Vaulted Relics in PoE Bounties and Syndicate Packs.

[(PSN)kingdomkey599879]

11 minutes ago, Azlare said:

yep, had this happen 3 times in a row last night with the same squad. Was incredibly frustrating.

Soo all platforms are affected bu the same bugs then?

[Azlare]

1 hour ago, (PS4)kingdomkey599879 said:

Soo all platforms are affected bu the same bugs then?

seems so

[(PSN)kingdomkey599879]

30 minutes ago, Azlare said:

seems so

Jeez...

[DrewUniverse]

On 2/6/2018 at 1:37 PM, [DE]Drew said:

Putting the vaulted Relics in Bounties is something new we're trying that changes up how vaulted items can be acquired. We'll be listening to feedback and making adjustments when appropriate just like we always do. However, from our perspective, Bounties have a few advantages:

• Bounties allow us to centralize the location of vaulted Relics for explicit vault hunting (easier for both players and us to track). 
• Bounty rewards are fairly transparent, so they work especially well for something that is only around for a relatively limited time. 
• Bounty rewards let us keep the broader Solar Map for what players are used to hunting the rest of the year: Relics with new Primes. 

Players will have varying opinions on where and what they'd rather play to acquire vaulted Relics (or any items for that matter), and we know we can't please everyone. You're free to disagree with me, but this is something we feel is a fun and appropriately rewarding way to acquire vaulted items while they are available for the next couple months. I encourage all players to let us know if they agree or disagree with putting vaulted Relics in Bounty rewards. If you think DE doesn't listen to the community, I'm not sure what to tell you that will change your mind. We're here listening every day, just as we always have, and we'll make changes if this plan doesn't work well.  

I'd love to hear more thoughts on this from players. 

Your advantages, while just, also create disadvantages when things go wrong. We're getting stuck in the Cetus-to-PoE corridor along with other glitches quite frequently. I respect your intent, but at the same time putting all your eggs in this basket has not gone well insofar. PoE might be a refreshing way to acquire relics, but there are key factors that must be prioritized over "a fresh approach." 

1. PoE is glitching-out at quite a high rate, and our ISPs are doing fine by comparison in other parts of Warframe. 
2. PoE bounties are not time-tested and proven. I would much sooner run a reliable Interception/Defense/Survival a hundred times.**

**Especially since that's why most of us do a given alert mission with a specific reward attached, or a mission where a specific thing drops. We don't usually go there for the "experience of the mission." We go there for the item in the drop table. Yes, ideally the core experience has more appeal. While it often does, Many of us have run the gauntlet of Warframe's core content - and now PoE - plenty of times. Thereafter, many of us pick nodes that have the final resources we need to complete collections or make a given weapon, warframe, et cetera. It's not ideal but that's what we are given to work with for general drop-table farming.  

I'd rather farm a reliable, stable Int/Def/Surv. mission that may or may not get me the relic I seek, than have a slightly higher chance of that item in a system that I simply cannot count on to get mission rewards safely transferred to my inventory. A reliable system is more important than "making the reward more fun and proper." Particularly when "fun and proper" loses all meaning for the sizable playerbase who can't run PoE or encounter these bugs. At that stage, your intention is moot and the impact must take priority. 

[ProGenji230798]

Warframe is a grinding game and I really have no problem with grinding to get thesse unvaulted relics, bounty or not, but the main issue I have is that I cannot run PoE. My laptop is trash. So please DE, keep the relics in bounty awards to increase the number of people playing in PoE is understandable, but also give us another alternative to get them. Putting these relics exculsively in PoE bounties takes away any chances left for players with lowend PC or laptop like me to get these Prime parts.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

8 minutes ago, ProGenji230798 said:

Warframe is a grinding game and I really have no problem with grinding to get thesse unvaulted relics, bounty or not, but the main issue I have is that I cannot run PoE. My laptop is trash. So please DE, keep the relics in bounty awards to increase the number of people playing in PoE is understandable, but also give us another alternative to get them. Putting these relics exculsively in PoE bounties takes away any chances left for players with lowend PC or laptop like me to get these Prime parts.

psst, you can also get them from syndicate reward packs, in case you were not aware

[shootaman777]

On 2/6/2018 at 2:37 PM, [DE]Drew said:

Putting the vaulted Relics in Bounties is something new we're trying that changes up how vaulted items can be acquired. We'll be listening to feedback and making adjustments when appropriate just like we always do. However, from our perspective, Bounties have a few advantages:

• Bounties allow us to centralize the location of vaulted Relics for explicit vault hunting (easier for both players and us to track). 
• Bounty rewards are fairly transparent, so they work especially well for something that is only around for a relatively limited time. 
• Bounty rewards let us keep the broader Solar Map for what players are used to hunting the rest of the year: Relics with new Primes. 

Players will have varying opinions on where and what they'd rather play to acquire vaulted Relics (or any items for that matter), and we know we can't please everyone. You're free to disagree with me, but this is something we feel is a fun and appropriately rewarding way to acquire vaulted items while they are available for the next couple months. I encourage all players to let us know if they agree or disagree with putting vaulted Relics in Bounty rewards. If you think DE doesn't listen to the community, I'm not sure what to tell you that will change your mind. We're here listening every day, just as we always have, and we'll make changes if this plan doesn't work well.  

I'd love to hear more thoughts on this from players. 

@[DE] Drew

"Bounties have a few advantages:"

Not over the star chart, they don't.  And you'll see why, momentarily. 

 

 

"Bounties allow us to centralize the location of vaulted Relics for explicit vault hunting (easier for both players and us to track)."

This fails to consider several things. 

First of all, DE didn't make it easier for players to track the relics.  Few players, if any, look at the codex.  Fewer players than that even know that the codex can be useful in the first place.  Players look at the wiki or forums to find out where/what relics drop in unvaultings, anyways.  So checking the wiki/forums and seeing that whichever relics drop, in the usual spots, actually streamlines the process, since it allows players to farm for new things in ways that they are comfortable with, and as such are 'easier to track' for players.  Either way, it's the same wiki/forum check.  And on top of that, it's impossible to track loot-table based RNG.  There are several reward pools per bounty, and no guarantee that a player will be able to even grind towards their desired relic.  For example, let's say that a player has a 5 hour window to be online in Warframe, and throughout that time, RNG never selects the Axi L1 relic over the Axi S2 relic.  That player cannot obtain the Axi L1 relic on that day.  Sure, a 2 month window to get the desired items from such a relic is a convenient excuse to ignore any complaint over this issue, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating that it becomes impossible to even have a chance to obtain a certain drop thanks to RNG (before the RNG of the relic itself), and not due to a lack of effort/lack of trying.  Why would DE try to frustrate their players like this? 

Second of all, it's irrelevant whether or not DE has an easier time of it, tracking vaulted relics.  DE are the ones who decide upon and implement the drop locations of the relics, so no matter what, DE will always be able to easily track their locations, since DE knows everything there is to know about their implementation.  If DE needed to do this to make it easier to track their own relics, then just what have they been doing up until now? 

But, let's assume it does make it easier for DE to track these relics.  Tell me off the top of your head (without checking Cetus bounties) which of the following relics are currently up for grabs for tiers 3/4/5 of bounties: Meso E1,Meso F3/Neo E1,Neo F1/Axi S2,Axi L1.  Then, after checking, tell me where the relics that aren't in the drop tables are.  Can't exactly track the unobtainable, right? 

 

 

"Bounty rewards are fairly transparent, so they work especially well for something that is only around for a relatively limited time."

Let's break this down, shall we? 

"Bounty rewards are fairly transparent"

A blatant falsehood.  The bounty rewards are fairly transparent only if a player takes a trip to the wiki/forums, where they find out that they can only acquire the relics on the first 2/3/4 stages of the respective bounty, and that for each stage of the bounty the player completes, the drop chance of the relic decreases due to even more drop table dilution.  The fact that this is not told up front to players, yet you claim that the rewards are 'fairly transparent', is very sketchy.  In other words, players are being told 'do this bounty for these rewards', when their best option is actually to complete 2/3/4 stages of the bounty and then leave to Cetus, since they're only farming the bounty for relics, since the majority of the other drops are worthless to the majority of players. 

"they work especially well for something that is only around for a relatively limited time."

I've already explained the first half of this: 'It's impossible to track loot-table based RNG.  There are several reward pools per bounty, and no guarantee that a player will be able to even grind towards their desired relic.  For example, let's say that a player has a 5 hour window to be online in Warframe, and throughout that time, RNG never selects the Axi L1 relic over the Axi S2 relic.  That player cannot obtain the Axi L1 relic on that day.' 

Add in a busy schedule to compound this issue, and there's a chance that someone may not have a chance to obtain their desired relic, even over the span of 2 months. 

It's the same issue as with Nitain Extract.  Depending on a player's schedule, there's a chance that they may never be around during an alert.  Let's say that someone is trying to build Vauban Prime but needs 20 Nitain Extract, but Nitain Extract is only available for 2 months in the year.  You'd think that with such an example, DE would at least be able to figure out that bounties as the exclusive drop place for vaulted relics with rotating non-guaranteed drop tables (of what a player is looking for) in a limited time frame, would be a bad idea.  Apparently not. 

Also, don't give me the 'Nitain Extract can be sourced from Sabotage caches' excuse.  Go farm Nitain Extract for 3 continuous days, and tell me if you get a numerical amount of Nitain Extract in the double digits.  I personally guarantee that you won't, and look forward to being proven wrong with screenshots of each individual run (which I doubt will happen).  But, I digress. 

"Bounty rewards are fairly transparent, so they work especially well for something that is only around for a relatively limited time."

DE is making a habit of missing the point, here.  The reward being 'transparent' (which is a myth I've already debunked) does not make for something that works especially well due to a limited time frame.  Convenience and reliability make for something that works especially well due to a limited time frame (refer to the Nitain Extract example above if you're unsure as to what I'm referencing as a counterexample).  So that it's at least decently possible for everyone who tries to obtain it, to have a chance at obtaining it.  This is ignoring that bounties lose their charm quickly and the drop tables are polluted with garbage, and that fun is also an essential part of the equation for a limited-time event, of course.  Otherwise, the event is remembered as garbage.  Like Operation: Plague Star and (on-release) Operation: Rathuum. 

 

 

"Bounty rewards let us keep the broader Solar Map for what players are used to hunting the rest of the year: Relics with new Primes."

Any player who has been playing for a while is used to hunting vaulted relics during unvaulting on the broader solar map.  So, you're saying that this part was designed for newer players.  Sounds great in theory, but when you consider that bounties are mastery locked, the idea collapses in on itself, since newer players are likely to be at a lower mastery rank (which would lock them out of some of the bounties).  Whoever thought that your point was valid has certainly not done their homework in regards to Warframe. 

 

 

"Players will have varying opinions on where and what they'd rather play to acquire vaulted Relics (or any items for that matter), and we know we can't please everyone."

If DE had taken a player poll to see where the majority of players would like the vaulted relics to be placed, then DE would have the right to say something like this.  Because, even if DE couldn't please everyone, DE would still be at least making an effort to please the majority of players.  But DE did not do this.  Maybe drop locations are being reserved for things that will come out of the Apostasy quest or the Sacrifice with Excalibur Umbra (or maybe even for hunting down the other Grineer Queen, or something related to the ghost operator ("HEY KIDDO")).  But, at the very least, a 'this is off-limits, hint-hint' that gave us no practical information on future updates (other than that a useless tileset (the void, the derelict, Lua, Kuva Fortress) may yet gain a purpose) would have at least made the players feel better about this situation. 

And I can personally guarantee you that bounties would not have been the place that the majority of players would've preferred the vaulted relics to appear.  If you participated (as a player) in the release of the Plains of Eidolon and the subsequent Plains-related events, you would understand this as well.  Which is why it heightens my displeasure that you have the gall to say something like this after not even making an attempt to try and figure out how to please as many people as possible (within reason). 

 

"this is something we feel is a fun and appropriately rewarding way to acquire vaulted items while they are available for the next couple months"

I've already addressed this point: 'I can personally guarantee you that bounties would not have been the place that the majority of players would've preferred the vaulted relics to appear.  If you participated (as a player) in the release of the Plains of Eidolon and the subsequent Plains-related events, you would understand this as well.'

Your statement is direct confirmation of the fact that DE is out of touch with their own game. 

Additionally, after the oversaturation of events that force players into bounties (Operation: Plague Star, recurring Ghoul Purges, the Zaw/Amp grind), a large amount of players are burnt out of bounties.  I've been on the forums relatively often since the Plains of Eidolon, and have noticed many individuals expressing this sentiment on the forums.  Apparently, DE has not been paying attention to this, which leads me to my next point:

 

"We'll be listening to feedback and making adjustments when appropriate just like we always do"

"We're here listening every day, just as we always have, and we'll make changes if this plan doesn't work well"

Then make it look that way. 

There have been a large number of threads complaining about players AFK leeching on pub bounties since long before Operation: Plague Star.  Have you ever considered why this may be the case?  Because players want the rewards from bounties, without having to endure the boring nightmare that the bounty experience consists of, only to receive mediocre and useless drops the majority of the time.  It's not very difficult to understand, and the fact that this was not understood shows little effort on DE's part to understand the issue at hand.  The freshly unvaulted relics being forced into bounties is only the insult added to injury to the players, by DE. 

 

"If you think DE doesn't listen to the community, I'm not sure what to tell you that will change your mind."

I think that one of two things is true.  Either DE doesn't listen to the community, or it listens to the white knight portion of the community (you know the type: the ones that always say 'Thanks, DE!' with every update and hotfix, even on updates like the original 'The Vaccuum Within' which nerfed Vaccuum to 6 meters, which was essentially gutter trash, as updates and developer decisions go).  I first became active on the forums in reaction to the Update 18.13 nerf nuke and Specters of the Fail, and the constructive feedback that I saw at the time was almost entirely ignored.  And there was a lot of feedback in that time, all of which was declared to be on a list to be reviewed by DE (I believe it was by Danielle, but it was so long ago that I've lost track).  Well, apparently after review, DE decided not to listen.  There's still a suicide bubble on Valkyr's Hysteria, Mag is still considered to be trash, and Mirage still has no purpose in any organised squad (after her blind was nerfed and began functioning even less effectively than the nerfs intended, requiring a simultaneous LoS from both Mirage and the prism to an enemy to blind that particular enemy, often resulting in Mirage's death). 

You're right, nothing you can tell me will change my mind on this matter, since I don't listen to fancy words and twisted logic that are self-contradictory and meaningless: I look at the actions of DE and judge from a perspective of results.  In the case of the recently unvaulted relics being inserted into the bounty drop tables, the results are in, and they're bad. 

 

I'm about to blow your mind.  There's a very simple way to make the community think that DE listens to them: Prove it.  Show me.  Link a specific post on a forum thread that DE considered and thought was good enough of an idea to implement into the game.  I'm not talking about player-reported bugs that were fixed, I'm talking about new ideas, reworks, and constructive criticism. 

If you can show me such a thing on a decent number of developer decisions in updates (not just 50 posts in favour of 1 decision, since that'd be easy to find on a decision that was an obvious one to make in the first place and even DE couldn't have gotten a decision like that wrong, I would hope), then I just may begin to believe you.  As-is, you give me no reason to believe you, and you've given little to no thought into the matter of how to convince a player to believe you, otherwise you would've reached this simple conclusion. 

 

If you're going to change something up, do us all a favour and make sure that the changed version is better than how that particular something originally was. Otherwise, the change was nothing other than a waste of development time and development resources. 

Putting the relics in bounties was not an improvement.  In fact, it increased the difficulty and amount of grind required, thanks to the vastly diluted drop tables of bounties.  Apparently, DE failed to take into account these drop tables before inserting the vaulted relics into them 'to see what would happen'. 

What DE should've done, is have the vaulted relics drop from both bounties, and the traditional star chart sources.  If DE had done this, they would have seen how people would have largely favoured farming the star chart for these relics rather than bounties. 

And DE can still do this.  This is what I propose to be done: put the relics on the star chart where they have not presented a problem in the past, as opposed to making the grind more difficult and tedious by forcing players into bounties.  At least DE will see their mistake that could've been easily avoided with a small amount of forethought and interaction with the community, with their own eyes. 

 

Maybe, as a veteran mr25 player who has been playing since 2013, I've become jaded.  It's entirely possible.  However, that has no bearing in any logical argument, and when I gave you my personal guarantee a few times in this post, it was based on my experience playing Warframe, not on some theoretical that doesn't consider the facts or didn't receive adequate developer testing.  And I hope my feedback helps. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by shootaman777

[(XBOX)BootlegMitch90]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

psst, you can also get them from syndicate reward packs, in case you were not aware

psst, chances of getting the relic you want from the syndicate pack are worse than your chances of getting it from the bounty...

[shootaman777]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

psst, you can also get them from syndicate reward packs, in case you were not aware

psst, I saved up max rep (132k) in 3 syndicates, bought the max amount of relic packs (18), turned in syndicate insignias/medallions/data, and cashed that in for the max amount of relic packs I could get (another 5), and didn't get a single Axi L1 relic, in case you were not aware

Edited February 8, 2018 by shootaman777
RIP spelling

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

6 minutes ago, (Xbox One)BootlegMitch90 said:

psst, chances of getting the relic you want from the syndicate pack are worse than your chances of getting it from the bounty...

 

3 minutes ago, shootaman777 said:

psst, I saved up max rep (132k) in 3 syndicates, bought the max amount of relic packs (18), turned in syndicate insignias/medallions/data, and cashed that in for the max amount of relic packs I could get (another 5), and didn't get a single Axi L1 relic, in case you were not aware

Was not attempting to be rude. I was just trying to make sure you knew about every way possible.

[Acersecomic]

4 hours ago, atejas said:

I use Razorwing Blitz Titania for that reason but it's obviously a band-aid solution.

Ehhh, people used Max Range Rhino and Nova for the same thing, even faster.

[shootaman777]

By the way, I do bounties exclusively solo, and haven't had a single one of the glitches that all of you are talking about.  Just wanted to point it out, in case it helps.  Y'all may want to try solo and see if it fixes some of the glitches. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by shootaman777

[(PSN)RumCask]

14 bounties for 2 relics is my experience so far. In my opinion this idea of tying the relics to bounties with a low drop probability sucks.  

[KijiMuna]

On 2/6/2018 at 2:37 PM, [DE]Drew said:

Putting the vaulted Relics in Bounties is something new we're trying that changes up how vaulted items can be acquired. We'll be listening to feedback and making adjustments when appropriate just like we always do. However, from our perspective, Bounties have a few advantages:

• Bounties allow us to centralize the location of vaulted Relics for explicit vault hunting (easier for both players and us to track). 
• Bounty rewards are fairly transparent, so they work especially well for something that is only around for a relatively limited time. 
• Bounty rewards let us keep the broader Solar Map for what players are used to hunting the rest of the year: Relics with new Primes. 

Players will have varying opinions on where and what they'd rather play to acquire vaulted Relics (or any items for that matter), and we know we can't please everyone. You're free to disagree with me, but this is something we feel is a fun and appropriately rewarding way to acquire vaulted items while they are available for the next couple months. I encourage all players to let us know if they agree or disagree with putting vaulted Relics in Bounty rewards. If you think DE doesn't listen to the community, I'm not sure what to tell you that will change your mind. We're here listening every day, just as we always have, and we'll make changes if this plan doesn't work well.  

I'd love to hear more thoughts on this from players. 

Time investment has increased drastically

Warframe  and Weapon diversity during farming has taken an extreme nosedive (slower Tank-frames are not viable for PoE content, as they're left behind very quickly, and Skywing is in a terrible state, and with an upper level cap of 60, weapons must be viable vs Grineer at 60. this means either extreme damage output or status/slash builds.),

Previous farming locations (Defense, Survival) had "junk" mods as the worst possible outcome, but only one, and only on the lower-end reward pool. bounties have several "junk" rewards, and the final, guarenteed-uncommon reward brackets contian ONLY "junk". No one needs more than one Gara part BP. No one wants another Grim Fury, Swirling Tiger or Sinking Talon.

 

TL;DR: You have increased time investment, decreased reward output per-run and have restricted player equipment to high-mobility Warframes and high-output weaponry. No one did the math.
 

Using the entire playerbase as your guineapigs without sufficient forethought and planning has guaranteed a negative outcome.

Edited February 8, 2018 by KijiMuna

[shootaman777]

6 minutes ago, KijiMuna said:

Time investment has increased drastically

Warframe  and Weapon diversity during farming has taken an extreme nosedive (slower Tank-frames are not viable for PoE content, as they're left behind very quickly, and Skywing is in a terrible state, and with an upper level cap of 60, weapons must be viable vs Grineer at 60. this means either extreme damage output or status/slash builds.),

Previous farming locations (Defense, Survival) had "junk" mods as the worst possible outcome, but only one, and only on the lower-end reward pool. bounties have several "junk" rewards, and the final, guarenteed-uncommon reward brackets contian ONLY "junk". No one needs more than one Gara part BP. No one wants another Grim Fury, Swirling Tiger or Sinking Talon.

 

TL;DR: You have increased time investment, decreased reward output per-run and have restricted player equipment to high-mobility Warframes and high-output weaponry. No one did the math.
 

Using the entire playerbase as your guineapigs without sufficient forethought and planning has guaranteed a negative outcome.

Give this Tenno a space cookie!

 

Well, then again, I have all the Zenurik and Naramon passives unbound, so I use mainly operator for Plains mobility, making the travel between bounty zones trivial. 

And I'm also enjoying Ember before her World on Fire gets nerf nuked later in the week and I retire her for good to find a new go-to (I use WoF for Firequake radial cc, so the fact that the range is getting nerfed by 50% (to 17.5 meters) is quite daunting, especially when I already run max range and it's barely passable). 

No need for high-mobility Warframes or weapons, in this case.  Then again, having to engage in the massive grind that is focus, is not the ideal solution for Plains movement.  But, for everything else you mentioned, spot on! 

Edited February 8, 2018 by shootaman777

[KijiMuna]

49 minutes ago, shootaman777 said:

Give this Tenno a space cookie!

 

Well, then again, I have all the Zenurik and Naramon passives unbound, so I use mainly operator for Plains mobility, making the travel between bounty zones trivial. 

And I'm also enjoying Ember before her World on Fire gets nerf nuked later in the week and I retire her for good to find a new go-to (I use WoF for Firequake radial cc, so the fact that the range is getting nerfed by 50% (to 17.5 meters) is quite daunting, especially when I already run max range and it's barely passable). 

No need for high-mobility Warframes or weapons, in this case.  Then again, having to engage in the massive grind that is focus, is not the ideal solution for Plains movement.  But, for everything else you mentioned, spot on! 

I refuse to acknowledge Focus as-is. DE's valuation of their players' time is set too low for that content to be anything but a technical demonstration.

[kaviji]

On 2/6/2018 at 2:37 PM, [DE]Drew said:

I'd love to hear more thoughts on this from players. 

There is a major flaw with the current drop system. While I like the last stage only pulling from the last 2 categories, for the relics it means that the last stage is pointless if you already have the rare rewards and you are capped on standing, which happens very fast farming them. So what happens? You guessed it, many people are leaving the squad after the second to last phase.  I don't know what the solution to this is, but I can tell you that it makes an already frustrating, boring farm even more aggravating for everyone else who, for whatever reason, actually plan to finish the whole bounty.

Add to this the issues with players flat out not being able to run PoE, or worse barely being able to run PoE and holding the host hostage during the extraction, or just flat out just not liking PoE, there needs to be some other option for the delivery of this unvaulted content, or people are just going to play something else, if they aren't fed up and doing that already.

[IceFire909]

@[DE] Drew

aside from the occasional resource hunt, we currently have no real reason to revisit Kuva Fortress, Lua, Derelict, Void. Hell even most of the planets there's no reason to swing by.

What if Mars, Venus, Earth, Kuva Fortress, Lua, Derelict, Void each game a particular relic? Maybe have something similar to fissures that reward these relics instead of the regular ones. Or even having fissures giving those relics. Or even all or some combination of that?

Personally I'm a fan of giving Kuva Fortress and Lua the relics (as well as leaving them on plains) because I absolutely adore the Lua tileset and the spy vaults it contains. My PC is able to run plains with minimal issue, but that doesn't mean I enjoy walking through that gate so frequently, or that I like having my only relic acquisition option at the plains. If Infested Salvage can have altered relic drops to other missions, then surely you can do the same for the unvaulted batch too and put them on other missions

Edited February 8, 2018 by IceFire909

[ProGenji230798]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

psst, you can also get them from syndicate reward packs, in case you were not aware

I am aware of that, but then I am stuck with only syndicate packs, seems fair enough...

P/s: don't start your comments with "psst" and expect people to think you are being polite, but thanks anyway.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, ProGenji230798 said:

I am aware of that, but then I am stuck with only syndicate packs, seems fair enough...

P/s: don't start your comments with "psst" and expect people to think you are being polite, but thanks anyway.

the "psst" part was meant jokingly, but hindsight is 20/20. Duly noted.

[(PSN)kingdomkey599879]

37 minutes ago, ProGenji230798 said:

I am aware of that, but then I am stuck with only syndicate packs, seems fair enough...

P/s: don't start your comments with "psst" and expect people to think you are being polite, but thanks anyway.

In my opinion i think only sticking with syndicate relic packs doesn't seem like a reliable source for farming.

Like yeah u can get relics for sure but theres so many relics in the syndicat pools that the chances of getting a relic for the vaulted stuff is lower then normal. Plus at max for me im allowed to get a max of like 25k standing a day plus from the syndicat missions. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by (PS4)kingdomkey599879
Left out some detail

[KatsuChicken]

On 06/02/2018 at 10:21 PM, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

3. I disapprove because The doors from cetus have remained closed since the end of the last Ghoul event.

 

I have found performance in the plains to be excellent in the past, but unfortunately, even after the fix in 22.11.1, there are many people that still cant enter the plains since 22.10.0

Is this even being addressed? you put limited timed content into a certain area of the game, that is having horrendous issues, that some players (some paying, some not) cannot even access. I'm all for promoting POE, it is a marvellous achievement, but you have locked a % of your playerbase out.

 

[(XBOX)DS Monkfish]

On 2/6/2018 at 10:21 PM, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

Plains burnout is unlikely to be eased by QoL changes - the problem is feeling constantly pushed into the plains, whether it be for Plague Star, Ghouls, Zaws, Prime parts, Arcanes and whatever is the next "gotta get it from POE and only POE" thing. Please don't misunderstand, QoL changes are welcome and I'm grateful for that, but it really does feel forced upon us right now.

The problem for me with this unvaulting is the fact that running the same bounty over and over and over without getting any relics is frustrating and feels like a waste of time. Many of us have limited gaming time and can't just wait for the bounties to reset in the hope that the relic we want might come into rotation.

Please rethink this idea - I  want to enjoy the time I spend in the plains, and go there voluntarily when the burnout eases off, rather than feel like it's being forced down my throat all the time.

[shootaman777]

On 2/6/2018 at 5:21 PM, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

1. I disapprove because performance issues.
2. I disapprove because I don't want to run bounties.

#1 is something we're continuously working on and hope to improve. 
#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers

@[DE] Drew

"1. I disapprove because 'performance issues' "

So the Plains not being functional (at all) for a decent amount of people (as seen in this thread) is a 'performance issue'?  Sounds like something that should've been considered before releasing the relics into bounties.  It has also been known that there are memory leaks and overintensive graphic requirements associated with the Plains, which would obviously make being forced onto the Plains miserable for a decent amount of the playerbase.  Another thing that was not considered in the decision to put relics into bounties, apparently. 

For example, even though my rig right now would be considered a toaster, when I bought it years ago, it was mid-high tier (and apparently back then, it was considered to be very solid for the graphic requirements of Warframe).  Then all of a sudden, the Plains comes out, and I have to turn my graphics settings all the way down to make the Plains even playable.  As in, every toggleable graphic setting toggled down to its lowest.  And that's perfectly fine, because I can still get a decent framerate with it.  However, ever since weather was added in the Plains, I get drops of 10-30 frames at a time at all times from my usual FPS when it's raining in the Plains (at the lowest graphic settings). 

Want to '... work on and... improve' Plains performance?  Allow the option to graphically turn the weather off (I understand that this may impede with the green Teralyst reskin coming out that apparently rains some form of toxin, so there would certainly be other options).  Allow the ability to set a render distance (in the Plains).  It's like the dilemma that snipers have.  They're supposedly good up to 300 meters, but enemies don't spawn that far from the player (unless we're talking about the Teralyst), which makes trying to snipe at maximum range impossible and nothing more than a waste of the ability to see for 300 meters. 

 

"#2 is more subjective. I've read a few comments about feeling Plains burnout, which is understandable considering our focus lately. We are looking at some quality-of-life improvements, like lowering armored vault bounty timers"

So, you understand that people are burnt out from the Plains, and your solution is..... to force more players into the Plains with blanket promises of 'we'll make some nice changes eventually'?  Who are you trying to kid?  Yourselves?  Apparently it's working, and you believe this. 

Fix the issues with your content before sticking it to your player base. 

Taking 90 seconds off of a 180 second AFK bounty isn't going to make it less miserable, as it's still 90 seconds of AFK'ing and boredom.  If you had found a way to make it more fun for the 180 seconds, then people wouldn't be complaining in the first place.  For example, by adding secondary objectives in each stage of the bounty that can give increased chance towards (biased RNG) either a specific desired reward, or an extra couple of rolls of the bounty reward table.  A secondary objective would be something like a riven challenge or a mission challenge to be done during the bounty stage, such as 'Get 3 headshots in a single aim glide', or 'Get 20 kills with your secondary weapon'. 

Adjusting the time of liberation bounties also wouldn't help the boring experience along.  I spend around 3/4 of a liberation bounty looking for the so-called 'swarm' of enemies trying to take over the bounty zone, and only around 1/4 of the bounty time having a good time in combat. 

However, the largest problem with these two bounties is that they boil down to being nothing other than time sinks.  No matter what you do, you can't speed them up by using skill for faster objective completions as you can with the other bounties than these two.  So, fix that. 

These things are not difficult to come up with, and these conclusions are not difficult to reach.  Therefore, I can only ascribe these problems to a lack of thought/effort/consideration on DE's end.  Think about how it looks from a player's perspective - if you did, you'd see that things aren't looking too hot. 

In other words, DE has once again missed the point.  We want a good experience, not a shorter bad experience. 

[Applery]

Im new to the game, so excuse my simplified game terminology.

I’ve gone through most of the replies in this thread, and what I can say is that community is divided in general about PoE. So we have content (PoE) which one part likes and other part dislikes (and/or can't access). I see PoE as “new world” and solar map as “old world”, each with its own playstyle. And then unvaulted content is added to PoE – which is primary way of actual relic farm in this case, as other ways like syndicate or p2w relic packs is something *extra* you can do. So, of course the part of community which did not like (cannot access) PoE in the first place will riot and complain about this decision as it feels forced on them to play it. It is understandable and expected. And I agree with those who said that unvaulted relics should be added to both PoE and solar map, so both parties can play what they prefer most.

I like that they put these relics in bounties, I like playing on PoE in general. The thing what I do not like now is all these relic farmers abusing the system - joining squad, after finishing first or second bounty stage when relic is awarded this person just goes afk dancing at the gate (safe zone) till the rest of us complete remaining bounty stages. He can’t be kicked from squad by us (as there is no such feature) nor system kicks him for staying afk too long, he got what he came for, so he doesn’t care about the rest of us. Some other people maybe also want to get Gara blueprint or school lens. It’s not hard to use Recruit channel and team up with other people who want to just farm relics and not ruin PoE experience for players who want every reward from the list.

I like to do (get) as many things as possible in as little time as possible without losing the enjoyment part. That’s my playstyle and doing bounties gives me this possibility – I need a lot of neurodes, school lenses, I can level up my weapons or gears (archwings), and now I can also get unvaulted stuff. That’s amazing combo for me. In between of bounty stages sometimes I farm few materials for my Gara and Ostron standing level. I wish they have added more bounties to the list though, with completely different type of rewards making it possible to avoid doing many of solar map missions (I personally find those boring). Secondary missions as something to do on the way from one bounty stage to another would be fun too, giving extra reward for completion. Be the bunny killer and kill 20 bunnies, get an extra relic for your effort 

46 minutes ago, shootaman777 said:

For example, by adding secondary objectives in each stage of the bounty that can give increased chance towards (biased RNG) either a specific desired reward, or an extra couple of rolls of the bounty reward table.  A secondary objective would be something like a riven challenge or a mission challenge to be done during the bounty stage, such as 'Get 3 headshots in a single aim glide', or 'Get 20 kills with your secondary weapon'. 

I’d also like to have an opportunity to check what bounties are up at Konzu from within my ship without going to Cetus (that teleporting and loading sometimes frustrates me especially if bounty with reward I want/need isn’t up). This could also solve the tracking of relics within bounty rewards issue someone mentioned before. We have Conclave window and News window on the right side of Navigator, on the left side is only Syndicate window, so why not put on that side also Bounty checking window (especially if there is a plan to expand open world onto other planets)?

Sure PoE has some bugs here and there, but so far I had experienced bugs 3 times, 2 of which happened after unvaulted stuff release. I play on mid-end pc on high graphics and never crashed so far. Gate loading time isn't that bad either, around 1 minute. But then again I keep my pc in good health, do regular clean ups (physical clean ups including), and always keep my graphic drivers up to date. Sometimes all you need to improve performance is to delete those dump files hehe simple but works :3