With these MR upgrades, they never stood a chance

[(PSN)YoKiwi__]

with these upcoming MR increases, new players will now have less variety in weapons. which is great. which pushes them to spend money. everybody wins, right?

[(PSN)Croewe]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)The_Cool-King1 said:

with these upcoming MR increases, new players will now have less variety in weapons. which is great. which pushes them to spend money. everybody wins, right?

It pushes them to upgrade MR. Take off your tinfoil hat. This is needed in the game as it adds a sense of progression which the game lacks as of now.

[Kracken]

And how spending money will help them ? MR locked items cant be bought with plat. 

[RoboticApplesWithLasers]

Upcoming MR increases? Can anybody link me to the source?

[Ninjamander]

8 minutes ago, RoboticApplesWithLasers said:

Upcoming MR increases? Can anybody link me to the source?

there : 

 

[(PSN)Talyx82]

The real question is how does this affect the ability to advance MR if items are more limited? I've found myself in a tough spot of being locked out of anything in my MR due to crafting materials I did not yet have access to, and thus making it difficult to advance my MR. Primarily an issue when not part of a big active clan where others can carry you and ferry you which should not be a requirement. Then, once hitting MR 10, it seems like you practically need to craft every possible item in the dojo and get every blueprint out there including primes to make it to new MRs anyway. Are they going to lessen the affinity curve for gaining MR?

Also, MR advancement encourages people to play things they do not enjoy playing. While the idea of expanding your horizons is noble and dandy, it also forces players to have experiences they will not enjoy because it is opposed to their play style, which is not what a game is about.

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by (PS4)Talyx82
Further detail

[Darkduprey]

Il y a 12 heures, (PS4)The_Cool-King1 a dit :

with these upcoming MR increases, new players will now have less variety in weapons. which is great. which pushes them to spend money. everybody wins, right?

"Less variety"?

You mean they will not be able anymore to pull something like a Boltor Prime after ten hours of gameplay, then use it to destroy the entire game without ever thinking about using an other weapon for anything else than MR?

No dude, actually it's MORE diversity.

Warframe is the very first game i've seen that allow players to have access to the best end game stuff super early in the progression.

And guess what?

Nobody as stoped playing any other game with a LOGICAL progression.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Darkduprey

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

8 minutes ago, Darkduprey said:

"Less variety"?

You mean they will not be able anymore to pull something like a Boltor Prime after ten hours of gameplay, then use it to destroy the entire game without ever thinking about using an other weapon for anything else than MR?

No dude, actually it's MORE diversity.

Warframe is the very first game i've seen that allow players to have access to the best end game stuff super early in the progression.

And guess what?

Nobody as stoped playing any other game with a LOGICAL progression.

Exactly, this change is going to foster diversity by encouraging them to level Mastery Rank.

I don't know why OP Seems to think it's geared at making more money, it's not going to work like that.  Nobody is being forced to spend money to advance. DE isn't stupid, they're obviously going to put an adequate amount of weapons into each tier so people can do it free....

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Exactly, this change is going to foster diversity by encouraging them to level Mastery Rank.

I don't know why OP Seems to think it's geared at making more money, it's not going to work like that.  Nobody is being forced to spend money to advance. DE isn't stupid, they're obviously going to put an adequate amount of weapons into each tier so people can do it free....

Because every PA item is mr unlocked?

Just a guess but i think thats OPs reason.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Because every PA item is mr unlocked?

Just a guess but i think thats OPs reason.

Well it's always been that way - so the reality is this new mastery system wouldn't change a thing.  

If we were really using the argument that they used unlocked MR on PA to encourage sales... well then they've been doing it for 4 years already. Nothing new.  

The reality though is they leave Prime Access stuff unlocked to MR because low level players would flip their lids if they bought a PA then found out they couldn't use what was inside their $80-$100 pack... common sense really.   Since PA is purchased outside of the in-game market, they have no way to do a mastery check first like they do with in-market items.  It would only be a matter of time before some MR3 decided he really liked the game and bought a PA... only to find out its all locked... and so yeah,it's all unlocked for a good reason.  

Edited February 7, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[Tsukinoki]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Talyx82 said:

The real question is how does this affect the ability to advance MR if items are more limited?

Why does everyone seem forget that frames, companions, sentinels, and sentinel weapons are all a thing that give MR?

Sure there will be less guns available per level....but please point me towards MR locked Frames, & Sentinels?

Further DE hasn't released any details on Melee weapons or what they are planning to do with those but regardless there will still be tons of gear available at each MR to hit the next one without any problems.

All this means is that new players won't get the best guns right out of the gate (and they shouldn't), and that they'll have to maybe build a few sentinels and such, which I really don't see as being a problem.

[(PSN)Talyx82]

26 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Why does everyone seem forget that frames, companions, sentinels, and sentinel weapons are all a thing that give MR?

Sure there will be less guns available per level....but please point me towards MR locked Frames, & Sentinels?

Further DE hasn't released any details on Melee weapons or what they are planning to do with those but regardless there will still be tons of gear available at each MR to hit the next one without any problems.

All this means is that new players won't get the best guns right out of the gate (and they shouldn't), and that they'll have to maybe build a few sentinels and such, which I really don't see as being a problem.

I'm not sure that you have a point with this comment. There are far more weapons than sentinels, companions, and frames combined. And when it comes to progression, it isn't like you have access to very many frames early on. In fact, they are the hardest things to obtain for early ranks. Companions you might get 1 since you need plat to really do any more or lots of farming for kavats which really won't come until much later. Sentinels are extremely pricey for an early player. You get the Taxon early on, and you might get another by purchasing blueprints for 100k credits. But that is a lot for the first several ranks. In addition, the odds of having the materials again is extremely low. I don't think most people remember how awful progression is until you hit at least Saturn, which is actually a chore with the junctions anymore. I only recall and experienced the changes having leveled 3 accounts. Without the ferry from other players, you aren't getting those things when you need them. 

There are frames that are MR locked, but they are currently all primes (I remember when rhino was MR locked). Indirectly, you also have the following mastery locks for frames due to quest progression limitations, bypassed by plat of course:

Equinox, Trinity, Loki, Gara, Limbo, Atlas, Mesa, Octavia, Hydroid, Inaros, Saryn, Nidus, Mirage, Harrow, Chroma, Titania. That is not an insignificant number of limitations based on MR...

[(PSN)Talyx82]

 

Quote

All this means is that new players won't get the best guns right out of the gate (and they shouldn't), and that they'll have to maybe build a few sentinels and such, which I really don't see as being a problem.

So you are also recommending that people spend their precious plat on sentinel slots just so they can rank up instead of frames and weapons like most people would do? I get what you are saying, but I think it creates some unintended consequences that hurt the ability to progress effectively and will frustrate quite a number of new players. I already know too many people who couldn't make it past the first major quest in the game (which I still consider a tutorial) and quit because it keeps them from getting to the parts of the game they want for too long.

[Eljureo]

This is great. No more prime weapons at lvl 2 and then sticking with same weapon to the end.

But best of all it makes progression weapons decent.

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Well it's always been that way - so the reality is this new mastery system wouldn't change a thing.  

If we were really using the argument that they used unlocked MR on PA to encourage sales... well then they've been doing it for 4 years already. Nothing new.  

The reality though is they leave Prime Access stuff unlocked to MR because low level players would flip their lids if they bought a PA then found out they couldn't use what was inside their $80-$100 pack... common sense really.   Since PA is purchased outside of the in-game market, they have no way to do a mastery check first like they do with in-market items.  It would only be a matter of time before some MR3 decided he really liked the game and bought a PA... only to find out its all locked... and so yeah,it's all unlocked for a good reason.  

Yeah thats true but now the weapons get even more limited, what can heavily encurage spendings.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Yeah thats true but now the weapons get even more limited, what can heavily encurage spendings.

Not really.  There is no more incentive than before to encourage spending, you're creating a problem in your mind that simply doesn't exist.

If somebody is going to buy a Prime Access they're going to do it regardless.  The two things aren't remotely correlated and there's absolutely no evidence otherwise.  People mostly buy prime access so they don't have to farm for parts - not because of the available weapons are limiting.  

If they really feel the selection is limited, then they'll use all the available weapons and move up to the next tier of weapons to open up a bigger selection - you know, like 99% of the players the last 5 years of the game have.   

Considering there's some near 200-300 weapons in the game, I doubt they'll ever feel so limited that they feel DE is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to spend money.

Besides this change is coming with something awesome and almost unheard in Warframe: BUFFS.  They even have it written in the article - things in all MR tiers are now being rebalanced to suit those tiers - it's an awesome and welcomed change.  Even MR 0-3 weapons are getting buffs.

In fact these buffs will make people feel LESS like they need to spend money because the weapons they're using are better at all ranks.  They won't feel as much of an urgency to hop on the meta when even low MR weapons are performing better.  

Edited February 7, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[Thrymm]

The variety, especially once things have been acquired, is massive.  There are so many great upgrades coming in that I don't even know which weapons I'll decide I want to stick with.

Does it make a person spend money......eh, I dunno.  It'd behoove a person to have lots of slots anyway, and they cost plat.  The weapons themselves really don't, unless you've decided to buy the prime access or something---which I've done, on occasion, solely to avoid the already present grind associated with those items, I sure as hell didn't do it for stuff I anticipate to be mastery fodder.

A person can also much more reliably discard weapons and save themself slots, incidentally.  If you're ever wondering if a weapon is going to get buffed to meta levels, you now get to see that it is intended, for realsies, to be a 1-3 or 4-6 mastery rank weapon, or some such, and because of this know that it isn't realistically intended to get buffs that cause it to perform at the top level.  Once everything is updated there is a whole lot more clarity as to what will remain mastery fodder and what is actually worth developing.

Even if it is a better business model, so what?  Pony up the five or ten or twenty bucks and get a handful of slots already.  This isn't exactly flaunting a Ferrari in front of homeless people here, you don't have to whale out and blow a whole paycheck on the thing to get some value out of it, and "I want to spend zero dollars on your product" is hardly a compelling position to be in while pretending to be a customer with valuable input.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Not really.  There is no more incentive than before to encourage spending, you're creating a problem in your mind that simply doesn't exist.

If somebody is going to buy a Prime Access they're going to do it regardless.  The two things aren't remotely correlated and there's absolutely no evidence otherwise.  People mostly buy prime access so they don't have to farm for parts - not because of the available weapons are limiting.  

If they really feel the selection is limited, then they'll use all the available weapons and move up to the next tier of weapons to open up a bigger selection - you know, like 99% of the players the last 5 years of the game have.   

Considering there's some near 200-300 weapons in the game, I doubt they'll ever feel so limited that they feel DE is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to spend money.

Besides this change is coming with something awesome and almost unheard in Warframe: BUFFS.  They even have it written in the article - things in all MR tiers are now being rebalanced to suit those tiers - it's an awesome and welcomed change.  Even MR 0-3 weapons are getting buffs.

In fact these buffs will make people feel LESS like they need to spend money because the weapons they're using are better at all ranks.  They won't feel as much of an urgency to hop on the meta when even low MR weapons are performing better.  

You dont need to argue with me, i disagree with OP. Im trying to find out what could be his reasons to think this.

[(PSN)atpbx]

There needed to be something done.

 

Mastery rank progression is all over the place at the moment.

 

I am a day one PS4 player and MR...... 21 i think, simply becuase there are weapons i cant even be bothered to build and strap to my character and go sit in Hydron for 20 minutes just to rank up and melt.

If a weapon is fundamentally useless, and lets be brutally homest here, a lot of the old guns (and indeed on some occasion even new ones) are then i am just not going to bother with it.

If they are very lesst capable, then i will use them as rhey were intended until they are ranked up, then bin them.

With these changes players will have to use all or most of the weapons in an MR tier to progress, it focuses their activity and attention rather than dangling the next big thing under their nose.

 

[Urabask]

On 2/6/2018 at 5:06 PM, (PS4)Talyx82 said:

The real question is how does this affect the ability to advance MR if items are more limited? I've found myself in a tough spot of being locked out of anything in my MR due to crafting materials I did not yet have access to, and thus making it difficult to advance my MR. Primarily an issue when not part of a big active clan where others can carry you and ferry you which should not be a requirement. Then, once hitting MR 10, it seems like you practically need to craft every possible item in the dojo and get every blueprint out there including primes to make it to new MRs anyway. Are they going to lessen the affinity curve for gaining MR?

Also, MR advancement encourages people to play things they do not enjoy playing. While the idea of expanding your horizons is noble and dandy, it also forces players to have experiences they will not enjoy because it is opposed to their play style, which is not what a game is about.

 

You can hit MR 14 getting all the easy star chart frames/easy quest frames and the market blueprint weapons.  If you get some sentinels/archwings/archwing weapons/prime items/invasion weapons it'll go even faster.  You shouldn't even need to touch the dojo although there are plenty of clans that'll give you an  invite and not expect much out of you.  IMO the real problem is that they locked a lot of the best weapons at higher MR so you're going to end up slogging through the star chart waiting to get to MR 10-12.  If anything the resources it takes to upgrade some of the mandatory weapon mods and the gap in effectiveness caused by not having some primed mods is more of a problem than MR.

57 minutes ago, (PS4)atpbx said:

I am a day one PS4 player and MR...... 21 i think, simply becuase there are weapons i cant even be bothered to build and strap to my character and go sit in Hydron for 20 minutes just to rank up and melt.

Yeah, my brother was MR 18 for the longest time because of this.  I started playing October and hit MR 22 just because I'm more willing to sit in hydron/grind out mutagen masses.

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Urabask

[Ham_Grenabe]

On 2/6/2018 at 3:53 PM, Kracken said:

And how spending money will help them ? MR locked items cant be bought with plat. 

Items in bundles and Prime Access are unlocked. Straight weapon purchases are still restricted, however.

In any case, new players will have a different, and perhaps tougher, hill to climb time than veterans did, so I guess that's good, given how many threads complain about how "these noobs can get everything so easy, why, back in my day everything wasn't spoon fed to me." 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Ham_Grenabe

[(PSN)Talyx82]

Quote

You can hit MR 14 getting all the easy star chart frames/easy quest frames and the market blueprint weapons.  If you get some sentinels/archwings/archwing weapons/prime items/invasion weapons it'll go even faster.  You shouldn't even need to touch the dojo although there are plenty of clans that'll give you an  invite and not expect much out of you.  IMO the real problem is that they locked a lot of the best weapons at higher MR so you're going to end up slogging through the star chart waiting to get to MR 10-12.  If anything the resources it takes to upgrade some of the mandatory weapon mods and the gap in effectiveness caused by not having some primed mods is more of a problem than MR.

That seems unlikely, since on one account I am still MR 12 and struggling to hit 13 after getting all market BPs, and a good chunk of clan bps (38/64ish it looks like at quick count). I've not done every frame up to this point because I mostly have no interest in farming for their parts on one level 50+ times, but I've done 15 of them. Given that warframes count for double what weapons do, that leaves 26 weapons I should have had to grind from clan in place of 13 frames, assuming I got every single frame. I've exceeded that and am still MR 12.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

The MR locks also don't apply to awarded weapons.

Example: Dex weapons are getting a MR increase but a new player can still unlock the weapon via Alert/Log-in and use it without meeting the MR requirements.

Same as Log-in weapons aka bypassing the MR requirement.

Free Vectis and Heatsword codes also bypass the MR requirement. (Same for twitch drops like Vectis Prime)

So new players can still get access to weapons (with pre-installed catalyst and free slot) to carry them through most of the game because they take minimal effort (investment) to be better than a freshly crafted weapon.

Edited February 15, 2018 by (PS4)MrNishi

[(PSN)Talyx82]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

The MR locks also don't apply to awarded weapons.

Example: Dex weapons are getting a MR increase but a new player can still unlock the weapon via Alert/Log-in and use it without meeting the MR requirements.

Same as Log-in weapons aka bypassing the MR requirement.

Free Vectis and Heatsword codes also bypass the MR requirement. (Same for twitch drops like Vectis Prime)

So new players can still get access to weapons (with pre-installed catalyst and free slot) to carry them through most of the game because they take minimal effort (investment) to be better than a freshly crafted weapon.

New players are highly unlikely to get any of those:

Twitch prime, not going to be very common for many new players because if they aren't spending money on plat, they likely aren't spending money on a subscription.

Alerts for Dex weapons, nigh impossible to have access to enough of the map to get to the randomized places until you reach a point in the game where you no longer need it but you are gated from getting there due to MR lock which you can't achieve because you can't get that friggin alert on Sedna because you don't have the MR to get there.

Finally, by the time you hit the first log in weapon, you have played 100 days. So you are saying that it is reasonable for players to wait 100 days in order to get Azima so they can actually complete the map and gain MR effectively?

These defenses are all highly illogical. Again, most players posting here no longer have any idea what the new player experience is like.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

On 2/14/2018 at 10:23 AM, (PS4)Talyx82 said:

That seems unlikely, since on one account I am still MR 12 and struggling to hit 13 after getting all market BPs, and a good chunk of clan bps (38/64ish it looks like at quick count). I've not done every frame up to this point because I mostly have no interest in farming for their parts on one level 50+ times, but I've done 15 of them. Given that warframes count for double what weapons do, that leaves 26 weapons I should have had to grind from clan in place of 13 frames, assuming I got every single frame. I've exceeded that and am still MR 12.

MR13 total affinity required is 422,500

Not including any Warframe, Kubrow, Kavat, or Star Chart node affinity there is 450,000 affinity in marketplace between BP's and pre-crafted weapons for credits (27k affinity is AW BP's which if subtracted would still be 423,000 affinity which would be MR13)

If you have another 38 Dojo weapons that is another 114k affinity (423k + 114k = 534k which is almost MR14 at 562k requirement) Again, not including any Warframe, Kubrow, Kavat, or Star-chart node affinity.

29 Primary Weapon BP's (87k affinity)

4 Pre-built for Credits Primary Weapons (3 MK-1s & Regular Braton) (12k Affinity)

4 AW Guns BP's (12k Affinity)

5 AW Melee BP's  (15k Affinity)

34 Secondary Weapon BP's (102k Affinity)

6 Pre-built for Credits Secondary Weapons (2 MK-1s, Lato, Lex, Sicarus, & AkLato) (18k affinity)

48 Melee Weapon BP's (Skana is a BP weapon if not chosen as starter Melee)* (144k affinity)

2 Pre-built for Credits Melee weapons (4k affinity)

6 Marketplace Sentinels (6 Senitnel weapons is 18k affinity & 6 Sentinels is 36k affinity for 54k total affinity)

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by (PS4)MrNishi