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Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited


[DE]Connor
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I am glad that the Developers are reworking the Warframes listed to enable in-game performance and fun, but I have to object towards the changes for Ember's "World On Fire" ability.

[DE]Connor describes the changes are necessary to make Ember more balanced, although the Developers know that Warframe has poor defensive abilities altogether. There is no sense to cripple the ability that enables any sort of defense when the augment mod, "Firequake," is being used to knock down enemies within range. Diminishing the range over time and causing increase of energy cost is doing the opposite of keeping the Warframe "balanced."

My Recommendation: Allow all the energy increase accumulation loss to enable an over-shield to activate for Ember once "World On Fire" is disabled. 

[Enabling some sort of defensive measure will make the changes the Developers want for the Warframe to be "balanced" in the eyes of the players.]

Edited by xV3NOMx
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46 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Harbinger XK5 said:

Stop trying to ruin my warframes!!!!!!

 

if you don't like them then don't @(*()$ use them

 

Chill dude. I like Loki and Octavia, so I'm going to stick with using latter as I don't have the former. I'd rather see them unchanged as is and I don't want to "ruin" them. Read my later post below when you wake up.

34 minutes ago, POIKILO said:

True. My intention for quoting someone else's previous post was to show like hey, here are two very good Warframes consistently liked and used by the community in the game, they should be good examples of what DE should strive for, you get? Useful abilities, good synergy, useful at the majority of the game's content, etc. But I can easily see how DE would look at this and whip out the nerf hammer, ugh.

I agree the developers in charge of making up and confirming these """changes""" don't seem to play their own game. It's really unfair they get to head these decisions yet developers who talk to the community...I don't know, it's like they get disregarded too.

 

 

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I'm late so my post will probably go unnoticed. But on the off chance it does I want to weigh in. I expected a WoF nerf but I didn't expect a complete sledgehammer.

All this change is going to do as it sits right now is make it so everyone has to recast WoF every 10 seconds because having both penalties is simply too much. Which is more or less how Ember was before her 2015 rework made it channeled. What's the point of revisiting her if you're just going to undo 3 years of progress?

Either increase the energy cost or reduce the radius, having both is overkill. Just having one is enough to discourage leaving it on for an extended period of time. You say you want to increase her viability in high level play by increasing the damage, but how is reducing both of your means of dishing out that damage conductive to that? Not to mention - Ember's high level niche already was using Firequake to stunlock enemies. Halving her range is going to remove that completely, which also hurts her survivability in high level play. You're going to get instakilled by enemies outside the radius before you get the chance to get them in range.

There are two options that I think would be fair and both involve removing one half of the nerf. If you want the energy reduction, remove the radius reduction. This means that players will have an equal exchange of more energy for more damage, while still having to think about how long they leave WoF on for. If you want the radius reduction, remove the energy reduction, but increase her survivability so running closer to high level enemies is an option (maybe the percentage also increases health/armor?). This means that players now have the option of trading off range for more damage and the survivability to deal that damage in higher levels, while still stopping players from killing through walls after 10 seconds.

Edited by Fireshock
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2 hours ago, POIKILO said:

True. My intention for quoting someone else's previous post was to show like hey, here are two very good Warframes consistently liked and used by the community in the game, they should be good examples of what DE should strive for, you get? Useful abilities, good synergy, useful at the majority of the game's content, etc. But I can easily see how DE would look at this and whip out the nerf hammer, ugh.

I agree the developers in charge of making up and confirming these """changes""" don't seem to play their own game. It's really unfair they get to head these decisions yet developers who talk to the community...I don't know, it's like they get disregarded too.

True. Sorry for the late reply, I was busy. I agree to what you mean though. Frames like Nidus are perfectly designed frames. They need to make more that have such synergy and upscaling power. Harrow is another example. None of his abilities do direct damage, but they make him a very good frame. Perfectly designed in my opinion. Same for Ivara and others. 

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1 hour ago, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

and nerfing Chroma won't solve anything it will just turn players to other frames that can solo Teralysts just as fast. Then what? They'll get nerfed too? 

It's not a nerf, technically. It's a fix. Of a "less than ideal calculations" problem. That was taken as intended feature and used for the duration. Close to permanent 99% damage reduction is ludicrous. Just as much as high level's DR is. It's a broken feature that justifies maintaining it on both sides of the conflict.

Let's put it another way, if at salary you get 5 times more money than you have writen in your contract, it's great. It also means the accountant didn't bother to check if it's a problem there. But then, you start getting your normal, due pay. Are you going to complain about having a salary cut, by showing how little you can now buy with it? Even more so, looking at the posts following you, demanding people to be punished for fixing the extra money you received for 3 years.

1 hour ago, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

Honestly....I agree. Whoever is in that "balancing" department......please...stop with the unnecessary nerfs. I appreciate the weapon buffs....but stop trying to gut a frame that needs a stronger 1, 4, and ability to SWITCH ELEMENTS.

"Give more powah, but leave our buffs alone!" 'Cause that's not gonna break your fun, just the game a bit more - with the potential to lead to more drastic buffs for high level enemies to compensate some warframes' godliness.

You guys are cherry picking examples (when it comes to other frames), using whatever fits your theme best (either percentages or numbers) but with a rather blatant disregard for the overall end-result, as long as you get to keep the thing that made Chroma special - the fact that his ability equation was unique.

I agree that the ability could have bigger range for the EW (double), so that it will be beneficial for the times where you just can't afford to pile on top of each other.

And Vex Armor could be an aura too (with EW's current range). It wouldn't break the game, 'cause, like everyone says, after the "nerf" it will be weak as a turd - might as well share it with your fellow tennos, kinda like how Valkyr does. But needing to be always in your vicinity for the buffs to be applied. Because DE is responsible for the players getting to consider Chroma's skills normal - and building a "way of life" around them - by delaying the fix for quite a bit, they could... compensate by offering a lil extra along with the fix.

'Cause it is a fix, not a nerf. If you can shoot people with ballista and clone them as allies instead of making them neutral ghosts - that's a bug. If this bug ain't fixed for 3 years, when the miracle happens, the result will still be a fix, not a nerf (regardless of how used people got to having their own private armies).

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1 hour ago, Himenoinu said:

It's not a nerf, technically. It's a fix. Of a "less than ideal calculations" problem. That was taken as intended feature and used for the duration. Close to permanent 99% damage reduction is ludicrous. Just as much as high level's DR is. It's a broken feature that justifies maintaining it on both sides of the conflict.

Let's put it another way, if at salary you get 5 times more money than you have writen in your contract, it's great. It also means the accountant didn't bother to check if it's a problem there. But then, you start getting your normal, due pay. Are you going to complain about having a salary cut, by showing how little you can now buy with it? Even more so, looking at the posts following you, demanding people to be punished for fixing the extra money you received for 3 years.

"Give more powah, but leave our buffs alone!" 'Cause that's not gonna break your fun, just the game a bit more - with the potential to lead to more drastic buffs for high level enemies to compensate some warframes' godliness.

You guys are cherry picking examples (when it comes to other frames), using whatever fits your theme best (either percentages or numbers) but with a rather blatant disregard for the overall end-result, as long as you get to keep the thing that made Chroma special - the fact that his ability equation was unique.

I agree that the ability could have bigger range for the EW (double), so that it will be beneficial for the times where you just can't afford to pile on top of each other.

And Vex Armor could be an aura too (with EW's current range). It wouldn't break the game, 'cause, like everyone says, after the "nerf" it will be weak as a turd - might as well share it with your fellow tennos, kinda like how Valkyr does. But needing to be always in your vicinity for the buffs to be applied. Because DE is responsible for the players getting to consider Chroma's skills normal - and building a "way of life" around them - by delaying the fix for quite a bit, they could... compensate by offering a lil extra along with the fix.

'Cause it is a fix, not a nerf. If you can shoot people with ballista and clone them as allies instead of making them neutral ghosts - that's a bug. If this bug ain't fixed for 3 years, when the miracle happens, the result will still be a fix, not a nerf (regardless of how used people got to having their own private armies).

Yea um, you can be as technically correct or supportive of "balancing" as you want to be, but when you leave a frame with only 2 good abilities and one to compensate for what's missing for 3 YEARS straight and the first thing you do is NERF what compensated for WHAT HE LACKS without any actually useful buffs in return, that's now breaking the balance back out of shape. Plus you should tell what you said the majority of the community. I'm pretty sure many players would disagree with your opinion on this "fix." The ones who support you either don't give a damn about Chroma or use something that is powerful besides Chroma in a way that satisfies them....so they can care less about Chroma. Or, maybe they somehow can cope with the nerf. I don't know how, but I'm pretty sure most would rather him be left alone. Now if his 1 and 4 were completely amazing, I wouldn't even be that disappointed or irritated about the "fix"....yes I'll still be irritated, but not nearly as much. If Chroma was how they want him now in the first place instead of leaving him "broken" for 3 years then I wouldn't even be mad. Why? Because it would've been like this in the first place and no feeling of a nerf would exist for something that was never there for a legit amount of time in the first place.

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5 minutes ago, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

Yea um, you can be as technically correct or supportive of "balancing" as you want to be, but when you leave a frame with only 2 good abilities and one to compensate for what's missing for 3 YEARS straight and the first thing you do is NERF what compensated for WHAT HE LACKS without any actually useful buffs in return, that's now breaking the balance back out of shape. Plus you should tell what you said the majority of the community. I'm pretty sure many players would disagree with your opinion on this "fix." The ones who support you either don't give a damn about Chroma or use something that is powerful besides Chroma in a way that satisfies them....so they can care less about Chroma. Or, maybe they somehow can cope with the nerf. I don't know how, but I'm pretty sure most would rather him be left alone. Now if his 1 and 4 were completely amazing, I wouldn't even be that disappointed or irritated about the "fix"....yes I'll still be irritated, but not nearly as much. If Chroma was how they want him now in the first place instead of leaving him "broken" for 3 years then I wouldn't even be mad. Why? Because it would've been like this in the first place and no feeling of a nerf would exist for something that was never there for a legit amount of time in the first place.

I main Chroma and I'm absolutely agree with you! WITHOUT a proper fix with his 1 and 4 ability which a replacement for his VEX ARMOR, I'll be very disappointed with it. They should see that his vex armor is the only thing that keeps him alive and catching up with every frame. They should buff his 1 and 4 DRASTICALLY! An aura on vex armor is not enough since Chroma was build to be a solo frame. They should put a tons of HP on their Teralyst since a good build of Oberon/Trinity with an OP gun can solo and run a Teralyst.

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1 hour ago, Dequire said:

So, is the workshop/dev team actually going to listen to the mass of feedback here, or are you guys going to wait until some of these changes explode in your face? ...Because there's a lot of notes about Banshee and Ember here, but I notice that the OP still hasn't changed.

Well sense apparently these changes are getting released this week....I'm just gonna prepare for the worst-case scenario. 

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5 minutes ago, Kirriel said:

I main Chroma and I'm absolutely agree with you! WITHOUT a proper fix with his 1 and 4 ability which a replacement for his VEX ARMOR, I'll be very disappointed with it. They should see that his vex armor is the only thing that keeps him alive and catching up with every frame. They should buff his 1 and 4 DRASTICALLY! An aura on vex armor is not enough since Chroma was build to be a solo frame. They should put a tons of HP on their Teralyst since a good build of Oberon/Trinity with an OP gun can solo and run a Teralyst.

you can solo teralyst easily with any frame, frames literally arent important if you have good amp and correct weapons used, frames just stand there holding a spot, keep seeing people like you stating oberon/trinity lol, you dont need either, keeping lures alive is a matter of paying attention not healing them, never have issues keeping them alive, have more issues with trinitys that use abilitys at incorrect times, you can literally kill teralyst using any frame in same amount of time as solo with either trinity or oberon, just have a decent setup

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On 2/2/2018 at 5:58 PM, Archwizard said:

Let me be clear here: this Bladestorm adjustment is just a quality of life change. While the change is appreciated, Ash's kit is far from "fixed." 
Shuriken and Bladestorm each deal a flat amount of direct damage - Finisher damage to be sure, but even Bladestorm will be overshadowed at high levels by Teleport. His kit lacks cohesion, since Shuriken has no practical place in it (nor situational use where Bladestorm can't overshadow it), and the cutscene nature of Bladestorm means it can only tangentially interact with his other skills (ie affecting its cost and uptime).
He's supposed to offer the best offensive kit of the Invisible frames, but Ivara is ultimately more suited for that distinction (between her Exalted weapon, damage boosts, and shared ability to induce melee Finishers... to multiple enemies per cast). I'd be willing to say the sheer simplicity of his kit (in terms of the near lack of interaction between his skills, and only real ceiling to using his ultimate) would make him an ideal Starter frame.

Wanted to add a little more feedback to the Ash discussion.

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1 hour ago, Kirriel said:

I main Chroma and I'm absolutely agree with you! WITHOUT a proper fix with his 1 and 4 ability which a replacement for his VEX ARMOR, I'll be very disappointed with it. They should see that his vex armor is the only thing that keeps him alive and catching up with every frame. They should buff his 1 and 4 DRASTICALLY! An aura on vex armor is not enough since Chroma was build to be a solo frame. They should put a tons of HP on their Teralyst since a good build of Oberon/Trinity with an OP gun can solo and run a Teralyst.

EXACTLY! See, this exactly what I was saying. I really appreciate your support and reply to what I said. I kept telling the other guy what Chroma mains would say....and I agree with all of you. I love Chroma. He's not my top, top main but he IS one of my top favorite frames in the entire game. When I want to eradicate something for good, I pick Chroma. Because it takes a lot of forma to build him up and eventually you got one top notch dragon. I 100% agree with you man, we all need to unite and tell DE that nerfing Vex Armor is wrong! 

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I mostly use Ember for crowd control, so WoF radius nerf is a bit too much. I think it's better to leave the range mostly  intact, but make damage decrease over time ("burn out"). And to make some synergies, make heat from other abilities "fuel" that fire, increasing damage output. Thus Ember can play more active role, constantly using abilities. This is also counts as energy consumption increase without any "artificial" changes. 

Edited by d3me
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1 hour ago, Kirriel said:

They should put a tons of HP on their Teralyst since a good build of Oberon/Trinity with an OP gun can solo and run a Teralyst.

Right. Because that will fix stuff: Leave Chroma as it is and if you don't wanna play him vs Teralysts, use 2 warframes and an OP gun to compensate or gtfo. So much for the balance you cry Chroma's gonna miss. Also, if one warframe can brave the world, then the world has to be tougher, which can potentially lead to another feckupery with mobs scaling.

And seeing what some people post - in the line of "leave 2 and 3 the same and just buff 1 and 4" - it's pretty awkward to think anyone is not emotional in the replies. You want a frame that can solo any content, solo teralysts. Everyone else should just buckle up and work together :D But what's gonna happen when Chroma joins the plebs?

Anyway, Vex Armor should definitely become what it was supposed to be. No preferential calculations about how one frame applies its armor buff skill (on top of it being also a massive damage buff one). Drop the Effigy with a 30m radius of cold/fire/lightning or toxin, not just breathe weapon. Have toxin replenish Chroma's health based on the number of affected targets, while the other 3 can all work as CCs. But here's the thing: I'm pretty sure people will still want VA left alone no matter how much different versions of SS and Effigy improve his frail frame's chances of survival.

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while its is all nice and good (or not)...

why is there no Vauban on that list?

the one frame that is broken for YEARS? I mean...Bastille still doesnt work correctly, wouldnt it be about time to change it from an Animation-CC into a Stasis-CC (like frosts freeze, limbos stasis, garas glassing, mags magnets...)? It breaks hitboxes and there are enough enemies now that can "cancel" the stasis-animation to break it.

What about Minelayer? A totally needless ability that could have been a rework for his other abilities?
Add Concuss to his Tesla like it was shown in his Prime-Trailer (there Tesla was a flashbang)
Add Tripwire to Tesla Link so that the Augment has a use again
Replace Bounce with Shred
No need for this useless "Ivara wheel" that doesnt fit his flow.

 

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Hrrrmmm. Time for a periodic restatement!

 

I support the idea of changing Ember’s kit to remove her wide area kill-hogging. That’s cool. You guys should definitely do that.

However, your proposed changes (as they have been presented thus far, in the effective nerf to World On Fire and the charge-up gimmick for Fireball) will not succeed in transforming Ember’s kit into a highly mobile short-range DPS monster. She’ll be a glass cannon with no actual cannon.

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5 minutes ago, DKKenny said:

So yeah... all these balances/buffs/nerfs/reworks are all nice but uh....
What about: Maiming Strike aka the thing that removes all the grind and effort from the game/makes any changes you make to other weapons and things completely pointless? (But hey at least I finished up all those annoying focus trees thanks to that.)

You don't want to throw hay on this Chroma/Ember wildfire. The amount of flak DE would receive for trying to balance yet another rather hilarious play mechanic would be of biblic proportions. Come to think of it, just defining macro usage as "illegal" would be enough :D And if you think about it, there's still a little difference between that and Ember's WoF when it comes to the amount of interaction the player has with the game. 1 button push :D And since Ember has 0 interaction with skills or weapons after turning on WoF, anyone using one extra button to deal damage has - mathematically - close to infinitely more interaction :D

However, the range of a not-thrown melee weapon being bigger than of fire arms and abilities is... puzzling ;D

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Le 2/2/2018 à 20:03, [DE]Connor a dit :

ATLAS

Rubble (new mechanic) - Comes from killing petrified enemies. Atlas collects rubble to restore his health, or temporarily increase armor if already at max health.

I am sure it's late, and I don't know if someone said it, so sorry if said before.

I was watching atlas new petrify and in there I saw rumblers. And I saw that you cover yourself in rocks in the animations. Then I saw that rubble also covers yourself in rocks. So I thought, what if the rubble was also a consumable that helps with the other abilities? For example, If rubble stacks are given to rumblers they gain more time and damage or gain more impact status, so they can stagger. This way, it would be more dynamic and search for the middle of the battle to give rumblers stacks and petrify enemies to get back the stacks in the same ability. Or give more damage and range to the wall, and more damage to the punch(1stack by a punch, so you can get it back if you punch a petrify enemy and also happens when max stacks, so you can build up). 

I think it would be a nice change, as it would impact all kit and the way to play, to one more aggressive, as you need the stacks. 

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