Why mains are absolute nonsense

[Ragnarok160]

Disclaimer: a lot of what i'm saying here is my opinion and experience, lets try to keep the topic on the content at hand and be respectful. i would ask that unless your going to comment actual criticism that you not comment at all, if you do not agree with my statements then that is fine this is a discussion not a persuasive essay, i am looking for legit feedback. i made this post to be thought provoking and engage in community and self analysis. i try very hard to comment on what gets posted here but if your comment does not meet a discussion criteria then i will not respond. lets keep it fun tenno.

Warframe is a game that at its core offers diversity and allows for a multitude of play styles. in my opinion the game is at its best when the player diversifies himself with the diversity of the game i.e trying new load outs, combinations and theory crafting. to be honest limiting yourself to a main greatly diminish the experience for yourself and others even if you don't realize it, i see it in game and on the forums people convincing themselves that if they main a frame that makes them more skilled with that particular facit of mechanical know how. HOWEVER i am here to breakdown the nonsensical ideology of a main.

1. Warframe was but also was not whole fully designed to be a game that allowed you to play a single style for the lifetime of your play through, its really confusing actually since fighting is really opened to a limitless load out. a good example is spy missions, YES you can do spy missions without stealth frames like ash, ivara, loki, octavia and "ahem" limbo but most people would feel more comfortable using said frames. skill does play a large factor in missions that require unconventional means to the speed shooting style the rest of the game conveys but the higher you go the more common people will or rather should resort to these frame.

Do you need to use a stealth frame in this missions type, NO but it greatly improves your chances, its more so a fact of "just because you can does not always mean you should" and that same quote goes for the rest of the game (at-least referring to higher levels) yes any potato load out you bring into the early game play level 1 - 60 can be useful but i'm more so referring to the very high levels of game play where strategy and smart picks will win over being stubborn and bringing lets say atlas into a level 100 defense mission. the game isn't just about shooting and exploitation but its about doing it the right way. think about your team and what real impact you'll have in a match before you go in.

2. "Mains destroy there own frame". what i'm referring to is the constant fan boying of certain frames that are holding back said frame and community. i'm talking about the hard fan boys not the people that really care about a frames well being. a long time ago it was oberon mains constantly ranting about how oberon was god tier and everyone else was dumb and lacking in skill when really all they were doing was giving DE a good reason not to buff him. Now a days its nezha and atlas frame which are two very lack luster frames who's powers are greatly over shadowed by other frame. instead of saying nezha's powers could use more synergy and talking about whats wrong with atlas (which would take a separate thread) they need to accept that some frames really are just bad and come up with ways to improve them instead of calling everyone whom talks bad about there frame skill less. i know there are people out there already doing this but i find them to be much smaller compared to the fan boys. think about it, if people didnt see how bad limbo was he would have never been reworked.

3. "support mains are the absolute worse". of all the mains i usually encounter the support main is the worst. yes, yes ik you main ev trinity and day form equinox you dont need to say it every two seconds. I see this a lot more in forum posts and support mains make it very clear that they think they are better then everyone.  not a day goes by on the forums that i don't see at least 5 support mains claiming they are the only reason why there team stays alive at level 100. let me burst the big head of support mains " your not needed". will anyone complain theirs an ev trinity on there level 100 team, well yes actually because without chain link they will die in about 1.5 seconds of entering a room and its even worse for equinox players since they have no defensive capability, and don't say 4 is good CC since once an enemy stops for about 3 seconds the CC no longer works on them and nyx users never own up to the fact that even though chaos is decent CC the cross fire will masque squishy frames. news flash yes people don't mind support frames but just like everything else you don't need one in every game.

i think it was about a year ago that the craze for EV trinity really sky rockets, i remember the recruiting chat wanted a EV for any ol thing but those days have passed and EV is really only needed in grinding missions.

4.  "playing a frame for 100 hours does not make you better with that frame" this one can be up for debate but before you hate me in the comments hear me out. i hate the age old excuse that playing a frame for an ungodly amount of hours in any better then someone playing the same frame for 20 hours, if anything it makes you worse. mechanically every frame in the game is the same (no rhyme intended) they move the same, shoot the same, the only difference between frames is there abilities and passives, the other 80% of there load out is open for everyone. however playing 1 frame in all reality makes you worse at the game overall. imagine you play a lot of rhino and clearly he plays different then a squishy frame since he can take bullets to the chest so a lot of the time when playing rhino your not dashing around so much but moving slowly trying to get head shots and maximize your damage, so now imagine you decide to play trinity, a frame that is very squishy and dies in a few hits, trying to play her in the way you would play rhino will have you dead before you realize you accidentally didn't bring your main, with squishy frames you need to move fast, weaving in and out of cover, but with all this movement its much harder to land head shots and maximize your dps. but lets reverse the roles now. a trinity trying to play rhino isn't used to the standing and slow movement of rhino and has very poor accuracy from never really practicing head shots.

sound familiar? because the number one reason i see people telling me why they main supports is because "im bad at killing and shooting" well you don't have an excuse since you limited yourself by not playing other characters. also i may look at you like your dumb since you may not realize you can use any gun. No one is born amazing at something but everyone can be skilled in it and trust me if your a trinity that can land constant head shots or a rhino that can move like a butterfly your team will thank you. also please no comments on how you have 100 hours with trinity and can head shot a Moa from 200 meters away.

• me personally, well i pick whatever frames i think will best suit the situation, i'm a very flexable and well rounded player that can play any frame in the game to great effluence. i dont want to act like im the greatest player or anything there are people who are better then me simple because like me they are flexible, making flex picking will make you a much more efficient tenno, trust me and your team will love you more for it.
• IK i bash on support mains more they anything but they are a really good example and the most common i see, yes i see plenty of ash mains, rhino mains and limbo mains that hinder certain missions because they never freaking swap off. every frame has strengths and weaknesses and some frames really are just bad at everything and its utilizing those strengths and weaknesses and exploiting them that will carry you to ungodly levels and if you choose to ignore my advice that's up to you, if you've made it this far only using 1 frame then more power to you. i wont tell you how to play the game but trust me i wouldn't steer you wrong i only want to see you and the game improve.

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Ragnarok160
I got some good advice on helping to curb the lack of constructive criticism

[Ragnarok160]

dont start commenting till you've read all of it, ik its a long read but i want you to be informed before you post your comments

[Ragnarok160]

Just now, Neo_182 said:

I beg to differ.
Not only within warframe but many other games...
I perform much better with my main.

This argument makes no sense at all. 
Just entitlement.
That's the beauty of warframe. Play whatever you like.
Don't like what others are playing?
There's a solo option!

i just posted this and started reading it myself, i got to point 2 before you commented so i know you didnt read it all.

[Ragnarok160]

Just now, Neo_182 said:

I did. I just stopped after a while. 
Because entitlement.

im still reading my own post, read it all then comment, how about actually just read the bottom bulletin 

[Kurokoz]

1 minute ago, Ragnarok160 said:

i just posted this and started reading it myself, i got to point 2 before you commented so i know you didnt read it all.

After skimming it, I know reading all of it is irrelevant to the counter point. People can and will play the way they want to and there is no reason anyone should tell them not to play the way they enjoy. A lot of your argument boils down to "They're bad and could be better" but some people are totally fine with being bad when they are having fun.

[Ragnarok160]

Just now, Kurokoz said:

After skimming it, I know reading all of it is irrelevant to the counter point. People can and will play the way they want to and there is no reason anyone should tell them not to play the way they enjoy. A lot of your argument boils down to "They're bad and could be better" but some people are totally fine with being bad when they are having fun.

the last bulletin touches on that acually.

[Kurokoz]

Just now, Ragnarok160 said:

the last bulletin touches on that acually.

No, not really. It entirely contradicts the title. It goes from "absolute cancer" to "nah, it's fine whatever"

[Yagamilight123]

Wow you seems to have a lot of spare time to write that textwall of nonsense .

[Ragnarok160]

Just now, Kurokoz said:

No, not really. It entirely contradicts the title. It goes from "absolute cancer" to "nah, it's fine whatever"

the title is more of an attention grabber rather then a full point, i did actually start this post meaning for it to be a rant about mains but i decided by bullet 3 to take a more educational approach which is why the mood changes for "cancer" to "you could be better"

[Ragnarok160]

Just now, Yagamilight123 said:

Wow you seems to have a lot of spare time to write that textwall of nonsense .

have you tried reading it? i dont think you did.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

Although I main tanky frames, I will play other frames if the situation calls for it. I may specialize in one category of frame, but that does not automatically disqualify me from being good in other types

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

Hey Rhino is good, We have decent support , cc and our crutch as people call it helps when * hits the fan.

[Kurokoz]

Just now, Ragnarok160 said:

the title is more of an attention grabber rather then a full point, i did actually start this post meaning for it to be a rant about mains but i decided by bullet 3 to take a more educational approach which is why the mood changes for "cancer" to "you could be better"

If you want people and the game to improve, don't tell a large amount of people that their play-style is absolute cancer. It should be obvious.

[Ragnarok160]

1 minute ago, Kurokoz said:

If you want people and the game to improve, don't tell a large amount of people that their play-style is absolute cancer. It should be obvious.

wait its obvious that they need to improve? or its obvious there play style is cancer? i think im reading that wrong :C

Edited January 27, 2018 by Ragnarok160

[Kurokoz]

Just now, Ragnarok160 said:

wait its obvious that they need to improve? or its obvious there play style is cancer? i think im reading that wrong :C

It should be obvious that telling people their play-style is cancer is not helpful in any way >.>

[Ragnarok160]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

Although I main tanky frames, I will play other frames if the situation calls for it. I may specialize in one category of frame, but that does not automatically disqualify me from being good in other types

i think categorizing some frames can be hard overall since some frames like nyx can fill multiple roles

[DrBorris]

Point 1: This is the great thing about Warframe, you really can do anything with anything. I don't remember the last time I took a "stealth" frame to a "stealth" mission. I learned the ins and outs of the game and now I just take whoever I have equipped to nearly every mission type. I know I could pick something that makes it easier, but I can also do it a way that is more fun for me.

Also, Ivara is god-tier at every mission type.

 

Point 2 and 4: These are not problems with "mains", these are problems with people. If a person can not see through their own bias about their favorite frame, that is a problem with how they judge and not with the fact they have a "main". I hate it when people do the things you mention in these points, but I don't hate that people have a main, I hate that people are being stupid.

 

Point 3: Uhhhhhhh, not sure where to go here, you just sound super salty. Support frames are some of the most powerful frames in the game on their own. Trinity is one of the best tanks in the game, Oberon is an amazing tank as well and can strip dat armor. Equinox is a god-tier frame in more ways than one (Maim bomb, Peaceful Provocation, and the Duality thing exists too). And Harrow arguably does better on his own than as a support. Again, this is a problem with the player being stupid and not with the fact they have a main. An Equinox "main" can be a god or scum.

Edited January 27, 2018 by DrBorris

[Ragnarok160]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Solargeo said:

Hey Rhino is good, We have decent support , cc and our crutch as people call it helps when * hits the fan.

i think a couple years back i read a post about why rhino mians were the best but that was also during the time his iron skin was really suffering, its true some frames like excal and rhino are good a lot of things, but not everything

[Ragnarok160]

2 minutes ago, Kurokoz said:

It should be obvious that telling people their play-style is cancer is not helpful in any way >.>

yet you still tried to read this post? what ive learned is the more controversial the title is the more likely someone will read it.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, Ragnarok160 said:

i think categorizing some frames can be hard overall since some frames like nyx can fill multiple roles

While I agree here, I feel that certain frames can be considered as a type of frame, such as Inaros, Nidus, and Rhino being generally tanks

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

1 minute ago, Ragnarok160 said:

i think a couple years back i read a post about why rhino mians were the best but that was also during the time his iron skin was really suffering, its true some frames like excal and rhino are good a lot of things, but not everything

I know, we are good,  not great. But good.

[Ragnarok160]

2 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Point 1: This is the great thing about Warframe, you really can do anything with anything. I don't remember the last time I took a "stealth" frame to a "stealth" mission. I learned the ins and outs of the game and now I just take whoever I have equipped to nearly every mission type. I know I could pick something that makes it easier, but I can also do it a way that is more fun for me.

Also, Ivara is god-tier at every mission type.

 

Point 2 and 4: These are not problems with "mains", these are problems with people. If a person can not see through their own bias about their favorite frame, that is a problem with how they judge and not with the fact they have a "main". I hate it when people do the things you mention in these points, but I don't hate that people have a main, I hate that people are being stupid.

 

Point 3: Uhhhhhhh, not sure where to go here, you just sound super salty. Support frames are some of the most powerful frames in the game on their own. Trinity is one of the best tanks in the game, Oberon is an amazing tank as well and can strip dat armor. Equinox is a god-tier frame in more ways than one (Maim bomb, Peaceful Provocation, and the Duality thing exists too). And Harrow arguably does better on his own than as a support. Again, this is a problem with the player being stupid nad not with the fact they have a min. An Equinox "main" can be a god or scum.

all good points, again the 3rd point was more of an example rather then constraining  on specific frames alone, supports were just the best example. support frames are very strong since a lot of there skills are mad exploitable but its really based on team comp to what efficiency a support has.

[Urlan]

While I think its great to have a set mindset and established playstyle that is fun for you; I am afraid it is quite incompatible with my own. I find that players having the option to play to their personal playstyle, with the options and tools available and then using what they want and when they want is one of the strengths of Warframe. I think its great that your strategy works for you and its your playstyle, however if someone doesn't do that; it doesn't make them less or more valuable or better a player than you or others. If someone knows how and likes playing Oberon for instance, in everything including spy, it doesn't make it problematic for me. The options are a strength but that flexibility of choice is what Warframe is built upon.

[Tekka_Croe]

4 minutes ago, Ragnarok160 said:

have you tried reading it? i dont think you did.

I read your entire post and I can barely understand what you're saying, your syntax and grammar are terrible.  The reason people aren't reading your whole post is because it's way harder to read than it ought to be.  I'm not trying to be mean here.  You need to take the time to write well if you want people to seriously consider a long post.  Dropping your arrogant tone would probably help, too.

[-Krism-]

Just now, Tekka_Croe said:

Dropping your arrogant tone would probably help, too.

 

I was thinking of this while reading it.