Arca Plasmor Change

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 minutes ago, UncleWalrus said:

You're seriously expecting me to believe Digital Extremes forgot weapons can headshot. Really, now.

Just lol  

 

[Kayll]

6 minutes ago, UncleWalrus said:

You're seriously expecting me to believe Digital Extremes forgot weapons can headshot. Really, now.

I never said anything like that.
The same fix was applied to the tonkor, by this logic if they nerfed the weapons damage by 50% but it was still able to headshot bringing it back to how it is now, you'd probably still be here on the forums complaining cause your overpowered weapon isn't as strong anymore, not anything to do with the mechanics of headshotting.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 minutes ago, Kayll said:

Thats great, this post is about the Arca Plasmor.
Using an overpowered weapon to try and rationalize another weapons power is quite silly.

That's the point. Instead of reworking something that actually needs a rework DE completely neutered something that doesn't.

The pre Plasmar was no more overpowered throughout the star chart than Tigris with punch thru. 

[Stoner]

Another example for those that have been here long enough, Viver. Back then, Viver used to spawn an insane amount of enemies. Guess what DE decided to do? Nerf the frames that was used to farm said XP. 

I hate the Plasmor change. It falls into the same category of dumb "balancing". Was Plasmor really that powerful? No it wasn't. There are much more broken weapons and mods that allow us to insta kill the majority of enemies in one room, in a simple single swing. Yet... 

[Kayll]

 

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

That's the point. Instead of reworking something that actually needs a rework DE completely neutered something that doesn't.

The pre Plasmar was no more overpowered throughout the star chart than Tigris with punch thru. 

Sorry I should edit what I said.
"Using an overpowered weapon to try and rationalize another overpowered weapons power is quite silly."

[Drahczil]

One thing for sure, we will keep getting heartbreaks from DE. I am giving up after the arca plasmor nerf which I invested thousand of plats and save myself from pain in the future. Its tigris p or nothing.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

5 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

Another example for those that have been here long enough, Viver. Back then, Viver used to spawn an insane amount of enemies. Guess what DE decided to do? Nerf the frames that was used to farm said XP. 

I hate the Plasmor change. It falls into the same category of dumb "balancing". Was Plasmor really that powerful? No it wasn't. There are much more broken weapons and mods that allow us to insta kill the majority of enemies in one room, in a simple single swing. Yet... 

Absolutely. 

[UncleWalrus]

4 minutes ago, Kayll said:

I never said anything like that.
The same fix was applied to the tonkor, by this logic if they nerfed the weapons damage by 50% but it was still able to headshot bringing it back to how it is now, you'd probably still be here on the forums complaining cause your overpowered weapon isn't as strong anymore, not anything to do with the mechanics of headshotting.

You did. You quoted their stated reasoning, which implies that they didn't foresee the weapon getting consistent headshots. I call bogus on that. If it truly didn't fit their vision, they'd have changed it posthaste, like they keep changing the Quartakk.

Also, false equivalence. For one thing, that's a bit presumptuous of you, innit?
For another all launchers were changed to have that behavior in a blanket update. No one launcher was singled out and given anomalous behavior.
For a third, I used the Tonkor just fine, before and after the headshot change. IMO it was less of a factor because the Tonkor is wildly erratic and, with Firestorm, has a splash radius comparable to some warframe power ranges. I only stopped using it when the sodding thing started killing me. But that's neither here nor there, innit?

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Kayll said:

You guys compare it to the Tigris Prime, which is strong yes but in its own narrow way,a strong single target burst with not much ability for AoE.

The difference here is that the Arca Plasmor is an AoE weapon, capable of clearing entire hallways,so being upset that it doesn't do as much damage as the Tigris Prime is absurd,and if people are to put punch through on their Tigris then they sacrifice, but the Arca Plasmor has punch through by default

 

The tigris needs a punch-through mod.  The plasmor needs a flight speed mod, a fire rate mod, and maybe even a reload mod.  Take your pick.  They both have their own challenges.  There's not that much difference between their group damage capability.  The huge difference is in their respective status capabilities which determines how well they scale vs high level enemies when crits are not feasible.  The plasmor gets maybe 1-2 procs per enemy hit, per trigger pull.  The tigris can get as many as 35 procs per enemy per trigger pull.

[peterc3]

Dangerous? To whom?

They altered a weapon for interacting with the rest of the game in a way that was unintended. If anything, the number of threads spawned shows that the nerf was justified.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

6 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

unintended

It was only "unintended" after the Harrow augment release. Come dude, just stop. When was arca plasmor released? Yeah right, unintended my foot. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[peterc3]

Just now, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

It was only "unintended" after the Harrow augment release. Come dude, just stop. 

Releasing said augment made them realize a previous oversight. Stop what?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

20 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Releasing said augment made them realize a previous oversight. Stop what?

Then rework the augment. Don't nerf said weapon making the augment broken. The arca plasmor nerf was completely unnecessary and a knee jerk reaction. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[djternan]

I guess that's one more fun weapon to put into the trash bin.  Oh well, back to Tigris Prime, can't have a weapon be fun and powerful forever.

[Voltage]

17 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Dangerous? To whom?

They altered a weapon for interacting with the rest of the game in a way that was unintended. If anything, the number of threads spawned shows that the nerf was justified.

Oh, so because players don't know how mechanics work, we should just nerf Ember because people make threads about it?

Arca Plasmor was one of the first contenders to Tigris Prime and Vaykor Hek that didn't require a riven unlike strun wraith or Astilla. Popularity should never constitute a nerf, it should set precedent. Ask Caustacyst how popularity kills weapons.

Edited January 28, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[taiiat]

47 minutes ago, UncleWalrus said:

• Then if the Greedy Pull augment was the problem, why not change Greedy Pull, and not baseline pull? It's equally daft.
• An Ability Strength Harrow can buff it to be comparatively oneshotty.
• The argument was about mechanical behavior, not effectiveness.

• because Pull was fine. Greedy Pull made the Ability non LoS constrained. so that had to be fixed. 
• i think you're missing the point of relative power scale. the Delta is enormous between the two Weapons you're talking about.
• but that's why the mechanical behavior doesn't matter. because the effectiveness of that with Ignis, is not particularly high compared to a lot of other options.

[UncleWalrus]

Just now, taiiat said:

• because Pull was fine. Greedy Pull made the Ability non LoS constrained. so that had to be fixed. 
• i think you're missing the point of relative power scale. the Delta is enormous between the two Weapons you're talking about.
• but that's why the mechanical behavior doesn't matter. because the effectiveness of that with Ignis, is not particularly high compared to a lot of other options.

• Nope. Pull always worked without LoS. It doesn't need LoS today either, it just works in a cone in front of Mag. You can still pull enemies through walls and intervening terrain.
• Let's be honest. Most people will only see an enemy above level 100 in the Simulacrum. For the overwhelming majority of the playerbase, the 10k crits from an Amprex or the 20k ones from the Arca Plasmor are functionally interchangeable. And I know this thing is dead-killy at lvl60-100 since it's my go-to weapon on Assault Rifle Only sorties.
• So, let's have completely inconsistent mechanical behaviors because... not all weapons are created equal? What?

 

18 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Dangerous? To whom?

They altered a weapon for interacting with the rest of the game in a way that was unintended. If anything, the number of threads spawned shows that the nerf was justified.

Congratulations on not reading the original post!

[taiiat]

17 minutes ago, UncleWalrus said:

• Nope. Pull always worked without LoS. It doesn't need LoS today either, it just works in a cone in front of Mag. You can still pull enemies through walls and intervening terrain.
• Let's be honest. Most people will only see an enemy above level 100 in the Simulacrum. For the overwhelming majority of the playerbase, the 10k crits from an Amprex or the 20k ones from the Arca Plasmor are functionally interchangeable. And I know this thing is dead-killy at lvl60-100 since it's my go-to weapon on Assault Rifle Only sorties.

Pull didn't abide by LoS for quite some time yes, but then it was appropriately made to abide by it. and then some months later, an Augment created that removed that restriction, making it a mandatory Mod and allowing the same idling issues that Pull had been doing without LoS restriction.
it does seem that this got broken again sometime though. bugsbugsbugs

if you think the power scale between Amprex and Arca Plasmor is only 100%, then discussing this doesn't have much point since you don't know what the power scale Delta between them is. (hint, it's a lot more than 100%)

Edited January 28, 2018 by taiiat

[Senguash]

If you ignore lasting covenant for a second, I think the arca plasmor nerf in isolation is pretty fair and brings it more in line with other shotguns.
It deals less damage than the hek or the tigris but the large aoe more than makes up for that.
I think you'll find that its still a very solid weapon.

I heavily disagree with you about greedy pull. The toxic part of that playstyle was mag, and if mesa had been nerfed as you suggested the stradegy could still be done today using mag and any frame that can deal damage in a large area. Being forced to move around in order to collect loot is healthy for the game. Being able to pull the loot to you, is way too easily abusable.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Senguash

[Chipputer]

>Fun and diversity of gameplay

The gun is still mechanically the exact same except that it doesn't do headshots anymore. The fun and diversity is still there. Stop it.

[Airwolfen]

The mag greedy pull nerf was not because of mesa. there was a bigger issue with banshee going on at the time. greedy pull got nerfed and the afk timer was set in place against that one as well.

That mod in that state allowed for a lot of no effort farming. so what happened had to happen.

[o.0-]

Eh, I almost feel like I need a tin foil hat, with how the exhibits are being evaluated here. For me, the change to the Plasmor does not bother me and I still plan on using mine.

What I wonder about, is the work being put into the damage system, and look forward to learn more on what we can expect going forward.

[Vox_Preliator]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

https://amp.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/6rkzyr/shotgun_status_you_why_its_important_to_give_100/

Here you go. “Definition” is stretching the word, but this reddit post explains why the shotgun algorithm gives the utmost importance to status chance, pellet count, and the prerogative of status chance applied (100%) before multishot.

So yeah, Arca Plasmor is not a status shotgun due to 1 slug “pellet”/wave, being unable to reach 100% status chance before multishot, and applying status chance unreliably on any given target due to low fire rate. It doesn’t matter if it shoots a wave that can hit multiple targets, since it cannot hit 100% status chance before multishot (without the help of a riven) the stat proc isn’t guaranteed, nor does it have a sustained fire rate to shoot the waves multiple times without the use of multishot.

But if it only has one pellet and does not use the usual Shotgun Status Mechanics, then there isn't any notable incentive to try to reach 100% status.  Nothing magical happens like it does with other shotguns.  It does a fine job inflicting status effects. 

[MickThejaguar]

On 1/25/2018 at 2:20 PM, AcceptYourDeath said:

I love these guys 

"I am space ninja....i am a space ninja....I am space ninja, Warframe is about my power fantasys" 

 

.....Nothing he/she said there is false. That's literally your character in Warframe. That's what DE markets Warframe as. That'd be like mocking someone for saying that "Skyrim is about you being a powerful dragonborn" or "Assassin's Creed is about you being master assassin". 

[Peter]

"The Arca Plasmor received a change yesterday where headshots no longer deal bonus damage. The Arca Plasmor was designed to hit multiple targets with a high-status chance, but with wide wave projectiles and inherent punch-through, a single shot could result in multiple headshots. With it being a shotgun, it was never intended to behave as a precision weapon, and the bonus pushed it too far out of that mold."

Yeah of course, now tell me the advantage to use the "good weapon designed to hit multiple target with a high-status chance", if i can take a melee weapon to does better than this? yeah, we no have problem with 400% range melee weapons with full 9999999 red crit dmg with headshot enabled, but arca plasmor can't do headshots.

High reload, low fire rate, low range with dmg falloff, no headshot, yeah you've created a junk weapon, congrats!

 

Let's spin 2 win!!!

Edited January 28, 2018 by peterkas