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You have completely killed Ember Prime...... no worth using in my opinion so thank you for ruining the game!  It has taken me hours to farm and then Forma.  The World on Fire ability is now useless and might as well be called Feet on Fire!  If other people are jealous then they should bloody well spend the time and hours farming it like the rest of us have.  Not at all happy.  Dont kill this game like Bungie have done with Destiny 2

On 2/27/2018 at 1:22 AM, BornWithTeeth said:

Mate, the joke is that the Ember changes didn't even succeed at their intended goal. If you want to pull low level stomp Ember, you just slot in an Overextended, and make sure your power strength doesn't fall too far and bam, annoying kill hog Ember still works just fine.

 

The rework completely failed to affect the targeted behaviour at low levels, and instead nerfed Ember at high levels.

Well they have successfully killed Ember this time it is now more than useless

On 2/8/2018 at 8:57 AM, Duffy1 said:

As someone who mains Ember, I'm not sure how I feel about the change, I use ember in very high levels, as a superior, close proximity CC. Standard range with the Fire Quake allows ember to survive with my weapons doing the damage, knocking down enemies as you get near with WoF, with the fire status also doing CC, the use of Accelerant to stun larger groups. Ember gets very little kills, Survival-ability is relied on the CC and fast movements and kills with melee and medium to long range weapons. I know of no one who uses Ember like this, but that is how I feel she should be used, an unseen potential, so much CC potential, overlooked. With this change, it will definitely allow her to scale in high levels... as a wipe out frame. However, despite my concerns I do think you are heading in the right direction.

Have you tried it?  I have just run three high level missions and it is more than useless

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So having finally played with and observed the changes to Ember, the weapons, Banshee, and Ash, I can provide proper feedback! (Huzzah console Tenno!) 

-Ember: All of her first 3 powers are in a really great place right now. Her Fireball is greatly improved with the new charge mechanic. Accelerant still works well, especially with the augment! Fire Blast is great with the new added bonus of Heat damage applying to weapons fired within the circle of flames! 

World on Fire is... okay? The range and the "burning hotter" double energy consumption rate work, but ugh... Survivability is down because this power was designed to be activated and left on, not turned on and literally burned away! 

I like that she must now stay active and move around as the range decreases, but it destroys her ability to CC effectively. In addition, Ember now burns through lower levels even faster than before! After reading what the devs wanted to do with her, she doesn't fit in her role of allowing other Tenno to get kills in lower levels and burning up enemies up to 30. 

She is too squishy without her pre-2018 range on WoF. She could be used previously in high level (60+) content because of her WoF augment providing CC. Now she is very quickly downed by anything slightly out of range. 

Something else has to be done about WoF! Maybe nerf WoF damage, but revert to her old range? In addition maybe have a feature on WoF that when held down, makes Ember stationary, increases damage over time, and quickly burns through her energy? 

The way this would work is that you would still have WoF going and working as in pre-2018 and Fire-status-ing targets, but with reduced damage, giving teammates the chance to get kills as well. When WoF is held down damage, range, and energy consumption drastically increase. The downside is that she is now stationary, and her energy is very quickly burned through. 

This would give players the ability to effectively CC with Ember again and provide players the extra oomph during battle at a cost. 

 

Now that Ember is out of the way I'll talk about the weapon buffs and mention a few I like personally, then on to Ash and Banshee! 

Weapons: 

Tiberon: great improvement with the critical chance and damage increases! Before it couldn't compete with other rifles because after a certain level it became useless. 

Burston (Prime): I really like the new changes in critical chance and damage as well. It still underperforms other rifles though. 

Boltor: Great improvements overall as well, but the Telos Boltor is the rifle king! Critical chance and damage and excellent weapon damage overall has it possibly outperforming the Prime version as well as the Soma... 

 

Banshee: Her #4 is very much... more interactive? Knocking enemies down and dealing a high amount of damage is great, but something is off. I now see people spamming her #4 over and over which has increased the amount of button presses at the expensive of the same amount of brain cells as before! 

Make Sound Quake more interactive by reverting it back to pre-2018, but with a few tweaks.  Make it stagger enemies as it did before, but allow them to recover and move albeit slowly until staggering again. The damage also should be alsoonly able to damage enemies in the direction the player pushes the stick. 

This would make Banshee an effective CC, squad mate, and increase interactivity by make no players pay attention to how they use her #4 instead of spamming it as they do now. 

Ash: short and sweet and to the point. The Blade Storm change in which Ash is able to remain independent from his damage-dealing clones really lets you continue to focus on the battle as opposed to being chained into a Blade Storm sequence in which your allies may or may not kill off the enemies before Blade Storm is finished. Good addition! 

Some of my thoughts I haven't tried the other reworks like Chroma and Zephyr, but hopefully I'll have the time to soon! 

 

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Just wanted to let you know one of the issue I can see from the Ember changes. Given the cost per second has gone up, I find my self holding on to WOF until I pick up the focus thingy. This is to maximize my focus gain (and works well), but the unintended side effect is a lot of frowns by the other Tenno. It seems there's more people mad at then usual because of this tactic, which leads to think this might have made things a bit worst. I don't mind the change, but I felt like sharing. 

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Im going to be honest.  I quit the game over a year ago because of the disgusting nerf to Carrier and Carrier prime.  I just got back in tonight and low and behold just in time to find out you are going to completely nerf ember and make her utterly useless.  A better way to do her change would have been to half the damage of world on fire and leave the rest alone.  Halving it but still allowing her range and what not gives other players the ability to get shots or abilities or melee off before every thing dies after the first 5 rounds or minutes.  But to essentially make it so she can only use her ability for about 20 seconds before she gets her face smashed in is .... well I honestly cant find the words to describe the lack of thought or effort put into this.  I was hoping to come back for an extended time but once again you drive to get people to come back or join up from scratch is met with your poor decisions causing the player base you have to walk away.   Great game, great optimization, great visuals.   Love the non malicious way you implemented micro transactions.   Love the community presence and public interaction.  Hate the "what the actual eff" decisions that get made.  Good luck, you guys are way better than the rest of the competition and hope you can pull this thing back together and keep trucking, but I cant support lazy round robin of who's getting screwed this time.

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16 hours ago, Oran_Shinn said:

Im going to be honest.  I quit the game over a year ago because of the disgusting nerf to Carrier and Carrier prime.  I just got back in tonight and low and behold just in time to find out you are going to completely nerf ember and make her utterly useless.  A better way to do her change would have been to half the damage of world on fire and leave the rest alone.  Halving it but still allowing her range and what not gives other players the ability to get shots or abilities or melee off before every thing dies after the first 5 rounds or minutes.  But to essentially make it so she can only use her ability for about 20 seconds before she gets her face smashed in is .... well I honestly cant find the words to describe the lack of thought or effort put into this.  I was hoping to come back for an extended time but once again you drive to get people to come back or join up from scratch is met with your poor decisions causing the player base you have to walk away.   Great game, great optimization, great visuals.   Love the non malicious way you implemented micro transactions.   Love the community presence and public interaction.  Hate the "what the actual eff" decisions that get made.  Good luck, you guys are way better than the rest of the competition and hope you can pull this thing back together and keep trucking, but I cant support lazy round robin of who's getting screwed this time.

The nerf where *every* sentinel got Vacuum? If that's all it took to make you leave, don't let the door hit you on the way back out.

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so I tried Ember in a mission because I honestly havn't found a need to use her for in, well, months. Annnnd... lvl 38 mission extermination, everything seemed the same with WoF o`o   Maybe it's because I'm not stress testing my Ember, but... I played her with a short range and active turning 4 on/off before anyway. I rated her up to lvl50 for passive killing and she seems to be doing great near lvl40 grineer, maybe I'm missing something though, but I can't tell what. Then again I'm prob the odd one out given I loved Valk's rework and the whole community went ballistic at how 'trash she was without forever invincibility' XD

   However.
While I like the idea of Ember being able to lower range in place of power, this is giving her the ability to shotgun higher mobs with WoF, a power solely meant for wide area CC. If I want to shotgun people with a power, I'll use said Valk. I'm all for finding a way to increase my Ember's dps, but I'll rely on 2 & 3 for it, I don't think I need a forced range curve for it to happen.  I get people afk Ember and don't try with her and such, but lets be honest here, this game has a lot of farming, and a lot of time said farming is boring as Hek. I'd rather breeze my way through a low level mission with WoF than take 3x longer shooting everything behind a Rhino or Gara. I mean don't get me wrong, I love jumping into a mission with one of my fav frames and just tearing all my enemies asunder while laughing maniacally at how merciless they are XD But after you do it for the 10th time in a row, another 20 min poly farm, another cryo run, another hunt for something tedious and boring and ugh. Burn it, please just burn everything. I don't play Ember for kill competitions, I don't play Ember because lolz afk wof op af, and I don't play Ember for, well, any boss. I play Ember because she is a frame very specifically dedicated for very great lower level CC, and as such, I use her ability for this to further my goals like you would use a impact inplace of a breaker bar to save time and effort. All frames are a tool, geared for different things. I've had idiots over torque stuff on my car w/ impacts, but you don't go and outlaw them or make them all underpowered, people are always going to miss use things, it's the nature of humans. I play Ember for fun, I play Ember when I feel like she fits best at a situation, I play Ember because Chroma just doesn't burninate enough for me. Please, don't hurt my Ember because others missuse her, let her go wild and burn the world down for as far as she wants.

I'll tell you what, if people like afk'ing with Ember and that's the huge issue, then lets take a page from Nezha. Have Ember build up WoF dmg from her movements, and dissipate when she stands still, after all if you ever get a burning rage within you, you don't just stand still and act like a statue, you go nuts, like a kid who just ate all his Halloween candy AND stole the rest of your coffee! Bullet jumping, sliding, shooting, slash n dash kills with sexy Galatine, let it all add to the fire!

If the issue is her being able to kill steal for lower level Tenno, well... hate to say it, but I can kinda map sweep low level Tenno stuff with other frames, just with a slight bit more effort. even with just weapons, it's not hard. Maybe I'm missing the issue, but I'm sure when I start playing with Ember again, I'll miss her range more, after all I already keep it short. o`o

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you're going to take away Ember's range you should revert the AOE Range nerf.

I don't see any Equinox changes when people abuse the wf on Hydron?

Especially when you consider that people w/ Atterax slide attacking will outdamage and outkill an Ember 10/10 times.

Edited by 6thBlackWing
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I’m using Ember a lot and the changes are noticeable but won’t make me use her less. I don’t use banshee and chroma that much so the fixes aren’t so important to me!

but this is a great game and it’s great how they keep making a free game interesting to play. With the constant updates and nerf/fixes. At least they care for what they do!

Edited by (PS4)awosniak66
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  • 2 weeks later...

So, I said I'd do a follow up on my thoughts with the rest of the "recent" changes to the Warframes. I finally had time to take a look and give feedback. 

1. Chroma: He is better now at having an all around kit. He buffs the team better, which isn't saying much because he didn't buff the team very well to begin with. Recasting his armor and keeping the buffs is a nice touch, but he doesn't have the oomph he used to. His #1 is still trashy, but works really well with the damage increase from Vex Armor. The better activation and movement changes were nice, but no one uses it much for those changes to really be a great benefit! This rework still needs some tweaking to make it just right, though. 

Suggestions... Increase the damage on his #1, but make it stay at the same damage values it is now while Vex Armor is active. That way it is able to be used by itself and also work well with Vex Armor's damage boost. 

His #2 is okay, but something is missing, I'm not a Chroma main so I'll leave this to the Chroma experts. It just needs to be stronger perhaps? 

His #3 is good and is probably where it should be, even with the reduction in damage potential. 

His #4 is fine, but should have some kind of synergy with his #2. Fire heals the pelt, toxin increases the rate of damage, electricity gives shields like a shield osprey, and ice gives the pelt more armor. Something along these lines... 

Banshee: I talked about Banshee before, but I need to again! For the love of the Lotus, the change in her #4 has turned AFK-ers into spam-bots. I wish the devs would look into a creative solution I mentioned years ago! 

Revert her #4 to how it was pre-rework, but make the power interactive. As she is stationary the power reverberates the ground causing enemies to be staggered. While that power is active push the movement stick to aim a deadly cone of sound in a given direction. Also let enemies who have been marked with Sonar take more damage from her #4. 

Players would be made to be actively involved in using her Sound Quake to CC and damage enemies. She would have to deactivate her #4 and use Sonar to get the full benefit. When you have to know how to use your Warframe and actively use powers you'll be more involved and part of the team as a opposed to being a point of contention! 

Zephyr: I really like the rework, the changes made to her powers weren't drastic, and they actually made her able to be much more useful. Basically, she no longer feels clunky, she still is a semi-flightless bird, but now she is able to CC and damage enemies instead of just CC-ing and occasionally just making things frustrating for other players.

The combining of her #2 and #1 was long overdue! The hover effect is a nice touch, even if it isn't super useful. Her new #3 actually adds an effect that was long needed as well, the ability to push enemies close to her away! It's ability to be used to blast enemies farther away is very effective as well. The ability is also nice because you can supercharge your tornadoes too! I feel that Zephyr is in a good place right now. Good job, DE! 

Ember: Again I have to say something about Ember because the range decrease on World on Fire really hurt her. I'm still hoping DE addresses this issue at some point in the future. 

Thanks for reading, Tenno! 

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DE will just ignore us. They will not put ember back in shape she was before. They destroy most of beautiful and balanced warframe and still think they did good.
In their video they speak about "selling power",  about balance warframe and in same moment they cut off this balanced warframe. Ember was good and, very balanced. And now its just peace of s.it. You cant play with party with her, because she cant help other people. She cant solo either. So they killed her. I play this game 4 years. I still played because of ember. And now what? I dont wanna try play another warframe what they try show us like good one.:sadcry: Im so sad about it. :heartbroken:

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On 3/28/2018 at 5:05 AM, 6thBlackWing said:

I don't see any Equinox changes when people abuse the wf on Hydron?

This. Maim modded for range and strength is every bit a problem as  SQ / RQ and pre-nerf WoF as it can easily reach and kill enemies before other players can even see them and reduce said players to spectators or fighting over leftovers.

And for all you Equinox fans out there that are going to say "what's the problem? just leech XP off us or git gud"... 1. you can't get XP if a player kills enemies outside affinity radius and 2. it's very difficult to compete against an AoE ability with long range that doesn't need LOS to kill enemies...unless you spam a similar ability. Then it becomes a contest of who can grab the most kills with the most stupidly powerful ability build with everyone else being bored to tears.

In the interests of fairness, Saryn's Spores also deserve a look - namely at DoT. In a confined area like Hydron, she can easily clear out enemies with the right build. Yes, I happen to really like Saryn and yes I think her spores are a bit too good.

On 3/28/2018 at 5:05 AM, 6thBlackWing said:

Especially when you consider that people w/ Atterax slide attacking will outdamage and outkill an Ember 10/10 times.

If I recall correctly, melee attacks are being looked at by the devs, in particular the ease at which slide/spin attacks can be spammed. And yes that needs to be addressed.

4 minutes ago, margo1989 said:

They will not put ember back in shape she was before.

I sincerely hope not. She was OP and co-op unfriendly back then and basically a one-trick pony. What they SHOULD do at the very least is tweak WoF to give her a defensive bonus while the ability is active - with the bonus being that any and all enemies trying to fire on Ember receive a 50% accuracy penalty to do so.

 

3 hours ago, (XB1)ZenithLord 42 said:

For the love of the Lotus, the change in her #4 has turned AFK-ers into spam-bots.

Glad it's not just me that's seeing this with RQ / SQ these days. +1

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I wish the devs would take a look at a few of my suggestions about Ember I made awhile back, in this thread. They are pretty busy with all the new content that is coming soon, though. I just hope they don't leave Ember with the range reduction on her WoF. 

Also, don't want to say anything, but I didn't talk about the changes to Volt. 

Volt: Great improvement with the damage cap removed on his passive because it didn't seem to really help much before. Now you can actually take advantage of his speed to get that charge up and actually make a difference. The drain per meter on his shield was also long overdue! 

The one thing I still wish Volt had in his kit is something like the ability to apply electrical status to weapons. Maybe give him a chance, after using a power or after his passive is charged sufficiently, to apply electric status to his weapons for either a flat 5 seconds or based on how much damage was charged on his passive. 

It isn't really needed as his shield already can do this, but I think it would put the finishing touch on Volt as a whole. 

I also have to add something about Oberon. 

Oberon: Ever since his rework last year he has been in a good place, but his builds either focuses on one power exclusively or all of his powers. I main Oberon, Nekros, Excalibur, and Ash. After spending extensive time with Oberon, he still is missing something and I finally put my finger on it. 

He needs a few seconds more on his Hallowed Ground. At least a base duration that cannot go below 15 seconds. If you want more power strength and better energy economy with Oberon you usually equip a Rage mod and two or three strength mods to go along with his healing ability. It really takes up a lot of space and his duration really takes a hit.

If you are wanting more duration to take full advantage of his Hallowed Ground and and renewal you're stuck with very few options besides using Narrow Minded and a range mod. You don't dare to use Overextended though because of the terrible power strength loss! This combination of having to use so many mods hurts Oberon specifically, because as an all-round healer, support, and attack frame he needs each one to work well. 

Suggestions are again, to make his duration unable to drop below 15 seconds on Hallowed Ground or for him to have an added charge feature similar to Gara's Mass Vitrify. You could fire it off normally or hold the power down to unleash waves of radiation that expands the AoE of Hallowed Ground. 

As Oneron stands now, he's almost there, but his build is hampered by too many trade offs between each power. The trade offs are there in other Frames because of the mods, but their functioning isn't really negatively affected because they make up with it by having a more focused kit. Oberon, as mentioned earlier, is entirely different because of all the roles he can fill. 

Again, thanks for reading, Tenno! 

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19 minutes ago, (XB1)ZenithLord 42 said:

I wish the devs would take a look at a few of my suggestions about Ember I made awhile back, in this thread. They are pretty busy with all the new content that is coming soon, though. I just hope they don't leave Ember with the range reduction on her WoF. 

Also, don't want to say anything, but I didn't talk about the changes to Volt. 

Volt: Great improvement with the damage cap removed on his passive because it didn't seem to really help much before. Now you can actually take advantage of his speed to get that charge up and actually make a difference. The drain per meter on his shield was also long overdue! 

The one thing I still wish Volt had in his kit is something like the ability to apply electrical status to weapons. Maybe give him a chance, after using a power or after his passive is charged sufficiently, to apply electric status to his weapons for either a flat 5 seconds or based on how much damage was charged on his passive. 

It isn't really needed as his shield already can do this, but I think it would put the finishing touch on Volt as a whole. 

I also have to add something about Oberon. 

Oberon: Ever since his rework last year he has been in a good place, but his builds either focuses on one power exclusively or all of his powers. I main Oberon, Nekros, Excalibur, and Ash. After spending extensive time with Oberon, he still is missing something and I finally put my finger on it. 

He needs a few seconds more on his Hallowed Ground. At least a base duration that cannot go below 15 seconds. If you want more power strength and better energy economy with Oberon you usually equip a Rage mod and two or three strength mods to go along with his healing ability. It really takes up a lot of space and his duration really takes a hit.

If you are wanting more duration to take full advantage of his Hallowed Ground and and renewal you're stuck with very few options besides using Narrow Minded and a range mod. You don't dare to use Overextended though because of the terrible power strength loss! This combination of having to use so many mods hurts Oberon specifically, because as an all-round healer, support, and attack frame he needs each one to work well. 

Suggestions are again, to make his duration unable to drop below 15 seconds on Hallowed Ground or for him to have an added charge feature similar to Gara's Mass Vitrify. You could fire it off normally or hold the power down to unleash waves of radiation that expands the AoE of Hallowed Ground. 

As Oneron stands now, he's almost there, but his build is hampered by too many trade offs between each power. The trade offs are there in other Frames because of the mods, but their functioning isn't really negatively affected because they make up with it by having a more focused kit. Oberon, as mentioned earlier, is entirely different because of all the roles he can fill. 

Again, thanks for reading, Tenno! 

Doesn't Volts passive already give him a chance to proc eletric along with his shield? Still I wish his passive was a little more reliable and only activated on target hit instead of as soon as you fire. And his shield still has that sprint speed halfing which I think needs to go.

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6 hours ago, (XB1)ZenithLord 42 said:

As Oneron stands now, he's almost there, but his build is hampered by too many trade offs between each power.

He's also needlessly hampered anytime a Nekros decides to cast SoTD anywhere near where Oberon happened to cast Renewal. 

Renewal should NOT affect Shadows - not when 1. Healing them via Renewal is pointless due to the rate at which their health decasy and 2. the fact that Nekros is intended to be able to heal existing Shadows by recasting SoTD ANYWAY.

Right now Shadows being healed by Renewal serves no other purpose than to rapidly drain Oberon's energy pool and make it very difficult to keep the rest of the party healed and buffed AND cast his other abilities.

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17 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

He's also needlessly hampered anytime a Nekros decides to cast SoTD anywhere near where Oberon happened to cast Renewal. 

Renewal should NOT affect Shadows - not when 1. Healing them via Renewal is pointless due to the rate at which their health decasy and 2. the fact that Nekros is intended to be able to heal existing Shadows by recasting SoTD ANYWAY.

Right now Shadows being healed by Renewal serves no other purpose than to rapidly drain Oberon's energy pool and make it very difficult to keep the rest of the party healed and buffed AND cast his other abilities.

Sadly

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20 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

He's also needlessly hampered anytime a Nekros decides to cast SoTD anywhere near where Oberon happened to cast Renewal. 

Renewal should NOT affect Shadows - not when 1. Healing them via Renewal is pointless due to the rate at which their health decasy and 2. the fact that Nekros is intended to be able to heal existing Shadows by recasting SoTD ANYWAY.

Right now Shadows being healed by Renewal serves no other purpose than to rapidly drain Oberon's energy pool and make it very difficult to keep the rest of the party healed and buffed AND cast his other abilities.

I know, ugh! Why DE, why? 

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2 hours ago, (XB1)ZenithLord 42 said:

Why DE, why? 

Because DE seems to have a habit of "revisiting" things only when it's been needed for a long time and after much clamoring, declaring the revisit to be "good enough" when obvious bugs are eliminated and things are working "as intended", and then calling it a day and "mission accomplished".

That and they probably allowed Shadows to be affected by Renewal because of "important balance considerations" on their end. Like how and why they nerfed Braton Prime's ammo reserves back in the day...

 

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