Degradation of farming process.

[-Trey-]

At first we had void keys, their limited amount made people maximize their value and do long def/surv missions. Gradually increasing dificulty was engaging and fun, combined with a bit of risk making you decide if it's better to quit at 60 waves or push it to 80.

Next, during last ember unvaulting we had 20 waves hydron. There was no reason to do anything more than that, so people just did 20 waves for that I think 5%~ chance of obtaining Axi E1. It was far easier and became about repetition more than anything else.

That brings us to what we have today, join a bounty do first mission for that 20-50% chance at your relics and hit abort to cetus. Sometimes if next mission is short you could consider doing that too. Difficulty doesn't exist and chance of obtaining relics is extremely high. Even if you was to stay and do full bounty, you are 1 shotting all those low level enemies. Soon even more so after weapon buffs.

Where is the challenge and fun ? Where did it go ? Will it even come back ?

 

[Atekron]

...so, you are crying because there's not enough grind? 0.0

Edited February 7, 2018 by Atekron

[YandereWaifu]

contrary to popular belief some people like the grind, im just kinda salty the relics only come from the plains, my potato pc can only handle so much XD

[-Trey-]

It's more about triviality of it that we landed on currently. I could probably record macro that joins bounty, runs in circles shooting in random directions and quits to cetus after 5 min. Put it on loop and go do something else. That's how trivial and unengaging it became.

[rune_me]

4 minutes ago, -Trey- said:

It's more about triviality of it that we landed on currently. I could probably record macro that joins bounty, runs in circles shooting in random directions and quits to cetus after 5 min. Put it on loop and go do something else. That's how trivial and unengaging it became.

You can join a 60 wave defense mission and hide in a corner while your teammates do the hard work as well. This is no more or less trivial than before. If you join a bounty you are free to participate in it and help out your team, just as you always were with long endless missions. If you choose not to engage in the game, then naturally it becomes unengaging. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by rune_me

[Giantconch]

I wont be like the other people posting above me and actually read and understand what you are saying, and I would agree.

 

Before you would push on in the void because there was a reason to. You wouldnt just stay to 20 waves and extract. The grind back then was pushing longer and stressing your gear and endurance to get more rewards. Nowadays the grind is "walk in, stay for 3 minutes, leave, repeat" with no increase in difficulty, and no incentive to stay longer.

 

I get that and agree. The "grind" today isnt about endurance, testing yourself, or anything like that. The grind now is just "how many times can you repeat the exact same thing"

 

Sadly, thats probably never going to come back. Endurance for the sake of endurance is pointless if theres no reward at the end of that endurance. There should be incentive to keep going, to keep trying, to push just a little further, all for that extra bit of loot, but there isn't, and I see no sign of it coming back save for maybe with the new Eidolons coming up, but even that is debateable.

 

Todays grind is bad. For grind to be good it would need to balance out between staying longer and getting rewarded accordingly. That seems quite impossible to pull off on the plains, since theres no type of endurance run that can happen there. Its all just "Walk in roflstomp enemies walk out repeat until you are bored to tears"

[-Trey-]

Just now, rune_me said:

You can join a 60 wave defense mission and hide in a corner while your teammates do the hard work as well. This is no more or less trivial than before. If you join a bounty you are free to participate in it and help out your team, just as you always were with long endless missions. If you choose not to engage in the game, then naturally it becomes engaging. 

In 60 wave defense you have scaling difficulty, enemies take longer to kill and you feel them when they shoot at you. There is nothing engaging about killing 1 low level guy with 1 shot or finding 3 caches that you already know all possible locations of then aborting to cetus.

[rune_me]

Just now, -Trey- said:

In 60 wave defense you have scaling difficulty, enemies take longer to kill and you feel them when they shoot at you. There is nothing engaging about killing 1 low level guy with 1 shot or finding 3 caches that you already know all possible locations of then aborting to cetus.

Different people different strokes. I hate the idea of 60 wave defense missions or 2 hour long survival. Just staying in one single mission for so long is, to me, about as dumb and mind numbing as it gets. By the 15 minutes mark, I'm ready to get out and play another mission type.

[An8rchy]

3 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Different people different strokes. I hate the idea of 60 wave defense missions or 2 hour long survival. Just staying in one single mission for so long is, to me, about as dumb and mind numbing as it gets. By the 15 minutes mark, I'm ready to get out and play another mission type.

old void didnt had this problem, you could do a 5 wave/5 min defence/survival and leave, OR try your luck for more time more rewards
Old void gave us a good risk vs reward situation, which in my opinion made the game fun 

[Atekron]

13 minutes ago, Giantconch said:

I wont be like the other people posting above me and actually read and understand what you are saying, and I would agree.

 

Before you would push on in the void because there was a reason to. You wouldnt just stay to 20 waves and extract. The grind back then was pushing longer and stressing your gear and endurance to get more rewards. Nowadays the grind is "walk in, stay for 3 minutes, leave, repeat" with no increase in difficulty, and no incentive to stay longer.

 

I get that and agree. The "grind" today isnt about endurance, testing yourself, or anything like that. The grind now is just "how many times can you repeat the exact same thing"

 

Sadly, thats probably never going to come back. Endurance for the sake of endurance is pointless if theres no reward at the end of that endurance. There should be incentive to keep going, to keep trying, to push just a little further, all for that extra bit of loot, but there isn't, and I see no sign of it coming back save for maybe with the new Eidolons coming up, but even that is debateable.

 

Todays grind is bad. For grind to be good it would need to balance out between staying longer and getting rewarded accordingly. That seems quite impossible to pull off on the plains, since theres no type of endurance run that can happen there. Its all just "Walk in roflstomp enemies walk out repeat until you are bored to tears"

I wont be like this guy saying: "Back in my days...", but I would like if DE did some kind of endurance content, with proper rewards of course

[peterc3]

3 minutes ago, An8rchy said:

old void didnt had this problem, you could do a 5 wave/5 min defence/survival and leave, OR try your luck for more time more rewards
Old void gave us a good risk vs reward situation, which in my opinion made the game fun 

There was nothing but garbage on the A rotation, why would you have ever burned a key for it? There was literally no point in doing anything but at least a full C, I don't think I was ever in a group that went less than 20 mins. This is a rose colored glasses view of tedious BS that nobody really wants to return to, they just want Prime parts thrown at them in the same quantity for the minimum input.

[Miser_able]

30 minutes ago, -Trey- said:

It's more about triviality of it that we landed on currently. I could probably record macro that joins bounty, runs in circles shooting in random directions and quits to cetus after 5 min. Put it on loop and go do something else. That's how trivial and unengaging it became.

Until you know, you get banned. 

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, Atekron said:

...so, you are crying because there's not enough grind? 0.0

Reducing grind =/= healthy. While many players are very excited when DE makes things easier to obtain, it slowly kills many Veterans' reason to play. Specters of the Rail introduced fissures which many players loved as the price of prime parts hit the floor very quickly. On the other hand, missions were cake, and the "end-game" of farming Prime Parts was a level 20 exterminate on Venus that you could steamroll with your eyes closed. Bounties are not my idea of engaging content, and many others agree. Until DE adds meaningful grind that takes a while to progress (Focus failed at this), than we will be a loop where some players love easy street, and high tiered players get bored quickly.

[Atekron]

3 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Reducing grind =/= healthy. While many players are very excited when DE makes things easier to obtain, it slowly kills many Veterans' reason to play. Specters of the Rail introduced fissures which many players loved as the price of prime parts hit the floor very quickly. On the other hand, missions were cake, and the "end-game" of farming Prime Parts was a level 20 exterminate on Venus that you could steamroll with your eyes closed. Bounties are not my idea of engaging content, and many others agree. Until DE adds meaningful grind that takes a while to progress (Focus failed at this), than we will be a loop where some players love easy street, and high tiered players get bored quickly.

reasonable arguments, but generally people crying that game is too grindy

[JohnKable]

21 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Reducing grind =/= healthy. While many players are very excited when DE makes things easier to obtain, it slowly kills many Veterans' reason to play. Specters of the Rail introduced fissures which many players loved as the price of prime parts hit the floor very quickly. On the other hand, missions were cake, and the "end-game" of farming Prime Parts was a level 20 exterminate on Venus that you could steamroll with your eyes closed. Bounties are not my idea of engaging content, and many others agree. Until DE adds meaningful grind that takes a while to progress (Focus failed at this), than we will be a loop where some players love easy street, and high tiered players get bored quickly.

+1000

Old void was trash. but was satisfying to get to wave 80 even if you didnt get the parts you were after. But when you got those parts the satisfaction was double because you deserved those parts.
Even if you did with some "exploit" team was still satisfying because every member worked hard to reach the right setup to do so.
Now its only about stockpiling relics and run them when there is capture or exterminate fissure, so you can run 3 in 10 minutes. Ember or not.
If, atleast axy relics were agains lvl 150 there would be the satisfaction of getting a prime only 70% of the playerbase can get, and a good and stable market share for it.
i got away from the game for some time, and missed the latest FOUR prime releases. with like 100pl and few random capture runs now i have almost all the stuff i missed except for few common parts that someday will drop in another random capture/exterminate.

Maybe with the new eidolons there will something for veterans that enjoyed doing endurance runs,but probably no. Wont even talk about raids, 20 mins of a garbage mission that bus out frequently, that you can do only with experienced people and that has a so bad time-reward rate its not worth doing it unless you actually like that.

[rune_me]

1 hour ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Reducing grind =/= healthy. While many players are very excited when DE makes things easier to obtain, it slowly kills many Veterans' reason to play. Specters of the Rail introduced fissures which many players loved as the price of prime parts hit the floor very quickly. On the other hand, missions were cake, and the "end-game" of farming Prime Parts was a level 20 exterminate on Venus that you could steamroll with your eyes closed. Bounties are not my idea of engaging content, and many others agree. Until DE adds meaningful grind that takes a while to progress (Focus failed at this), than we will be a loop where some players love easy street, and high tiered players get bored quickly.

I'm not saying I don't want more challenging gameplay. I'm saying I don't want to have to do 80 waves defense or 2 hour long survival to get meaningful rewards. I don't love easy missions. I love quick in-and-out-and-be-done-with-it missions (right now I can practically hear my ex rolling her eyes and going "that explains a lot"). 

[Kyronz]

The addition of the plains ghoul event is just piling on more salt.   They are actively screwing with players, it's kind of sadistic, I suspect they have just said to hell with the game.

[Oreades]

All things considered there is literally nothing stopping you from going and spending protracted amounts of time in endless mission types. 

If it is something you really enjoy then it shouldn't be anything where you need DE to force you (or anyone else for that matter) into it. 

[Isca]

What I'd love to see is something like endless missions where after every 20 minute rotation the reward for staying was increased, e.g. the drop chance of a rare mod could increase cumulatively, or an increased chance of a rarer item being rolled from your relic in a fissure mission. Even if it was only an extra 1% chance added each cycle, and it could capped out at +20% chance or whatever. It'd be a nice way to reward people for pushing the boundaries. As it is, there's never any real incentive to play longer.

[mikami666134]

Endurance runs is dead, we just have to face the fact. Even if one is to deliberately try to play on maps like MOT, they'll just find campers with sliding macros.

Ask them nicely to not camp? Off to extraction we go~

No use beating around a dead corpse, endurance runs is no longer a thing and most of the playerbase seemed fine with it. We just have to give up, rather than torturing ourselves with boredom.

[FlyingDice]

I do miss sitting in T4S/D for an hour+ and getting to the point where any mistake is instantly lethal. You can kinda sorta do the same thing with relic endless, but it often feels wasteful if you don't have an absolute mound of trash relics you're willing to crack unupgraded.

[AzureTerra]

Rotate your crops

[Talinthis]

Too bad you can't get duplicate bounty rewards soon. It sucked sometimes but it was great getting 4/5 or 5/5 relics