Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[(XBOX)NeutralSilence]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Regiampiero said:

You just said she can't do damage, now you're saying she can. I'm not sure what's your point of view any more. All I'm saying is that she was missing damage dealing before imo, which this update might actually medicate. Of course I would have to see the math first, but a percentage of the armor + a percentage of the damage dealt to the target has a very good chance of turning Mag from a support frame to an overall good frame. 

You want to suggest increasing the effectiveness of shield polarize? Cool I'm down with that, but it doesn't mean she needs it at the moment. At least not for me. 

Yea I really don't think your getting my point. I never said Mag couldn't do any damage. As a matter of fact, her only niche is that she can do tons of damage (with the right weapon) in a certain area with Magnetize. Her Polarize needs to be effective now, not later. "Later" to DE  is different to "Later" to us.

[Ellisaria]

On 2/2/2018 at 11:15 AM, Xyhon said:

Also, can you please stop with "nerf this nerf that", and start focusing on ridiculous armor/etc scaling on 100+ lvls?

Next thing, energy consumption. You are forcing us more and more to move into uncomfortable zone with energy gains, and using "the one and only" mod setup. Which, tbh, is ain't fair. 

PS. took you long enough to consider damage scaling based on enemies... Now, wouldn't it be better to just implement it WF wide, and this way reduce scaling of damage/hp/energy costs? It's better to work on %% than solid numbers.

This. So much this.

[(XBOX)x Varda x]

RIP Ember and Banshee speed running fun. I use ember to destroy low to mid level missions which would otherwise be tedious. Banshee whole map quake for speed relic farming. 

I do these missions solo most of the time. Running missions on public and potentially coming across ember wof and banshee quake users is player choice. If people find it ‘ruins the fun’ they can always go with a premade team from recruiting.

All this seems is a way of preventing people running low level missions quickly so play times can be extended in tedious farming as you have to shoot enemies one by one while waiting ages for them to reach the Defence pod (Earth Lith).

I was considering getting the Ember P unvault pack for a second Ember P to play with and the Syandana. Can’t see the point now.

[(PSN)Glaceon_Frost101]

On 2/2/2018 at 2:10 PM, xXDeadsinxX said:

Thanks! Time to read! 

My opinions on the purposed changes,

 

Ember

• Ember’s World on Fire is receiving a deserved nerf and a buff all at the same time, which I’m certainly glad about. You are still able to kill all the enemies far away from you, but the range will shrink every few seconds, which is good since being able to kill enemies across the map was broken. However, the buff aspect of WoF is that the damage will be doubled while you have the ability active, so that’s a big bonus for Ember.

 

Nope this is a nerf not a buff, it does "buff" her for star chart missions to not "finish the mission faster" but however for high lv missions her world on fire does nothing but to keep her alive thanks to firequake regardless of dmg boosted or not, range decrease means more chances of getting killed by heavy units , and more energy drain means that we'll have to invest on efficiency and duration heavily , the boost on dmg itself sounds nice till you realize fire dmg is reduced by shields and heavily reduced against armor anyways, which sucks to see her to be nerfed on days before her unvaulting rather than having a mission filter so your more likely to team up with players with warframes you have selected 

[(PSN)Glaceon_Frost101]

On 2/2/2018 at 2:16 PM, (PS4)Vagnar said:

Go watch a vid of Oberon killing 6 in one night solo. The solo is totally possible still. Chroma just won't be as potent.

ssssshhh keep your voice down de might nerf him if they find out (ewe )

[(PSN)Glaceon_Frost101]

15 minutes ago, (Xbox One)x Varda x said:

RIP Ember and Banshee speed running fun. I use ember to destroy low to mid level missions which would otherwise be tedious. Banshee whole map quake for speed relic farming. 

I do these missions solo most of the time. Running missions on public and potentially coming across ember wof and banshee quake users is player choice. If people find it ‘ruins the fun’ they can always go with a premade team from recruiting.

All this seems is a way of preventing people running low level missions quickly so play times can be extended in tedious farming as you have to shoot enemies one by one while waiting ages for them to reach the Defence pod (Earth Lith).

I was considering getting the Ember P unvault pack for a second Ember P to play with and the Syandana. Can’t see the point now.

lets be honest nobody likes to kill the same enemies for 10 waves for possible two relics and repeating the mission again (also the new relics are avaible on bounties )

[(XBOX)x Varda x]

Just now, (PS4)Glaceon_Frost101 said:

lets be honest nobody likes to kill the same enemies for 10 waves for possible two relics and repeating the mission again (also the new relics are avaible on bounties )

I do as I can do it in a few mins with Banshee and just relax after bad day at work

[(PSN)Glaceon_Frost101]

but with the current resonating quake or without the augment?

[(XBOX)x Varda x]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Glaceon_Frost101 said:

but with the current resonating quake or without the augment?

With the augment. Makes it super quick on Earth Lith and Jupiter Io (bring Deth machine gun to pop nully bubbles)

[Lucidess]

Well i'm glad the changes are coming out finally. I don't care what kind of changes they are, but change is good.

Anyone calling it a nerf, or trying to make up an excuse to use an afk nuke build in a online game; it's pointless now.

[(PSN)Glaceon_Frost101]

Just now, Lucidess said:

Well i'm glad the changes are coming out finally. I don't care what kind of changes they are, but change is good.

Anyone calling it a nerf, or trying to make up an excuse to use an afk nuke build in a online game; it's pointless now.

its not really a nuke tbh 

[(PSN)Glaceon_Frost101]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)x Varda x said:

With the augment. Makes it super quick on Earth Lith and Jupiter Io (bring Deth machine gun to pop nully bubbles)

thats what im talking about good i dont see the problem in staying the same spot for less than 4mins just to get the mission over and get my mission done end of the story, its faster and efficient than directly killing them wave after wave 

[Balfaulx]

1 minute ago, Lucidess said:

Well i'm glad the changes are coming out finally. I don't care what kind of changes they are, but change is good.

Anyone calling it a nerf, or trying to make up an excuse to use an afk nuke build in a online game; it's pointless now.

As long as the grind remains the way it is and they keep adding items then nuke frames will be needed. If they nerf all nuke frames without still properly addressing the grind issues this game suffers from, the game will become so boringly slow to progress people will simply quit.

They've been doing this dance around the grind issue forever and its the reason the pizza void was wiped for the new relic system. Yet they clearly show they want missions to be harder and more difficult to complete but still want you to do 150+ of the same one for stuff you need.

This goes one of two ways you make the game hard like dark souls and missions really hard but greatly increase the rewards to match. Or you have people needing to do 150+ of a mission to get the same rewards with frames that make it just painfull enough to not quit.

Right now the amount of items in game grows regularly increasing need for grind at the same time they nerf the best frames for grinding over and over this is not a sustainable model and will cost the community in the long run.  

DE needs to pick which one they want the game to follow.

Quick analogy

Your a mercenary I say hey I have this contract for you it pays the same as always but it will take months to complete your going to be alone slogging through enemy territory your chance of surviving is almost 3% and oh yea we just burned your armory so here's the only handgun we had left. You'll take the job tho rite? I mean its paying the same as all those missions you had above a 50% survival chance no big deal rite? Oh i forgot to mention all the contracts from here out will probably be just as bad so you wanna stick around?

In reality you'd quit.

Games can only push these boundaries so much before people quit this needs addressing. 

[_Heimdallr]

So what's the time frame for release: in the next week or so/ in the next one or two months?

[(XBOX)NeutralSilence]

2 minutes ago, Anubis_Heimdall said:

So what's the time frame for release: in the next week or so/ in the next one or two months?

I'd prefer the latter honestly. These  changes need way more time to be fleshed out. I think holding off on the changes and doing more Devstreams to show the progress  would be better than just releasing the changes, doing some tweaks, then leaving it for who knows how long.

[CHIEF-117]

hahaha its a nerf disguised as a buff you fools

[ChameleonDude]

Just going to chime in and mention Ember, like I'm sure many people have done. She's too good at low level missions, we know, but:

• Needing to keep World on Fire active to access the higher damage will kill her energy supply, as she's unable to gain energy from a lot of sources (due to channeling) and the increased energy cost. This is counter-intuitive.
• The higher damage won't work out worthwhile at high levels.
• Firequake will become useless at a shorter range or if used in bursts by toggling. This is a really handy form of crowd control and will be removed by the proposed rework.
• A new speedclear will be found for lower levels anyway, making these damaging changes redundant.

Ember needs love as it is. Losing range, energy economy and crowd control for a gain in potential damage is a nerf. Fireball, Accelerant and Fire Blast won't exactly carry her if World on Fire becomes unusable most of the time. Surely this would be a good time to give her some buffs, such as:

• Fireball having 100% heat  status chance against nearby enemies, as apposed to 50%.
• Fireball leaving a fire hazard on the floor, dealing damage and applying a heat proc.
• Accelerant having a slightly more potent crowd control effect.
• Accelerant buffing allies within range; perhaps giving them x% of their damage as bonus heat damage.
• Hitting/damaging/killing enemies affected by Accelerant restores an amount of energy to Ember, even while channeling World on Fire
• Reworking or even replacing Fire Blast. It's a mish-mash of its original form and an Arson Eximus' attack with poorly scaling, mediocre damage at best. While the knockback is nice, it doesn't really offer much as a third ability. This could be made into a strong, scaling area denial skill or something.
• Reworking her passive to be something useful.
• Reworking her passive to activate on something other than trying to commit suicide at higher levels.
• Reworking her passive to not rely on enemies hitting her.
• Reworking her passive to offer energy management based on heat damage/procs, something in theme with her playstyle.

I've posted a lot of similar suggestions for Ember over the years, so I thought I'd try once again. I don't particularly like that Ember's only role is blitzing through low level missions, so I'm not salty about the proposed change trying to change this; but sadly that's all she's good for in a lot of people's eyes. Since so many weapons and warframe are being reworked and improved... I'd just like to see my favourite warframe get a worthwhile buff, instead of one random change that solves one problem, but hurts any real playability of her lategame.

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)NeutralSilence said:

Yea I really don't think your getting my point. I never said Mag couldn't do any damage. As a matter of fact, her only niche is that she can do tons of damage (with the right weapon) in a certain area with Magnetize. Her Polarize needs to be effective now, not later. "Later" to DE  is different to "Later" to us.

Yes, we definitely disagree on this. I personally thing Mag is a good support frame, but her damage does not scale at all right now. I think these changes are going to make her a good frame, but only time will tell how good she will be. 

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

1 hour ago, Anubis_Heimdall said:

So what's the time frame for release: in the next week or so/ in the next one or two months?

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)NeutralSilence said:

I'd prefer the latter honestly. These  changes need way more time to be fleshed out. I think holding off on the changes and doing more Devstreams to show the progress  would be better than just releasing the changes, doing some tweaks, then leaving it for who knows how long.

I think they said within a week or two for PC and then they'll use the information they get from their community to fix any issues and or tweak damage models accordingly before finalizing and submitting for console cert. So I guess nothing is going to be final until the end of February for most frames, with a few exceptions probably stretching into March.  

 

[HankHuley]

I will react only on ember since i don't play the other frame.

 

So this is time to sell ember and play banshee...

Make ember use more energy for less range and only double damage it's a really bad idéa.

 

I don't play ember for killing everything,

But for an constant damage in aura effect all around me and put fire effect on them.

In high lvl make a little control 5 guy to the ground / sec, and i don't need to have high damage as along i can hit overtime, but yes if i can i put more power to optimise i do !

 

And finnaly i build to have an good damage output (around 1100 dmg) 210 % Power / 145 % range / 175% economy in sacrifice duration 63% and sacrifice life and shield and armor with augment world on steel, making a bet on my wrym prime to keep me alive with regen hp, repulse, sacrifice...

And i use 2nd spell for owerpowering all the fire damage i make for a really short duration since a sacrifice duration when really needed.

Not totaly optimised tought my primed continuity is not full... :D

 

-1rst spell is useless no utility in all builds / never use it

 

-2nd spell can be using for make build ont buffering other player with fire damage and x of fire damages with the augment, but here you don't use world on fire, cause you make the exact opposite build. But i use it when i need more damage at one moment.

.

-3rd spell i use it only when i revive somebody with 2nd while my world on fire is active for revive somedy. (that make an incrédible hell on the screen i love it)

 

But you can't make a build on 3rd and 1st spell... 3rd is not to bad but really to use in sitational.

 

The thing with % it's interesting i love the idéa, but if it's to halve the range and cost more energy it's a big NO for me !

It's already hard to manage to keep having energy overtime with all the enemy who resist fire or drain energy or disable you'r spell, or an intensive use of 2nd spell or 3rd spell in combo for compensate the lack of damage with a 210 % power modding and maxed economy efficacity !

 

And finnaly in high lvl mission you do quite a good amout of damage over time but you don't "kill" anything.

 

And what about her passive ?

Regen energy and more damage when you are on fire...(and lost life when you don't have much already... for what ? 5 sec 8 sec ?)  but they are no fire on the map or not much, so the passiv is useless/no activ 95% of the time.

 

What i recommand :

 

-Rework 1rst spell ?

no good idea here...

-Rework arcane helmet ?

+25 % énergie capacity... Ember don't care about the capacity but she care about the consomption of it, so why not an +25% efficacity (that can make us win a mod slot for more life or power or range or something else ?)

Rework the passiv ?

The only idéa i have here is : to make more damage more you'r énergie is high, why not an % of you'r energy bar ? or directly scaled on you'r energie capacity max ?, in this case have an build in full energie capacity can have a big sense and that make you to chase even more about energy since it's already in ember spirit ! And how you play her the majority of time.

In this case the arcane helmet don't need to be reworked and synergise with her new passiv, or why not, an alternative helmet ?

 

But all of this don't make less kill in lower lvl an obviously not more since youre still limited to 5 enemy / sec... the answer is probably here by down the number of target hit /sec... but if you do, up the damage !

 

Thanks for reading.

[skRose]

I can understand the ember change as I do believe it'll actually increase her dps in terms of later game scaling, however can you please revisit her poor passive? It's wasteful for how little one can make use of it.

[RazorCure]

They all look like good ideas!

I'd rather Gara and Vitrify got a mechanics change though. Having to jump straight up to actually make it work the best is just annoying, and given the roof height in many areas, impractical. Why can't it just expand outwards like so many other aoe Ultimates? Discharge for example.

I hope Zephr works better too. I got her to 30 on double xp weekend, and aside from Turbulance and Nado spam, the other two powers are clunky to use.

 

Also, given this quote from the Banshee text " Since sound waves can hit through walls," I can't help but wonder WHY any ultimate power can go through walls. In the same way Radial Jav needs line of sight, what was the reasoning behind letting huge aoe powers hit through walls? In a similar manner to World on Fire, Equinox does that with her slash proc power. If she was as easy to get as Ember, she wwill be filling that roll of Under lvl 30 killer.

 

[jiminatorx]

What I find most surprising is the amount of hatred a lot of people have for ember. that in an of itself is a pretty good indicator that the frames powers power need to be reworked.

 

[phoenix1992]

3 minutes ago, jiminatorx said:

What I find most surprising is the amount of hatred a lot of people have for ember. that in an of itself is a pretty good indicator that the frames powers power need to be reworked.

 

Yes, because the mob mentality is always a good thing, especially within vocal minorities.

Hey remember how everyone gloated that there is no way for US to ellect a semi sentient self propelling twinkie, yet it turned out that this was far from the case?

[(PSN)bombercomfort]

When do these changes go Live, I was expecting them with the patch a few hours ago.... any dates as yet?