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Kiss.Shot.

Vaulted Relics in PoE Bounties and Syndicate Packs.

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28 minutes ago, CY13ERPUNK said:

we can do dbl duty and earn Ostron standing at the same time and get some other PoE drops as well either by stopping to mine a bit or collecting wisps or whathaveyou ; but again remember that there are other places like the OGV and KF that need more incentives atm

Only if you actually need standing.... pretty sure mines full (doubt I'm the only one these days) because after a while there is nothing to spend the standing on, you can't even buy 'rare' resources for standing and there's only so many combinations of zaw worth bothering with. 

When you have nothing to spend the standing on it then turns into... well I don't actually need any PoE resources either...

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2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Only if you actually need standing.... pretty sure mines full (doubt I'm the only one these days) because after a while there is nothing to spend the standing on, you can't even buy 'rare' resources for standing and there's only so many combinations of zaw worth bothering with. 

When you have nothing to spend the standing on it then turns into... well I don't actually need any PoE resources either...

This made me think of another way to present the argument: because Plains of Eidolon does not integrate with the rest of the game in basically any way, you can finish the Plains of Eidolon.

In other words, it’s something that can be completed—it’s basically a long event. 

So in summarizing the opposition as “we don’t like bounties” and brushing off burnout comments, the devs might want to consider that these sentiments may also come from a feeling of having beaten the PoE, and not wanting or needing to go back. 

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to me, one of the bigger issues with "relics in bounties only" is the rotations. not everyone can be on the game for 2+ hours everyday to wait for the bounty rotation to contain the relic(s) that theyre looking for.

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13 hours ago, Hououza said:

I think the core problem is that a lot of the community are suffering from burnout in relation to the Plains as the last two events have both been located there. This was made exceptionally bad because of the initial state of the ghoul lore, which led a lot of players to run the bounties to the point of destruction to get everything.


Six months from now, it would be a nice change and a reason to come back to the Plains, but right now it's frustrating to keep being forced back into the newest content, after many players will have already exhausted all the content it holds and want to do something else.

The core problem, is that bounties are terrible. Mind numbing escort and defense missions. Because more of that was just what we needed.

Just scrap Bounties. Give rep and loot for killing enemies, clearing camps and one off Incursions.

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I actually love running bounties as opposed to doing defense/interception waves to get my unvaulted relics. Bounties and teralyst fights are some of the most fun WF content atm for me, along with survival endurance runs. Bounties are fun and dynamic, I just enjoy it more. I particularly love the fact I can farm for a particular relic in a much more efficient way. Just giving a different perspective here, because most of my friends who really enjoy PoE and relic hunting there are online in the game playing, not browsing the forums. 

Also, I don't want to be mean or anything like that, but I have a pretty mediocre budget gaming PC and a similarly mediocre third world country internet connection, and I still manage to run PoE perfectly fine without any hiccups. I can only imagine the kind of machine people are using to be unable to play PoE at all. I mean, Warframe has been around for 5 years and went through so many graphical and technical upgrades. It's completely unreasonable to expect that your PC that maybe could run the game in 2012 should still run it fine in 2018. This is just how technology and videogames work, it's not just Warframe. These vast graphically demanding open world maps are what's in store for us as far as the future of Warframe is concerned. We already know Venus is next, and it's significantly bigger than PoE. So it's not like it's gonna get any better, performance wise. 

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2 hours ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

I actually love running bounties as opposed to doing defense/interception waves to get my unvaulted relics. Bounties and teralyst fights are some of the most fun WF content atm for me, along with survival endurance runs. Bounties are fun and dynamic, I just enjoy it more. I particularly love the fact I can farm for a particular relic in a much more efficient way. Just giving a different perspective here, because most of my friends who really enjoy PoE and relic hunting there are online in the game playing, not browsing the forums. 

Also, I don't want to be mean or anything like that, but I have a pretty mediocre budget gaming PC and a similarly mediocre third world country internet connection, and I still manage to run PoE perfectly fine without any hiccups. I can only imagine the kind of machine people are using to be unable to play PoE at all. I mean, Warframe has been around for 5 years and went through so many graphical and technical upgrades. It's completely unreasonable to expect that your PC that maybe could run the game in 2012 should still run it fine in 2018. This is just how technology and videogames work, it's not just Warframe. These vast graphically demanding open world maps are what's in store for us as far as the future of Warframe is concerned. We already know Venus is next, and it's significantly bigger than PoE. So it's not like it's gonna get any better, performance wise. 

Lucky you. I've written off PoE as a no go zone for me. Imagine starting a bounty and it won't start, midways in a bounty and it fails, on the last bounty mission and it won't start. ow you've wasted a huge amount of time and get absolutely nothing for your time. The crashing doesn't help either. When something like this happens is it any wonder why some people may be a little frustrated that the only way to farm the relics is to be forced to go through something like that? For me it's reached the point of not even unvaulted primes will bring me to PoE. I refuse to enter i would rather buy a Ember Prime set for 600p than put myself through that again.

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The main issue with bounty relics is that they're common rewards; this means that as players do more stages of a bounty, the likelihood of getting a relic (or additional relics) reduces, and they absolutely will not drop on the last stage. If you want to make Cetus bounties an intensive relic farm for this period, this is fairly perverse since it encourages people to do the first stage and then abort.

 

What I'd suggest is either a) adding multiple relics (one common, one uncommon) to each bounty, or b) adding a relic in addition to a random reward for the last stage of every bounty.

 

EDIT: The other solution I could think of would be to create a separate set of bounties for the relics, similar to how you handled the ghoul event, and give relics a chance of dropping at each stage.

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14 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

There seem to be 2 distinct conversations here (but both important):
 

  1. I disapprove because performance issues.

I don't disapprove BTW, but there is a big difference between "I can't do this now because of performance issues but I can be patient because I know fixing things takes time" Vs "You haven't resolved these problem yet so please don't put time-limited content in an environment I can't engage in yet"

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18 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

Putting the vaulted Relics in Bounties is something new we're trying that changes up how vaulted items can be acquired. We'll be listening to feedback and making adjustments when appropriate just like we always do. However, from our perspective, Bounties have a few advantages:

  • Bounties allow us to centralize the location of vaulted Relics for explicit vault hunting (easier for both players and us to track). 
  • Bounty rewards are fairly transparent, so they work especially well for something that is only around for a relatively limited time. 
  • Bounty rewards let us keep the broader Solar Map for what players are used to hunting the rest of the year: Relics with new Primes. 

Players will have varying opinions on where and what they'd rather play to acquire vaulted Relics (or any items for that matter), and we know we can't please everyone. You're free to disagree with me, but this is something we feel is a fun and appropriately rewarding way to acquire vaulted items while they are available for the next couple months. I encourage all players to let us know if they agree or disagree with putting vaulted Relics in Bounty rewards. If you think DE doesn't listen to the community, I'm not sure what to tell you that will change your mind. We're here listening every day, just as we always have, and we'll make changes if this plan doesn't work well.  

I'd love to hear more thoughts on this from players. 

We love how you are attempting to give us more variety, but putting these in the plains just is not right. The plains just breaks way too much and is much too tedious to be fun. It is doing nothing but alienating the playerbase, something everybody is worried about. Please at least try to leak them out somewhat, or make the rewards only the unvaulted relics for the duration.

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Atleast make the bounties drop a relic 100% if we must farm them.
I've spent 3 hours now, netting 1 single relic, given that the relic itself has a random loot table means that even getting the right relic wont guarantee me the right prime part.
 

If I want, say 5 relics of each, to be sure of the drop. I'd have to spend a rough 60 hours in game without doing anything else than farming bounties.
This is especially frustrating after 10 bounties in a row giving junk-mods and credits.

Please do something about this, just now it just feels like you are trying to force us to "choose" to buy the primes instead of sitting through a lifelong grind.

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Ok i being play this for years ok, i enjoy farm for the old tower keys and the new relics now but the unvault relic in the plains not fair as it take me for 110 mins to load into the plain. im not going be able to farm as much i like that out of line or being force to farm in the plains i wonder? well i known what not happen that only need two item ( Wyrm prime and Bo prim) that it no frame. i feel like i being cheat off this game for not farm the fun way now and unhappy.

 

what only people feel about what happen to the unvaulted relics?

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Honestly, as much as I like bounties and the Plains... having relics in Bounties only ABSOLUTELY SUCKS @$$!
The drop rates are pathetic, you can do several full runs or abuse the 1st step of a bounty and you will not get a single damn relic. And we have three frames here.
Worst of all, it's very frustrating, annoying and disappointing to come out of a relic hunt without a relic more often than not.

I will not be participating in this Unvaulting. Bounties and these relics can bugger off. I want to have fun, but this... combined with my sh1t luck with RNG, it's Mission Impossible without plot armor. Put the relics back into regular missions as well, please, for the love of everything that's sacred, do not force content like this into RNG fest. There is nothing worse in gaming than RNG.

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23 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

Putting the vaulted Relics in Bounties is something new we're trying that changes up how vaulted items can be acquired. We'll be listening to feedback and making adjustments when appropriate just like we always do. However, from our perspective, Bounties have a few advantages:

  • Bounties allow us to centralize the location of vaulted Relics for explicit vault hunting (easier for both players and us to track). 
  • Bounty rewards are fairly transparent, so they work especially well for something that is only around for a relatively limited time. 
  • Bounty rewards let us keep the broader Solar Map for what players are used to hunting the rest of the year: Relics with new Primes. 

Players will have varying opinions on where and what they'd rather play to acquire vaulted Relics (or any items for that matter), and we know we can't please everyone. You're free to disagree with me, but this is something we feel is a fun and appropriately rewarding way to acquire vaulted items while they are available for the next couple months. I encourage all players to let us know if they agree or disagree with putting vaulted Relics in Bounty rewards. If you think DE doesn't listen to the community, I'm not sure what to tell you that will change your mind. We're here listening every day, just as we always have, and we'll make changes if this plan doesn't work well.  

I'd love to hear more thoughts on this from players. 

I have bolded and underlined something very wrong. It is not fun. It's very frustrating and annoying. We're barely getting any relics in a large amount of stages and bounties done. Aside from that players with weaker PCs (not me) are having trouble with PoE in terms of performance.
Bountry RNG is absolute trash just like Sortie RNG, Ayatan and Rivens are supposed to have near identical drop chances and yet in the past 4 weeks I've gotten less Rivens than Potatoes, Exilus and Boosters, which are supposed to be uncommons. And the bounties work in the same way. You don't get that one thing you NEED over and over again.
It is not fun, it is frustrating and  tiring.
I will not be participating in this Unvaulting until it is fixed or improved.

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I really really....REALLYYYYYYYYYYYYYY hate how to obtain the new relics for the unvault warframes is just too tedious to keep doing over and over that  bounties...... I mean when it dont get bugged..... dont understand why put the stuff there .... is not funny at all, at least in the other missions is more funny because need to survive or defend an objective in poe is like the same but like 9000+ more boring .... and need to travel like 9 KM to finish one sheft baunty......

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23 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

I have bolded and underlined something very wrong. It is not fun. It's very frustrating and annoying. We're barely getting any relics in a large amount of stages and bounties done. Aside from that players with weaker PCs (not me) are having trouble with PoE in terms of performance.

Yeah, I'm actually trying to get a load for a clan mate because I know he doesn't like doing PoE on his pc because it's not strong enough. 

While I'm very much of the view that the dev's need to up the game requirements they can't just pretend there aren't players who are using DE's min requirements to play the game and can't actually manage PoE on said requirements...

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12 minutes ago, SyexCr said:

.... and need to travel like 9 KM to finish one sheft baunty......

The only real complaint about PoE you'll hear from me. All the traveling from objective to objective during bounties.

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1 hour ago, UrielColtan said:

You can buy them from syndicates too.

Yeah lemme just RNG Relic Pack roll my whole way through the Unvaulting experience for a CHANCE at a unvaulted relic. Cleary the DE way at this point, since bounties are literally broken. Spent 3 hours last night with my squad running through bounties only to acquire 2 Relics and Bugged missions that just didn't let us progress any further with current or newer bounties.

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23 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

The only real complaint about PoE you'll hear from me. All the traveling from objective to objective during bounties.

Me too.  I don't mind the bounties, and since I haven't played them that much I was actually looking forward to it.  But the traveling is just immensely boring.  The size of the open-world map actually becomes the worst part of it.

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I really like the new relics being in the bounties.  I know exactly which relic I am getting and tend to get a least 1 (usually 2) per run with each segment taking less time than pretty much any other relic dropping mission in the wider star chart.  Even the other rewards are still of a least a little use (or as equal as most places I was planning to farm relics).  I feel that I am getting the unvaulted relics I am after faster than they would drop.  Example: Xini has guaranteed Axi relics B and C rotations but only a 14% of a particular relic.  I have no need for non-unvaulted relics for the most part as I consider have less than 20 of any kind of relic low and have more than 100 of certain Neo relics (I just can't stop getting them).  I am super glad it is not the usually relic farming haunts as I am burned out on those (I have a hard time playing Io more than once a week after farming oxium there).

 

Operation: Plague Star was months ago and I farmed the 'asterisk' out of it.  But that was months ago, I have long since used up my stockpile of 30+ Forma from it.   I didn't really bother with either of the Ghoul events as the first one happened at the same time as the acolytes so I focused more on that and the second time they came around I only wanted the war fan stance I didn't get the first time.  In fact, I was just thinking I needed to go back to plains as I want to build a few more Eidolon Lens and could use a recharge on the resources there.  I guess I could see someone being burned out on PoE if they had to catch'em all for everything that can be bought with standing (I am a long ways on most of it).

 

My plan is run through 3-6 bounties with a friend of mine who also needs a bunch of stuff from PoE/Earth.  We might even go one of us does the bounty while the other fishes/mines.  We both waited some time for DE it fix a bunch of the PoE issues (my friend should be getting Gara today) before jumping in too far.  We both have decent computers (nothing great, but I have never had an issue with Warframe) and amazing internet.  I kinda feel bad with players that can't really control the quality of the internet but less so with the quality of the computer (mine was built last year out a frankenstien's monster of refurbished and hand me down parts).

 

I am all for more focused farming of resources if DE thinks they keep their profits up.  I like archwing and think it would be another great place to farm oxium (which is just too rare).  I also wouldn't mind a little more focus on locations that drop certain relics more often instead all the _____ level relics.  I like the idea of unvualted relics being available in the wider start chart as making them exclusive to PoE smells of 'No one is playing PoE anymore.  What can we do to increase the player population there?'  However, if no changes happen I will be okay too as I said it feels like it takes less time to get the particular relics I am after the way it is now.

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I echo many of the sentiments listed above. This particular way to farm the unvaulted relics is not fun and is rather frustrating. Doing countless bounties for a chance at a specific relic is infuriating for a few reasons:

1. The plains don't run smoothly, bounties glitch out and fail, it requires a ton of jumping around from point A to point B, and is very time consuming. Nothing is more frustrating than running a 5 stage bounty and not getting what you are looking for, hiking it back to Cetus, and reloading into the plains. I mean you're talking 20 minutes absolutely wasted since most of the rewards in the bounties are garbage. 

2. The drop rates are awful. Some of this is attributed to RNG and that is fine, however, when you run 10 bounties and come out with 2-3 relics at the most, that's when it pisses people off. The amount of time it will require to farm up all the relics for those of us that need all 3 warframes and the weapons will certainly eclipse 2 months.

3. RNG for relic + RNG for prime part from the relic is extremely unforgiving. As you know, cracking relics takes time. You need quite a few relics to get the part you are looking for. The amount of relics we need to get these parts cannot be farmed in the plains. Period. It just takes too long not to mention the content isn't that fun. 

Suggestions:

1. Place the unvaulted relics in the normal drop tables where we farm regular relics (this may upset some but it is better than this plains garbage)

2. Like many others have said, place them in the void, derelict, or specific nodes. Keep them in the plains for those that want them there but add them elsewhere (and I don't mean syndicate packs). 

3. If DE is absolutely firm on keeping them in POE, make a specific bounty. Only relics drop from the bounty. Alternatively, and only as a last resort, put 4-5 relics in the drop table of existing bounties and increase the drop rates! 

Look, I think DE does a great job listening to the community and communicating with us (something that not all game devs do). However, at what point did the player base give you the inclination that this was a good idea or something they would enjoy? Plains were fine, but people don't really care for it that much. I don't mind going there every once in a while because it is a nice change up from time to time, but DO NOT lock specific items everyone wants in the plains. People will get angry and leave. I literally had a clan mate say, "This makes me wanna quit." Probably a little sarcastic but I think you can understand the frustration. 

DE is dope man, but some of the decisions are a little baffling. 

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already got 10x Neo E1 and 10x Meso F3 in around an hour..... this is going to have a huge impact on prices and believe me when i tell u this.... after this unvaulting, ember and frost will be worthless because everyone and their mama has 200 relics.

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