Proving that ember's 2x dmg doesn't do anything, and a solution to her kit.

[Maka.Bones]

46 minutes ago, slimecorn said:

I wish:

Fireball:
deal 100% extra damage to the enemies who are being affected by Heat proc.

Accelerant:
if a enemy is being affected by Heat proc, Accelerant will refresh its Heat proc duration and spread Heat proc to other enemies near it.
(5m spread range, not affected by ability range.)

Fire Blast:
be in the fire ring will keep Ember's shield recharging without time delay, and +60% shield recharge (affected by ability strength).
deal 100% extra damage to the enemies who are being affected by Heat proc.

World On Fire:
15m.
reduce energy cost when activate the skill (50 to 12); increase energy cost per second (3 to 12).
status chance of WoF is no longer affected by ability strength.
deal 100% extra damage to the enemies who are being affected by Heat proc, each hit on them will also refund 6 energy to Ember.
(energy refund per hit is always 50% of the energy cost of WoF.)

all "100%" of extra damage are affected by ability strength.

just wish >_>

That still wouldn't scale *very well* past lvl 60-80 man :/....... Srry to be negative. 100% damag increase is basically x2 damage. With accelerant, you can get more than x6 damage, and it still doesn't let fireball kill a trash mob at lvl 60... well you could if you land a headshot, but otherwise not really. Maybe infested.

 

 

[Maka.Bones]

I kept thinking more, and more about your suggestions, and I actually wouldn't enjoy them. What you're proposing is just another way for ember to play with little, or no effort. Basically autopilot/afk. Just let your powers kill thins automatically for you, with an added fireball once in a while. 

That wouldn't be much different than the already semi-afk, WoF playstyle. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Ryjeon]

Hey, I see a lot of familiar names from the Ember discussions of yore so I think I'll chime in. Accelerant is what makes Ember a dps powerhouse, especially with Flash Accelerant, which finally let's Ember Fireball Frenzy herself. And I've always liked Accelerant for its simplicity: Jump in, stun everyone, destroy everyone, get out.

I almost never turn on World on Fire until I know the enemies aren't just going to be one-shot by it, because I'd rather jump in and hit the enemy with my weapons. So when I do turn on WoF I use it more like a support/cc ability that happens to still do heaps of damage.

For me Warframe's main appeal is its fluid mobility. And since I'm always moving around I might not even notice the coming WoF changes so much. I still think there is room for improvement in Ember's kit. And my concern is that a shorter range, less efficient World on Fire will make Ember less effective at mitigating enemy pressure, which along with Accelerant's stun is Ember's primary means of survivability. But if they give her something cool for her 3rd ability that compensates in these areas, then she might be improved overall. So I'm going to be optimistic until more details are shared.

Personally, I'd like to one day see an efficiency boost to incentivize constant use of all 4 of her abilities like a classic fire caster archetype. When WoF was duration based and didn't block energy regen sources this was more achievable.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Ryjeon

[Terrornaut]

On 2/6/2018 at 11:36 AM, (Xbox One)DevilishSix said:

I can't tell if your trolling or actually believe what you are saying, because Rebecca obviously was having an energy problem in the showcase, she even got dead over lack of energy.  I watched that energy drain and my best guess is once it hits 100% it is at 3.67/sec drain like Valkyr, which pretty much zapped the fun out of that frame.  I go days without seeing someone using Valkyr.  But I guess thats where we are headed for Ember.  I think DE should not Unvault her and ask that kind of money (i don't know the amount) with the upcoming changes.  It is not fair to new uninformed consumers (would you agree on that?).

Generally agree with the later part about changes and marketing conflicts.
The energy drain at 100% is definitely a problem. Based on 900+ hours of Ember on different builds in all content but eid hunting, I would not let wof get to that point and drain if I did not have other buffs or defense from allies active.  Otherwise though, Ember can kill enemies fast enough if she is built around accelerant at high levels that she can sustain off of energy orbs.  If you expect WoF and accelerant to do all the work for you, then you will get nowhere.

On 2/6/2018 at 8:20 AM, Maka.Bones said:

I wanted to take a moment to show you my ember build, and call you out on your BS.

1) No, she doesn't really kill much past lvl 80. Not unless you're constantly spamming accelerant. (I'm not talking about infested... i'm talking about grineer, corpus, corrupted, sentients)

2) Yes, she actually does have severe energy drain issues... that's only with using her WoF, with a sprinkle of accelerant. Imagine if i'm constantly having to spam accelerant... 

    -Btw, that's just two of her skills. So if she's having energy issues with only two skills, imagine trying to use her entire kit.... 

3) Oh wait, you wouldn't use her entire kit. Because her Fireball, and her Fireblast are ineffective against mobs higher than lvl 40. I know, because i've tried. I made an accelerant build to try to use anything BUT my WoF, and enemies mostly lol'd at me. 

4) My energy issues are with me even adding primed continuity, and not using energy conversion... granted i'd have less issues if I switched my vigor (I usually have vitality instead) for equilibrium. But then, i'd be killed almost instantly by Toxic Eximus units.... I know because It happened a lot. 

5) When you're surrounded with a horde of enemies, trying to strip their armor one by one just sets you up to die. An offensive frame's defense, is to kill before it gets killed. That, or CC. 

You should just stop... Seriously tho, calm your attitude man. Maybe you have a build/playstyle/skillset that works better for you than it does for most other embers. If you do, it would be awesome if you shared it, so we can learn from you. However as it is, ember really does have a hard time killing higher lvl enemies. 

1. She can, certainly can. Also, that is your frame build. Your build is your total build. If you aren't building Ember (and most frames, but Ember moreso) with weapons suited to her then you are dearly missing out.  Also I would ditch Vigor either Flash accelerant and power drift for mobility or range.  Less than 145% range is dangerous for her and over 160% dilloutes WoF targetting relevant units to help keep you alive.  Missing out on Flash is a huge hit.
2+3 Oh yeah, I won't deny half of her kit is useless.  Fireballs current strength is in forcing a panic while you're in the middle of a reload. That's it.  Agree with you.  For Energy drain issues, if you kill slowly, you will have energy issues.  At that power strength, trash mobs will be killed continuosly in under 2.5 sec I think (haven't played wf this month so numbers are a little off), while your buffed weapons should be making short work of heavily armored mobs.  Honestly just from what WoF kills I sustain off of that and energy orbs, nevermind frame energy buffers or blue pizzas.
4. I would not use energy conversion. Its very attractive, yes, but casting accelerant, while it should be a priority, the actual efficiency (I mean TTK, safety, effectiveness of kit etc) gained from holding onto a stack will cause you to suffer some.  Growing power is a good move, and I've done the math and found it is more effective for energy use and damage from kit and weapons than using CP on Ember.  Toxic Eximus and fire units up close (lol :( ) are Ember's greatest prob, definitely.  I have taken antitoxin as my sole def mod sometimes. Eyeroll but whatever.
5. If you're fighting enemies one by one as Ember, you're philosophically (probably a better word that could be used) going about things less effectively.  You pair Ember with an AoE weapon and a single target high damage weapon to deal with crowds.

6.Yeah, it is best to treat every person as a new person rather than part of a sentiment that you've seen and had to address constantly, fair point.  Tiring but that's the right thing to do.  I should hopefully have time later tonight to make a post about build/weapon/companion synergy to send to a few people.  I would make a video to refer a lot of people to but I just don't have the time during the week to do the editing/recutting.

On 2/6/2018 at 9:19 AM, traybong111 said:

WHY DO YOU NOT HAVE FLASH ACCELERANT REEEEEE 

I agree that 2x damage on WoF won't change much, WoF is nothing but a soft-CC for Ember at levels higher than 50. The real damage comes from (Flash) Accelerant, WoF only provides a breathing room to aim your ridiculously buffed weapons. And yes with high-power Flash Accelerant and the appropriate equipments Ember can deal with 100+ content. DE has to realize WoF is an important survival tool for a relatively squishy frame at high levels; I'd really rather DE either converted WoF into a Silence- or Pacify-esque CC aura if they really wanted to keep it a channeled ability or change it into a further self-buff that interacts with her weapon kills and buffs her ability damages or changes their behavior (like Fireball would spread fire proc to nearby enemies for a set duration, Fire Blast would create a backdraft/relative vacuum that knocked down & sucked in enemies, etc).

As much as I wish Ember had some armor strip or %health damage capacity, I've always used weapons like Lecta or Serro to strip armor (or proc radiation, or knockdown) in immediate vicinity. I also remember using 100% corrosive/rad/viral Tysis a lot back in T4S days. 

I'm not against WoF getting the nerf bat, hell most Ember mains back in 2015 knew WoF will be the cause of many lamentations and whines and it'll eventually get nerfed to the ground when DE said they'd make it a toggle ability (though I doubt people expected DE to take this long, I certainly didn't). I've mained Ember when she had 15 armor, 1.0 sprint speed, base 10s WoF that took 2.5s to cast and a bugged Accelerant that couldn't re-stun enemies and when fire proc didn't have the CC effect it has; nerfing WoF isn't going to change anything, and that's the saddest part. I'm not sad that WoF is getting nerfed, I'm sad that DE keeps failing to make a cohesive kit out of what should be the simplest frame. Seriously she's a fire frame, that's like RPG 101 sh!t. 

Pretty much this day in and day out, agreed fairly strongly with everything including ancient history Ember,, though disagree with WoF being only soft cc post 50.  It can still deal damage, but again to soft armor targets or with rapid armor stripping.

Honestly people if Ember had built in armor stripping, with her potential damage output, she would be broken and basically be a more extreme version of Ash as far as damage would go.