Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

On 2/28/2018 at 2:46 AM, BadWeatherGaming said:

Nekro just isn't a problem, I never see him let alone him be a problem, and I have never seen Frost be an issue either.

You said it was to make ember not kill as much, but in reality they brought her time to kill down so don't see the logic there. They just took away her ability to CC so she doesn't die when not surrounded by other frames letting them take all the heat from enemies in mid to late game.

Frames have a spot, pretty much each other them have their place. But being mad because your not killing as much as DPS frames in a tank or support is just being ridiculous. Play your frame to its strength and don't be mad when other players have a better build.

 

As for saying I'm being defensive about it and they are helping all players... You say that, but about half or more of the community is upset at at least 1 of the changes made with these changes. And players will just find another build to do the same thing and then its another frame killing everything that new players are upset about.

Usually I'm quiet about changes and take it in stride, but they made sweeping changes to most frames that make the grinds better. Next thing you know they will go for Nekros desicrate becuase it drops more rss and they player is just doing that and not killing. Or Nidus's 2 becuase it pulls all the targets from the other players. Players will always find strong builds and share them and they will get used. And the other players will complain. It is just an endless nerf cycle. Seems like some people would rather the frames have no special skills and everyone has bratons or boltors to do everything with.

You're very right, BadWeatherGaming! This happened terribly with Destiny to the point of, "why do we even need or have powers or special class perks"? 

I agree Ember can be a kill-hog. I remember when they nerfed Ash's BladeStorm by having the player mark enemies, which only slowed things down, but it was needed because players could just sit and hold 4. I was happy that they did that as you could cheese defense missions. 

The Ember range/WoF nerf destroyed the survivability she had on higher level content. Now she really is only good at clearing low level content quickly which is hilarious because that's why she was nerfed. 

Please, DE, do something better to Ember than clipping her "fire-wings"! 

 

[XNinja0]

oh great, lower ember's armor and give her no shields while you're at it too

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

4 minutes ago, XNinja0 said:

oh great, lower ember's armor and give her no shields while you're at it too

Genius

Also half her health she's still to OP

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)purpleskullgamin said:

Genius

Also half her health she's still to OP

Just to be sure, lets reduce it by three quarters.

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

Just to be sure, lets reduce it by three quarters.

EVEN BETTER  BUT WHAT ABOUT 7-8TH'S?

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by (PS4)purpleskullgamin

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)purpleskullgamin said:

EVEN BETTER  BUT WHAT ABOUT 7-8TH'S?

 

Brilliant!!

[Sahansral]

Am 21.2.2018 um 16:07 schrieb (Xbox One)BigLithuanian:

That is really stupid. His armor had nothing to do with anything that made him OP.

But it totally screwed up balance between the four energy abilities. Literally everyone took cold.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Sahansral

[Sl4sh32]

And about nerfs, how we can make solo missions now?

[LSG501]

On 23/02/2018 at 8:13 PM, Twistedsparkle said:

I cant believe you didnt address any of the ember feedback in the last devstream :/ 

You really think they're going to admit they screwed up this badly with ember... they've gone completely radio silent on the reworks to frames and I'm betting they're hoping we'll just get bored complaining about how bad some of these reworks are. 

[ChromaUmbra]

15 hours ago, Sahansral said:

But it totally screwed up balance between the four energy abilities. Literally everyone took cold.

And now everyone will take fire because it's the only one left that can somewhat tank high level stuff.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Bladefeather

[Sahansral]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Bladefeather:

And now everyone will take fire because it's the only one left that can somewhat tank high level stuff.

Cold is still viable for chroma playing single missions if you custom your build around it (e.g. Arcane grace).

But you are correct fire is now in the lead? Why?

* poison is still only for fun/niche builds

* lightning is weak because of the shields mechanic

* cold only helps group members who already have a good armor value while fire provides a buff to those squishy frames in an environment where many don't take any health mods at all.

Have chroma's energies  reached perfect balance? No. He needs further balance (Buff for poison, lightning, spectral scream and its augment, energy cost and game impact of effigy)

But this multiplicative armor calculation was very fishy, admit it. And don't forget that we can recast now. So in my book, chroma looks MUCH better/balanced right now then before. He's just not done yet.

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by Sahansral

[Lightning_Emperor]

This Ember World on Fire Re-vamp i dont like at all its going to hurt quite a few of the players out there who like me mostly play solo and main ember, Ember's World on Fire already had 1 re-vamp "that i know of" and i didnt mind that one as much, but this re-vamp is definetly no good, I stopped using Excalibur originally cause it was re-vamped and broken now this re-vamp is gonna break a great many ember builds and player playstyles, i may have to find a new main frame, its just gonna be hard to do that since ive put alot of work into my ember build, and i dont like most of the frames at all, not to mention the massive amount of time it took me to get "most" of the build mods i wanted, there was a few more i was planning on getting but ive no idea if i even want to do that anymore, not to mention it doesnt help that a past update during a time where i took a break from warframe broke the stats page so it no longer shows the proper amount of "hours played" that ive played, I love this game alot but some of the changes that are made to it to "revamp" things definetly are no good and end up breaking the game experience for alot of players. One key thing ive always followed my entire life, is if its not broken dont fix it, so please do not go thru with this change as it is no good.
I was also looking forward and super excited bout the possible unvaulting of the Ember prime frame that ive always wanted to have since i main Ember but now i dont know if i want to even bother spending $40 to get the Ember Prime pack due to these World on Fire changes since it means ill "most likely" have to rebuild atleast half of my frame's build setup and i dont have as much time as i used to to play warframe

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

On March 2, 2018 at 4:50 AM, Sahansral said:

But it totally screwed up balance between the four energy abilities. Literally everyone took cold.

I have always used fire. I personally never used cold Chroma

[(PSN)Kcaustin23]

Well hey guess its time to play other games. Just started out and already got changes to changes you just adapted to....

[(XBOX)DiggingScooby64]

You have completely killed Ember Prime...... no worth using in my opinion so thank you for ruining the game!  It has taken me hours to farm and then Forma.  The World on Fire ability is now useless and might as well be called Feet on Fire!  If other people are jealous then they should bloody well spend the time and hours farming it like the rest of us have.  Not at all happy.  Dont kill this game like Bungie have done with Destiny 2

On 2/27/2018 at 1:22 AM, BornWithTeeth said:

Mate, the joke is that the Ember changes didn't even succeed at their intended goal. If you want to pull low level stomp Ember, you just slot in an Overextended, and make sure your power strength doesn't fall too far and bam, annoying kill hog Ember still works just fine.

 

The rework completely failed to affect the targeted behaviour at low levels, and instead nerfed Ember at high levels.

Well they have successfully killed Ember this time it is now more than useless

On 2/8/2018 at 8:57 AM, Duffy1 said:

As someone who mains Ember, I'm not sure how I feel about the change, I use ember in very high levels, as a superior, close proximity CC. Standard range with the Fire Quake allows ember to survive with my weapons doing the damage, knocking down enemies as you get near with WoF, with the fire status also doing CC, the use of Accelerant to stun larger groups. Ember gets very little kills, Survival-ability is relied on the CC and fast movements and kills with melee and medium to long range weapons. I know of no one who uses Ember like this, but that is how I feel she should be used, an unseen potential, so much CC potential, overlooked. With this change, it will definitely allow her to scale in high levels... as a wipe out frame. However, despite my concerns I do think you are heading in the right direction.

Have you tried it?  I have just run three high level missions and it is more than useless

[(XBOX)AntharPrime]

I am not liking the change to Ember. If they are going to have such a massive energy drain they should remove the initial energy drain when you activate WoF.

[(XBOX)JeroVendelo99]

Bug with atlas... his petrify does not stay on 

[aFaFa]

I think the DE will rebalased to such a state abilities that they will no longer be used.. simply use weapons.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

So having finally played with and observed the changes to Ember, the weapons, Banshee, and Ash, I can provide proper feedback! (Huzzah console Tenno!) 

-Ember: All of her first 3 powers are in a really great place right now. Her Fireball is greatly improved with the new charge mechanic. Accelerant still works well, especially with the augment! Fire Blast is great with the new added bonus of Heat damage applying to weapons fired within the circle of flames! 

World on Fire is... okay? The range and the "burning hotter" double energy consumption rate work, but ugh... Survivability is down because this power was designed to be activated and left on, not turned on and literally burned away! 

I like that she must now stay active and move around as the range decreases, but it destroys her ability to CC effectively. In addition, Ember now burns through lower levels even faster than before! After reading what the devs wanted to do with her, she doesn't fit in her role of allowing other Tenno to get kills in lower levels and burning up enemies up to 30. 

She is too squishy without her pre-2018 range on WoF. She could be used previously in high level (60+) content because of her WoF augment providing CC. Now she is very quickly downed by anything slightly out of range. 

Something else has to be done about WoF! Maybe nerf WoF damage, but revert to her old range? In addition maybe have a feature on WoF that when held down, makes Ember stationary, increases damage over time, and quickly burns through her energy? 

The way this would work is that you would still have WoF going and working as in pre-2018 and Fire-status-ing targets, but with reduced damage, giving teammates the chance to get kills as well. When WoF is held down damage, range, and energy consumption drastically increase. The downside is that she is now stationary, and her energy is very quickly burned through. 

This would give players the ability to effectively CC with Ember again and provide players the extra oomph during battle at a cost. 

 

Now that Ember is out of the way I'll talk about the weapon buffs and mention a few I like personally, then on to Ash and Banshee! 

Weapons: 

Tiberon: great improvement with the critical chance and damage increases! Before it couldn't compete with other rifles because after a certain level it became useless. 

Burston (Prime): I really like the new changes in critical chance and damage as well. It still underperforms other rifles though. 

Boltor: Great improvements overall as well, but the Telos Boltor is the rifle king! Critical chance and damage and excellent weapon damage overall has it possibly outperforming the Prime version as well as the Soma... 

 

Banshee: Her #4 is very much... more interactive? Knocking enemies down and dealing a high amount of damage is great, but something is off. I now see people spamming her #4 over and over which has increased the amount of button presses at the expensive of the same amount of brain cells as before! 

Make Sound Quake more interactive by reverting it back to pre-2018, but with a few tweaks.  Make it stagger enemies as it did before, but allow them to recover and move albeit slowly until staggering again. The damage also should be alsoonly able to damage enemies in the direction the player pushes the stick. 

This would make Banshee an effective CC, squad mate, and increase interactivity by make no players pay attention to how they use her #4 instead of spamming it as they do now. 

Ash: short and sweet and to the point. The Blade Storm change in which Ash is able to remain independent from his damage-dealing clones really lets you continue to focus on the battle as opposed to being chained into a Blade Storm sequence in which your allies may or may not kill off the enemies before Blade Storm is finished. Good addition! 

Some of my thoughts I haven't tried the other reworks like Chroma and Zephyr, but hopefully I'll have the time to soon! 

 

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

Just wanted to let you know one of the issue I can see from the Ember changes. Given the cost per second has gone up, I find my self holding on to WOF until I pick up the focus thingy. This is to maximize my focus gain (and works well), but the unintended side effect is a lot of frowns by the other Tenno. It seems there's more people mad at then usual because of this tactic, which leads to think this might have made things a bit worst. I don't mind the change, but I felt like sharing. 

[bismarkc397]

cuando estara la actualizacion de atlas?

 

[Oran_Shinn]

Im going to be honest.  I quit the game over a year ago because of the disgusting nerf to Carrier and Carrier prime.  I just got back in tonight and low and behold just in time to find out you are going to completely nerf ember and make her utterly useless.  A better way to do her change would have been to half the damage of world on fire and leave the rest alone.  Halving it but still allowing her range and what not gives other players the ability to get shots or abilities or melee off before every thing dies after the first 5 rounds or minutes.  But to essentially make it so she can only use her ability for about 20 seconds before she gets her face smashed in is .... well I honestly cant find the words to describe the lack of thought or effort put into this.  I was hoping to come back for an extended time but once again you drive to get people to come back or join up from scratch is met with your poor decisions causing the player base you have to walk away.   Great game, great optimization, great visuals.   Love the non malicious way you implemented micro transactions.   Love the community presence and public interaction.  Hate the "what the actual eff" decisions that get made.  Good luck, you guys are way better than the rest of the competition and hope you can pull this thing back together and keep trucking, but I cant support lazy round robin of who's getting screwed this time.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

I know DE is listening to players suggestions, but again, Ember's WoF needs to be reviewed. Can we get any feedback from the devs on the next stream? 

[SolarDwagon]

16 hours ago, Oran_Shinn said:

Im going to be honest.  I quit the game over a year ago because of the disgusting nerf to Carrier and Carrier prime.  I just got back in tonight and low and behold just in time to find out you are going to completely nerf ember and make her utterly useless.  A better way to do her change would have been to half the damage of world on fire and leave the rest alone.  Halving it but still allowing her range and what not gives other players the ability to get shots or abilities or melee off before every thing dies after the first 5 rounds or minutes.  But to essentially make it so she can only use her ability for about 20 seconds before she gets her face smashed in is .... well I honestly cant find the words to describe the lack of thought or effort put into this.  I was hoping to come back for an extended time but once again you drive to get people to come back or join up from scratch is met with your poor decisions causing the player base you have to walk away.   Great game, great optimization, great visuals.   Love the non malicious way you implemented micro transactions.   Love the community presence and public interaction.  Hate the "what the actual eff" decisions that get made.  Good luck, you guys are way better than the rest of the competition and hope you can pull this thing back together and keep trucking, but I cant support lazy round robin of who's getting screwed this time.

The nerf where *every* sentinel got Vacuum? If that's all it took to make you leave, don't let the door hit you on the way back out.

[Eis_Katze]

so I tried Ember in a mission because I honestly havn't found a need to use her for in, well, months. Annnnd... lvl 38 mission extermination, everything seemed the same with WoF o`o   Maybe it's because I'm not stress testing my Ember, but... I played her with a short range and active turning 4 on/off before anyway. I rated her up to lvl50 for passive killing and she seems to be doing great near lvl40 grineer, maybe I'm missing something though, but I can't tell what. Then again I'm prob the odd one out given I loved Valk's rework and the whole community went ballistic at how 'trash she was without forever invincibility' XD

   However.
While I like the idea of Ember being able to lower range in place of power, this is giving her the ability to shotgun higher mobs with WoF, a power solely meant for wide area CC. If I want to shotgun people with a power, I'll use said Valk. I'm all for finding a way to increase my Ember's dps, but I'll rely on 2 & 3 for it, I don't think I need a forced range curve for it to happen.  I get people afk Ember and don't try with her and such, but lets be honest here, this game has a lot of farming, and a lot of time said farming is boring as Hek. I'd rather breeze my way through a low level mission with WoF than take 3x longer shooting everything behind a Rhino or Gara. I mean don't get me wrong, I love jumping into a mission with one of my fav frames and just tearing all my enemies asunder while laughing maniacally at how merciless they are XD But after you do it for the 10th time in a row, another 20 min poly farm, another cryo run, another hunt for something tedious and boring and ugh. Burn it, please just burn everything. I don't play Ember for kill competitions, I don't play Ember because lolz afk wof op af, and I don't play Ember for, well, any boss. I play Ember because she is a frame very specifically dedicated for very great lower level CC, and as such, I use her ability for this to further my goals like you would use a impact inplace of a breaker bar to save time and effort. All frames are a tool, geared for different things. I've had idiots over torque stuff on my car w/ impacts, but you don't go and outlaw them or make them all underpowered, people are always going to miss use things, it's the nature of humans. I play Ember for fun, I play Ember when I feel like she fits best at a situation, I play Ember because Chroma just doesn't burninate enough for me. Please, don't hurt my Ember because others missuse her, let her go wild and burn the world down for as far as she wants.

I'll tell you what, if people like afk'ing with Ember and that's the huge issue, then lets take a page from Nezha. Have Ember build up WoF dmg from her movements, and dissipate when she stands still, after all if you ever get a burning rage within you, you don't just stand still and act like a statue, you go nuts, like a kid who just ate all his Halloween candy AND stole the rest of your coffee! Bullet jumping, sliding, shooting, slash n dash kills with sexy Galatine, let it all add to the fire!

If the issue is her being able to kill steal for lower level Tenno, well... hate to say it, but I can kinda map sweep low level Tenno stuff with other frames, just with a slight bit more effort. even with just weapons, it's not hard. Maybe I'm missing the issue, but I'm sure when I start playing with Ember again, I'll miss her range more, after all I already keep it short. o`o