Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

The Non-Bullet Sponge Mobs You're Looking For


notionphil
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hmm...

 

Bastion is not a unit per se. It is just a mobile defense station. Mobile gives more options, strategy and fun. As a player, you'll have to keep an eye out 'Uh oh, he's got the briefcase again, get him!'

 

Hulk is a heavy MOA. It just has a weakspot and strategy to reveal that spot. Otherwise, it would be another bullet sponge.

 

Homunculous is a ranged infested....but instead of being a swarm of annoying ranged units like drones, it's just ONE powerful ranged unit. However, if you just kill it at range, and don't go gib the body, it will 're-posess' another infested, so you'll have to keep dealing with it over and over.

 

Remember, the goal is to make enemies that are more than bullet sponges and require at least some strategy other than 'pump as much DPS into its head as possible for X seconds'. Right now there are ZERO non boss mobs like that in game.

 

I suppose the Bastion being mobile would add more tension, though one must wonder how Corpus can fit an entire triple-barreled rail gun inside a briefcase? Eh, there rich, they can afford to screw the laws of physics.

 

I should have specified I don't agree with the Hulk aesthetically; I don't know, a brain in a jar sounds unfitting for this game. An eye or an exposed core when attacking maybe? Though I do agree that Corpus needs heavy units besides techs.

 

I wasn't sold at first but the Homunculus does actually sound like a decent idea. I still don't think they should be the infested's only means of long ranged attack, but the idea of them turning any random drone into a "Heavy Elite Badass" version of themselves if you don't kill them in time is something I actually would like to see.

 

Sorry if my first response seemed negative, I had to type it in a rush so I may not have gotten my full opinion across. All in all this game definitely needs more Heavy units and enemies that require more than raw DPS to defeat (like you said).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

stupid idea, if tons of bullets can't handle it, we spawn rhino stomp .

 

 

Well, now we can also spawn Nova 4, Saryn 1/4, NYX 3, Vauban 3, frost 3.

 

 

no matter how you change the enemy, tactics are same. Because Warframes are OP

Edited by Cary2010haha
Link to comment
Share on other sites

stupid idea, if tons of bullets can't handle it, we spawn rhino stomp .

 

 

Well, now we can also spawn Nova 4, Saryn 1/4, NYX 3, Vauban 3, frost 3.

 

 

no matter how you change the enemy, tactics are same. Because Warframes are OP

 

Obviously these mobs would be impervious or suffer reduced effects from CC....I figured that would go without saying.

 

Prob slow or knockdown. Def not levitate, freeze etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obviously these mobs would be impervious or suffer reduced effects from CC....I figured that would go without saying.

 

Prob slow or knockdown. Def not levitate, freeze etc.

well that totally another kind of "SPONGE" >>>>damage sponge, because they don't take CC, the only way to stop them is use mass damge end their moves, like "JACKAL"

Or "raptor" 

or giving them invincible like Vor, thats "time sponge", wasting our time to wait.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well that totally another kind of "SPONGE" >>>>damage sponge, because they don't take CC, the only way to stop them is use mass damge end their moves, like "JACKAL"

Or "raptor" 

or giving them invincible like Vor, thats "time sponge", wasting our time to wait.

 

No, you just have to use some basic tactics to overcome them. No 100% invuln, no shield period.

 

Not everything is a sponge, lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately most of those counts on DE working on their enemy AI... And we all know that their current AI is a piece of crap close to that of Uncharted -.-'... So yeah, i don't see much future for those ideas unless the enemy are actually coded extensively or they start TRAINING their AI.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, you just have to use some basic tactics to overcome them. No 100% invuln, no shield period.

 

Not everything is a sponge, lol.

but if they don't have huge hp or some kind or invincible, they'll die in second, and words about "just have to use some basic tactics" is not real, like one of the suggest, don't take bullet damage but melee only, thats "bullet invincible" and waste our time to get close, if it don't have that"invincible" it die in second.

 

and the "weak point only" is basic corpus crewman in wave 50, you hit their head or do no damage, simple if they don't have huge hp they just die like lvl 1-70 crewman, die in second also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

but if they don't have huge hp or some kind or invincible, they'll die in second, and words about "just have to use some basic tactics" is not real, like one of the suggest, don't take bullet damage but melee only, thats "bullet invincible" and waste our time to get close, if it don't have that"invincible" it die in second.

 

and the "weak point only" is basic corpus crewman in wave 50, you hit their head or do no damage, simple if they don't have huge hp they just die like lvl 1-70 crewman, die in second also.

 

Arrg man read the OP.

 

You have to do something besides shoot at them, or press 4 to reveal their weakspot.

 

EX: Grineer Judicator is life-linked to nearby grineer, so any damage or ults, goes directly to those mobs. You need to separate him from them, or kill them all first. Even if you use an ult, all the dmg goes to 1 enemy, instead of the whole group, becaue of the lifelink.

 

So, use ragdoll to separate him from them. or CC on the other mobs then move him away. Or shockwave to push him aside. Or kill them all one at a time, but he'll be telling them to take cover and heal, so it won't be that easy.

 

See? you can't just unload a clip into his head to kill him, but yet, he doesn't have a shield period or a invul phase. You'll have to think for a second.

 

These mobs are all like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arrg man read the OP.

 

You have to do something besides shoot at them, or press 4 to reveal their weakspot.

 

EX: Grineer Judicator is life-linked to nearby grineer, so any damage or ults, goes directly to those mobs. You need to separate him from them, or kill them all first. Even if you use an ult, all the dmg goes to 1 enemy, instead of the whole group, becaue of the lifelink.

 

So, use ragdoll to separate him from them. or CC on the other mobs then move him away. Or shockwave to push him aside. Or kill them all one at a time, but he'll be telling them to take cover and heal, so it won't be that easy.

 

See? you can't just unload a clip into his head to kill him, but yet, he doesn't have a shield period or a invul phase. You'll have to think for a second.

 

These mobs are all like that.

useless judicator because a nova can one shot  all LVL 1-70 mob in 25M  (or saryn to go 1-120lvl), and judicator is just another single heavy unit, so if it don't have huge hp he already die in the utla effect, of he's just another bullet sponge heavy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

useless judicator because a nova can one shot  all LVL 1-70 mob in 25M  (or saryn to go 1-120lvl), and judicator is just another single heavy unit, so if it don't have huge hp he already die in the utla effect, of he's just another bullet sponge heavy.

reading comprehension....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arrg man read the OP.

 

You have to do something besides shoot at them, or press 4 to reveal their weakspot.

 

EX: Grineer Judicator is life-linked to nearby grineer, so any damage or ults, goes directly to those mobs. You need to separate him from them, or kill them all first. Even if you use an ult, all the dmg goes to 1 enemy, instead of the whole group, becaue of the lifelink.

 

So, use ragdoll to separate him from them. or CC on the other mobs then move him away. Or shockwave to push him aside. Or kill them all one at a time, but he'll be telling them to take cover and heal, so it won't be that easy.

 

See? you can't just unload a clip into his head to kill him, but yet, he doesn't have a shield period or a invul phase. You'll have to think for a second.

 

These mobs are all like that.

 

Yes, but this is counting on the fact that he's suposed to "Have the other guys take cover or heal"... I don't think they have the brain power to do so. Again, enemy AI here is one of the most stupid i have ever saw. The Siren's strategy is to rush your enemy and force them into melee as much as possible, but it would be a stupid Siren that just stands there watching you. The Hulk there would probably be the best enemy he designed because it doesn't count on him to be smart, but that's about it. The turret that give corpus shields? No Corpus would use it because they are @(*()$ dumb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was actly about to make a topic about something similer, more related to maps but not the point.

 

I very large thing id like to see in this game is passive mobs, or at lest ones that interact with but are otherwise nutral unless acted on. civilians or otherwise. thay exist in term of the rescue missions, but where are thay from, how do thay live, and if thay are not with us then what do thay do?

 

part of that is becasue I want to see maps that are citys or otherwise of any faction, maby not even the main three.

 

the other thing is that I want to see more infested. thay lack a long range mob, but what few games do with infested/zomibes is give them guns. the only example i can think of offhand that did it well was metroid prime 2, with the space marines. thay where limp, barily mobile hulks of armor with infested driven flesh that would fire there guns at you when thay where at distance. mind you thay cant hold them strait nor up, and draged them along behind them. there shots wouldnt land offten, but it gave them the distance that the infested lack right now. when you get close to them thay swing the guns at you still fireing but it did more damage when it hit you with a mella then a shot. what bothers me about warframe is that for the most part the only grinner infested are the chargers (also... the "tails" ._. ) and the rest are corpus. infact most of the infected are corpus of diffrent types.

 

jest picher a corpus or grinner troop, most of its armor intact, limping and draging there gun. for the most part thay seem to be normal untill you are seen by them (maby thay have glowing eyes or something). as thay rush to you thay haphazerdly fire off there almost forgoten wepondery in a mad, last rush tword the enemy.

 

there concept however was ment for a wartorn world. perhapes a palce scared by the war long ago. corpses line the streets of a forgoten city, some stagger about, infected and crazed, and others, the few fallen tenno held up in breched qwarters hows last stand is still evident by the skelitonized enemys who litter the grond arond them. when the call whent out to the sleeping tenno, the fallen suits also awoke. (witch would ither be a mob itself, or jest a signal to follow in said mission and recover your fallen comrade)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

reading comprehension....

yeap, that's why i say nova, becasue Nova's ulta is muti damage effect, if there have 15 grineer primed it damage 15 times, one die to another, one by one, the judicator just can't stop it kill whole group of grineer(and it links all damage to one target, it just make nova's ulta more powerful, you kill one primed enemy and make a aoe damage, and judicator link muti aoe dmage to one target, that target must dead, another primed damage come out, just kill everything at last.)

 

and it helps saryn's vemon2, because you just need use it on judicator, and it'll link those damage to kill everything it links

Edited by Cary2010haha
Link to comment
Share on other sites

yeap, that's why i say nova, becasue Nova's ulta is muti damage effect, if there have 15 grineer primed it damage 15 times, one die to another, one by one, the judicator just can't stop it kill whole group of grineer(and it links all damage to one target, it just make nova's ulta more powerful, you kill one primed enemy and make a aoe damage, and judicator link muti aoe dmage to one target, that target must dead, another primed damage come out, just kill everything at last.)

 

and it helps saryn's vemon2, because you just need use it on judicator, and it'll link those damage to kill everything it links

 

I would love it if saryn's venom for example was a very effective way of taking out a Judicator. There should be interesting combos like that other than simply using miasma or other Ult's all the time.

 

For some reason you think I'm trying to create mobs that are invincible to all abilities. I am not. I'm simply trying to create mobs where shooting them in the head repeatedly, or pressing 4 isn't the best way to kill them for every frame, every time, over and over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way, in the hopes that this gets anywhere, i always had onde idea that i'll try to format like your ideas.

 

 

Corpus Para-Trooper - Truth be told Corpus were never meant to engage anything in melee. As soon as you get into melee range with those poor crewman they probably just scream in terror and do the only thing they were trained to do, hopelessly shoot at that thing coming at them. Well someone ought to stop those onslaught approaching tenno. The Para-Trooper would be a Corpus trooper with a jet-pack that let him hover the ground for high-speed movement (faster then a speeding Loki!) armed with a Spectra and a special Paralyzing pistol that would freeze you in place for about half a second.

 

He would need about 1 second to charge his paralyzing shot and would then stick you a bit with his Spectra before charging his paralyzing shot again. The paralyzing shot would be something close range and it would not knock the Tenno on the ground, just stop him where he is for about half a second. This would keep the Corpus where they're better at, at a distance, far away from the heavily-armed Tenno. 

 

The Para-trooper would look like a regular crewman but would hover above the ground with a jetpack attatched to his back. His Spectra should easily give him away as a target for the Tenno at a distance to take down if they wish to engage the corpus in close combat. He would be nearly as fragile and easy to take down as a Corpus Crewman, but constantly moving around making him not such an easy target (Unless you catch him by surprise, then he just hovers slowly like a sitting duck.)

 

Keeps the Tenno away from the troops

- Fires paralyzing shots that flinches Tenno.

- Hover around rapidly as a hard target.

- Spectra give away his position.

 

(I just recycled one of the enemies i'v posted an idea on from way back, hope it does something for ya. Also, i also don't think this one would work without some actually decent AI that KNOWS when to run away from the murdering Tennos.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way, in the hopes that this gets anywhere, i always had onde idea that i'll try to format like your ideas.

 

 

Corpus Para-Trooper - Truth be told Corpus were never meant to engage anything in melee. As soon as you get into melee range with those poor crewman they probably just scream in terror and do the only thing they were trained to do, hopelessly shoot at that thing coming at them. Well someone ought to stop those onslaught approaching tenno. The Para-Trooper would be a Corpus trooper with a jet-pack that let him hover the ground for high-speed movement (faster then a speeding Loki!) armed with a Spectra and a special Paralyzing pistol that would freeze you in place for about half a second.

 

He would need about 1 second to charge his paralyzing shot and would then stick you a bit with his Spectra before charging his paralyzing shot again. The paralyzing shot would be something close range and it would not knock the Tenno on the ground, just stop him where he is for about half a second. This would keep the Corpus where they're better at, at a distance, far away from the heavily-armed Tenno. 

 

The Para-trooper would look like a regular crewman but would hover above the ground with a jetpack attatched to his back. His Spectra should easily give him away as a target for the Tenno at a distance to take down if they wish to engage the corpus in close combat. He would be nearly as fragile and easy to take down as a Corpus Crewman, but constantly moving around making him not such an easy target (Unless you catch him by surprise, then he just hovers slowly like a sitting duck.)

 

Keeps the Tenno away from the troops

- Fires paralyzing shots that flinches Tenno.

- Hover around rapidly as a hard target.

- Spectra give away his position.

 

(I just recycled one of the enemies i'v posted an idea on from way back, hope it does something for ya. Also, i also don't think this one would work without some actually decent AI that KNOWS when to run away from the murdering Tennos.)

 

I love the jetpack idea. Not so keen on paralyzing pistol unless its telegraphed. Also, he'd just be massacred by anyone with a gun, right? I'm trying to go for mobs which aren't super easy to kill, but not bc they have lots of HP.

 

However, maybe the mob is really easy to kill, but once you kill him the jetpack(and built in weapons) drops to the ground for another corpus to pickup. Killing the jetpack itself is harder, due to a smaller weak point (or ground melee).

 

That would be more in line with the thread, but cool idea overall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Bastion is a terrible idea, making a 'trash mob' that can one-shot players. One-shotting players is generally something that should only be reserved for bosses, and even then it should be used exceptionally sparingly because dying instantly to a single mistake is not fun.

 

Also, if you introduce all of these enemies after Saturn, it means that a player hits a difficulty spike. Difficulty spikes are awful game design. If these enemies are introduced at all, because of their more complicated mechanics, they should show up right from the tutorial so you can be told how to defeat them independently and left to figure out how to defeat them in more complex arrangements yourself.

Spikes are awful and I know it. Such enemies would have to be introduced in stages or be specific to particular planets. The Bastion I agree is not a good idea. Shield maybe, 1 shotting? No.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a question, I've noticed the Corpus and Infested don't take that much more damage for what I would have assumed are 'headshots'.  So which 'most enemies' is the OP talking about?

Pretty much all enemies take more damage when shot in the head. All infested take 2x bullet damage when shot in the head.

 

Chargers' heads dangle below them, between their two front legs, which makes it difficult to headshot them.

 

Ancients take 2x damage on headshots (and an additional 1.5x bullet-type damage) on headshots, but their heads are armored, so if you don't have armor pierce or armor ignore, it's best to shoot them on the ends of their limbs (which take 1x damage, but are unarmored).

 

MOAs take 3x damage on their "fanny packs" (the large box on their back), and 2x damage to their heads. However, their head is between their legs; it is not to be confused with the gun/camera that makes up the top part of the MOA, which takes 0.5x damage.

 

Corpus Crewmen and Corpus Techs have take 0x bullet damage to their heads -- however, their head is still their weak point, as it takes 2x damage from all other sources (with an additional 2x armor piercing damage).

 

Source: Pwnatron's table, of course https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Au6mBXle3cFtdHBYUzVJaDJfdkIzSEN1cUh5UlRvckE&f=true&noheader=true&gid=11

Edited by litlir
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason the current mobs are bad is because their AI is bad.

 

-They have severely limited responses for dealing with tenno

-They don't work as a team

-They don't have skills to support each other

-They don't make tactical decisions

-They have poor decision making ability.

 

At the end of the day you're killing the same group of dumb grunts and encounters with them will play out the same 90% of the time. The closest to performing well are the Corpus.

 

Why are the Corpus better off:

-They accidentally work together, MOAs rush players in cover, flushing them out into the fire of waiting crewmen.

-Techs support their team with shield ospreys

-Corpus will huddle together under ospreys, shield ospreys will seek out Corpus to shield.

-They have a variety of units that create interesting situations

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason the current mobs are bad is because their AI is bad.

 

-They have severely limited responses for dealing with tenno

-They don't work as a team

-They don't have skills to support each other

-They don't make tactical decisions

-They have poor decision making ability.

 

At the end of the day you're killing the same group of dumb grunts and encounters with them will play out the same 90% of the time. The closest to performing well are the Corpus.

 

Why are the Corpus better off:

-They accidentally work together, MOAs rush players in cover, flushing them out into the fire of waiting crewmen.

-Techs support their team with shield ospreys

-Corpus will huddle together under ospreys, shield ospreys will seek out Corpus to shield.

-They have a variety of units that create interesting situations

 

 

Yup.  Add more diverse units like the OP has listed, and fix the AI to be significantly more challenging, and you can get rid of this +300% +400% HP/Damage/Shields/Recharge/Armor garbage and make this game really fun.  In my humble opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll add to the pile:

 

Corpus Assaulter

 

-Tech like unit stat wise, wields flux rifle.

-Calls active MOA units to his location (up to 5), these MOAs will follow him

-Rushes Tenno in cover

-Presence rallies corpus crewmen, they stop hiding behind cover and assist a charge on tenno positions.

-Death prompts retreat on corpus crewmen

 

Because prod crewmen need some one to cover their crazy box heads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would love it if saryn's venom for example was a very effective way of taking out a Judicator. There should be interesting combos like that other than simply using miasma or other Ult's all the time.

 

For some reason you think I'm trying to create mobs that are invincible to all abilities. I am not. I'm simply trying to create mobs where shooting them in the head repeatedly, or pressing 4 isn't the best way to kill them for every frame, every time, over and over.

actually it's another bullet sponge, you don't understand? We just put all bullets into jugicator's body and kill everything next to it=,= if thats not bullet sponge i don't know what should call bullet sponge..... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...