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When the hell is Meme Strike being nerf'd? I'm getting so sick of it, it literally is worse than Ember.


--TheGoodDoctorSloth.exe
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Last night I decided to just sit on Hydron doing nothing because of an Atterax Equinox. I just waited out the extraction and left.

There should be an opt out option so we can choose not to play with people who have maiming strike or +x crit on slide Rivens equipped. It solves the problem for everyone at once without nerfing.

Edited by Jarriaga
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20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

With Banshee I agree, but Equinox is just Slash Ember. The fact people have effectively replaced Ember with Equinox on Hydron speaks by itself.

 

You still can't AFK with Equinox and your range is slightly worse.  You also have to actually kill stuff for maim to work.

By that measure Mag needs to be nerfed because you can just sit in the middle of the map wiping everything.  I guarantee that after Equinox and Saryn we'll see complaints about Mag and Mesa.

10 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Last night I decided to just sit on Hydron doing nothing because of an Atterax Equinox. I just waited out the extraction and left.

There should be an opt out option so we can choose not to play with people who have maiming strike or +x crit on slide Rivens equipped. It solves the problem for everyone at once without nerfing.

Then you'll find something else to complain about.  You people are never going to be happy so just get used to the idea of having to use recruitment if you want to enforce silly rules about what people can use.

 

Edited by Urabask
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7 minutes ago, Urabask said:

You still can't AFK with Equinox and your range is slightly worse.  You have to actually kill stuff for maim to work.

By that measure Mag needs to be nerfed because you can just sit in the middle of the map wiping everything.

Since I don't see Mag enough times for this to be a problem, I don't mind.

But after Equinox, Mag will follow. Then Saryn will have a go. Then Mesa will follow. There's no end to the chopping block. Particularly so when people just flock en masse to a frame to resume ultra-efficient builds.

I respect the Banshee players who kept using Banshee though. It shows they like her rather than her efficiency.

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Consi

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

But after after Equinox, Mag will follow. Then Saryn will have a go. Then Mesa will follow. There's no end to the chopping block. Particularly so when people just flock en masse to a frame to resume ultra-efficient builds.

Considering Mag and Saryn both need to keep pressing buttons rather than sit down and AFK after pressing the button once, I highly doubt it.

If anything, Mesa will go before Mag and Saryn.

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6 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Consi

Considering Mag and Saryn both need to keep pressing buttons rather than sit down and AFK after pressing the button once, I highly doubt it.

If anything, Mesa will go before Mag and Saryn.

Players will push for the Saryn Nerf because of her range and constantly-spreading-damage type abilities. They'll conveniently change the argument from "it promotes AFK" to "It's disruptive to other players because they can't kill anything". It's the same mentality. On these grounds I actually think Octavia will be nerfed as well.

Lucky me I'm a Valkyr player, so other than people having issue with Hysteria's invulnerability (A must for a melee frame to handle Juggernauts in melee) there's nothing o nerf there.

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4 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Players will push for the Saryn Nerf because of her range and constantly-spreading-damage type abilities. They'll conveniently change the argument from "it promotes AFK" to "It's disruptive to other players because they can't kill anything". It's the same mentality. On these grounds I actually think Octavia will be nerfed as well.

As a guy who normally likes to play Trinity if I can be carried along, I would hate it for the DPS frames to become nerfed. It would make it necessary to switch to a damage frame since I wouldn't trust the others, which I do not like to play, because they give my hands repetitive strain injuries.

Seriously, those people who want it hard, they should just go play Dark Souls or something. Don't take my relaxation away. Challenge is overrated where there are better things to challenge yourself in, such as getting better grades, mastering a music instrument or working for more money.

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29 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

As a guy who normally likes to play Trinity if I can be carried along, I would hate it for the DPS frames to become nerfed. It would make it necessary to switch to a damage frame since I wouldn't trust the others, which I do not like to play, because they give my hands repetitive strain injuries.

Seriously, those people who want it hard, they should just go play Dark Souls or something. Don't take my relaxation away. Challenge is overrated where there are better things to challenge yourself in, such as getting better grades, mastering a music instrument or working for more money.

So you'd be the afk battery that fuels the afk damage dealer :D

How about you'd have a purpose in that team as the healer and actually heal the tennos being beaten to a pulp by mobs that aren't dumb as a shoe? You'd still get your slack time inbetween heals or buffs, the others would get to keep all their favorite gimmick builds and toys and the mobs would no longer fall like bowling pins at the first sneeze. Everyone would be happy :D

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30 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

So you'd be the afk battery that fuels the afk damage dealer :D

How about you'd have a purpose in that team as the healer and actually heal the tennos being beaten to a pulp by mobs that aren't dumb as a shoe? You'd still get your slack time inbetween heals or buffs, the others would get to keep all their favorite gimmick builds and toys and the mobs would no longer fall like bowling pins at the first sneeze. Everyone would be happy :D

Lets be honest, we'd need a much more complex rework if mob AI and mechanics were sufficient to make Hydron difficult enough that you'd need a dedicated healer.  The real problem here is that the nerf brigade wants to turn affinity/focus farming into a WoW raid while everyone else is fine playing space ninja dynasty warriors.

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59 minutes ago, Urabask said:

Lets be honest, we'd need a much more complex rework if mob AI and mechanics were sufficient to make Hydron difficult enough that you'd need a dedicated healer.  The real problem here is that the nerf brigade wants to turn affinity/focus farming into a WoW raid while everyone else is fine playing space ninja dynasty warriors.

That's what we need. A more complex rework of mobs' AI and logistics. It'll be better than the alternative: taking the frames and gear through the nerf-machine on a regular basis with no satisfactory results.

I've experienced this in GW1 - nerfs, class balances, skill balances. They worked long enough for the devs to get some shut-eye before the community would bring up new builds and tactics. Like Warframe, GW1 also offered a lot in terms of builds. Like Warframe, GW1 also had a community dedicated to speed-clears and high efficiency runs. It was near the end that the devs there decided to try a different approach and give the mobs builds created by the community for their heroes and grouped them in more efficient ways.

I don't fancy the idea of Warframe becoming a "holy trinity" type game. But I would definitely love to see more need for basic team cooperation in public runs. And that's impossible with dumb enemies and overpowered gear. And because we love our gear as it is, wouldn't it be the best choice for DE to actually make our enemies rise up to the challenge we present for them? :D Who cares about temporary fixes when it's obvious that they won't stop temporary fixing the warframes and their arsenal.

I'd gladly and patiently wait for an AI buff without complaining again about anything OP in our arsenal, if such an overwhelming task would be started. I mean, just look at it. One day Ember, Banshee and Chroma get a balance hammer to aleviate some issues and less than a week after, new warframes are brought up, new mechanics, new gear. Why? Because. The mobs. Are. Noobs.

You wouldn't hear any complaints about someone killing something too fast if those mobs would use the bloody mods they drop for us :D 'Cause then, they might actually prove to be a challenge and we'll be more than happy to cooperate and removing it :D

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15 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

That's what we need. A more complex rework of mobs' AI and logistics. It'll be better than the alternative: taking the frames and gear through the nerf-machine on a regular basis with no satisfactory results.

And it's never happening.  So all the nerfs really do is try to solve a problem that they can never fix.

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1 hour ago, Himenoinu said:

So you'd be the afk battery that fuels the afk damage dealer :D

How about you'd have a purpose in that team as the healer and actually heal the tennos being beaten to a pulp by mobs that aren't dumb as a shoe? You'd still get your slack time inbetween heals or buffs, the others would get to keep all their favorite gimmick builds and toys and the mobs would no longer fall like bowling pins at the first sneeze. Everyone would be happy :D

Actually it's not that brain dead. Old Quake Banshee is a huge problem to fuel because she keeps the mobs too far away AND cannot benefit from EV when she channels and AFKs. The AFK embers can't benefit from EV in the first place UNTIL they choose to drop their WoF. Before you comment on this, perhaps read up a bit more about when you can use EV to aid your team, and that all GOOD EV trinities have Vampire Leech to restore shields as well (since shields are relevant for starchart and we have not reached cheesefest stage yet). The new Quake is good because you can coordinate with your banshee when to EV and when to quake. 

And if you have played enough, if you do make proper use of the movement system, getting beaten to pulp should not be happening assuming you yourself don't stand still as dumb as a shoe, so to say, unless the enemy AI has aim bot. And if the enemy AI has aim bot, then it just encourages more cheese strategies, I-frame exploiting and such. You don't solve a single problem by actually making the AI have a higher propensity to hit. You just create more.

So maybe take off those Dark Souls glasses, and realize Warframe is Warframe. Not your MMORPG with Raids and the hot need for Meta Team compo or perfect skill. Players will always find the most efficient way, and all you are suggesting doesn't make anything less Meta, it just shifts it to another set of frames and weapons. Give the enemies mods and more abilities? You might end up forcing everyone to use a certain set of items to become more efficient. Strategies change, but they remain strategies.

25 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

That's what we need. A more complex rework of mobs' AI and logistics. It'll be better than the alternative: taking the frames and gear through the nerf-machine on a regular basis with no satisfactory results.

I don't fancy the idea of Warframe becoming a "holy trinity" type game. But I would definitely love to see more need for basic team cooperation in public runs. And that's impossible with dumb enemies and overpowered gear. And because we love our gear as it is, wouldn't it be the best choice for DE to actually make our enemies rise up to the challenge we present for them? :D Who cares about temporary fixes when it's obvious that they won't stop temporary fixing the warframes and their arsenal.

More complex mob AI? Easy to say, hard to actually do. Also bug prone. The more complex actions are created, the larger the propensity for silly things to happen. Coding is not as easy as people make it out to be. If you do happen to be some genius programmer, then stop complaining about it and go work at DE. Send in that resume. Or else understand that it is no simple task.

As I mentioned earlier, if you "improve" the AI by giving them aim bot or cheese tactics, the players would simply turn to counter computer tactics and cheese strats. No matter if you buff the enemy or nerf the player, the players always find a way. And so you are simply encouraging the Holy Trinity behavior. Or even worse, the narrowing meta.

30 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

You wouldn't hear any complaints about someone killing something too fast if those mobs would use the bloody mods they drop for us :D 'Cause then, they might actually prove to be a challenge and we'll be more than happy to cooperate and removing it :D

You wouldn't hear any complaints about someone killing too fast if everyone would be more appreciative about the time saved, and if discontent would rise up to the challenge and snatch that top kills if they really want. Some players just enjoy biting the hand that feeds them.

And the mobs using the mods for us? Just play higher level content. I heard they have higher health, shields and armor. More damage too. Perhaps they are now using Steel Fiber, Redirection, Vigor and Vitality? Or Serration?

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15 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Before you comment on this, perhaps read up a bit more about when you can use EV to aid your team

I played enough to know both what EV Trin does and what Banshee was doing. Enough on Banshee to lose quite a few rewards on Bere for afk'ing (as I didn't need neither EV's overshields or her energy pulses) - which kinda made me happy to see the new RQ.

17 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

And if you have played enough, if you do make proper use of the movement system, getting beaten to pulp should not be happening assuming you yourself don't stand still as dumb as a shoe, so to say, unless the enemy AI has aim bot.

You're oversimplifying things. You don't need aim bot AI to make things more... challenging. You also have the mechanics in sorties. Radiation/Magnetic damage weaponry.

 

20 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

So maybe take off those Dark Souls glasses, and realize Warframe is Warframe. Not your MMORPG with Raids and the hot need for Meta Team compo or perfect skill. Players will always find the most efficient way, and all you are suggesting doesn't make anything less Meta, it just shifts it to another set of frames and weapons. Give the enemies mods and more abilities? You might end up forcing everyone to use a certain set of items to become more efficient. Strategies change, but they remain strategies.

When you yolo alone through an Eximus Stronghold sortie with just a stick, mashing roughly one button, you don't need a perfect coordination with your EV Trin... Or a Trinity to start with. Make the enemies 2 times smarter and geared and you're still nowhere near Dark Souls in terms of difficulty or challenge (and never should Warframe aim for it either).

25 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

More complex mob AI? Easy to say, hard to actually do. Also bug prone.

Right. so just have the mobs spawn based on the proeminent weapons/ability usage would be a catastrophy waiting to happen? Say, the game registers constant use of bleed procs, so it spawns mobs that have higher physical resistance. It notices people spamming abilities, so it spawns a nullifier with every squad, etc. You don't need to make them Einsteins.

 

28 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

You wouldn't hear any complaints about someone killing too fast if everyone would be more appreciative about the time saved, and if discontent would rise up to the challenge and snatch that top kills if they really want. Some players just enjoy biting the hand that feeds them.

Is this a game to be enjoyed by all? I don't like to play Vacuum simulator and I certainly didn't get hooked up on Warframe because of the loot, but because of the action it showed. So what hand feeding what? :D Boredom?

 

29 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

And the mobs using the mods for us? Just play higher level content. I heard they have higher health, shields and armor. More damage too. Perhaps they are now using Steel Fiber, Redirection, Vigor and Vitality? Or Serration?

How about Drekar Butchers using Condition Overload. Or how about any mob that has them juicy mods actually using them at higher levels. How about that butcher benefiting from all his companions applying various conditions on the tennos. Making the mobs just more beefier doesn't make the game challenging, it makes it boring. Even more so when those stats are still baybladed through like they're not there.

But I guess there's no point in providing a challenge when the rewards aren't up to par. 'cause I guess some of us are only interested in the lower left window statistics of the mission summary: time and loot - preferably with no more than intermitently pushing a button worth of effort on our part :D

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5 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

Seriously, those people who want it hard, they should just go play Dark Souls or something. Don't take my relaxation away. Challenge is overrated where there are better things to challenge yourself in, such as getting better grades, mastering a music instrument or working for more money.

Quoted for ****ing Truth. Thank you good sir. 👏🏻

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2 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

I played enough to know both what EV Trin does and what Banshee was doing. Enough on Banshee to lose quite a few rewards on Bere for afk'ing (as I didn't need neither EV's overshields or her energy pulses) - which kinda made me happy to see the new RQ.

Then you should know old RQ Banshee used her own Zenurik and not EV trin for her energy. Or pads.

2 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

You're oversimplifying things. You don't need aim bot AI to make things more... challenging. You also have the mechanics in sorties. Radiation/Magnetic damage weaponry.

You have mechanics, and players plan to mitigate and overcome said mechanics using strategies in their loadout. It doesn't make things challenging, it just restricts loadouts.

As I said, players always will find the "best way".

2 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

When you yolo alone through an Eximus Stronghold sortie with just a stick, mashing roughly one button, you don't need a perfect coordination with your EV Trin... Or a Trinity to start with. Make the enemies 2 times smarter and geared and you're still nowhere near Dark Souls in terms of difficulty or challenge (and never should Warframe aim for it either).

If you know how meme strike builds work, no amount of enemy intelligence will fix that, because as I said, players will find a way. Be it cheese through the walls, use a Loki or whatever technique they can pull out of their butts. I wouldn't take my EV Trin to Sorties anyway. Blessing Trin, yes, but not EV.

And as I said earlier, playing meme strike legitly without a macro is a pain.

2 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

Right. so just have the mobs spawn based on the proeminent weapons/ability usage would be a catastrophy waiting to happen? Say, the game registers constant use of bleed procs, so it spawns mobs that have higher physical resistance. It notices people spamming abilities, so it spawns a nullifier with every squad, etc. You don't need to make them Einsteins.

It is still more code and if fixed like that, again, as I said, players would find a way to cheese it once they figured out how it works. DE would be adding extra code for not much improvement to any experience here and there. More code automatically = more bugs. I think it doesn't take an Einstein to figure that out either.

Bleed Procs also do finisher damage, so...

2 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

Is this a game to be enjoyed by all? I don't like to play Vacuum simulator and I certainly didn't get hooked up on Warframe because of the loot, but because of the action it showed. So what hand feeding what? :D Boredom?

I don't think I used to see Quake Banshees in every single mission type, or WoF Embers. There are differences between proper fun missions, which I bother to play every now and then, and pointless, unsatisfying grind, which is why Hydron and Quake Banshee existed in the first place.

Cracking Lith Relics and grinding Hydron is not fun, but the time invested is vastly more efficient. You need prime parts for Baro, and EXP for weapons.

As someone mentions on every single thread about farming using various techniques, if DE wants to do away with farming techniques and power spam to farm, they need to ease up the grind or make the rewards worth it. Because most players are too rational to just have "fun" when they realize they are wasting time. I was once like you and would rather shoot/slash everything. But it became inefficient and I became fed up with my slow progress.

Efficiency would never be such a priority if players didn't feel they was a need for it.

2 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

How about Drekar Butchers using Condition Overload. Or how about any mob that has them juicy mods actually using them at higher levels. How about that butcher benefiting from all his companions applying various conditions on the tennos. Making the mobs just more beefier doesn't make the game challenging, it makes it boring. Even more so when those stats are still baybladed through like they're not there.

Then, as I said, players would use counter tactics. For example, regarding your Drekar Butchers, people would just go Negation Swarm Inaros or Rhino P. Or even Nezha. The other way to go about it? Meme Strike or Massive AoE to kill everything before it touches you. Or Invis Loki and no one will see you to hit you.

Again, it just shifts the Meta. It doesn't cure the problem. Sure, because now everyone is a Selfish Rhino everyone gets to shoot. But now everyone's locked with the same few frames. What's the point? Then the next thing is some nerf warrior whining about how all the Rhinoobs are stealing his kills using a spray gun like Ignis.

Adding mods to the mobs doesn't make the game challenging either. It just encourages a certain way of play to mitigate, and still gets baybladed like it's not there. Except now there could more more code problems. More mess ups. More game breaking bugs like things not multiplying correctly. Then people would complain again.

2 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

But I guess there's no point in providing a challenge when the rewards aren't up to par. 'cause I guess some of us are only interested in the lower left window statistics of the mission summary: time and loot - preferably with no more than intermitently pushing a button worth of effort on our part :D

You must be quite the recent player if you see Taxon as the first sentinel people can obtain easily. I can gather as much from reading other threads.

It may seem fun and engaging to be cool and blow stuff up when you start out. But the novelty will wear off. And you may very well ask different things from the game as you did years ago.

Yes, I joined the bandwagon when my brother introduced me to a space ninja game with flashy powers. I enjoyed pressing all 4 buttons on Oberon for quite a few months, or using badly modded guns and leveling them up.

That's more than 2 years ago. Now I'd prefer to relax and take things easy. I'm long past that adrenaline rush phase. I'm no veteran, but I can tell you even a "middle aged player of Warframe" like me doesn't look forward to fun in missions anymore. No, I look forward to the shiny new toy, be it a gun or frame. And how to get them? Farm. Doing missions you find a slog, just so you can enjoy them on missions you don't find a slog.

When real life and work is so difficult, when there are studies taking up your time, is a bit of relaxation in a relatively easy game too unreasonable?

 

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8 hours ago, Aegni said:

They are not designed the same was Warframe. Name a game exactly like Warframe that achieved a perfect balance.

Nobody said "perfect balance", and Warframe itself isn't exactly like Warframe. It's obvious how much it's changed over the years, and can change. And you know this. Take your bad faith arguments out of here.

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8 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

Then you should know old RQ Banshee used her own Zenurik and not EV trin for her energy. Or pads.

You have mechanics, and players plan to mitigate and overcome said mechanics using strategies in their loadout. It doesn't make things challenging, it just restricts loadouts.

As I said, players always will find the "best way".

If you know how meme strike builds work, no amount of enemy intelligence will fix that, because as I said, players will find a way. Be it cheese through the walls, use a Loki or whatever technique they can pull out of their butts. I wouldn't take my EV Trin to Sorties anyway. Blessing Trin, yes, but not EV.

And as I said earlier, playing meme strike legitly without a macro is a pain.

It is still more code and if fixed like that, again, as I said, players would find a way to cheese it once they figured out how it works. DE would be adding extra code for not much improvement to any experience here and there. More code automatically = more bugs. I think it doesn't take an Einstein to figure that out either.

Bleed Procs also do finisher damage, so...

I don't think I used to see Quake Banshees in every single mission type, or WoF Embers. There are differences between proper fun missions, which I bother to play every now and then, and pointless, unsatisfying grind, which is why Hydron and Quake Banshee existed in the first place.

Cracking Lith Relics and grinding Hydron is not fun, but the time invested is vastly more efficient. You need prime parts for Baro, and EXP for weapons.

As someone mentions on every single thread about farming using various techniques, if DE wants to do away with farming techniques and power spam to farm, they need to ease up the grind or make the rewards worth it. Because most players are too rational to just have "fun" when they realize they are wasting time. I was once like you and would rather shoot/slash everything. But it became inefficient and I became fed up with my slow progress.

Efficiency would never be such a priority if players didn't feel they was a need for it.

Then, as I said, players would use counter tactics. For example, regarding your Drekar Butchers, people would just go Negation Swarm Inaros or Rhino P. Or even Nezha. The other way to go about it? Meme Strike or Massive AoE to kill everything before it touches you. Or Invis Loki and no one will see you to hit you.

Again, it just shifts the Meta. It doesn't cure the problem. Sure, because now everyone is a Selfish Rhino everyone gets to shoot. But now everyone's locked with the same few frames. What's the point? Then the next thing is some nerf warrior whining about how all the Rhinoobs are stealing his kills using a spray gun like Ignis.

Adding mods to the mobs doesn't make the game challenging either. It just encourages a certain way of play to mitigate, and still gets baybladed like it's not there. Except now there could more more code problems. More mess ups. More game breaking bugs like things not multiplying correctly. Then people would complain again.

You must be quite the recent player if you see Taxon as the first sentinel people can obtain easily. I can gather as much from reading other threads.

It may seem fun and engaging to be cool and blow stuff up when you start out. But the novelty will wear off. And you may very well ask different things from the game as you did years ago.

Yes, I joined the bandwagon when my brother introduced me to a space ninja game with flashy powers. I enjoyed pressing all 4 buttons on Oberon for quite a few months, or using badly modded guns and leveling them up.

That's more than 2 years ago. Now I'd prefer to relax and take things easy. I'm long past that adrenaline rush phase. I'm no veteran, but I can tell you even a "middle aged player of Warframe" like me doesn't look forward to fun in missions anymore. No, I look forward to the shiny new toy, be it a gun or frame. And how to get them? Farm. Doing missions you find a slog, just so you can enjoy them on missions you don't find a slog.

When real life and work is so difficult, when there are studies taking up your time, is a bit of relaxation in a relatively easy game too unreasonable?

 

Im 40... Ive been playing 3 and half years or so... I still love missions and yearn for the grind. Its what keeps me goin,  constantly clmbing that mountain and never reaching the proverbial peak. I have everything but primed chamber and a few arcanes...but that doesn't stop me from hoarding. Ive built more zaws than we have strikes for, I still want a challenge. I dont want it to be stupid hard all the time but don't want it to be a breeze either. PoE is wonderful, cant wait for venus. No good thing comes easy. 

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14 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Players will push for the Saryn Nerf because of her range and constantly-spreading-damage type abilities. They'll conveniently change the argument from "it promotes AFK" to "It's disruptive to other players because they can't kill anything". It's the same mentality. On these grounds I actually think Octavia will be nerfed as well.

Lucky me I'm a Valkyr player, so other than people having issue with Hysteria's invulnerability (A must for a melee frame to handle Juggernauts in melee) there's nothing o nerf there.

Valkyr was already nerfed. Twice.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Im 40... Ive been playing 3 and half years or so... I still love missions and yearn for the grind. Its what keeps me goin,  constantly clmbing that mountain and never reaching the proverbial peak. I have everything but primed chamber and a few arcanes...but that doesn't stop me from hoarding. Ive built more zaws than we have strikes for, I still want a challenge. I dont want it to be stupid hard all the time but don't want it to be a breeze either. PoE is wonderful, cant wait for venus. No good thing comes easy.

I kinda wish I was here 3 years ago, so I can have a better understanding of how things have changed and maybe bring better arguments than what I have right now. As it is, cheesy gets boring fast and regardless of the effort we put in, we're still quite often unhappy with the rewards. So small (or big) changes in the game's mechanic will keep it a bit more fresh, as we try to find the least resistance path again.

 

14 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

As someone mentions on every single thread about farming using various techniques, if DE wants to do away with farming techniques and power spam to farm, they need to ease up the grind or make the rewards worth it. Because most players are too rational to just have "fun" when they realize they are wasting time. I was once like you and would rather shoot/slash everything. But it became inefficient and I became fed up with my slow progress

The grind is easy in this game. In GW1 I had 300+ runs of some instances without getting that one cosmetic I wanted from them. But the runs were fun and challenging, so I was happy to continue trying.

Getting all the unvaulted primes (except Sicarus) in the first week without focusing solely on that (nor playing 24/7) is more than okay, I'd say. It's just that we got used with easy games with always big rewards. Anyway, if the only fun part of the game for you is the rewards screen, then you ARE wasting time :D Not to mention that playing games IS a delicious way of wasting time to start with, if all you think is efficiency. The journey oughta be as exciting as the destination, I'd say. If anything, DE should another layer of rewards to the missions. To all the missions. With a drop chance similar to Condition Overload's. Cosmetics - be they accessories or ship decorations like the Teralyst Articulas. Giving us extra reasons to visit each planet and pillage the outposts ('cause, let's be honest! we're not protecting the Solar System).

As for us finding ways to cheese through smarter mobs... Everything has to have a counter, including stealth (like Banshee's sonar, ey?!) :D Specialized units deployed against us when we're abusing one game mechanic or another. Funny thing, even then we'll find the path of least resistance, be it solo or in a team, but it won't be bullet-jumping with an amped up WoF through the whole mission (because maybe a grineer will show up with a firehose and extinguish us).

Lastly, it feels better when the devs don't take away our toys but rather give us something to do with them. We would complain less about range and meme strikes and worlds on fire and neverending quakes if the enemies would have means to counter them. We'd be actually busy finding various solo or team combinations to clear content at the desired pace and we'd probably not stick to only one for long, but keep exploring more options. We always did in every game.

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2 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

The grind is easy in this game. In GW1 I had 300+ runs of some instances without getting that one cosmetic I wanted from them. But the runs were fun and challenging, so I was happy to continue trying.

Getting all the unvaulted primes (except Sicarus) in the first week without focusing solely on that (nor playing 24/7) is more than okay, I'd say. It's just that we got used with easy games with always big rewards. Anyway, if the only fun part of the game for you is the rewards screen, then you ARE wasting time :D Not to mention that playing games IS a delicious way of wasting time to start with, if all you think is efficiency. The journey oughta be as exciting as the destination, I'd say. If anything, DE should another layer of rewards to the missions. To all the missions. With a drop chance similar to Condition Overload's. Cosmetics - be they accessories or ship decorations like the Teralyst Articulas. Giving us extra reasons to visit each planet and pillage the outposts ('cause, let's be honest! we're not protecting the Solar System).

As for us finding ways to cheese through smarter mobs... Everything has to have a counter, including stealth (like Banshee's sonar, ey?!) :D Specialized units deployed against us when we're abusing one game mechanic or another. Funny thing, even then we'll find the path of least resistance, be it solo or in a team, but it won't be bullet-jumping with an amped up WoF through the whole mission (because maybe a grineer will show up with a firehose and extinguish us).

Lastly, it feels better when the devs don't take away our toys but rather give us something to do with them. We would complain less about range and meme strikes and worlds on fire and neverending quakes if the enemies would have means to counter them. We'd be actually busy finding various solo or team combinations to clear content at the desired pace and we'd probably not stick to only one for long, but keep exploring more options. We always did in every game.

You aren't getting what I am saying.

There are still fun parts in the game. The Hydron Farming or cracking of Lith Relics to get the next cool gun up to speed or the next great frame to a good state is not part of the fun parts.

The problem is, the rewarding parts and fun parts of the game are as separate as they can be. And thus players don't feel very good slogging it out to get their gear up to level 30 just so they can mod and all. At least I don't. That's why grinding methods even appear.

As I also said, the novelty dies down. And it appears you have been blessed by RNG. There are people like me who need to do 30 over runs on Tyl Regor just for that one Equinox part they missed out, or crack more than 30 relics for one Venka Prime gauntlet. That's not counting the 100s of Axi Relics I have no need for.

The game can't please everyone. And no one is banning you from running your own Ember or Atterax if you wanted. Or running solo, which I did.

22 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

Challenge is overrated where there are better things to challenge yourself in, such as getting better grades, mastering a music instrument or working for more money.

I would simply put this here again. I will never understand why a segment of the human population would love challenge in games meant to obviously distract you from real life. Or maybe your lives are all so comfortable the lack of challenge in it is getting to you? 

Additional sources of stress and repetitive strain injuries are not welcome, thank you. I still like to game, but my taste in games has changed.

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Nerf spin range, double/default normal attack range for whips.

Logically speaking, i think the whip range should be shorter on spin attack as the circle movement thingy (?) is fast enough that there isn't any time for the whip tp stretch outwards. 

Only when there is enough time for the whip' head to travel over a distance given the length of the whip, will it be far enough.

WTF am i talking about?... -.-

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8 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Valkyr was already nerfed. Twice.

That was before I ever played with her, so those previous changes are of no effect to me or my playstyle since I met Valkyr as she currently is. Making sure Hysteria is not infinite is a reasonable nerf in my opinion.

Edited by Jarriaga
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Le 06/02/2018 à 03:33, --Dr.AbaddonicSloth a dit :

It is as simple as the title. I don't have a problem with the mod per se, but the fact that Atterax, Lecta, Scoliac, polearms and staves can potentially have up to 20m range with rivens.... 20 meters, that is a whole 20 meters ahead of the group of other players. And not even necessarily max 20 meters, possibly even 21 or 22m on scoliac and such. Why can this mod even be used on these weapon types? It completely trivializes the whole game. I did a test earlier just for ####s and giggles, and ran sortie 2 15 times, 9 of those times I had someone, or even a few games, 2 people with a meme strike setup and totally just eating the map of enemies. Completely no challenge or competition.

Like up close most of my melees can easily take on hundreds of level enemies, but in such a wide AOE it completely makes the game boring and ridiculous to watch, a Nekros or a Volt or something just zipping around, Rax Droning the whole area and leaving nothing in 2 seconds kind of makes the game boring, even at high levels. Ember see, is getting her nerf/buff, but the thing is she doesn't scale. This is essentially the same thing, the completely same exact thing that just requires interaction from the player, EXCEPT IT SCALES IN THE LEVELS OF 200+ this is ridiculous.

I can see the mod fitting in the game, it can be very good on some weapons, it just is the range that kills it for me, its stupid. If it were like 5m, 6m maybe then it'd be kinda tolerable. But come on DE please, either make it like a static crit chance, or a multiplicative one like Embedded Catalyzer instead of scaling so high with Blood Rush, thisll at least help a little bit, or just don't allow it on high ranged melees or something. 

I'm expecting a ton of backlash from this post, but being a veteran there isn't much left in the game for me to do, so I run sorties and long survivals, kuva floods and such for some fun and challenge, it ABSOLUTELY pisses me off when I just wanna run a game for some fun and an Ahole is droning around like a buzzsaw killing everything in sight. I can't even hit anything, where is the fun in that??

Sincerely AF, from a long time player, as in the beginning, just hear me out. Warframe has changed for the better definitely, but dozens times worse in bad ways, this is one example that needs to be looked into. Nerf the damn thing please.

inB4hate

So you finally realise that nerfing ember was pointless too ? what a surprise, it's not like it's had been told numerous time.

And I tell you something, nerfing this won't solve your issue too...

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