Regarding Forma compensation for a number of frames you intend to rework.

[TALISMAN_XVII]

Hi, I'd like to first mention that from a objective standpoint, the majority of changes you have planned for quite a lot of the Warframes seem on the whole, relatively fair and needed. I have my concerns about Ember but that's another topic. What does concern me however and others may not agree (Although I imagine anyone whos invested anytime into any of the warframes you plan to change will) is the necessity to modify builds to fit the new dynamics / roles you invision for these Warframes.

I'll use Chroma as an example. I won't be as naive as to assume everyone, but a large chunk of the playerbase utilise and use min/max Chroma builds for his 2nd and 3rd abilities currently. He's that unstoppable tank you call on when the rest of the squad needs it, effective at solo gameplay and of course as of recent, hunting the Eidolon on the plains. If your intention is to (and lets not hide it) change the roles of a few of these Warframes quite dramatically, then I feel adequate compensation (forma) should be given to allow players to adapt their builds. It's been a good 4 years and you provide an in-game market heavily reliant on microtransactions, please don't abuse the excuse of being in the eternal "Beta". Thank you.

Edited February 3, 2018 by TALISMAN_XVII

[Voltage]

They don't need to compensate anything. You invested in the frame, and they are always subject to change. When Greedy Mag was nerfed, players were not compensated in 2015, so why should they compensate for these frames now? No one is entitled to forma after these reworks.

Edited February 3, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[rune_me]

Besides, Forma takes a long time to build yes, but it's hardly a rare resource. Yesterday I was out of forma blueprints and decided to get some. Today I have 8 forma blueprints and could easily have had more if I'd bothered.

[TALISMAN_XVII]

1 minute ago, --Q--Voltage said:

They don't need to compensate anything. You invested in the frame, and they are always subject to change. When Greedy Mag we nerfed, players were not compensated in 2015, so why should they compensate for these frames now? No one is entitled to forma after these reworks.

So we should be just expected to change around and re-forma willy nilly when they feel like a mix up is in order at the drop of a hat? This is substantially more than just a Mag nerf keep that in mind.

[Voltage]

Just now, TALISMAN_XVII said:

So we should be just expected to change around and re-forma willy nilly when they feel like a mix up is in order at the drop of a hat?

Yes. Leveling a Warframe does not even take that long. Worst case scenario is that you need to dump up to 5 forma into something, and that is not even remotely bad.

[Chipputer]

3 minutes ago, TALISMAN_XVII said:

So we should be just expected to change around and re-forma willy nilly when they feel like a mix up is in order at the drop of a hat? This is substantially more than just a Mag nerf keep that in mind.

The game is in a constant state of change. You went into it knowing this.

[TALISMAN_XVII]

Just now, --Q--Voltage said:

Yes. Leveling a Warframe does not even take that long. Worst case scenario is that you need to dump up to 5 forma into something, and that is not even remotely bad.

From my experience when you put that many forma into something the build becomes significantly restricted and specialised, hence why I used Chroma as the example. 

[Husla]

Shouldn't add too many of the same polarities. Always best to have 2x V, - and a D.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Husla

[(PSN)Nyxn607]

Just now, TALISMAN_XVII said:

From my experience when you put that many forma into something the build becomes significantly restricted and specialised, hence why I used Chroma as the example. 

Some frames may have specialized builds, but in reality I don't expect the changes to require you to forma every mod spot you already put forma into.  I expect it to change 1 -2 forma spots at most.  While it may be annoying to spend the 30 minutes to re level what ever frame you need to change, it is hardly worth being compensated for.  I generally forma my frames for use in multiple builds, not just 1 build.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, TALISMAN_XVII said:

From my experience when you put that many forma into something the build becomes significantly restricted and specialised, hence why I used Chroma as the example. 

And? I used over 85 forma on Warframe's alone during the double affinity weekend. I can guarantee that a few more forma on a Chroma will not be that bad. You don't need to be reimbursed with forma, just change your build after the changes are introduced.

Edited February 3, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[xXHobbitXx]

wow, must have had some lack luster frames to be able to put 85 forma into them :) couldnt add a single forma to any frame cause they long time finished being forma'd, always makes me wonder how little people actually use other frames :)

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

You may even find the forma's you already put on are perfect for the new and improved...In any event, its exceptionally unlikely you need to change all of them.

 

[Xantheis]

your request is fundamentally no different from putting forma into a frame then asking for that forma to be refunded when the prime variant is released.  Under no circumstances should this happen and under no circumstances should it be asked for.  

Seriously, the whining over ability changes on this forum right now is astounding.  You (the general you, not OP specifically) havent played with the abilities yet.  you dont know what the impact of the changes will be.  Chroma will be taught to share and will give that damage buff to everyone - no one knows how strong that will be to the squad. Ember now can be effective at higher levels and may actually require some skill to play.  Banshee now can quake and shoot at the same time (and the silence focus farm hasnt been changed at all).  Gara now scales much better into higher levels.  Zephyr looks fun again. And if these changes end up damaging the devs idea of what the frame should be, they will be changed again.  

Sure, your personal numbers may not be the highest anymore.  You may not see 90% damage on your chroma or banshee or ember anymore but, your ego will survive. 

so, again, no.  no refunds on forma.  

Edited February 3, 2018 by Xantheis
grammar

[Campaigner]

RIP endgame firequake CC ember; it was already risky to play as it was. Into the garbage with yet another frame. Be sure to buy the ember prime access though so your trash bin can sparkle!

[TALISMAN_XVII]

9 hours ago, Xantheis said:

your request is fundamentally no different from putting forma into a frame then asking for that forma to be refunded when the prime variant is released.  Under no circumstances should this happen and under no circumstances should it be asked for.  

Seriously, the whining over ability changes on this forum right now are astounding.  You (the general you, not OP specifically) havent played with the abilities yet.  you dont know what the impact of the changes will be.  Chroma will be taught to share and will give that damage buff to everyone - no one knows how strong that will be to the squad. Ember now can be effective at higher levels and may actually require some skill to play.  Banshee now can quake and shoot at the same time (and the silence focus farm hasnt been changed at all).  Gara now scales much better into higher levels.  Zephyr looks fun again. And if these changes end up damaging the devs idea of what the frame should be, they will be changed again.  

Sure, your personal numbers may not be the highest anymore.  You may not see 90% damage on your chroma or banshee or ember anymore but, your ego will survive. 

so, again, no.  no refunds on forma.  

You've missed the point entirely unfortunately. There's a fundamental difference between changing a warframes abilities and what you mentioned regarding asking for forma to be refunded when a prime is released. As I posted I've got no qualms with the reworks, in fact I'm in favour of the majority of them so that's irrelevant.

Edited February 4, 2018 by TALISMAN_XVII

[TALISMAN_XVII]

21 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

You may even find the forma's you already put on are perfect for the new and improved...In any event, its exceptionally unlikely you need to change all of them.

 

It's quite possible we'll have to see I guess, fingers and toes are crossed! 

[Shiichibukai]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb --Q--Voltage:

They don't need to compensate anything. You invested in the frame, and they are always subject to change. When Greedy Mag we nerfed, players were not compensated in 2015, so why should they compensate for these frames now? No one is entitled to forma after these reworks.

Nothing else to say.

[Xantheis]

1 minute ago, TALISMAN_XVII said:

You've missed the point entirely unfortunately. There's a fundamental difference between changing a warframes abilities and what you mentioned regarding asking for forma to be refunded when a prime is released. As I posted I've got not qualms with the reworks, in fact I'm in favor of the majority of them so that's irrelevant.

I havent missed the point actually.  Forma is an easy to get, optional resource.  you chose to use it.  DE is under no obligation to refund anything and asking for a refund of an easy to farm optional resource is just silly. 

things change.  they continue to change.  adjust to the change or dont. either way, your easy to farm optional resource wont be refunded. 

Also - in the second paragraph, i indicated i was speaking to the general you, not to you OP. 

[TALISMAN_XVII]

Just now, Xantheis said:

Also - in the second paragraph, i indicated i was speaking to the general you, not to you OP. 

Yes I'm aware but whats the relevance? 

[Xantheis]

Just now, TALISMAN_XVII said:

Yes I'm aware but whats the relevance? 

you said the following:

Quote

As I posted I've got not qualms with the reworks, in fact I'm in favor of the majority of them so that's irrelevant.

so i reminded you i wasnt directing that paragraph at you but to the general 'you'

[TALISMAN_XVII]

11 hours ago, Xantheis said:

you said the following:

so i reminded you i wasnt directing that paragraph at you but to the general 'you'

Yes but take a step back to your original post, I was asking what the relevance was regarding everyone being up in arms about the reworks. I intentionally didn't mention anything other than briefly noting I was in favour or the majority of them so the discussion wouldn't be derailed into a slog with a load of people whining about their favorite frame being nerfed / reworked.

Edited February 4, 2018 by TALISMAN_XVII

[Xantheis]

Just now, TALISMAN_XVII said:

Yes but take a step back to your original post, I was asking what the relevance was regarding everyone being up in arms about the reworks. I intentionally didn't mention anything other than briefly noting I was in favor or the majority of them so the discussion wouldn't be derailed into a slog with a load of people whining about their favorite frame being nerfed / reworked.

yep.  i understand that.  everything after my first paragraph was illustrating my point that there should not ever be a request for a forma refund and that a refund should never take place by countering the argument that there should be.  there are already 6584684684 (estimate) threads complaining about the changes which is why i didnt go into a ton of detail on them... just enough to support my point.  

[PakkiTheDog]

Dude no forma compensations! If there were forma compensations that would mean that all the frames would become unformad and all those hours waisted. I have 3-5 formas on primed and non primed frames, SO HELL NO!!!!

[GoneBlank]

I don't think a compensation request will get very far (for the reasons others have said).

However, (at the risk of derailing the OP's thread), I really wish DE would reconsider the possibility of enabling multiple polarities to be put onto a given slot. I think it would be a win-win...players get the flexibility they want and DE sells more forma.

[TALISMAN_XVII]

Just now, PakkiTheDog said:

Dude no forma compensations! If there were forma compensations that would mean that all the frames would become unformad and all those hours waisted. I have 3-5 formas on primed and non primed frames, SO HELL NO!!!!

As far as I'm aware frames wouldn't have their formas removed, just given a forma or two to reforma polarities to make new builds viable. There was a similar occurrence just over a year ago I believe when they nerfed a number of primaries.