When the hell is Meme Strike being nerf'd? I'm getting so sick of it, it literally is worse than Ember.

[DreamsmithJane]

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Prove it

Like I said, do your own homework. Do you think I'm a math tutor? Prove it yourself.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 hour ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Like I said, do your own homework. Do you think I'm a math tutor? Prove it yourself.

Unless you are willing to provide a burden of proof, then it is really your opinion versus theirs. Just saying that your refusal makes you appear to either be a troll who is making stuff up on the fly, or are just misunderstanding something.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

3 hours ago, calenhed33 said:

Slash proc always was an issue. Most powerful CO weapons are slash based as well, thats not a coincidence. Most powerfull heavy weapons? Slash based. Light ones? Slash based unless they are VERY subpar.

That aside the slash procs wont be THAT stupid without maiming strike scalling with blood rush or the insane range from primed reach, so in the end if they nerf the interaction with the crit combo or the way the added range behaves about damage the end result would be that.

Also, considering Atterax as the main offender, they can simply change critical multiplier to 2x and critical rate to 35% and they will buff non maiming strike builds AND nerf maiming strike based ones.

Maiming strike isnt needed to buff slash crit/status builds to op lvls. Not at all. 

https://imgur.com/a/9kp4j

These 3 mods as well as gladiator set can do exactly wat Maiming can do, as fast as Maiming can do it. 

On top of that, Maiming strike on its own is mediocre. So to blame everything one this one mod is dare i say noobish.

Edited March 11, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[DreamsmithJane]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

Unless you are willing to provide a burden of proof, then it is really your opinion versus theirs. Just saying that your refusal makes you appear to either be a troll who is making stuff up on the fly, or are just misunderstanding something.

That's not what the phrase "burden of proof" means. More importantly, the burden of proof was theirs to begin with, and I'm confident they never had any such proof, because what they said wasn't true. That particular subject was discussed thoroughly when Condition Overload was new and it was first discovered that it scales exponentially with itself for each unique status effect. The proof I have is not hidden. The mathematical equations involved are readily available. Fine. I'll spell it out.

Multiply the Blood Rush (and Gladiator set, if used) value by whatever combo multiplier you've found easily achievable, add one, and multiply the result by the sum of Maiming Strike and the weapon's base crit chance to find your total crit chance on slide attacks. Multiply that by the modified critical damage number less one, and then add one to the product to find your average damage multiplier (ignoring the combo multiplier itself, because that applies to all weapons). If you then take the logarithm of that number to base 1.6, you'll find that you need to apply an impractical number of status effects to match MaimRush critical damage using Condition Overload on most weapons. Therefore, Condition Overload in actual use boosts damage less than a Maiming Strike build, as well as requiring extra time to apply status effects in order to achieve even that. The synergy of Maiming Strike and Blood Rush has been known for a long time, and Condition Overload does not nearly match it, let alone exceed it, in practice.

It's not hard to figure out that if a CO weapon does outperform this metric, it does so via the status effects themselves. And with that in mind, it follows that a status weapon forced to crit via Maiming Strike and Blood Rush will do more damage (to what I argue is an extreme degree) than that same weapon using Condition Overload, if only one of the two is used. It should take mere seconds to figure that out, if you know how the mechanics involved actually work. And it takes only minutes to confirm this in practice (which I have done, by the way). I have used a CO weapon with Artax and Saryn's Toxic Lash and Spores, enough to actually provide the requisite number of status effects for my purposes (since I don't often stay in missions long enough to build extreme combo multipliers that would really break Blood Rush), and multi-target TTK of CO+status is still worse than crit+status, by a lot.

Now, did I really need to type that out, or is this a case of someone needing to do their homework, like I already said a couple of times? It gets really exhausting to see people aggressively rehashing debates that should have long since been put to rest. It muddies the waters and hinders the ability of others to (in this case) provide well-informed feedback in a clear and concise manner. Is the "troll" me, for trying to tell the truth without going on tedious rants, or is it the person who really should have known better? I tried not to do this, because apparently, some people find it pretentious when I'm thorough, but it seems that giving people the benefit of the doubt doesn't work, either! Oh, well!

TL;DR: Nerf Blood Rush and Gladiator set. Just those. Maiming Strike, crit-slide rivens, Void Stalker, Cat's Eye, Charm, Covenant, and Condition Overload are fine.

[KittySkin]

17 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Maiming strike isnt needed to buff slash crit/status builds to op lvls. Not at all. 

https://imgur.com/a/9kp4j

These 3 mods as well as gladiator set can do exactly wat Maiming can do, as fast as Maiming can do it. 

On top of that, Maiming strike on its own is mediocre. So to blame everything one this one mod is dare i say noobish.

I specially noted that what breaks the slash procs are maiming strike WITH blood rush. Not maiming strike alone. Ando no, theres no mod combination capable of reaching as high slash proc multiplier as maiming with blood rush can, saying other thing (unless we are speaking about a crit on slide riven) its mathematically impossible, specially if you consider how reliable its to proc it with weeping wounds and other mods to increase its proc rate.
No mod combination can reach 700%+ critical chance, not even considering the insane range and proc rate you can get for a dedicated build to proc slash alone.

And no, this 3 mods cant do that.

Maiming strike buff slash damage because the added critical chance from the MS and BR combo increase A LOT the slash damage.

To note something, ash ult can crit. Excal dash cant crit. That alone makes they deal way less damage.

MS+BR+WW its so far the most powerfull forced slash combo in the game, period. No combo of mods or weapons can even come close to that, specially once your combo counter reach 3x and you can AOE do that on a group of enemies.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

2 hours ago, calenhed33 said:

I specially noted that what breaks the slash procs are maiming strike WITH blood rush. Not maiming strike alone. Ando no, theres no mod combination capable of reaching as high slash proc multiplier as maiming with blood rush can, saying other thing (unless we are speaking about a crit on slide riven) its mathematically impossible, specially if you consider how reliable its to proc it with weeping wounds and other mods to increase its proc rate.
No mod combination can reach 700%+ critical chance, not even considering the insane range and proc rate you can get for a dedicated build to proc slash alone.

And no, this 3 mods cant do that.

Maiming strike buff slash damage because the added critical chance from the MS and BR combo increase A LOT the slash damage.

To note something, ash ult can crit. Excal dash cant crit. That alone makes they deal way less damage.

MS+BR+WW its so far the most powerfull forced slash combo in the game, period. No combo of mods or weapons can even come close to that, specially once your combo counter reach 3x and you can AOE do that on a group of enemies.

My point is, this thread is to nerf Maiming. By itself its mediocre. Its only through a combination of other mods that Maiming is anything.

Its not mathematically impossible btw.

[Guest]

Whips are supposed to have a short range dead zone, right?  An area up close where they do 0 damage?  So, why the hell does that dead zone shrink with range mods?  The dead zone is supposed to counter the absurd range available to whips, but is a non-factor with just reach, never mind primed reach and a riven.

 

If there's gonna be a dead zone on whips, it should grow in proportion to the total modded range providing an increased skill requirement to match the increased killing potential.  After all, whips deal damage with their tips, not their whole lengths.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

32 minutes ago, TheDefenestrater said:

Whips are supposed to have a short range dead zone, right?  An area up close where they do 0 damage?  So, why the hell does that dead zone shrink with range mods?  The dead zone is supposed to counter the absurd range available to whips, but is a non-factor with just reach, never mind primed reach and a riven.

 

If there's gonna be a dead zone on whips, it should grow in proportion to the total modded range providing an increased skill requirement to match the increased killing potential.  After all, whips deal damage with their tips, not their whole lengths.

Catwoman would disagree with you.