we saw on Dev stream he needs to be as strong as he looks. He's totally lack luster, and most of speed of his abilities make him a sitting duck. His Warding Halo is paper in level 40-60, his blazing chakram is clumsy as hell. His fire walker's width should scale with range and his 4 oh god. His 4th's second animation is horrid. It just kills gameplay with him. Scraping the animation and being able to Recast it to pick up new enemies in the area would be DIVINE. Something like equinox's sleep.

[Trickst3rGawd]

In terms of survivability.Yes yes. There are other frames that need reworks tweaks and etc. All I want is for Nezha to be on the damn list. He is a great frame in terms of cc ( Unless targets are super armored which renders his ultimate useless.) But he is bad in terms of surviving. His warding Halo...it's literally paper. How has no one been saying this? Even if you let the Halo soak up damage enemies can kill you super quick. Not to mention if you are doing high leveled content and there are armored targets... his Divine spears can't even pierce them? That seriously needs to go. It isn't doing any damage. It isn't like I'm asking for his spears to bypass armor and do damage. I'm saying that is just needs to crowd control more. You know what else needs to go? That super slow casting time for his Divine spears as well. How can we make him better? What are your thoughts?  Here's some tweaking I thought that DE should grant him that would increase his playerbase and make him a better frame.

 

1.Firewalker- as well as the reduced drain, have fire width and sprint speed scale with range and strength respectively ( Sometimes when I run around or through enemies to cc with fire walker I sometimes miss an enemy due to how skinny fire walker's radius is. I'd like to see if be affected by range and unfurl..more like a wave of fire behind him, or at least in a cone.)

2. Blazing Chakram: Give Blazing Chakram the "bladestorm treatment". Allow us to mark enemies then the Blazing Chakram will auto target the enemies we mark. If we choose not to target enemies we can still use it to teleport. Also make the teleport a bit more smooth, and make this ability scale with range.

3.warding halo- make it bigger , scale with range mods,change it from an iron skin effect to a self centered area of effect damage mitigater that works on self and allies in the radius while scaling up to 95% with some strength mods

4. Divine spears- scrap the second animation (where he drops enemies to the ground or the ability ends) and instead of keeping that we can make it to where casting it again picks up new enemies that are in the area, similar to Equinox's sleep.

With these tweaks I really think he'd get an increase in player base, as well as become more survivable.

 

 

PsiWarp     6,227

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Posted 4 minutes ago

Good stuff here. Also if they still haven't fix it, please show for clients Blazing Chakram's marking and healing explosion effects on enemies so they know who to shoot for a burst of HP.

 

[(XBOX)Grife7]

Enjoying the discourse here. I'm really hoping he gets some changes soon. For those saying that warding halo is fine you are right, for lower level content, the ability should have a better scaling mechanic to make it more useful above that as well. Give us a way to refresh/heal the halo and a way to increase the hp of the halo through synergy with another ability or something. Even a shield gate mechanic would at least be better than what it is now.

Divine spears needs a change. I love the ability, but it needs to do something to those high armor targets. 

Edited January 30, 2018 by (XB1)Grife7

[Trickst3rGawd]

16 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Grife7 said:

Enjoying the discourse here. I'm really hoping he gets some changes soon. For those saying that warding halo is fine you are right, for lower level content, the ability should have a better scaling mechanic to make it more useful above that as well. Give us a way to refresh, higher ehp, or a way to increase the hp of the hall through synergy with another ability or something. Even a shield gate mechanic would at least be better than what it is now.

Divine spears needs a change. I love the ability, but it needs to do something to those high armor targets. 

THIS^  Exactly. It peeves me off so much when people say "warding halo is fine". It really isn't. The people who say that aren't playing him in endurance runs. They are using him and conducting tests on low leveled missions in the star chart. Even once you hit level 30-40 you notice that it's not "fine " either way. I seriously wish people would stop saying it's fine. Not to mention how the cast for warding halo is too long, you can literally get killed before you finish the animation, and how having three seconds to soak up damage is short as hell. I don't want those kind of people to be heard once DE decides to tweak him. He truly deserves better armor scaling when it comes to warding halo. 

[Helaton]

On 1/29/2018 at 2:40 PM, Trickst3rGawd said:

That's you. If people like nezha and his concept they should be able to play him in higher level content. He's not the worst but his Warding Halo does suck. I say increase the EHP of Warding Halo or scrap it and just make it an aura that stuns more then it used to (stagger lock). There is no incentitive to play him. There is no reason to choose him over rhino. Just play him in MOT and you will see what people are talking about. I can't understand why you wouldn't want a warframe you like to be more durable. 

Your playstyle is just yours, why should it affect the way I play him? The entire reason to play him over rhino is his movement abilities and things like safeguard.

How do you scale durability/survivability?  At what level is Rhino's skin enough and Nezha's not? Just because its renewable?  When does an ability become a crutch?

Survivability is not an ability-level issue. It ties into the entire damage rework because Nezha is going to have the same issues majority of the other frames will have that don't have a crutch like insane damage resistance or invisibility.  At high levels, if something 1 hits Nezha's halo (or you are doing something to have Nezha's halo 1 hit), its most likely going to 1 hit Rhino's with a similar build etc.

If you are worried about cast times in a high damage environment, then have warding halo give an effect that if warding halo is consumed within x duration of casting (based power duration), the recipient is invulnerable for 2s.  That fixes majority of the problems you have with Nezha without trying to change it into a different frame.

Some people like the current direction of Nezha barring a few tweaks.  Don't hold it against them or say they shouldn't be heard.  My opinion or theirs is worth as much or as little as yours.

[Trickst3rGawd]

13 minutes ago, Helaton said:

Your playstyle is just yours, why should it affect the way I play him? The entire reason to play him over rhino is his movement abilities and things like safeguard.

How do you scale durability/survivability?  At what level is Rhino's skin enough and Nezha's not? Just because its renewable?  When does an ability become a crutch?

Survivability is not an ability-level issue. It ties into the entire damage rework because Nezha is going to have the same issues majority of the other frames will have that don't have a crutch like insane damage resistance or invisibility.  At high levels, if something 1 hits Nezha's halo (or you are doing something to have Nezha's halo 1 hit), its most likely going to 1 hit Rhino's with a similar build etc.

If you are worried about cast times in a high damage environment, then have warding halo give an effect that if warding halo is consumed within x duration of casting (based power duration), the recipient is invulnerable for 2s.  That fixes majority of the problems you have with Nezha without trying to change it into a different frame.

Some people like the current direction of Nezha barring a few tweaks.  Don't hold it against them or say they shouldn't be heard.  My opinion or theirs is worth as much or as little as yours.

Woohoo. A bit triggered there my friend? You know what? I appologize for being a bit closed minded. I'm not here to argue, I'm here to make a frame better. I never said your opinion should be heard. Also rhino's iron skin is way better then Nezha's warding halo. Iron skin works really well with its near instant 0.5 cast time.  the augment allowing for mid skin recasts and aoe stun are good.Iron skin also scales with armor so, Health conversion, steel fiber and Rhino charge augment get you some nice 100,000-300,000 skins. Warding halo is simply an broken version of the same skill, with 1.5 seconds cast time means it can't be used in combat to take advantage of the scaling as death is almost always the outcome. That's why I feel so strongly about this bro.

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Trickst3rGawd

[Maka.Bones]

Cool ideas. I upvoted.

Btw, slde already gives a DR. He slides faster/further, so he holds it for longer, dodges easier, and moves faster (thus increasing his potential for dps)... I don't think you completely understand how strong his passive is. 

Would also be cool if divine spears lasted longer / affected more enemies / didn't have such a long cast animation... I like your idea of a 1h cast. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Trickst3rGawd]

On 2/4/2018 at 10:44 PM, Maka.Bones said:

Cool ideas. I upvoted.

Btw, slde already gives a DR. He slides faster/further, so he holds it for longer, dodges easier, and moves faster (thus increasing his potential for dps)... I don't think you completely understand how strong his passive is. 

Would also be cool if divine spears lasted longer / affected more enemies / didn't have such a long cast animation... I like your idea of a 1h cast. 

I mean it's strong..but a lot of people dislike Nezha's "slide to survive". He's as slippery as a bar of soap and sometimes it's hard shooting your enemies.

[Trickst3rGawd]

(Xbox One)Grife7

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Posted January 27 (edited)

Nezha is my favorite warframe, however his survivability is severely lacking once he makes it to higher levels. With his deluxe skin coming out soon, now would be a good time to address that with an augment or tweeks.

 

Divine spears augment:

Flame of life: Nezha's warding halo gains hp equal to a percentage of the max life of each enemy impaled by Divine Spears. This would stack above his current halo hp level in order to make him viable at high levels. 

In order to stop his bubble from reaching insane hp levels this could be temporary hp that only lasts as long as they are impaled. After divine spears ends his halo's hp would be back to it's full original health unless Nezha took damage in excess of the temporary hit points of course. With this augment Nezha would be viable but still have periods of vulnerability that keep him from being invincible. The percentage of hp gained per enemy would scale with power strength. In this way low range firewalker builds could remain viable as high power strength could offset the lower number of enemies impaled. 

 

Other possible tweaks in addition to or instead of this that would not be augments:

 

It would be nice if divine spears in some way affected those targets it does not impale. Perhaps they could be stunned for a few seconds or knocked down.

Warding halo can be dismissed at will. This would help us from reaching the situation where we are at 20 % halo and get one shotted. Currently we have no recourse but to run into a nullifier bubble or jump off a cliff in order to refresh and we don't always have those options. 

 

Alternatively warding halo could have a shield gating mechanic in which Nezha gains a small window of invulnerability after his halo is broken allowing him to get out of  danger and recast. He would still be able to take damage during the small window between invulnerability periods and at high levels if you aren't careful that is more than enough time to get yourself killed so he wouldn't be invincible just more viable. Keep in mind that time spent casting is time not killing and keeping up the kps one desperately needs. 

It would be nice if firewalker cost a bit less or if he was able to regen through energy regen aura/zenurik while using it. I've never shared the design philosophy that channeled powers should take away any energy regen. Just subtract the drain from the regen.

His chakram could use higher travel speed and faster casting time. The heal should also affect his halo. This would make it actually worth using. As of now I rarely touch that ability. 

Something I would love is if he was immune to self damage while in halo. I feel like it would mix with his fire based explosive theme. Also it would be loads of fun to run through hoards of enemies blasting the ground around us while leaving fire in our wake. Just sounds too cool. "

Edited January 27 by (Xbox One)Grife7

 

[(XBOX)Grife7]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed and is keeping these Nezha threads alive. 

I personally enjoy his slippery nature. It took a while to get used to, but once you get the hang of it it's a blast. 

One thing I wanted to point out is that I actually don't think any of his skills need to be removed and replaced. They only need to be reworked to function more fluidly and work in high levels as well as low. As it is I use every one of his abilities. The only one I rarely touch is chakram, but I still use it when I need a heal and it allows me to go without life strike which is nice. 

It is because I love playing this frame and see that it has so much potential that I want him to be viable no matter what you play him in. He is simply too squishy to not be able to somehow refresh his halo and/or add to its hp via other abilities. His divine spears need to be able to somehow cc those enemies it does not spear. Nothing crazy just something like a slow or stun. It would be great to.be able to recast spears in order to pick up new enemies, because waiting through two casting animations in order to slam and then reapply can get you killed. Also having a forced animation at the end of his 4 is clunky and I personally don't find it to be fun or worth it for the measly damage it does. I like his one, but it would be nice if it had some kind of scaling damage mechanic that allows it to in someway bypass armor rather than just acting as mild cc in higher levels. The marking mechanic mentioned earlier for halo would be a great QOL change. To those reading this. Please consider replying to keep this thread alive and bring it to the devs attention.