Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited Part 2

[An8rchy]

Just now, Fate_Epsylon said:

 

I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling this way about Ember. (tbh, I thought I was gonna be ridiculed to death about it. 

I'm not asking for her to be relevant or OP, I just want her to have a reason/place to be played when it comes to Warframe. (And a positive one at that.)

Dont worry, i want her to be good too. shes my go to frame, either her or oberon for me. 

[Fate_Epsylon]

1 minute ago, KubrowTamer said:

 Except it was the people who actually proposed whe change to WOF from overheat and it is the people who currently run it. 

How ironic is it that now DE's getting a whole bunch of proposals now and they're all getting ignored.

 

And further more... Proof? When overheat was being removed people were PISSED and have been begging for Overheat to return ever since.

[(PSN)savory-spice]

On 2/7/2018 at 11:37 AM, Aimop95 said:

I like the energy increase on Mag and the augment changes look good too, that said, would it be to much to ask for a stronger vacuum on Magnetize? As it is currently, enemies like Chargers and Ancients can charge past a Magnetized enemy, not always consistently, but enough that casting a Magnetize on an enemy in a hallway isn't a guaranteed lockdown of that hallway. Furthermore, Pull still is counterintuitive when used on a group of enemies in Magnetize. Generally you want to avoid casting pull on a Magnetize bubble full of enemies as all but the original target of Magnetize will be yanked out of the bubble. That said, does using Crush while having a Magnetized enemy in the Crush radius only give the extra 1500 damage to the original target of Crush? Or is that damage spread to all targets inside the Magnetize bubble?

What if casting Pull on an enemy being affected by a Magnetize field had a slightly different effect?  Instead of pulling toward you, it would just add a pulse of Pull towards the target, or the original target of Magnetize?  Then the effects could work together, as you would do with "real" magnetic powers.  Any magnetism-wielding person adding a bit of pull to an existing warped field would know how to keep themselves from working against their own powers?

[jiminatorx]

They showed what to expect from ember in the stream last week. She ran out of energy and died 4 seconds later.  Even with energy enemies outside the decreased radius will be able to target her. WoF for me has never been about damage, it has been about using firequake for survival. You can say to mod for range and such, but there is only so much you can do while still having her effective.

[BornWithTeeth]

11 minutes ago, KubrowTamer said:

I'm just waiting for the ember change to happen. Watch it be amazing n everyone here finaly stops with the unneeded flameraging. "See what I did there?"

But please act like adults people. Besides we don't even know the new WOF stats yet so none of these complaints have any flooring to stand on. Let the release it then test it. It's not like it can't be tweeked after the fact if there is a problem. All un-merited complaining is gonna do is push something back and ruin it more. It happens every time and it seems like this playerbase never learns this.

DE iterate extremely slowly. If a bad change goes through, it will take them more than a year to revisit it.

 

Also, if it goes through and guts Ember, leaving her fragile and underpowered, will you then speak up and say ‘Ok, the nerfing was too much, Ember needs tweaks to be properly functional,’?

 

I have my doubts.

[Fate_Epsylon]

6 minutes ago, jiminatorx said:

They showed what to expect from ember in the stream last week. She ran out of energy and died 4 seconds later.  Even with energy enemies outside the decreased radius will be able to target her. WoF for me has never been about damage, it has been about using firequake for survival.

This.

And keep in mind, people only starting using ember's WoF for CC AFTER Firequake was introduced to the game. (And that was... (I think) a year or two after WoF was changed to what it is now.)

So imagine how people felt about WoF back then.

[TeCoolTenno]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

It might be easier to just survive, but I play her to defend. She is my best defense frame, and ember was my best survival frame. both are now being nerfed into the ground so that there is no more good CC in those particular areas.

21 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

Trinity: Healer

Rhino: self-defense

Frost: defense, but not actual CC

Equinox: like the casual player would even have because of how BS she is to obtain

Nova: only slows or speeds up the targets. Is closer, but does not completely control.

Mag: trash frame that really needs to be looked at

Saryn: only really shines in Defense, and is not fun in the slightest to play. she is literally spam 1 and 2 to win. 

CC does not necessarily mean they just fill defensive roles.

Nyx, Ivara, Loki. In order from optimal in full squad to optimal in solo

Ivara in particular with max range (my go to build when I don't solo, I can take overextended) and duration can replace Equinox because she has the same rest spam schtick but with even more like cloak arrow and prowl to drop aggro on literally anyone. Solo wise just listen to people talk about 6 hour survival

Nyx as a CC frame is obvious. And no, enemies will not shoot you or your allies during chaos unless you use 4 or are in single-dagger-melee range (hence build range). Unlike radiation proc she forces enemies to re-target, and all enemies have higher threat than allies. For people in melee range and in danger, single target mind control and absorb (especially with assimilate) allow you to stop enemy fire more reliably than any WoF spam nyx wannabes. And it's more efficient than banshee.

Loki is invisible and has radial disarm. His solo's good and decoy's nice as well.

[Fate_Epsylon]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

DE iterate extremely slowly. If a bad change goes through, it will take them more than a year to revisit it.

 

Also, if it goes through and guts Ember, leaving her fragile and underpowered, will you then speak up and say ‘Ok, the nerfing was too much, Ember needs tweaks to be properly functional,’?

 

I have my doubts.

You literally took the words right out of my mouth.

[BornWithTeeth]

I mean...Balance is not about whether a Warframe can physically carry an Arca Plasmor. It’s about whether a skilled player can use that Warframe to last a couple of rotations at a high level survival, and put in a strong showing in a cycle of Sortie.

[-Kritias-]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb Upright1:

What are you talking about? They're not changing the armor buff on vex armor.

That would be great but i don´t believe it.

This is what [DE]Connor wrote:

Q: What is the new formula for damage and armor calculation?
A: Instead of [(Base * Mods) * Vex Armor], it is now [Base * (Vex + Mods)], like all other damage boosting abilities.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, TeCoolTenno said:

Nyx, Ivara, Loki. In order from optimal in full squad to optimal in solo

Ivara in particular with max range (my go to build when I don't solo, I can take overextended) and duration can replace Equinox because she has the same rest spam schtick but with even more like cloak arrow and prowl to drop aggro on literally anyone.

Nyx as a CC frame is obvious. And no, enemies will not shoot you or your allies unless you use 4 or are in single-dagger-melee range (hence build range). Unlike radiation proc she forces enemies to re-target, and all enemies have higher threat than allies. For people in melee range and in danger, single target mind control and absorb (especially with assimilate) allow you to stop enemy fire more reliably than any WoF spam nyx wannabes. And it's more efficient than banshee.

Loki is invisible and has radial disarm. His solo's good and decoy's nice as well.

Tbh,  I need to revisit my Nyx. As for Loki and Ivara, I just completely derped and forgot they had abilities that were beneficial to more than just Stealth missions, XD. I play them for Spy and Rescue just a little too much, haha.

[Haeen]

29 minutes ago, An8rchy said:

she requires to not be played and trashed ?

So...buffing her other abilities to assist in compensating on her 4 is leaving her trashed?  I cannot see the need for hyperbole here.

[An8rchy]

1 minute ago, Aegni said:

So...buffing her other abilities to assist in compensating on her 4 is leaving her trashed?  I cannot see the need for hyperbole here.

fireball and fire blast didnt got buff... like at all

If u want the napalm on fireball you have to charge it, which cost more energy, on the video showing it, it used 45 energy for a charged fireball, thats almost 1/4 of base energy
and firebal is a nieche use that wont scale cuz its fire dmg.

so yeah, they didnt got buffed 

[Fate_Epsylon]

17 minutes ago, KubrowTamer said:

 Except it was the people who actually proposed whe change to WOF from overheat and it is the people who currently run it. 

Just looked at your join date.

You weren't even AROUND when they changed Overheat to WoF. Overheat was removed shortly after her Prime Access debut. (I believe this was around December 2013? I think?)

You came three years AFTER it happened.

And just an FYI: 

They changed Overheat to Accelerant.

WoF was changed work completely different than it does now. (visual effects too)

 

Please... If you're going to spit out nonsense like that, you REALLY need to fact check first.

Please note: This isn't meant to be a jab in the form of elitism or anything. It was just blatantly obvious that you CLEARLY don't know what's going on and just wanted to say something that makes utterly no sense...

[BornWithTeeth]

6 minutes ago, Aegni said:

So...buffing her other abilities to assist in compensating on her 4 is leaving her trashed?  I cannot see the need for hyperbole here.

The buffs to her other abilities are gimmicks. Adding a charge function to her (1) is kinda nice, but it’s energy expensive (we literally saw it cost nearly 50 energy) and all it does is add some area damage, expressed as Heat damage. Adding a Heat damage buff to shots fired through the ring of flames is kinda cool, but again, nothing that Flash Accelerant doesn’t already do, in a better way, and using the ring requires you to be relatively stationary, i.e. dead.

 

I get that you like the sound of the changes, but gimmicks is all they are, and they do not compensate for the loss of survivability from her CC.

 

I also encourage you to have a quick trawl through the wiki and read through the articles on damage types, damage bonuses, Warframe ability scaling and base damage effects, and how enemy armour scaling works. The short version of all of that is that the ‘buffs’ DE are adding will be negligible unless they start adding up to multiple tens of thousands of points of additional Heat damage output.

[Haeen]

2 minutes ago, An8rchy said:

fireball and fire blast didnt got buff... like at all

If u want the napalm on fireball you have to charge it, which cost more energy, on the video showing it, it used 45 energy for a charged fireball, thats almost 1/4 of base energy
and firebal is a nieche use that wont scale cuz its fire dmg.

so yeah, they didnt got buffed 

I think you're not looking at it based on its use and you're focused on the numbers too much.

If you napalm a doorway and it is affected by duration you can lock out an area.  The fire will cause panic and since it is ranged, reduce the need for ember to get close. Hydroid functions similarly and it works very well for him as a CC caster frame.

Fireblast gets a volt shield kind of buff, in conjunction with her 2 the damage can reach good levels of damage.

@BornWithTeeth  I don't agree, I don't believe it to be a gimmick because Hydroid functions similarly.  You're locking an entire doorway out and saying "You can't come here or else you'll burn and be CC'ed"  No one complains about hydroids energy ost because of streamline and fleeting expertise existing.

Let alone that having her 3 function that way removes the need to use flash accelerant, savg you a mod slot.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

Just looked at your join date.

You weren't even AROUND when they changed Overheat to WoF. Overheat was removed shortly after her Prime Access debut. (I believe this was around December 2013? I think?)

You came three years AFTER it happened.

 

Join date of the forums does not mean anything! Why do I have to keep telling people this?! ....sorry, just really aggravating.

[An8rchy]

Just now, Aegni said:

I think you're not looking at it based on its use and you're focused on the numbers too much.

If you napalm a doorway and it is affected by duration you can lock out an area.  The fire will cause panic and since it is ranged, reduce the need for ember to get close. Hydroid functions similarly and it works very well for him as a CC caster frame.

Fireblast gets a volt shield kind of buff, in conjunction with her 2 the damage can reach good levels of damage.

there were no words of fireblast acting like a shield so dont even try to add that... nan mate, its a gimmik and isnt even a good one

and fireball is 2 energy hungry to be useful, you know what else locks areas with heat procs  with less energy ? Wof
gimmiks arent buffs
 

[TeCoolTenno]

Just now, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

Tbh,  I need to revisit my Nyx. As for Loki and Ivara, I just completely derped and forgot they had abilities that were beneficial to more than just Stealth missions, XD. I play them for Spy and Rescue just a little too much, haha.

I almost exclusively play Ivara, with Nyx if things are getting serious and a radial CC ability like chaos is absolutely required (eximus defense sortie... Shudder). Only playing Mag for memes/experimentation (with new buffs considering trying her seriously), and Chroma for fun and as a tank when it's needed most. Never ran into a problem in terms of not having an answer to missions (I switch between 3 builds, strength build + infiltrate for artemis bow DPS and fast moving prowl, master thief+thief's wit+loot detector+etc greedy looter build for ayatan star n syndicate medallion farm, and full range + duration utility).

 

So yeah, 'no more good CC in those particular areas' definitely felt like hyperbole, I'm glad you agree they're good for defense/survival :P

[Fate_Epsylon]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

Join date of the forums does not mean anything! Why do I have to keep telling people this?! ....sorry, just really aggravating.

It's a 3 year difference. I mean that literally.

When I decided to look at his join date, it wasn't in order to be condescending. It was literally to find out where this kind of info came from that "People asked for Overheat to be changed into WoF"

First off, it was stated in a Dev Stream, that "Overheat was causing Ember to be played in a way she wasn't intended to." So it was removed outright.

Second, If it was a month or two (maybe even 6 months) I wouldn't said what I said.

But three years? You mean to tell me this person was just "watching from the sidelines, but never decided to play it for three years?"

Don't kid yourself.

If you're going to make the defense that "join date" isn't important, make sure that it doesn't involve dates/times of events (that happened in the forums).

[(PSN)zedlanik]

Best way to make ember good brink her old famous ember back from the past 

[BornWithTeeth]

4 minutes ago, Aegni said:

I think you're not looking at it based on its use and you're focused on the numbers too much.

If you napalm a doorway and it is affected by duration you can lock out an area.  The fire will cause panic and since it is ranged, reduce the need for ember to get close. Hydroid functions similarly and it works very well for him as a CC caster frame.

Fireblast gets a volt shield kind of buff, in conjunction with her 2 the damage can reach good levels of damage.

Hydroid’s abilities and Augments allow him to become immune to all damage, heal his entire health pool in a few seconds, strip enemies of their armour, deal scaling damage, and lock down an entire room with CC.

 

Your comparison is to say that Ember can inflict a Heat proc on enemies trying to get through a door, and encouraging people to sacrifice a mod slot and buff duration to incorporate a Corrupted mod in order to try to compensate for the nerf.

 

It’s a joke.

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

All very good news, so good to see how fruitful supporting this game has been!

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

2 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

It's a 3 year difference. I mean that literally.

When I decided to look at his join date, it wasn't in order to be condescending. It was literally to find out where this kind of info came from that "People asked for Overheat to be changed into WoF"

First off, it was stated in a Dev Stream, that "Overheat was causing Ember to be played in a way she wasn't intended to." So it was removed outright.

Second, If it was a month or two (maybe even 6 months) I wouldn't said what I said.

But three years? You mean to tell me this person was just "watching from the sidelines, but never decided to play it for three years?"

Don't kid yourself.

I wasn't mad about that, I was mad that people are starting to act that a player's forum join date actually matters. People could have played and not joined the forums for years.

[Haeen]

4 minutes ago, An8rchy said:

there were no words of fireblast acting like a shield so dont even try to add that... nan mate, its a gimmik and isnt even a good one

and fireball is 2 energy hungry to be useful, you know what else locks areas with heat procs  with less energy ? Wof
gimmiks arent buffs
 

There is, read the post.

I said it acts like volt's shield. WHen you shoot through it, you get a heat damage buff.

Fireball is only 25 energy at its base, charging it up to 50, with streamline and fleeting expertise to lock down a chokepoint?  That is incredibly useful.  That's like saying hydroid's 1 is bad when its one of the best for locking an area down.

WoF has a target cap, and it strikes only where the enemy currently is, so if you have a horde coming through a doorway her 1 is going to lock it down more effectively and in combination with her 4, dish out damage and CC the enemy. You should try to see the abilities in conjunction with each other rather than isolated.