When the hell is Meme Strike being nerf'd? I'm getting so sick of it, it literally is worse than Ember.

[Haeen]

36 minutes ago, --Dr.AbaddonicSloth said:

Uploading a video, for anyone who hasn't seen or is picking sides when unaware how ridiculous it is to use. Solo'd sortie 2 earlier in 14 mins, woulda been faster had I actually been good at spinning around and aiming the thing, shows how often I use it... it NEEDS to go. Melee rebalance NEEDS to fix it.

 

Will link it when it finishes uploading.

So...you went through 10 waves of Sortie 2 of augmented enemy armor in 14 minutes.

I could see it, primarily because a solo player will have significantly less enemies to deal with, and sortie 2 isn't very hard considering slash damage bypasses armor and the grineer, generally tend to have lower HP pool.

But hey, I'll go ahead and say that Trinity needs to be nerfed since she can solo all three Eidolons.

 

[--TheGoodDoctorSloth.exe]

 

Incredible that there is still doubt, when the whole thing behind Atterax being a good synergy with it is DUE to its slash procs and status, as well as crit multiplier... incredible how ignorant some are. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by --Dr.AbaddonicSloth

[Haeen]

1 minute ago, --Dr.AbaddonicSloth said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXa5erpGiQ8&feature=youtu.be Incredible that there is still doubt, when the whole thing behind Atterax being a good synergy with it is DUE to its slash procs and status, as well as crit multiplier... incredible how ignorant some are.

I literally just agreed with you...and you proceed to make this sort of statement. I understand not hearing people when angry but not reading what someone said?

Either way, this doesn't show there is a problem. It shows you have one of many ways of killing lots of grineer.

I can do the same with a fully forma'd ignis...or amprex...or quanta

[--TheGoodDoctorSloth.exe]

I read it, looked to me like straight up disagreement.

[Haeen]

1 minute ago, --Dr.AbaddonicSloth said:

I read it, looked to me like straight up disagreement.

Reading can be difficult when you assume everyone is an enemy.

Focus less on the fact that someone disagrees with you and focus on WHY they disagree with you. That is how a discussion works instead of yelling your points ad infinitem

Edited February 27, 2018 by Aegni

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

38 minutes ago, Aegni said:

If you had, you'd find that wasn't really quite what was being discussed.

I do agree in this case, the nerfs did nothing.

Sometimes it can be beneficial.

Im at wrk, i generally skim over as is... But that was alot of info. Nerfs dint fix anything, because we as gamers always find another way. 

I dont personally utilize Maiming in my builds but i do see the appeal. Especially in high lvl corpus missions where we now have to deal with 3 different kinds of nullifiers as well as bursas that can drop nully bubbles on our heads.... Being able to sweep passed that cluster **** of crap with a spin or two, isnt a bad thing. DE needs to fix their broken mechanics before bringing down the nerf hammer.

And @dr.abbadonic_sloth... i can solo sortie 3's with a dual ether sword in less time. The fact u used Maiming with a whip to do it, is neither amazing or game breaking.

[--TheGoodDoctorSloth.exe]

True, can't disagree with that, still looked like a disagree though. That is high tier content to most players.

[WolfTitan]

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

30 minutes ago, WolfTitan said:

That being said... My dual ether's are incredibly powerful. Wish we'd get a prime version soon.

[sixmille]

It's just a terrible mod. It makes non melee weapons irrelevant, warframes irrelevant, and it's insanely repetitive and boring. When a Trinity player can do more damage than a Mesa with a single mod, the game has an issue. The only way to go is nuking the stat entirely. That includes rivens.

[Akimbo]

It's not even maiming strike that's broken. It's Blood Rush, the formulae and how they interact with maiming strike that is broken.

[Haeen]

10 hours ago, WolfTitan said:

I laughed

[Urabask]

11 hours ago, --Dr.AbaddonicSloth said:

 

Incredible that there is still doubt, when the whole thing behind Atterax being a good synergy with it is DUE to its slash procs and status, as well as crit multiplier... incredible how ignorant some are. 

Does it really matter?  We spend most of our time in ~lvl 10-50 maps where you can do the same thing with just primed pressure point, primed reach and some dmg+status mods.  Even if maiming strike is nerfed you will have the same problem in the vast majority of content that is played.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Urabask

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

12 hours ago, --Dr.AbaddonicSloth said:

 

Incredible that there is still doubt, when the whole thing behind Atterax being a good synergy with it is DUE to its slash procs and status, as well as crit multiplier... incredible how ignorant some are. 

... And I map-wiped that sortie 2 with an unranked Plague Keewar Zaw spec’d toward only Corrosive and Condition Overload with my Contagion Spore Saryn and completed it in less time.

Get over this fixation with Maiming Strike, the Atterax, etc. There are better forms of killing. Everyone and anyone can clear a Sortie mission with the right gear.

Heck, even though I did the most damage I was actually only 2nd in kill counts to a Peacemaker Mesa.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

... And I map-wiped that sortie 2 with an unranked Plague Keewar Zaw spec’d toward only Corrosive and Condition Overload with my Contagion Spore Saryn and completed it in less time.

Get over this fixation with Maiming Strike, the Atterax, etc. There are better forms of killing. Everyone and anyone can clear a Sortie mission with the right gear.

Heck, even though I did the most damage I was actually only 2nd in kill counts to a Peacemaker Mesa.

Indeed, it seems drabaddonicsloth is more fixated on Atterax than Maiming. The thing is, we are goin to have open worlds similar to PoE on each planet... Extreme range on any weapon wont be an issue. With DE continuing to push towards a wide open setting and gettin away from a cramped 3 x 5 room... Were goin to need all the range we can get.

Were only nerfing now what were goin to need buffs in later.

As far as Atterax clearing a sortie... Avalanche frost, mallet/amp octavia, spore saryn, regulator mesa, landslide atlas, primal fury wukong and a slew others can do the same thing in half the time.

[PrivateRiem]

Can't believe this whole debacle is still going on.

There is no logical reason to nerf maiming strike other than that specific mod probably causing more carpal tunnel syndrome than it should in players, and that's mostly due to how spinning is done on a keyboard more than the mod itself.

 

Stop beating a dead horse. It's like complaining that Primed chamber is OP.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

my zaw does this better than atterax, and its stance is more entertaining.

i could also build my galentine prime to be even stronger without maiming strike at all, should they also nerf condition overload because i use that instead?

 

there will always be someone one shotting all the content in front of you, thats just the way this game ends up most of the time.

 

what we need, is more mods that behave on a similar level for ranged weapon types. Argon scope is more or less the same thing but functions dramatically worse.

 

oh maybe they should make Maiming strike work like argon scope? multi the base instead of additive?

 

nah, argon scope and the pistol version should be like maiming imo. my nukor should be able to have a 135% base crit rate just because i hit something in the head because of a "common" mod. then and only then will this game be balanced.

Edited February 28, 2018 by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

8 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

my zaw does this better than atterax, and its stance is more entertaining.

i could also build my galentine prime to be even stronger without maiming strike at all, should they also nerf condition overload because i use that instead?

 

there will always be someone one shotting all the content in front of you, thats just the way this game ends up most of the time.

 

what we need, is more mods that behave on a similar level for ranged weapon types. Argon scope is more or less the same thing but functions dramatically worse.

 

oh maybe they should make Maiming strike work like argon scope? multi the base instead of additive?

 

nah, argon scope and the pistol version should be like maiming imo. my nukor should be able to have a 135% base crit rate just because i hit something in the head because of a "common" mod. then and only then will this game be balanced.

Balanced? Balance is based on opinion. Everyone has a different idea of what balance actually is. 

Some people believe we should nerf everything until the game is stupid hard because to them fun is always climbing a mountain and never reaching its peak.

Others believe a fast paced game like this is supposed to have its get out of jail free card mechanics and theres supposed to be "the easy way".

Others just like tweaking their builds and having multiple lvls of difficulty and multiple tile sets to work with. (Thats me)

Balance is opinion and playstyle. Noone playin this game truly knows what balance is. So using it as a basis is false. Everyone deserves a chance to have fun... Thats why we have dungeon style gameplay... Which is where this Maiming strike issue originated... And we have open world style gameplay.. Maiming strike isnt an issue in PoE.

So, nerfing something thats op in one tile set and average to mediocre in another, is ignorant. 

[Haeen]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Balanced? Balance is based on opinion. Everyone has a different idea of what balance actually is. 

Yes...yes we do.

Balance for a fighting game is every character have the same opportunity to win, with match up ratios being 5:5 across the board.

Games of chane such as poker are balanced in that everyone has the same chance to receive a certain combination of cards, with no method of hurting your opponent's chance or improving your own.

Balance is a concept that focuses on the idea of overcentralization. What strategy is employed? Is it too strong?

The concept of balance is universal, I would suggest reading SIrlin, he discusses it in greater depth and better than the time constraints I possess allow.

 

[HisokaXEveryone]

I do agree with the OP that the slide-attack thing's just ridiculous to watch, not fun to be around if you don't want to just AFK, and it doesn't involve aim, barely requires positioning, and simply makes the player move around while using the same motion multiple times until the mission's over. There is very little skill required for this to work, yet provides the best damage in the game while killing things so fast that the user isn't much at risk. The only angle at which this can be defended is by saying that the mod requires trading to get, and as most people who've tried to seriously do trading can attest, even without selling rivens or buying plat it's possible to earn the 400p that this thing sells for in under a week, possibly in just a day or two if you get lucky with drops.

 

And there's a few ways to allow it to remain amazing. Here's a fairly simple solution: give maiming strike a cooldown, something not too bad, like 15-20 seconds. Or better yet, make it build up over time when not-slide attacking (so if the max time's 20 seconds, make it only have a 45% crit bonus if you keep slide-attacking every 10 seconds). Suddenly the rofl-copters are gone, but the mod should have use for bursting very heavy enemies or the occasional large pack. There's plenty of other ways to make it tolerable as well, such as:

1.Make its damage depend on the enemy's distance from the player, with attacks within the first 10% of the total reach dealing the full crit, and those at the edge only gaining a 10% boost.

2. The same as above, but in reverse or with the middle being the focal point, makes the thing require even more skill.

3. Give it a sweet spot required for the effect at all, but greatly increase the effect. For instance, you could set it so it only gives the crit boost if you hit with the last foot or two of the attack, thereby allowing short-ranged weapons to more easily proc it, but longer ranged ones could be used to show player skill (Something melee in general doesn't get to do much)

4. Make it scale endlessly by 2% per second, resetting on each slide attack. If you hold off on slide attacking for 10 seconds, you get a 20% crit boost, but if you wait for 10 minutes, you get a 1200% crit. Since bosses in this game tend to be melee-immune and/or a bit of a joke anyways, this should allow for some hilarious numbers without effecting actual gameplay too much.

5. Increase its effect, but make it only effect one enemy per swing. This means that smaller range weapons can use it about the same as they do now(as a burst of damage against heavies, or not at all), but weapons with massive range will suddenly become far less ridiculous.

 

Anyways, these are just me spitballing suggestions, like I said before, the thing has to be nerfed: it's power's in no way related to skill, barely to dedication, and it's not fun for other players to deal with. But I don't want the mod nerfed into the ground or removed either, it has the potential to be an interesting mod with some tweaks.

 

Edited February 28, 2018 by HisokaXEveryone

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, HisokaXEveryone said:

I do agree with the OP that the slide-attack thing's just ridiculous to watch, not fun to be around if you don't want to just AFK, and it doesn't involve aim, barely requires positioning, and simply makes the player move around while using the same motion multiple times until the mission's over. There is very little skill required for this to work, yet provides the best damage in the game while killing things so fast that the user isn't much at risk. The only angle at which this can be defended is by saying that the mod requires trading to get, and as most people who've tried to seriously do trading can attest, even without selling rivens or buying plat it's possible to earn the 400p that this thing sells for in under a week, possibly in just a day or two if you get lucky with drops.

 

And there's a few ways to allow it to remain amazing. Here's a fairly simple solution: give maiming strike a cooldown, something not too bad, like 15-20 seconds. Or better yet, make it build up over time when not-slide attacking (so if the max time's 20 seconds, make it only have a 45% crit bonus if you keep slide-attacking every 10 seconds). Suddenly the rofl-copters are gone, but the mod should have use for bursting very heavy enemies or the occasional large pack. There's plenty of other ways to make it tolerable as well, such as:

1.Make its damage depend on the enemy's distance from the player, with attacks within the first 10% of the total reach dealing the full crit, and those at the edge only gaining a 10% boost.

2. The same as above, but in reverse or with the middle being the focal point, makes the thing require even more skill.

3. Give it a sweet spot required for the effect at all, but greatly increase the effect. For instance, you could set it so it only gives the crit boost if you hit with the last foot or two of the attack, thereby allowing short-ranged weapons to more easily proc it, but longer ranged ones could be used to show player skill (Something melee in general doesn't get to do much)

4. Make it scale endlessly by 2% per second, resetting on each slide attack. If you hold off on slide attacking for 10 seconds, you get a 20% crit boost, but if you wait for 10 minutes, you get a 1200% crit. Since bosses in this game tend to be melee-immune and/or a bit of a joke anyways, this should allow for some hilarious numbers without effecting actual gameplay too much.

5. Increase its effect, but make it only effect one enemy per swing. This means that smaller range weapons can use it about the same as they do now(as a burst of damage against heavies, or not at all), but weapons with massive range will suddenly become far less ridiculous.

 

Anyways, these are just me spitballing suggestions, like I said before, the thing has to be nerfed: it's power's in no way related to skill, barely to dedication, and it's not fun for other players to deal with. But I don't want the mod nerfed into the ground or removed either, it has the potential to be an interesting mod with some tweaks.

 

Goes for 200p max on ps4 and honestly pretty hard to sell. 

I agree, dont nerf it... As we get more and more open world play it will become less and less of an issue. 

I dont use it myself unless its on a riven or something... Even then only a couple weapons i use have it. However, i do like to sell it or trade it for stuff i need/want.

[Mr.Holyroller]

It will be funny when maiming strike gets nerfed, but there are a ton of other builds and setups that are much more broken

[Ghosgar]

People are also too reliant on this broken combo. Hell i even see people doing this retard dance on the index. Whats worse is sure they get some kills in the beginning, but after like 30 tokens they just look like useless idiots desperately trying for a kill so they can feel better about themselves. A Snipetron vandal does better than them and its not that efficient.

[Winterbraid]

On 2/28/2018 at 8:59 PM, Aegni said:

Yes...yes we do.

Balance for a fighting game is every character have the same opportunity to win, with match up ratios being 5:5 across the board.

Games of chane such as poker are balanced in that everyone has the same chance to receive a certain combination of cards, with no method of hurting your opponent's chance or improving your own.

Balance is a concept that focuses on the idea of overcentralization. What strategy is employed? Is it too strong?

The concept of balance is universal, I would suggest reading SIrlin, he discusses it in greater depth and better than the time constraints I possess allow.

 

I think balance in PvE is more than just that though. When it's human against human, you just need to ensure everyone is on the same playground. But in PvE it's human against script, so the enemy is always in a losing position from the start. Balance is also about the degree to which you want to mitigate that inherent advantage of the human player over the computer enemy, typically by giving the enemy superior stats compared to the player.

And I believe most players don't really want "the same chance to receive a certain combination of cards". They want their personal gameplay experience to feel unique and significantly different from others. Some want maximum single-target damage, some want AoE, others prefer a supportive role. When you get to that point, you can't really expect every single one of those options to perform equally well in every situation.

Warframe has relatively small enemy advantage for the most part, which means the playstyles centered around a mix of mobility and AoE will tend to dominate. The fact that Ember and Maiming Strike have garnered the most negative attention is, in my opinion, pure coincidence. They just happen to synergize well with the cramped tilesets in which we've been spending much of our time, and I think part of why Maiming Strike looks so good in mission results is because the game counts overkill damage when calculating damage dealt. Personally, I'm surprised Mesa doesn't come up in these kinds of threads more often...

[Doomsknightmare]

Just stop. For godsake.