Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[DeltaPangaea]

5 minutes ago, KokoroWish said:

Also as a Hysteria using Valkyr main, let me reassure you that Valkyr is completely playable after that change. Sure, you can't keep going forever, but you can still keep on for a long time. She has no problem in Sorties.

Valkyr still suffers heinously from her early game introduction and the design they had at the time. She has sweet FA for shields, to the point she basically may as well not even have them, but doesn't have anywhere near the tools to deal with being shieldless that Inaros and Nidus do. She's terribly designed.

Ripline is finicky to aim at people directly, and its mobility application is largely superseded by the improvements to movement made in Parkour 2.0

Why does Paralysis drain shields to boost its damage, when its damage is &#! anyway and it's never used for damage?

Warcry's alright I guess. It could probably do with being toggled, but that's just personal taste.

And Hysteria is such a goddamn critical part of her kit that she just falls over without it. She just doesn't function.

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

I agree that ember is gonna be kinda s#hit now. I actually posted some Ideas for a new kit, the day of the dev workshop. Check it out and lemme know what you think?

 

 

I don't think that Ember will be completely ruined by this, but I do think that her ability to work at higher levels will suffer for the changes. Not ruined, just a bit crippled.

 

I like some of your ideas, by the way! Your suggestion for her (1) is really neat.

[Maka.Bones]

3 hours ago, Cryoguard said:

Why is this an issue? A few channeled abilities that can compare with this are Razorwing (1.25 energy/sec), Fire Walker (1.25 energy/sec), Renewal (.5 energy/sec channeling + .75 energy/sec for each target being healed), and Defy (1.25 energy/sec). For anyone who uses these frames consistently, we know that these abilities are completely manageable WITHOUT any assistance outside energy orbs (including Arcane Energize).

Those frames aren't caster frames though. Not for the most part. Also, have you tried playing titania-sazorwing mode at high lvl, with her new augment? And especially ember, supposedly being a caster frame, her energy costs at max power are already insane. What you're suggesting would make her unplayable as a caster frame, and pointless to play at all because she would no longer be a caster frame, she has no survivability (even with increased armor, because her base defensive stats are poor) would barely have CC, and her 1, and 3 are pretty much useless.

No, please no to the energy cost increase. It would be horrid.

[KunoUshinawa]

26 minutes ago, Xantheis said:

Oh cool - when did you play her changes?  I am interested in your take on them now that you have played them.

 

Oh... you havent?  interesting.  How can that comment be a 'flat faced' lie then when you only have conjecture to go on?  

This is such a S#&$ argument it's not even funny. And I'm not trying to beat you down or anything I'm just sick of hearing this garbage argument.

Like for example I know that with the suggested change for Ember, using the mods I have on, it knocks my range from 22 meters down to 11 meters.... Mobs start shooting at you at 20-25 meters so, I have to close about 10 meters before I can CC them, Ember is squishy so she'll die pretty quickly around, eh, Uranus, I know with my current mod setup her energy drain is 1.2/s so doubling that puts it at 2.4/s which is only 0.6/s less than running her with no mods... At higher levels energy orbs drop less often meaning I'm more likely to run out of energy and die. Double damage means I'm doing... 1160 fire damage per tick, which sounds good and against infested IS good, however against Corpus that damage first hits shields so eh, as for Grineer they are tanky as hell so ugh, and I still have to get twice as close so damage is almost irrelevant.

This means in sorties I can CC for half as long and I CC half as much area, meaning my group and I are four times as dead.... So math, that's how we know it's bad without playing with the changes. Quit telling me I can't know how bad it is if I can't yet play it.

[(PSN)ST-ChaoticMayhem]

how do you have 230-270 strength and 8x multiplier?
 

oh wait nvm i forgot about blind rage. how did you fix the loss of energy efficiency?

Edited February 4, 2018 by (PS4)Chaotic_Mayhem30

[IfritKajiTora]

1. Spectral scream is quite useless, it should get increased range from 10 meters to 15 meters, to make it actually a good CC ability.

4.Chroma effigy 
a) Chroma effigy isn't powerful it stuns enemies and reduced his survability by a lot because of armor reduction and cost 5 energy which is too much for the ability like that. Reduce energy on cast from 50 to 25 energy and drain energy per second from 10 to 2.5 energy per second. Excalibur exalted blade is a lot powerful than Effigy but it cost 2x less energy, which is a weak balance.
b)Reduce armor by half, but increase damage by 2x (NOT affected by power strength), still 10 energy per second, a short damage buff because of high energy cost and armor reduction. This can be a nice buff to damage for a vex armor nerf chroma will get.
            A fine addon: Press X near effigy to make it follow you, so it can work as a second sentinel. Press X again to make it stay in the place.

Edited February 4, 2018 by IfritKajiTora

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I like some of your ideas, by the way! Your suggestion for her (1) is really neat.

Ty ty! ^^ Some friends in Quiette Shy's discord also helped me with some ideas. 

 

and yeah, ember will probably still be playable at lower lvls... but once you're doing endgame content that's all you really do, for the most part. I'd actually like to start using her for endgame content. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[phoenix1992]

1 minute ago, Uzkost said:

This is such a S#&$ argument it's not even funny. And I'm not trying to beat you down or anything I'm just sick of hearing this garbage argument.

Like for example I know that with the suggested change for Ember, using the mods I have on, it knocks my range from 22 meters down to 11 meters.... Mobs start shooting at you at 20-25 meters so, I have to close about 10 meters before I can CC them, Ember is squishy so she'll die pretty quickly around, eh, Uranus, I know with my current mod setup her energy drain is 1.2/s so doubling that puts it at 2.4/s which is only 0.6/s less than running her with no mods... At higher levels energy orbs drop less often meaning I'm more likely to run out of energy and die. Double damage means I'm doing... 1160 fire damage per tick, which sounds good and against infested IS good, however against Corpus that damage first hits shields so eh, as for Grineer they are tanky as hell so ugh, and I still have to get twice as close so damage is almost irrelevant.

This means in sorties I can CC for half as long and I CC half as much area, meaning my group and I are four times as dead.... So math, that's how we know it's bad without playing with the changes. Quit telling me I can't know how bad it is if I can't yet play it.

You can actually test the new build right now.

There is a mod in the game Ember player don't run because it is mostly considered bad build, but mimics the change a lot - Blind rage. You can adjust your range with narrow minded and other mods as well.

I did test it, it was bad.

[Cryssoberyl]

Reposting my in-depth feedback from the Dev Workshop thread, for visibility:

---

I am cautiously optimistic about the changes being made to Zephyr, my main and favorite frame. I now wish to offer some detailed and constructive thoughts and ideas about her rework. I hope the devs will find them worth considering.

Firstly, although it has promise to be very useful, I foresee some problems with the hover aspect of Tail Wind if it isn't done right. Warframe has a lot of enclosed spaces or areas that have deceptively low vertical "out of bounds". There are a lot of places where a vertical Tail Wind will get you nothing but a black screen and a teleport back onto the ground. If you can't control the height at which she stops to hover, there may be some trouble there. Also, please do not make it a charge input. Charging  involves standing still and doing nothing for a moment, which in Warframe is often a great way to get killed. One thing more: Are the damage elements of Tail Wind and Dive Bomb being buffed? They need to be.

The big deal is her tornado change, which will allow "100% of the damage of shooting the tornado to be transmitted to enemies trapped within it". Again, there are a lot of details here that could determine how good this actually is. Does that mean EVERY enemy will take 100% of the damage, effectively multiplying it many many times? Or will 100% of the damage be split and distributed between enemies as-is? I am assuming the former, as the latter would be extremely weak and essentially pointless, especially if large numbers of enemies are caught within the funnel. By contrast, allowing each enemy to take full damage would give Zephyr a powerful new offensive support role within groups. Also, currently there is no way to critical-hit the tornados, or to status-proc them. Will this be changed so that those will also transmit to enemies? A lot of damage will be lost if they aren't. Lastly on this subject, the notes say that tornados will do "a better job" of keeping enemies confined in the funnel. It really needs to be "a 100% reliable job", or we still have the same problem we always had. (Another question just occured to me: How will these mechanics interact with bosses and/or other large enemies that cannot be lifted by the tornadoes?)

Then there's her new ability, Air Burst. Zephyr absolutely needed a brand new power, and it needs to be a very good one to help raise her profile. All we know is that it's a projectile that will explode in an AoE and ragdoll enemies. Honestly the dev stream did an extremely poor job of showcasing this ability, it was impossible to see what it looked like or how it worked in detail. How much damage will it do? How forceful will the ragdoll be? Direct-damage warframe abilities are often weak, because their power simply does not scale up appropriately to match higher level enemies. PLEASE ensure that this ability offers substantial and scaling damage; lack of respectable damage output is one of the main reasons Zephyr has been in the basement for a long time. As to the CC side of the ability, as we know from Tornado, ragdolls can actually be a bad thing, knocking enemies around instead of killing them and actually making it harder to do so.

Finally I wish to bring up her largely unused augments, Funnel Clouds and Dive Bomb Vortex. Funnel Clouds has a good foundation to it, I personally love the idea of summoning a large number of tornados and just filling an area with windstorm chaos, but unless they can also still capture enemies, it will remain pointless. Rather I propose a complete redesign whereby the movement speed of the tornados is DRASTICALLY increased, such that they can easily keep up with Zephyr as she runs through a mission, yet they will also remain at a close, fixed distance from her. This would give Tornado an "on the move" role functionality that is completely different from its normal use, as it is a very stationary ability by default.

Dive Bomb Vortex was a very bad augment for a very bad skill, and the best use that can be made of it is for it to become an augment for the new Air Burst. As the ability is new and at this point could still do lots of different things, there's plenty of room for experimentation here, but I have a specific suggestion based on some old ideas of mine about a Zephyr rework: let the augment be called Slicing Gale, and allow it to give Air Burst a flat chance to inflict slash procs on enemies caught in the blast. As I already mentioned, Zephyr badly needs buffs to her offensive capability, and in addition to the raw damage I hope to find in Air Burst, an augment of this kind would give her an offensive status capacity as well.

Thank you for finally giving Zephyr some attention. It was long awaited and badly needed. I hope this feedback seems useful and reasonable, and I would be delighted if it were influential in your decisions regarding her rework. Thank you for reading.

[Xantheis]

Just now, Uzkost said:

This is such a S#&$ argument it's not even funny. And I'm not trying to beat you down or anything I'm just sick of hearing this garbage argument.

Like for example I know that with the suggested change for Ember, using the mods I have on, it knocks my range from 22 meters down to 11 meters.... Mobs start shooting at you at 20-25 meters so, I have to close about 10 meters before I can CC them, Ember is squishy so she'll die pretty quickly around, eh, Uranus, I know with my current mod setup her energy drain is 1.2/s so doubling that puts it at 2.4/s which is only 0.6/s less than running her with no mods... At higher levels energy orbs drop less often meaning I'm more likely to run out of energy and die. Double damage means I'm doing... 1160 fire damage per tick, which sounds good and against infested IS good, however against Corpus that damage first hits shields so eh, as for Grineer they are tanky as hell so ugh, and I still have to get twice as close so damage is almost irrelevant.

This means in sorties I can CC for half as long and I CC half as much area, meaning my group and I are four times as dead.... So math, that's how we know it's bad without playing with the changes. Quit telling me I can't know how bad it is if I can't yet play it.

OK.  then change your build - 22 meters isnt a lot of range as it is. until you play their final version of the change, you will not know how it reacts.  Maybe you run with it on for 20 sec then turn it off and back on.  maybe you decide to mix up the abilities more.  There are options and until you play it, you wont know what works.  

the devs will absolutely be monitoring and will adjust if needed.  maybe not on your timeline but, it will get adjusted if they see in the data that it needs to be.  or it wont.  either way, play it before screaming that the sky is falling. 

[(PSN)WeaverDuck]

Base cost of effigy is 10e/s... Dont know why DE havent changed this yet, insane cost for what it does

[Twistedsparkle]

alot of people are freaking out on some of the upcoming changes but Im personally very excited to see how these changes will affect the gameplay

Disclaimer:this post is appointed directly as a personal feedback for the developers Im not trying to argue or push my views on warframe down anyones throat
Im sure many of you will disagree with me and that is completely fine
just so you know Im not trying to start an argument

first of all I wanna say I really like this style of making alot of changes to bunch of warframes not just 1 or 2
personally I wanna see more of these "bulk revisits"
Ill add a wishlist which frames I wanna see changes at the end of the post

so lets get looking at the upcoming changes and what I think should be done differently or if there was something that was overlooked

atlas
overall I really like these changes I dont have anything particular to say about the ability changes
however! I really think atlas could benefit from a larger healthpool

volt
the upcoming discharge changes seem promising but honestly I think volt needs work in other areas
he could use more survivability he has most survivability stats in shields and we all know that shields dont scale very well to end game
either buff shields or maybe give our boy more armor?
then the very low duration of speed ability was not addressed I really think it should be buffed
also "speed" is like volts main thing so why is it that he has very average sprint speed of 1.00
I personally would love to see him gain the title "fastest frame of them all" but thats just me
I would love to see it buffed to the fastest there is currently 1.25 but honestly even 1.15 would be great
also final note his first ability is mainly used for quickly stunning enemies but that stun is very short so.. maybe double that?
volt is my favorite warframe alongside with excalibur

ember
embers biggest problem is surviving and dealing any significant damage to armored enemies
so my issue with the upcoming changes is definitely the diminishing range nerf I personally dont use any extra range on my builds so I just hope Im not gonna be stuck with a 5m world on fire coz that will definitely ruin my build and force me to use range mods to compensate
I suggest putting a cap how much the range can be diminished to the base 12-15m that way those of us who dont even use WoF for extra range wont get destroyed completely
ember could use more love for her armor and there needs to be more ways to deal with armor so that she can do her job better as a potential damage dealer not  just cc

chroma
spectral scream looks really wonky when  chroma is running its almost like he is drooling fire not breathing it
I think that needs to be changed also it needs more range and Im not convinced of its damage potential
the augment for it could also use some love maybe make it shoot those cool beams every 2 seconds while spectral scream is active or something like that
oh and it needs more damage
as for vex armor changes I dont really mind the dmg nerf I know the ability is overpowered currently it was bound to be changed sooner or later
however the duration should be increased so that you wouldnt need narrow minded for good duration that way people would be more encouraged to utilize the new aura buff for allies
also Im still upset that my dragon cant fly >:/ #dragonswannaflytoo

banshee
I dont mind this change to her augment rather Im actually more concerned is this gonna be just as intrusive with constant spamming
however I think the base ability itself needs some sort of buff it seriously doesnt deal alot of damage on its own
also her 3rd ability silence should to be recastable and maybe make her 1 open animation instead of locked animation like it is now


zephyr
I have nothing major to add at this point the rework looks pretty promising
I think the base damage type of tornado however should be changed to something else I mean why magnetic? that has always puzzled me
also I hope you do something for the annoying passive it makes zephyr incredibly annoying to use

mag
mags biggest problems are energy economy and survivability
again shields as a mechanic really need a buff in order to be effective way to mod for
she hogs energy alot even with max efficiency builds so some way of getting energy back would be nice like making the 1st ability give a chance on cast on enemy instead of kill like it is now
also her 3 still cant really remove armor effectively maybe chance that to flat ratio instead of percentage?

ash
I like the way he is going
looks like alot of fun I have nothing major to add at this point

gara
nothing to add at this point
looks pretty good to me

whew thats it

now the warframe abilitites I personally would like see changes to in hopefully the next bulk are

excalibur radial javelin
problem:doesnt scale (maybe scaling it with combo counter and benefitting from melee mods?)

mesa ballistic battery
problem: locked animation,needs to be charged and only one shot= clunky to use and in most cases unnecessary

nekros soul punch
problem:no synergy at all with the rest of the kit and is disturbingly simple=kinda boring

wukong the entire kit
problem: exploitative and boring and ulti is very clunky and hard to use some of the combos

nyx psychic bolts
problem:damage ability that feels out of place and is very weak

nova her 1,2,3 abilites
problem:her first ability is very weak second ability is clunky to use and her 3rd is expensive and situational

vauban tesla and minelayer
problem:very weak and cannot compete with the rest of the kit in terms of utility

valkyr ripline
problem:clunky to use and overshoots enemies that are pulled also clunky to use for mobility

trinity well of life
problem:cannot compete with blessing making it undesirable to use

rhino roar
problem:overly simple and boring why doesnt it taunt enemies or something? also make it recastable?

also all the stealth ability mechanics are really boring and make you almost immortal with extended durations
I think those should be looked at

Edited February 4, 2018 by Twistedsparkle

[Mepheri]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)DevilishSix said:

I never understood this press 4 to win.  If you are complaining about Ember stealing kills at lower level, so what.  I could sneeze and kill the lower level enemies.  Ember is not end game viable and those that run her in higher levels only use her for crowd control not damage.  She doesn't deal enough damage even with this so called damage buff.  Did you see the dev stream where rebecca was running Ember in a survival?  As soon as Ember ran out of energy, she was dead.  WoF is for CC and survivability and now that the range decrease and energy drain is double she has no roll in this game now.  She wont be able to keep enemies at range and she will be dead constantly.  That is not fun why play her with these changes, what are you supposed to be accomplishing.

its about how low effort ember's 4 is.

I agree that its a bad change due to her now being pretty much useless, since she lost her cc at high levels.

[(PSN)Tenudin]

Thanks DE. Not only is my favorite warframe non-viable for top end missions, she is now pointless in the lower tier stuff too. Congrats. You just killed ember right in time for that unvaulting. How the hell is she supposed to be the glass cannon of warframe when damn near every other frame is better already in top end content? And now this?

Edited February 4, 2018 by (PS4)Tenudin

[IfritKajiTora]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Z3vrill said:

Base cost of effigy is 10e/s... Dont know why DE havent changed this yet, insane cost for what it does

Oh lol you are right, that's insane!

While playing with excalibur is easy. 2.5 energy per second....

[Maka.Bones]

Also, if you like some of my suggestions pls don't forget to comment about it & upvote, so DE gets more visibiity of it!

[Junsuina]

On 2/2/2018 at 2:03 PM, [DE]Connor said:

EMBER

World On Fire - 5 seconds after casting, a percentage will begin counting up on the ability icon. As this percentage scales from 0% to 100% over 10 seconds, the ability’s energy cost and damage dealt both grow to double, while the ability radius shrinks to half.
 

Ember is the original damage caster frame, offering low survivability in exchange for high offense. Her ultimate, World on Fire, is unmatched in terms of widespread lethality - while many Warframes specialize in certain mission types, Ember’s specialty is “anything under level 30”. By simply bullet jumping through levels with World on Fire active, enemies become a non-factor, making Ember a ubiquitous pick across most of the Star Chart. Like a mobile Resonating Quake, this monopoly on kills can leave squadmates struggling to keep up, in an attempt to see the enemy before they melt. These changes increase lethality at higher levels, while addressing the ability’s huge range.

World on Fire will continue working similarly to how it does now, but with changing effects over time. The gradually increasing energy cost should encourage most players to toggle the ability when needed, instead of the current “set and forget” approach. Players who can afford to run the ability at max charge may need to get more up close and personal, but the increased damage should help Ember out against higher level enemies.  World on Fire is still very capable of clearing rooms and sweeping hallways, but should now be applied more deliberately!

Ember's new range, assuming you have an augment to make it at least 21m.

Ember's current range, assuming you have at least 21m.

And I'm only getting increased energy cost and double damage? So I'll see numbers of 40-78 in sorties and almost no CC outside of melee range? I'm better off using my slam attack. Ember, at higher level maps, has been about her range and CC as the damage output is negligible. Take those away for balancing on low level maps and there is nothing there to keep her afloat for high level. From the summary, it seems you only want us to use her below level 30 and not in anything higher while simultaneously shoe-horning that ideal through this nerf (yes, it's a nerf because that range is arguably more valuable than the power due to the Firequake augment).

[CryoSpecter]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

Those frames aren't caster frames though. Not for the most part. Also, have you tried playing titania-sazorwing mode at high lvl, with her new augment? And especially ember, supposedly being a caster frame, her energy costs at max power are already insane. What you're suggesting would make her unplayable as a caster frame, and pointless to play at all because she would no longer be a caster frame, she has no survivability (even with increased armor, because her base defensive stats are poor) would barely have CC, and her 1, and 3 are pretty much useless.

No, please no to the energy cost increase. It would be horrid.

Max power requires blind rage which means negative efficiency... of course things will get expensive then. Also, Titania and Oberon are both caster frames (and Oberon doesn't even need max efficiency to be playable). And I fail to see the relevance of Titania's new augment? If you play Titania to her full potential, you're already using 1 for status immunity, 2 for buffs, and 3 for mass CC.

Also, most WoF Embers appear to only be advocating against the changes but fail to mention ever using any other abilities on this caster frame (2 provides a good damage boost and that plus her 3 both have some decent CC potential). I also presented options for giving her more survivability instead. This thread provided several potential solutions to this, only one of which was increased energy ramping. Also, with these new changes a max power build won't be necessary since the damage will double on its own.

They're already adding energy ramping, the reality is no point in doing a half-baked energy ramp (in my opinion) if it isn't going to fix the problem they have in the long run.

[SoulEchelon]

So, way, WAY back during Warframe's beta, there was an ability Ember had called Overheat.

To those who don't know of it, Overheat acted basically like Rhino's ironskin but timed. With the right setup, Ember could mitigate around 90% of the damage she took. It also did close range damage to anyone nearby. Basically, a close ranged WoF with a defensive buff. Good stuff, but perhaps a little overpowered at the time. Everyone figured it would be nerfed a bit.

It wasn't just nerfed. It was gutted. They completely changed it by removing the defensive buff. Eventually, they removed the ability altogether and slipped in Accelerant instead. Accelerant is a pretty good ability. It really is. But it's nowhere near as helpful as Overheat was.

DE, it's time to bring back Overheat.

Before this update she was barely viable in high end content with her Firequake augment. Now, well, I'm trying not to have a kneejerk reaction but I just don't see her being able to survive or be helpful in any way anymore. Of course I and everyone else will test her effectiveness, change our mods accordingly, and so on, but with her base stats as they are now, I don't feel she'll be able to sustain herself in high level content. There are some people going on about melee builds, but Healing Return and Life Strike won't help much when you're getting one-shotted from an errant Bombard missile.

If you're going to have her ult be more effective at close range, Overheat needs to come back. Make Accelerant also give a similar Overheat defensive buff, or add the buff to WoF, or something. Anything. At this moment in time I'm unable to see her surviving well at this point. Maybe I'll prove myself wrong when this goes live, but I kinda doubt it.

I understand she's supposed to be a glass cannon damage dealer/CCer, but if she can't survive long enough to do any damage or barely any CC (And let's face it, she wasn't doing much damage at high level content anyway and there are FAR better options for CCing), then she's unable to do those jobs. This change may potentially make her unviable for everything other than low level Infested missions. I really hope that's not what comes to pass, as she'll always be one of my favorite warframes.

Edited February 4, 2018 by SoulEchelon

[(PSN)waterdog77]

It is out of my place to say this, and could you guys buff Frost sprint speed? I feel like when I go to more abilities focus builds " like Snow globe or ice wave" he seems to be every show without a Rush or Amour agility mods. If I do add those mods in place of other mods to help maximizing that strength of these builds I feel I lost effectiveness in overall play. Thank you for the volt changes as a player. Ember since her world on fire is getting changed, and her playstyleis really dependent of that skill. Without it she'll be a really crap frame. My I suggest that when her passive is active she gain a 5% heal if this focus is moving towards a melee frame. Gare make her Spectrorage more effective as a crowd control skill. Have us to separate the mirrors and use one of them as a shield,and with a 75% damage reduction when she receive damage have her draw aggro among the enemy units.

Edited February 4, 2018 by (PS4)waterdog77

[(PSN)WeaverDuck]

With chroma's effigy as dumb and almost useless in higher lvl combat (guided effigy spam does not count as this playstyle is rather $&*&*#(%&) as it is now, I'd say 3e/s is a good cost, we could put blind rage without totally ruining elemental ward and vex armour 

Edit: this censorship is funny... 

Edited February 4, 2018 by (PS4)Z3vrill

[Shadedraxe]

22 hours ago, mkoo33 said:

It's been done with the latest upgrade. Now it's back to it's fullest :)

Wait they gave Arca Plasmor headshot multipliers again? Or do you just mean the fix for the bug where Arca Plasmor did 0 damage on headshots? Because that was unintentional.

[Maka.Bones]

Oberon is a brawler caster... he doesn't spam his abilities constantly, he just needs to upkeep them.

I already mentioned my example with titania. As you said, people don't usually keep her razorwing up fulltime.  The issue with her augment, is that you can't really eficiently get blue motes in RW because lack of vaccum, and the movement makes her hard to maneuver. It is nice tho, but then keeping it up fulltime it becomes a huge energy burden, so it isn't practical. 

 

that's why most other frames can get away with higher energy costs.

 

I do like the direction of ember's changes, but simply giving a half-baked change will still leave ember in a poor state. I'm not asking to kill everything in a room, with one button. I'd like to be able to use all of her abilities, and for them to synergize together. 

[BornWithTeeth]

Also, I'm happy to go into Sortie or an hour long Axi Survival or similar and bring Ember, show folks how she works.

[Maka.Bones]

12 minutes ago, Cryoguard said:

(2 provides a good damage boost and that plus her 3 both have some decent CC potential)

her 2 is decent, yes... but the need to constantly reapply it at 35 energy, is kinda bad. Would be better if it worked more like titania's lamp, or banshee's silence.

Her 3 sucks. Really, it stops being useful after lvl 15.... yes you can re-cast it and stack it, but it costs 75 energy each time. Cast it 5 times, to be useful, and that's almost all your energy gone. Assuming you also primed them with accelerant, you've lost 485 energy, and you probably have 10-15 seconds left on the aoe... ok so now how are you going to get enough energy to cast another 5 circles, and also cast accelerant?  Not to mention, that would be very static & boring gameplay, with poor range for AoE damage (excluding the initial heatwave, which does crap damage past lvl 35)

 

That's my point... For ember to be viable, her abilities need to be constantly casted... WoF was the only ability that could be consistently upheld... and that's *one* ability. She was always considered kinda bad for endgame, now she's gonna be worse.

 

If you want to give her survivability, she will need to have abilities that will scale with the level of enemies

Edited February 4, 2018 by Maka.Bones