Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[phoenix1992]

I am surprised this topic is not rolled over with the rest.

[Maka.Bones]

Please check out my suggestions, and tell me what you think/comment your own ideas. :)

Edited February 4, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[BornWithTeeth]

It must be because it's such a good photo album.

[ant99999]

First let me say that for more than three years that I've been playing this game I've never (or at least almost never) seen an update which introdused a somehow unreasonable change to a warframe or a weapon or some game mechanics. Every update or fix does what it does because of some reason and even if it is a nerf or a total replacement (as it was with Excalibur rework) I knew it would end up with balance improvement or overall better gameplay.

But what the devs say in their latest Workshop is just so strange and, I should say, illogical that this is literally the first time I'm discouraged and even frightened with the changes. And this is not even because of the changes themselves.

So, I'm talking about warframe roles, what they mentioned in the Workshop and what it is in reality. 

First about Ember. She was mentioned as a damage caster with widespread lethality. This is not true. I mean at all. According to the Wiki and my calculations, she can do about 25-30k damage per WoF hit. This means that you need about 150 hits to kill a lvl 150 bombard. This is not a damage dealer and not a widespread lethality. Mag shredding a full bubble of those bombards with a single Lanka shot is a damage dealer. Mesa killing a crowd of chargers no matter where are they coming from is a widespread lethality. But Ember is a CC first, support second and a damage dealer on the last place.

But what about an Ember wiping out an entire map without making a shot? This is easily achievable thanks to the base damage of 400 and enemy level of the Starchart being not more than 50. Just lowering the damage would be enough, why decreasing her CC potential? The funniest in all this is that this won't even solve the problem. Not being able to use Ember? Then you can use Equinox who is basically the same but with slash damage or Excalibur with his unlimited punchthrough. If someone wants to autopilot an exterminate he will surely find a way to do it, and Ember was just the most effective one.

Next about Mag. Excuse me, who is she? A CC frame? Well, then Banshee is a tank and Wukong is a support, why not? Mag is an excellent damage dealer but CC? Nova is a CC, being able to slow down an entire interception room so it takes minutes for enemies to reach a console. Volt is a CC, stunning all the enemies in range and using them as additional CC sources. Mag is not. Her Magnetise weakly pulls enemies towards the center so that a bursa, for example, can easily excape it. The Crush has a duration of knockdown not much longer than the one of casting animation. And Pull on top of that has negative synergy with Magnetise pulling enemies out of the bubbles. Where is this CC potential?

So, of course, we can't say anything about the changes yet without trying them ingame. But for me it is not so important. What is more important is what balance changes can be there if Ember is a damage dealer and Mag is a CC?

[KunoUshinawa]

15 minutes ago, Xantheis said:

OK.  then change your build - 22 meters isnt a lot of range as it is. until you play their final version of the change, you will not know how it reacts.  Maybe you run with it on for 20 sec then turn it off and back on.  maybe you decide to mix up the abilities more.  There are options and until you play it, you wont know what works.  

the devs will absolutely be monitoring and will adjust if needed.  maybe not on your timeline but, it will get adjusted if they see in the data that it needs to be.  or it wont.  either way, play it before screaming that the sky is falling. 

I'm labeling you a troll after this stupidity.

My clan agrees that you are a troll.

Although I do suggest you try your own suggestion and get back to us all here and tell us how well it worked.

Because I have played Ember the way you suggested, it's called Ember with no mods, other than intensify... It was terrible.

[KunoUshinawa]

11 minutes ago, Shadedraxe said:

Wait they gave Arca Plasmor headshot multipliers again? Or do you just mean the fix for the bug where Arca Plasmor did 0 damage on headshots? Because that was unintentional.

It doesn't do 0 damage, but no headshot multiplier

[Maka.Bones]

I agree with you. I like that they reduced the range & doubled damage, but the double cost of energy is really bad. Not to mention that now her firequake makes her a lot less survivable. 

 

Please check out these suggestions that I made, to help ember be balanced, while scaling, and also much more fun to play. I actually posted this on the day of the dev workshop

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Adioos]

DE's perspective: We must nerf ember

1 - her cc is scaling to high level enemies

2 - in low levels she just stands around

3 - everyone has an ember prime or regular

I don't see a problem with 2 and 3 but if they wanted to nerf ember they could have just changed her CC augment.  Its not like ember scales against level 100+ enemies.

Players perspective: ember needed nerfing because

1 - her cc is scaling to high level enemies where people can have 40% power str and have enemies recieve a continuous blast proc as long as her ability is active with the augment for world on fire.

2 - people complain about kill stealing in low levels.

3 - ember is used a lot by many people so changing her will waste any resources that people put into her, hence forcing people to get alternatives which require more resources and make DE more money.

Once again point 1 could have been solved by reworking her CC augment.  Point 2 should be irreverent because she can't steal kills at high levels, and even if she steals kills, it does not affect anyone in the team in a negative way.  If people are using Point 2 as justification for ember's nerf then they are probably part of the toxic elitist community in the game that want to force their play style of bare essentials onto everyone.  Note that everyone plays the game differently and playing with bare essentials does not make the game more fun for everyone. Point 3 seems like the most valid reason to suspect such harsh nerfs like reducing range to 20m which is less than some melee weapons and sufficiently increasing energy costs (hence making her useless).  It gives any player sufficient reason to suspect that DE probably saw all the elitists in forums whining about not needing any skill to play ember in low levels and took that as an opportunity to force the players to grind more resources and give them more money.

[Conchar]

Hello DE, I'm looking forward to trying several of these changes in the flesh to get a feel how they mix up game play with Banshee, Ember, Gara, Mag and Zephyr.

 

Small Note for Ember the ram up % thing on ember sounds interesting at least with damage and cost, the range  reduction not so sold on. This does hurt  the more CC  fire quake style play, which was my thing at least :<

 

Now to my "main" topic Mag :-

 

Firstly Feedback on the proposed stuff:

-Energy bump is much appreciated!

-Scaling shards with power str is nice, people don't really play into them with their current implementation I think.  So have to see.

-Bit unsure of the over lapping of crush and polarize giving shields. Again have to see how this works.

My suggestions-

 

Passive
could this tag along your shards you’ve made earlier, so you’re less tied down to fighting in the same area? If they become more of a thing of her kit. Better for those capture missions etc.

 

Pull
no changes needed here really.  Perhaps some interaction with the shards or consider having some degree of "greedy pull" baked in.

 

Magnetise 
Defining ability, seems perfectly fine. Some clarity for newer players how different weapons interact with the field in t might be helpful?
E.g. High punch through weapons can hit tougher targets multiple times / High pellet count weapons can charge up the field damage quicker

 

Polarize 
Since the previous revisit, with it now affect armour it’s seem lackluster in high end content, no longer being a shield killing queen. Some fixed % removal of Armor / shields, on top of the base striped amounts would make it more valuable throughout all content. Also, since crush provides over shield should Polarize also do this?

 

Crush

Sorry but I’ve never been fond of crush, so it is harder to give good feedback on something I use more rarely. Perhaps if it knocked enemies down to the ground (magnetized them to it) and those with heavy armour are slowed, depending upon their armour amount and guaranteed magnetic procs on shielded enemies or some quirk for heavy shields too?

 

Other suggestions

Change things up heavily  by going down a design of flipping  between an attraction and repulsion magnetism themed abilities ? 

Pull / push  (as is) / shoves them away  with damage on terrain collision

Magnetise / repulse (as is) / possible like turbulence?

Polarize / depolarize   anti shield / anti armor?

? / ?

 

Hopefully the feedback & the changes that get settled as final help freshen things up and improve the game as a whole.

[Xantheis]

Just now, Uzkost said:

I'm labeling you a troll after this stupidity.

My clan agrees that you are a troll.

Although I do suggest you try your own suggestion and get back to us all here and tell us how well it worked.

Because I have played Ember the way you suggested, it's called Ember with no mods, other than intensify... It was terrible.

Feel free to label me however you want to and discuss my posts with your clan.  Im sort of wierded out that you needed to discuss a forum post with your clan but, whatever works for you. 

I will absolutely get back when the changes hit if they are unacceptable. thats how this whole thing works - they make a change, we play the change, then we talk about the change.  waving the doom and gloom flag before something is released is essentially setting yourself up to be disappointed. Even then, you can change how you play something differently and still have fun doing so.

As of right now, no one (not even the devs) can say what will happen because it isnt released yet.  that is the point.  

[artemisfortune]

name one area in the game that isn't deep into an endless mission that uses level 150 bombards. Not to mention the fact that WoF shouldn't do a ton of damage per hit, it's a lot of damage spread over an area, it deals with little mobs so you can focus your attention on the bigger ones.

I read the rest of your post but your arguments are so smug and standoffish that I don't care to comment on any others. You are writing as if what you're saying is some revelation that we should all be in awe over but all you're really showing is you don't actually play either character very much.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Pent_

[IceColdHawk]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Spider_Enigma:

post sortie is a dumb way to balance... u dont balance for level `120+ and the devs do not want people serviving in that kind of content in the first place

The fact some frames have actual scaling abilities and that they give Mass Vitrify a buff to scale with enemies HP that got caught in the ring pretty much disproves this. Leaderboards also wouldn't exist if there should be a certain set limit that people aren't supposed to exceed.

Edited February 4, 2018 by IceColdHawk

[PsiWarp]

Honestly, Spectral Scream needs much more than lifting its mobility restrictions and a nice but ultimately inconsequential boost in damage with its Vex Armor synergy.

Aside from occasional status procs for CC (which is nonexistent with Toxin), roleplaying a dragon, and knockdown/stagger immunity during channeling, Spectral Scream has nothing else going for it that would encourage a Chroma player to use it frequently.

It disables weapons, it disables other abilities from being activated, it's got a very short range that hardly benefits from Ability Range mods, its Status Chance is high but most abilities have 100% proc chance anyway, its damage is continuous but is absurdly low per second, and though low in cost it wastes precious energy that could be put to better use for the rest of his kit.

Since it's unlikely to get replaced anytime soon, we'll pick up the ashes so a phoenix may rise:

• Elemental Ward, Vex Armor, and Effigy can be activated/deactivated during Spectral Scream.
• The length of the cone doubles in range over 5 seconds (10 m -> 20 m). If Effigy is active, its breath attack will also double in length.
  • Cone lengthening time is inversely affected by Ability Duration (higher duration = faster lengthening, vice versa).
• Ability Range affects the cone arc instead, widening or narrowing the stream based on positive or negative Ability Range.
• Enemies that touch the breath attack are staggered (keep the stream on them to continuously stagger).
• Damage is applied per 0.5 second instead of per second. This increases damage over time and allows for more Elemental status proc chances.

Turn it into a frontal reliable CC & quick DoT to use in a pinch or you can keep active, that doesn't interfere with the flow of your ability timer management (which is key to Chroma's survability).

[T3Wanderer]

5 minutes ago, Xantheis said:

Feel free to label me however you want to and discuss my posts with your clan.  Im sort of wierded out that you needed to discuss a forum post with your clan but, whatever works for you. 

I will absolutely get back when the changes hit if they are unacceptable. thats how this whole thing works - they make a change, we play the change, then we talk about the change.  waving the doom and gloom flag before something is released is essentially setting yourself up to be disappointed. Even then, you can change how you play something differently and still have fun doing so.

As of right now, no one (not even the devs) can say what will happen because it isnt released yet.  that is the point.  

Actually the point is to get the rework done the first time so DE doesn't have to constantly retool. The idea is put up and then discussed within the community so DE can gauge what is ok and what isn't, take critiscism and get ideas. We talk and help them, saving them precious development time and resources later.

[o.0-]

I'd like to see Spectral Scream become more like Hysteria or Razorwing, so move it to be Chroma's 4th and go from there with making improvements, I like idea shared so far in the Workshop.

Next, Effigy slides into the 1st slot and at least sees the energy drain become a health drain on the Pelt Sentry, so that when its health reaches zero, it returns to Chroma.

I'd also have the Augment be apart of Effigy's base ability, but dunno if the devs would be willing to do that.

[(XBOX)DrivableKarma3]

So after trying out different things and thinking them through I am just going to go through the changes here that i see as negative. Overall most of these are amazing and will add a lot of diversity to our frame roster. The ones i don't see as good or helping to fix anything are chroma ember and slightly zephyr and atlas. 

I am going to save chroma for last as i have the most to say about him. 

Atlas:

Over all great changes.

4 I think his rumblers should sightly petrify enemies when get hit or hit someone. 

I think his 4's augment should make it so it has a aoe attack as well as a bit more health since right now the augment is mostly just a negative compared to not using the augment. 

 

Ember:

Embers changes seem counter productive. First off for lower level missions i can run with an overextended build and this will decrease my range but will in turn increase my power (at 100%) and since i'll be killing the lower level enemies so quick the efficiency will matter far less. While it is true that now she can run through missions fast it's not like I can't do that with many other frames. For higher level content over 60's the damage increase will have little effect as by that point armored enemies wont die though her 4 at all.End game for her comes from crowd control that her 4 offers and this change hurts that greatly. 

Changes:

My suggestion is possibly even worse but i'll have to see what people say. i think that instead they should reduce her 4's damage to around 1/4 of what it was previously but increase the number  of targets it can hit to around 8. As well as this i think they should add a synergy where when you cast three and it hits a target that is effect by her 4 it will leave a pool of lava that will catch enemies in it on fire. Then if you cast your 2 on the lava pools will refresh duration and grow larger to a max set range. Probably 4 meters initially 6 after her 2 with duration of 10 seconds with only duration being effected by mods. 

 

 

Zephyr:

So for her it is less that they aren't good changes and more that i think her 3 will be mostly irrelevant with her 4 if there isn't more reason to use it other then cc. As long as her 4 is good at keeping her enemies trapped then that is vastly improved as that was almost a negative in many cases using her 4 and not being able to hit enemies. 

Changes:

Overall i think she'll be fine and her three being another cc ability isn't really a problem and it could still be used in more panic situations. Maybe just a cost reduction,some extra utility, or forced slash proc. 

 

 

Chroma. 

As i said earlier i have a lot say about this change so hold on.

i'm going to come right out and say it. Personally I am against this change very much. They claim that they are fixing him but as i see it they are just nerfing his damage. He has been this way since the beginning and him being different doesn't make sense as he was made different. Unlike many frames that gain damage he has to pay for it and he may and depending on the level may never get it. Getting past that here are my thoughts.

 

At the most basic his first doesn't really add anything other then fun. Even though that is okay it still doesn't fit into the kit and there is little reason to use it over a weapon. 

His change to his 3 makes the least sense for several reasons. 

Build wise almost every chroma player has negative range and high strength for the simply reason that is the most reasonable way to get the most out of his 2 and 3. You want duration so if you can obtain and use your buff and strength so it's as strong as possible before it goes away. Due to this in order to have decent range you'll either have to sacrifice narrow minded and the massive duration that comes with that making him have have far less tie to obtain the buff and use it. This will create a problem he already has with consistency. If he decides to keep narrow minded he'll lose out on the range making the new change at the 10m base range far less impactful. 

I wished to see a change to effigy as its kinda meh but still really cool.

 

Changes:

For his 1 i think if you hold it should change elements. Next would be a synergy for effigy. Using your 1 on enemies should buff effigy's strength and range and give it a damaging aura. This should all increase based on damage done to enemies through your one. 

I have two solutions to the fix his 3..

1) Return his damage to where it was and take away the ability to self damage for the buffs. This makes it so that you have to truly earn your buffs and would keep eidolon hunter more equal across the various frames as they have abilities that can grant the damage instantly. 

2) Go all in with the team buff feel. This approach is more of a rework but works better with your ideas. First off increase the range to 15 m. This will make it a bit more generous and still is fair. in comparison rhino's roar is 25 m. Next make it so the people that are in his aura increase his buffs from taking damage. This will give him reason to build for range. Finally add a little bit of duration to make up for the massive "fix" to his damage maybe put it at 30-35 seconds. This will increase his consistency and give him a little more wiggly room to not need max duration. 

Lastly for his 4 i think the cost should be reduced. I think 5 / sec. This along with the changes to his one could make a viable rewarding and fun play style that wouldn't be reliant on his 2 or 3 but could still gain from it. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by (XB1)DrivableKarma3
Added atlas change,

[Gandergear]

ASH- I like

ATLAS- I like lots more

BANSHEE-She was already C tier in my books for DPS, but ok I guess

CHROMA-Why would you remove the only reason he gets used, if you don't want your eidolon to get 1 shotted, then make the limbs weaker so players don't feel like they NEED to bring one.

EMBER-She's like a D class DPS, she stops working against high level enemies because ARMOR is imbalanced, not because her damage needs to be increased.

GARA- I like

MAG- I like lots

VOLT- I like a bit, maybe he'll be useful for BERE now

ZEPHYR- the problem with zephyr is that her cyclones are effectively a griefing kit that prevents allies from killing suspended enemies cuz they're so hard to hit. It'd be nice if the enemies stayed near the base of the cyclone instead of flying alllll the way to the ceiling.

I rate this rework a C. You decided to nerf banshee because she's a stay at home mom, chroma because eidolon limbs are night indestructible without him, and ember for I guess valid reasons for low level content.

[Alynoser]

I have to say as a person who just finished putting 8 forma on my ember, im ok with all but 1 change. PLEASE dont cut her range, she is already hard enough to play on higher stages before cutting her range down to nothing. This will destroy not only high damage builds but also the firestorm augment you put out for her which is a pure support augment. PLEASE dont cut her range.

[Xantheis]

Just now, T3Wanderer said:

Actually the point is to get the rework done the first time so DE doesn't have to constantly retool. The idea is put up and then discussed within the community so DE can gauge what is ok and what isn't, take critiscism and get ideas. We talk and help them, saving them precious development time and resources later.

I agree but, there is a difference between posting "this is a nerf and horrible and you are a troll" than providing constructive feedback.  When a reply degenerates into "  i have decided you are a troll.  my clan thinks you are a troll" there is nothing else to say.  You provided feedback.  wait and see what is done, play with those changes, and offer feedback.

It also isnt the end of the world (and that isnt directed at you) if a change goes too far away from what the devs have envisioned for the frame, they will adjust it again. Waving the doom and gloom "I already tested it and its horrible" (which has been posted a few times) doesnt help at all.  

[SoulEchelon]

2 minutes ago, Gandergear said:

ZEPHYR- the problem with zephyr is that her cyclones are effectively a griefing kit that prevents allies from killing suspended enemies cuz they're so hard to hit. It'd be nice if the enemies stayed near the base of the cyclone instead of flying alllll the way to the ceiling.

 

With the update, shooting at the tornadoes themselves will hurt any enemy that's inside them. Now the question is, would ability or melee damage also hit them?

[ArchangelusAlpharius]

@[DE]Rebecca In my opinion, if you guys go through with this ash change, make it so you can hold 3 in order to teleport normally or vice versa, so we can still have the utility of being able to teleport or use the Fatal Teleport Augment

[The_1_FreeMan]

So a couple thoughts on the upcoming changes, and some past ones. For whatever they are worth.

Ember:

The reasoning behind this nerf is something I can very much get behind. As a relatively new player, it is an awful feeling to enter a game and not be able to play it, it feels like you are being trolled somehow. But...Even though she does not do much damage at higher levels, Ember is still useful because of her Firequake augment, which gives her CC. As said on the workshop stream, Ember is squishy. Being able to knock enemies over makes her a lot more viable at higher levels. With the world on fire range nerf, that goes away, and anything with a ranged attack can take you down easily. My suggestion is to simply make her damage scale inversely with distance, from double current damage near her to half damage (or less) further away. That way she can still CC and be survivable at higher levels and do more damage to enemies, while still preventing her from wiping the map. Either have the damage drop off exponentially with range (beyond a certain point) or put a flat cap on how high her damage can be at its greatest distance. Tons of damage nearby, much less damage at long range but still keeping the CC.

Mag:

I really like Mag, she was my first frame and she has great synergy with a number of weapons. My only problem with the suggested change is that her ability to restore shields is being taken away from...well her shield restoring ability. Well, not taken away, but... you know what I mean. Instead of having crush restore shields, have it give armor or maybe cause shards that you've created to explode. Polarize is great for restoring shields, and it does not require a lengthy casting animation. 

Chroma:

It is a good impulse to say that the ability to 1-shot anything in the game should not exist, but maybe refunding forma to those who built Chroma on the expectation that he would continue to be the One-Punch-Man (One shot man?) of Warframe would be a good idea. Considering that this problem has been known about for awhile. Spectral Scream should have two modes like Vauban's Minelayer: one to use, one to switch energy type. If that new pistol you showcased can switch elements on the fly, the frame specifically designed around elemental damage should be able to. Increasing the range on the vex armor buff so that you don't have to hug Chroma to get it would be helpful, but for all I know that is already planned and was just not shown.

Zephyr:

The changes shown in the workshop stream look truly amazing. Really. My one niggle is that Zephyr has to go back to the ground to hover again. Maybe make it so that using tailwind to get from one airborne position to another activates another hover? Also, instead of having dive bomb activate at a certain angle, just have it trigger when using the ability while holding crouch. This would make it a lot less likely to activate at inconvenient moments. But maybe you guys have thought of that already, and it's a non-issue. Other then that, the rework looks phenomenal. Thank you.

Titania:

I like using Titania. She is that combination of fun and effective that I can really get into using. At least up to a certain point. I have two issues with Titania. First, her Lantern. Whenever you cast it on an enemy, they go flying off at high speed unless held down by something. While this is quite funny, it is...less than effective. Making lanterns less mobile would be a big help.

My second issue with is not so much with Titania herself as with her Razorwing Blitz augment. All Titania's other abilities require an enemy to use them on, meaning that you are only going to be using them when in a fight. While increased fire rate is very helpful in this situation, increased flight speed is not. In fact, it can make things more difficult as you might struggle to both keep moving and not get stuck on something.  What are a real asset to Titania in a fight are her razorfly drones. Even if they do not do lots of damage, they draw fire away from Titania. I propose that in addition to the fire rate increase on power cast, whenever you kill an enemy either a new razorfly drone should spawn if you have lost any, or if you still have 6 they should get a health restore. This will synergize with the fire rate increase, and allow Titania to replenish her little squadron without leaving razorwing and making herself a lot more vulnerable. Her flight speed could scale with sprint speed or parkour velocity, or get a flat boost in speed while in "afterburner", or maybe not change at all. 

Oh, and a third thing: a vacuum while in razorwing would be really helpful, it is very hard to pick up energy orbs without getting stuck on the ground. But that's more of a convenience than anything.

 

Banshee:

THANK YOU. GOOD GOD DID WE NEED THAT.

Ash:

Changes look good. 

 

 

I did not include Atlas, Gara, or Volt because... well I've never used them honestly. I don't feel qualified to give much of an opinion. Anyway, that's my two bits. Hope it helps.

[jiminatorx]

1 hour ago, Xantheis said:

Oh cool - when did you play her changes?  I am interested in your take on them now that you have played them.

 

Oh... you havent?  interesting.  How can that comment be a 'flat faced' lie then when you only have conjecture to go on?  

They showed her changes on the devstream. She died 5 seconds after her energy ran out. This was after 4 minutes in MoT also, not anything special..

[Hyl6]

After reading 27 pages and doing some calculations, I see that some of the nerfs may be fair and necessary, but "nerf" of Chroma's 3 seem to make Chroma even less viable for continuous gameplay, due to rather annoying mechanic with self-damage that requires a lot of energy and time spent on self damage in order to reach the viable numbers in the current state.

The one and only thing Chroma currently was capable of, is to provide single target damage while staying alive a bit longer than others, after spending some time on damaging himself and hoping that he had shields to charge his Vex buff. Spending time on self damage is what was making that frame synergize well with the team. Taking other frames in count, as example, Octavia is able to provide much larger numbers on damage buff from weapons with her 4 without spending any time on damaging herself, as well as providing invisibility possibilities to the rest of the team and multi-shot bonus, crowd control and insanely scaled damage on longer runs. Rhino is also able to provide rather large increase in damage for longer period of time for the whole team and is also able to achieve much more EHP without too much effort (we are talking over 200k armor on his Iron Skin).

For most of other end-game missions, where clearing out larger amounts of high level enemies is required, Chroma is nearly useless. There is too many frames that are capable of clearing larger areas without endangering themselves to get killed in the progress. He will be even more useless when he cannot take any hits or take down any targets (approx. 77% LESS armor and dmg buff), so he will not be able to take down those large enemies that the rest of the team is struggling with. Take also into consideration that you MUST take damage to shields in order to get any armor buff, that is rather often not possible if you are taking damage while you need to become immobile to recast your buffs.

Chroma's 1st and 4th abilities were useless before the nerf/buff and will still be useless after.

TL;DR version: Octavia can also take down limb in 1-2 shots - lets nerf her, Volt can take down limb in 5-10 sec SOLO (maybe faster?) - lets nerf him, Rhino cannot die from Teralyst and can take him down in same time as Volt - lets nerf him as well, shall we? And most users can utilize their Void Mode operator for complete Invincibility when necessary making warframe survivability a thing of the past. I don't even want to bring other frames and possibilities into this comparison.

Please nerf all frames to unplayable state and enjoy a dead project, gl with that DE. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Hyl6

[(PSN)Dublincore]

53 minutes ago, (PS4)Chaotic_Mayhem30 said:

how do you have 230-270 strength and 8x multiplier?
 

oh wait nvm i forgot about blind rage. how did you fix the loss of energy efficiency?

The only thing that comes to mind is Primed Flow, a good amount of forma, Zenurik and Arcane Energize.