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[DE]Rebecca

Dev Workshop: Weapons, Mastery Ranks, and Stats!

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Dammit DE! how am i supposed to make a joke about the gorgons being bad when you buff them like that? Now i have to forma mine because they look awersome and might feel incredible to use...

 

joking asside, great work buffing all of those weapon, hell, you guys even buffed strong weapons as well! but there are a few things i would like to see buffed in some of those.

Twin Rogga, i guess their problem was never their damage(but i have to admit, with so little status and crit, they were kinda useless to use against anything after 75). but i think their problem is also in their reload speed. you pretty much spend more time reloading them than shooting. so i would like it to be sped up a bit(maybe closer to 1 sec since they only have 2 shots).

Kohmaks, i loved the buff you guys gave them... i mean, i would have loved, if you guys had buffed them. please tell me you guys just forgot to say how much you buffed them?

Vasto prime, FINALLY! the VP is one of my favorite secondaries, but the main reason i never used them was because i just couldnt find a riven with reduced recoil. 

latron wraith, i loved that the latron prime is so much stronger now. but why did you guys nerf the wraith? i mean, it was pretty much set, the prime was the status based one, and the wraith was the crit. now, its the prime is the latron to use, and the wraith is to throw away! seriously, is there any reason to use the wraith now instead of the prime?

ferrox, i was kinda disapointed that the charge was unchanged, to me, the ferrox is an awersome weapon, but because of my hands, i can never use it, i would like it to either have a shot on release(instead of shot after done charging), or lower charge. but i guess im in the minority on that.

sancti tigris, if i had to call one misstep(besides the latron one) it would be this one. to me, the sancti doesnt need a buff on its status, but on its crit, there's really no reason not to give it the normal 2x crit damage. seriously, the tigris prime already is a monster of a status weapon, does it need to be the better on everything as well?

stradavar, i still think this is not enough, to me, the weapon should be a dual gun. auto for close and mid range, semi for sniping mid and long ranges. similarly, it should be closer to the tenora in that, it uses more bullets, but but shoots a more powerfull shot. the way i think it should be done would be either the semi auto to have 5-10x the dmg of the auto, but same chance, or it should have better status and crit, something like 10sc/10cc for the auto, 30sc/25cc but same damage. that way you could use it for diferent roles, depending on what you needed at the time. you could then mod it to focus on the semi auto, but able to swap to the auto in case of multiple enemies, OR mod it for auto, and use the semi to snipe stronger enemies. as is, people will still use it as a full auto gun, and pretty much never touch the dual mode that set it appart from other guns... not called tenora or argonak.

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2 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Yeah, I see what you're saying.  I just disagree, due to the crap supplementary stats.

I don't expect you to change your mind, but "strong" is NOT a term I'd use for it.  It kills trash well.  That's it.  It's like an Amprex without a BS Riven, before Hunter Munitions.  Yes, it can kill, but it cannot kill the important things or proc the important procs.

Maybe you're just building it wrong, because it still melts everything in sorties for me except Elemental Enhancement.

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Oh hey, about beam weapons too, maybe fix multishot so it affects status chance as well as damage?  Right now it only influences damage and beams struggle enough to proc anything as it is.  It would be really nice if the status per second crappiness were improved by both fire rate and multishot contributing to it.

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@[DE]Rebecca  I just remembered something. Something that needs putting in egregiously formatted text.

ENEMY WEAPONS SHOULD NOT BE INDIRECTLY ALTERED AND THEIR RESPECTIVE UNITS IMBALANCED FROM CHANGES TO PLAYER WEAPONS.

IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT YOU TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SURE NO ENEMIES USE PLAYER-FACING WEAPON STATISTICS AS THEIR BASE VALUES.

I argued in your favour for a long time, but I had to concede defeat. You did do the illogical thing and let enemies get accidental buffs when our weapons were changed. It needs to end now. Not just for a few units, like the special Ogrises and Vulkars, every enemy weapon needs to be decoupled from ours so that our balance and their balance can be properly tweaked independently.

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Hope you post the rework to melee weapons soon too. Good stuff overall even if rip pandero.

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7 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

Latron Wraith was the crit side-grade alternative to Latron Prime. The sustained DPS works only until a certain point where enemy armor will be so stupid it won't matter having higher raw damage. Pandero was an excellent weapon and my point was that it never needed such stupid nerf. It was an excellent alternative for people, now status, critical chance and critical damage got hugely nerfed.

And Vectis Prime is a very good weapon. If you only use it for hunting Teralysts, thats just you. But buffing a weapon that can ONE-SHOT a lvl 100 corrupted bombard while nerfing a nice secondary is simply the worst case of misguidance I've seen in a while.

A higher sustained DPS means it deals more DPS to enemy types across all levels... By about 15%. The vectis prime is an alright weapon, but it is nowhere near godlike. Killing one target quickly in a horde game means very little. 

 

8 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Sorry, but the Akmagnus took a BRUTAL hit to reload.

It's up to 3.4 seconds.  The damage buff won't save it.

I am assuming that is a typo, along many others typos made in this thread as it reads "decrease." 

Edited by Brinie

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1 minute ago, Brinie said:

A higher sustained DPS means it deals more DPS to enemy types across all levels... By about 15%. The vectis prime is an alright weapon, but it is nowhere near godlike. Killing one target quickly in a horde game means very little. 

 

I am assuming that is a typo, along many others typos made in this thread as it reads "decrease." 

No, the reload speed is decreased from 3 seconds to 3.4 seconds

That's what it meant.

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1 minute ago, Brinie said:

A higher sustained DPS means it deals more DPS to enemy types across all levels... By about 15%. The vectis prime is an alright weapon, but it is nowhere near godlike. Killing one target quickly in a horde game means very little. 

 

I'm assuming you forgot about the innate punchthrough of sniper rifles, fast fire rate and reload speed of the vectis prime. And seriously, stop pretending that higher supposed DPS is better when you know just as much as me that higher raw damage numbers means next to nothing in warframe. If that weren't the case weapons like the Soma Prime wouldn't be the gods they are now. Nerfing crit chance and crit damage is way more meaningfull than increasing the raw dmg output.

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Secondary buff??? Is that necessary???  They already have the better mods.... primary mod buff pls?

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Some of these make ZERO sense.  Kulstar accuracy decreased and damage BUFFED?  Ammo pool down to 12??

Castanas losing ammo too???

As if these weapons are something ANYONE wants to use as is...

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3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Grinlok

Mastery Rank increased from 5 to 7

Damage increased from 120 to 187

Critical damage increased from 2x to 2.5x

Mag size increased from 6 to 9

Reload speed increased from 2.1 secs to 1.7 secs

Increased accuracy while aiming

As someone who loves his Grinlok, I am very happy to see this. Increasing the magazine size to nine feels a tad strange though (why not ten?), but I'm excited to see my absolute favorite weapon get a well deserved buff.

Time to get back to farming more Kuva to see if I can finally get my Riven to have the stats I want and a few more Madurai Lenses to upgrade it to a Greater one.

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So going a little off topic, can we nerf embers damage and leave her world on fire the same except for that. That way we can use it the way you want us to, and the newer players do not have a mass murder called ember burnning the world, lol. But seriously these ember changes are going to kill your player base, a lot of people spent thousands of plat for her so keep that in mind, and I do know this is your game, but it is only possible because me and other players deemed it worthy of our support and time.

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I feel like the amount of content further gated for new players when this goes live is a horrible thing, we shouldn't be gating that much content at mr 14-16 

This game is already one of the most new player unfriendly games out there, without a friend I wouldn't have even gave it a chance past the first few days and locking a lot of the "shiney" weapons super far into the game is an awful move. 

Locking primes that high, which are entirely improvements on their base weapons in almost scenario is exceedingly stupid. Having to churn through a bunch of inferior weaponry for a few months / weeks to access the "good" versions of them is never a good time

Edited by RobinOhm
had to add more hi
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4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Lato Prime

Mastery Rank increased from 6 to 14

Damage increased from 37 to 48

God, I'm sometimes really happy I made a stupid decision with money I should've used on other things...

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Just now, Nitro747 said:

I'm assuming you forgot about the innate punchthrough of sniper rifles, fast fire rate and reload speed of the vectis prime. And seriously, stop pretending that higher supposed DPS is better when you know just as much as me that higher raw damage numbers means next to nothing in warframe. If that weren't the case weapons like the Soma Prime wouldn't be the gods they are now. Nerfing crit chance and crit damage is way more meaningfull than increasing the raw dmg output.

Against a level 1000 bombard, the new Latron Wriath will kill it slightly quicker than the old one. I don't know how to dumb it down further for you. You realize that base stats are factored in when calculating crit?

In a perfect scenario the vectis prime may be able to kill more than a single enemy in one shot. But it is exceptionally slow and tedious to take out a group of enemies the great majority of the time unless they are lined up like dominoes. 

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I really appreciate the fact that weapons are getting buffed this time around, and it seems that weapons that didn't need touching haven't been touched. The doubling of (most) bow draw speeds was a welcome change. The one thing I don't so much agree with is the Dual Toxocyst change. I like the idea of being able to refresh the frenzy buff, but the duration being decreased from 6 seconds -> 2 seconds will make them virtually unusable. The pistols are already unusable without the frenzy buff, but even with the frenzy buff, the pistols are not near good enough to justify the level of aiming micromanagement that would be required to keep up the frenzy buff for even 30% of the time at a 2 second duration, especially considering that headshots are not always possible depending on the direction the enemy is facing, and are often not probable to keep up at distance in live combat against tough enemies.

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3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Boltor Prime

Mastery Rank increased from 2 to 14

Status chance increased from 10% to 24%

Critical chance increased from 5% to 20%

Damage decreased from 55 to 44

Could we not and just say we did?

Reducing damage and then increasing crit chance is just going to screw so many builds.

I have a perfect example here.

8vnmveg.jpg

Already have every single slot fitted with a polarity. It's pure elemental damage, and IPS. Giving it more Status sounds good, giving it more critical chance doesn't sound good.

I see this as trying to make this a more diversely built weapon, but it'll end up worse off with these changes.

If things are subject to change, how about leaving the critical chance at 5%, and increase the status like shown here, and just increasing the Damage to 60-66 in place of the critical chance.

Also ignore the riven. I don't even use them because they are so bad.

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Dual Toxocyst

Mastery Rank increased from 8 to 11

Damage increased from 70 to 75

Status chance increased from 35% to 37%

Frenzy buff on headshot can now be refreshed while it’s active

Frenzy buff duration decreased from 6 to 2 secs

This is another thing I see that needs a little bit of tweaking. Looks great, until I read the Frenzy buff duration is decreased from 6 to 2. Decreasing is logically a good trade off for the ability to refresh Frenzy, except 2 seconds is a bit too low. 2.5-3 seconds would put it in a good position.

Allowing it to refresh makes it really good in situations like survivals where you're going to have a lot of heads to pop to continuously refresh it. However that'll make it more viable for this type of game play only. Doing this I think would hurt it because you'll get more people in this mindset and feel that's the only thing it'd be good to take it, instead of like some level 40 spy mission where the enemy spawns are fewer than Survival, and there's enemies too wide spread that require really precise aiming to take any advantage of refresh.

Everything else looks fine to me except these 2 things in particular.

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Buffs are always nice. That's said these changes to MR only serve to limit the game for new comers (even more so than the game does already) 

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Checked the secondaries list looking for the Stug. Found no Stug. Searched the entire topic for the word "stug". Found zero matches. Got sad and went to play Alley Cat. Then got stuck on the damn giant cheese.

Dear Warframe community, please support the corrosive goo: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Stug

Also, DE can you please let us change the color of the goo at some point? I've been spraying waves of white goo indiscriminately at the grineer for a few years now. It wasn't a problem at first, but now I notice people on Cetus giving me a suspicious look... I feel like I'm being constantly judged by my weapon choices. Please help.

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This is rebalancing done right, tons of juicy little buffs in here. I'd be happy with it as-is, this should make a ton of weapons more fun!

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