Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited Part 2

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

4 minutes ago, TeCoolTenno said:

I almost exclusively play Ivara, with Nyx if things are getting serious and a radial CC ability like chaos is absolutely required (eximus defense sortie... Shudder). Only playing Mag for memes/experimentation (with new buffs considering trying her seriously), and Chroma for fun and as a tank when it's needed most. Never ran into a problem in terms of not having an answer to missions (I switch between 3 builds, strength build + infiltrate for artemis bow DPS and fast moving prowl, master thief+thief's wit+loot detector+etc greedy looter build for ayatan star n syndicate medallion farm, and full range + duration utility).

 

So yeah, 'no more good CC in those particular areas' definitely felt like hyperbole, I'm glad you agree they're good for defense/survival :P

lol. I do agree that they have massive potential.

[An8rchy]

1 minute ago, Aegni said:

There is, read the post.

I said it acts like volt's shield. WHen you shoot through it, you get a heat damage buff.

Fireball is only 25 energy at its base, charging it up to 50, with streamline and fleeting expertise to lock down a chokepoint?  That is incredibly useful.  That's like saying hydroid's 1 is bad when its one of the best for locking an area down.

WoF has a target cap, and it strikes only where the enemy currently is, so if you have a horde coming through a doorway her 1 is going to lock it down more effectively and in combination with her 4, dish out damage and CC the enemy. You should try to see the abilities in conjunction with each other rather than isolated.

charge time + energy cost =/= a good lockdown

Using your example, on a horde, it will get pushed thru the napalm, hindering it useless...  
its simply useless to use 50 energy and cast time when you can have multiple enemies soft cc'd by wof. and accelarent exist and has no limits. not only that its faster and cheaper.
 

[Fate_Epsylon]

My first ever posts were regarding Ember's Overheat removal.

(Yet my join date is apparently February. (Which guess what?) Ironically coincides with my join date of the game.) hmm... Coincidence?
 

So yes, it matters, not in terms of superiority or anything like that. It matters because it's essential to what he said.

"People asked for an (incorrect) Ember change."

Where else do they do this? In the forums. 

Even if he were to hear this from the grapevine or from someone else, they are wrong. There is no changing that.

My overall point still stands. Fact check before making such bogus claims.

[Haeen]

6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Hydroid’s abilities and Augments allow him to become immune to all damage, heal his entire health pool in a few seconds, strip enemies of their armour, deal scaling damage, and lock down an entire room with CC.

 

Your comparison is to say that Ember can inflict a Heat proc on enemies trying to get through a door, and encouraging people to sacrifice a mod slot and buff duration to incorporate a Corrupted mod in order to try to compensate for the nerf.

 

It’s a joke.

Hydroid's abilities are all used in conjunction with one another to make him work. He isn't a caster that relies on a singular ability in order to function effectively.

Ember currently is a caster that relies on a singular ability.  You're in complete refusal to acknowledge the attempt to make Ember a caster frame that can use all of her abilities to function rather than remain reliant upon WoF. 

Tell me, for all the critiques you have, what would you suggest as an improvement?

Don't say "leave WoF alone." because unfortunately, it does need to be changed but not for the reasons people list.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

My first ever posts were regarding Ember's Overheat removal.

(Yet my join date is apparently February. (Which guess what?) Ironically coincides with my join date of the game.) hmm... Coincidence?
 

So yes, it matters, not in terms of superiority or anything like that. It matters because it's essential to what he said.

"People asked for an (incorrect) Ember change."

Where else do they do this? In the forums. 

Even if he were to hear this from the grapevine or from someone else, they are wrong. There is no changing that.

My overall point still stands. Fact check before making such bogus claims.

Not everybody even realizes that the forums a thing. So no, it does NOT matter.

[Xemgoa]

I know some people will think differently, but if I could ask for one change for Excalibur (Unless a later update will cover it), I would like to request that:

 

• Excalibur's "Radial Javelin" needs to be a bit more potent.

It might be me when I am pitted against high-end or endgame enemies but, at 200% Power Strength, they seem to chip away at supposedly weaker enemy health rather than decimating them or doing substantial damage to them, while heavier units take even less damage. I don't know if anyone has voiced this yet, but I was hoping it was doable, seeing as other frames with good CC abilities either do considerable damage or have good DPS when CC'ing.

[Fate_Epsylon]

Just now, Aegni said:

Tell me, for all the critiques you have, what would you suggest as an improvement?

Don't say "leave WoF alone." because unfortunately, it does need to be changed but not for the reasons people list.

Line 1: Have you bothered to read this thread at all? It's almost all posts/suggestions to improving Ember.

Line 2:  People aren't asking for WoF to be left alone. (That's only if there aren't going to be any changes to the new WoF changes at all.)
Yes, it could be changed, but the most people are asking for is to either:

- A) Remove it's damage, leave the range and allow it to be used for CC.

- B) Leave the range alone, but cause it to deal less damage the further away the enemy is from the center.

- C) Add damage mitigation to it as the range dwindles & the energy cost increases in proportion.

Once again... Have you bothered reading the thread at all?

 

[Haeen]

5 minutes ago, An8rchy said:

charge time + energy cost =/= a good lockdown

Using your example, on a horde, it will get pushed thru the napalm, hindering it useless...  
its simply useless to use 50 energy and cast time when you can have multiple enemies soft cc'd by wof. and accelarent exist and has no limits. not only that its faster and cheaper.
 

Charge time + energy cost = Hydroid's 1

Does hydroid's 1 suck? No. You use it for the CC potential.

Using her 1 to soft CC a chokepoint, and her WoF to hard CC enemies with firequake (because panic isn't the best CC).

Flash accelerant's stun iirc, doesn't affect all enemies either and if you're using the augment its mainly for the damage and not necessarily just thestun.

[An8rchy]

3 minutes ago, Aegni said:

Hydroid's abilities are all used in conjunction with one another to make him work. He isn't a caster that relies on a singular ability in order to function effectively.

Ember currently is a caster that relies on a singular ability.  You're in complete refusal to acknowledge the attempt to make Ember a caster frame that can use all of her abilities to function rather than remain reliant upon WoF. 

Tell me, for all the critiques you have, what would you suggest as an improvement?

Don't say "leave WoF alone." because unfortunately, it does need to be changed but not for the reasons people list.

Ok, imma give you suggestions for ember to be good.

-Fireball is replaced by fire wisps that not only reduce dmg but increase and gives heat dmg, Can be casted on allies
-accelerant (which btw current ember uses it, so if u think its all about wof, you never played ember and just want her gone from your low lvl missions) doesnt get touched
-fireblast is an aoe "sacred ground"  that slows and burns enemies
-Wof is replaced by Overheat

[(PSN)zedlanik]

1 minute ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

Line 1: Have you bothered to read this thread at all? It's almost all posts/suggestions to improving Ember.

Line 2:  People aren't asking for WoF to be left alone. (That's only if there aren't going to be any changes to the new WoF changes at all.)
Yes, it could be changed, but the most people are asking for is to either:

- A) Remove it's damage, leave the range and allow it to be used for CC.

- B) Leave the range alone, but cause it to deal less damage the further away the enemy is from the center.

- C) Add damage mitigation to it as the range dwindles & the energy cost increases in proportion.

Once again... Have you bothered reading the thread at all?

 

I like B that would make sense for ember 

[Fate_Epsylon]

7 minutes ago, Aegni said:

Some people are.  Hence, why I asked for a suggestion

Once again, was I even talking to you in the first place? Step off dude.

Line 1: Some. (And once again) It's only if the new changes are going to go through instead of being changed. (stated this in that post you just quote. Look, it's right there.)

Line 2: Public forums. If you post something, expect a response. Don't like it? Don't post.

[An8rchy]

2 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

Line: Some. (And once again) It's only if the new changes are going to go through instead of being changed. (stated this in that post you just quote. Look, it's right there.)

Line 2: Public forums. If you post something, expect a response. Don't like it? Don't post.

I love you and i love how you format stuff, please teach me. makes it so much easier to read

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, Aegni said:

Hydroid's abilities are all used in conjunction with one another to make him work. He isn't a caster that relies on a singular ability in order to function effectively.

Ember currently is a caster that relies on a singular ability.  You're in complete refusal to acknowledge the attempt to make Ember a caster frame that can use all of her abilities to function rather than remain reliant upon WoF. 

Tell me, for all the critiques you have, what would you suggest as an improvement?

Don't say "leave WoF alone." because unfortunately, it does need to be changed but not for the reasons people list.

Mate, there have been a rake of suggestions offered in this thread, some by others and some by me, so I don’t know why you’re suddenly saying “Yeah? Well, you try it!”

 

 Removing Ember’s Low Level Kill-Hogging While Preserving Higher Level Defences!

- Leave WoF’s range intact, so that it can still trigger Heat procs and the knockdown of its Augment, but reduce its damage to a tiny fraction of what it does now. Then, build in an interaction between WoF and Accelerant which causes enemies affected by both of those powers to take thousands of Heat damage. Bam. Done.

- Leave WoF’s range intact, but cause it to have an extreme gradient based on range in how its damage is calculated. In other words, enemies in the outer 50% of its range take barely any damage even if they are knocked down or take a Heat proc, but enemies in the closest 20% take huge Heat damage.

- Reduce WoF’s range as per the plan, but release an Augment which has the following effect: enemies firing into the WoF effect from outside of its range take a huge accuracy penalty, as the firestorm impairs their targeting ability.

 

That’s just three ideas, any of which would solve the problem better.

[DeadMansChest]

Made a few revisions to what I proposed (mostly clarification)

 

[Fate_Epsylon]

Just now, An8rchy said:

I love you and i love how you format stuff, please teach me. makes it so much easier to read

<3

I just try to make sure that my key points stand out in my posts and if the post is huge, I just make sure that points are the first things that grab the reader's attention. (Then people will probably (want to) go back and read the rest if they already understand the core of what I'm saying.

 

[Haeen]

4 minutes ago, An8rchy said:

Ok, imma give you suggestions for ember to be good.

-Fireball is replaced by fire wisps that not only reduce dmg but increase and gives heat dmg, Can be casted on allies
-accelerant (which btw current ember uses it, so if u think its all about wof, you never played ember and just want her gone from your low lvl missions) doesnt get touched
-fireblast is an aoe "sacred ground"  that slows and burns enemies
-Wof is replaced by Overheat

Hmmm, if anything I would actually add to the accelerant and make it knock down. Not unreasonable since that is what WoF's augment does and WoF is far more energy efficient. It also means it affects some of the enemies that stun doesn't, such as some eximus units.

 

[SteamlordD]

Just now, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

What I am trying to convey though is that only joining the forums recently does not necessarily mean you do not know what you are talking about. Do you understand me? Ugh, this is giving me a headache...

Sure, that makes sense, except in the case that someone is trying to present time sensitive information that they don't have. Join date isn't a valid indicator of competence, but you can't claim to be part of a discussion that happened three years before you were even around.

[fatpig84]

Cant wait derp

[Haeen]

12 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

Line 1: Some. (And once again) It's only if the new changes are going to go through instead of being changed. (stated this in that post you just quote. Look, it's right there.)

And once again, hence why I asked Anarchy for his input on the matter because I do not know whether or not he wishes for it to remain the same or if he has suggestion. I completely understand your frustration, but it has gone into being disrespectful which is not at all conductive towards the discussion.

12 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

Line 2: Public forums. If you post something, expect a response. Don't like it? Don't post.

Common sense: If Person A is speaking to Person B, Person C shouldn't speak on behalf of Person B.

As I said, I get your frustration, but you're simply being disrespectful and it detracts from the discussion rather than adding to it. It is good to be motivated, it is not good to be rude towards individual's who actually agree with you on disliking the changes.  So...step off for a moment and drink some cool water.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

Just now, SteamlordD said:

Sure, that makes sense, except in the case that someone is trying to present time sensitive information that they don't have. Join date isn't a valid indicator of competence, but you can't claim to be part of a discussion that happened three years before you were even around.

It just frustrates me here. It was not even meant to be an argument from me. It is just upsetting. I agree that generally people who have not been around on the forums probably do not realize. Just...ugh. The forum join date should always be taken with a grain of salt. People actually do research sometimes, you know? Thanks for being civil. It is quite the rarity some days.

[Haeen]

Honestly, people are ll just upset with the changes and they're lashing out.  Drink some cold water, chill. If we're all in agreement that a change needs to be made but we disagree on how, there shouldn't be any need for hostility. It is completely unnecessary.

[BornWithTeeth]

6 minutes ago, Aegni said:

Honestly, people are ll just upset with the changes and they're lashing out.  Drink some cold water, chill. If we're all in agreement that a change needs to be made but we disagree on how, there shouldn't be any need for hostility. It is completely unnecessary.

[Haeen]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

2 minutes ago, Aegni said:

Honestly, people are ll just upset with the changes and they're lashing out.  Drink some cold water, chill. If we're all in agreement that a change needs to be made but we disagree on how, there shouldn't be any need for hostility. It is completely unnecessary.

<.<  Did I say something profound?  I only see my quote.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

2 minutes ago, Aegni said:

<.<  Did I say something profound?  I only see my quote.

You said something that is, quite frankly, oft forgotten here on the forums. 

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Aegni said:

<.<  Did I say something profound?  I only see my quote.

The website had a staggeringly huge panic attack, logged my post before I had a chance to finish typing it, and then wouldn't allow me to edit it. Charming. Well done. Top notch programming. Superb.

 

 

 

In any case, I was pointing out that you asked me for suggestions, and then completely ignored the multiple suggestions which I provided, all of which are more elegant solutions than what DE are currently planning to do. If you check the post chain, you'll see that it was actually me whom you asked for better solutions. I would very much appreciate hearing back from you about them!