Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited Part 2

[Haeen]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

The website had a staggeringly huge panic attack, logged my post before I had a chance to finish typing it, and then wouldn't allow me to edit it. Charming. Well done. Top notch programming. Superb.

The good ole locked post

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

 

In any case, I was pointing out that you asked me for suggestions, and then completely ignored the multiple suggestions which I provided, all of which are more elegant solutions than what DE are currently planning to do. If you check the post chain, you'll see that it was actually me whom you asked for better solutions. I would very much appreciate hearing back from you about them!

Yeah I saw them, i just didn't have the chance to respond to them.  Was having stalker chase me around a room,

[DeadMansChest]

Thoughts on my dumb ideas would be cool too

[Fate_Epsylon]

23 minutes ago, Aegni said:

And once again, hence why I asked Anarchy for his input on the matter because I do not know whether or not he wishes for it to remain the same or if he has suggestion. I completely understand your frustration, but it has gone into being disrespectful which is not at all conductive towards the discussion.

Common sense: If Person A is speaking to Person B, Person C shouldn't speak on behalf of Person B.

As I said, I get your frustration, but you're simply being disrespectful and it detracts from the discussion rather than adding to it. It is good to be motivated, it is not good to be rude towards individual's who actually agree with you on disliking the changes.  So...step off for a moment and drink some cool water.

I stated this the first time. (But I'll say it again, I don't mind.) If you read the thread (or even some of it), you'll notice that the person in mind DID give suggestions (before the ones they gave in response to your post), reading through the thread would answer this. Case and point.

Common (INTERNET) sense: Was your post to that person privatized or in a space that only you two can see it?

- If yes, you completely win there.

- If no, that space is deemed public. (Being public means accessible to everyone btw. Not a select few)

Just because you specify who you are talking to (or not talking to) doesn't mean that no one (else) is allowed to respond to you. (This is why forums exist and why personal messaging exists. Please learn the difference between the two.)

As for my rudeness, I do not mean to come off as such, (I guess my posts can come off as aggressive), but if I am, I don't meant to be so. Just the like the instance with PS4Boomstick98, If I feel that I'm getting annoyed, angry or just irked, I discontinue the conversation. (I'm not up for wasting that kind of energy.)

If I have offended you, I do apologize, but this doesn't make me retract my statement. The things you were asking for where already in the thread. (Let alone all over it.)

 

 

EDIT: ... Did something happen? Nothing seems to have happened to my post or anything.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

I stated this the first time. (But I'll say it again, I don't mind.) If you read the thread (or even some of it), you'll notice that the person in mind DID give suggestions (before the ones they gave in response to your post), reading through the thread would answer this. Case and point.

Common (INTERNET) sense: Was your post to that person privatized or in a space that only you two can see it?

- If yes, you completely win there.

- If no, that space is deemed public. (Being public means accessible to everyone btw. Not a select few)

Just because you specify who you are talking to (or not talking to) doesn't mean that no one (else) is allowed to respond to you. (This is why forums exist and why personal messaging exists. Please learn the difference between the two.)

As for my rudeness, I do not mean to come off as such, (I guess my posts can come off as aggressive), but if I am, I don't meant to be so. Just the like the instance with PS4Boomstick98, If I feel that I'm getting annoyed, angry or just irked, I discontinue the conversation. (I'm not up for wasting that kind of energy.)

If I have offended you, I do apologize, but this doesn't make me retract my statement. The things you were asking for where already in the thread. (Let alone all over it.)

I should apologize, I was partly in the wrong. i really should have put two and two together.

[Sennera]

Maybe a little late on this, but could Atlas' passive be extended to protect from Manic's knockdown+finisher too? So long as he's on the ground, of course!

[Fate_Epsylon]

Just now, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

I should apologize, I was partly in the wrong. i really should have put two and two together.

No need to apologize. If I was being aggressive, I wasn't intending to. I try to make sure my posts are as palatable (and as non-aggressive) as possible.

If I say or ask something, it's not out of anger or to make anyone feel inferior. I'm literally asking/saying it. (But now looking at my posts, I can understand why they would come off as such.)

I can't stand the kind of toxicity that exists on the internet (and i sure as heck don't want to add to it.)
 

So I'm sorry about that. I need to put more work into making sure my posts don't come off as aggressive as they do & make sure my posts are a bit more understandable.

=3

[SteamlordD]

I'm of the opinion that, while overheat may have been too strong at the time, that was before mods 2.0, wasn't it? A lot has changed. Consider for a second that Shatter Shield is 95% damage resistance against bullets, which is most of what you encounter.

In an effort to make it more active, Overheat could be implemented as a passive that encourages you to deal damage actively in order to keep yourself alive. going as high as 95% pre-mitigation damage resistance isn't unheard of in the game these days, but it could even be capped at 75 or 80%, draining in bursts as some of the heat is discharged in small radial puffs.

It would tie the kit together nicely, I think.

[Fate_Epsylon]

1 minute ago, SteamlordD said:

I'm of the opinion that, while overheat may have been too strong at the time, that was before mods 2.0, wasn't it? A lot has changed. Consider for a second that Shatter Shield is 95% damage resistance against bullets, which is most of what you encounter.

In an effort to make it more active, Overheat could be implemented as a passive that encourages you to deal damage actively in order to keep yourself alive. going as high as 95% pre-mitigation damage resistance isn't unheard of in the game these days, but it could even be capped at 75 or 80%, draining in bursts as some of the heat is discharged in small radial puffs.

It would tie the kit together nicely, I think.

I felt the same way since I first saw Mesa and Wukong.

[(PSN)Killerworld]

What will spectral scream augment do now? Also will this help effigy's breath damage ?

[Haeen]

Just now, Fate_Epsylon said:

I stated this the first time. (But I'll say it again, I don't mind.) If you read the thread (or even some of it), you'll notice that the person in mind DID give suggestions (before the ones they gave in response to your post), reading through the thread would answer this. Case and point.

Okay, forget it, I am not going to be as nice as boomstick about the your behavior.

Very few individual's are going to bother reading through 34 pah=ges of individuals screaming and kicking or yelling or suggesting.  on top of this, the discussion in itself would never occur at all, and if you really expect someonet o keep track of every single suggestion then that is an unrealistic expectation.  Now if you can do such a thing, kudos, but that is you and I am me and the discussion I was having with the individual did not need your your torrent of aggressivenes in what was generally civil.

Just now, Fate_Epsylon said:

Common (INTERNET) sense: Was your post to that person privatized or in a space that only you two can see it?
- If yes, you completely win there.

- If no, that space is deemed public. (Being public means accessible to everyone btw. Not a select few)

Just because you specify who you are talking to (or not talking to) doesn't mean that no one (else) is allowed to respond to you. (This is why forums exist and why personal messaging exists. Please learn the difference between the two.)

Common sense: Learn to read what is written and not what you think is written.

Did I make any statement that you are not allowed to respond?

Did I make any statement that I wished for it to not be responded to by anyone else?

I advised you simply that I was requesting Anarchy's response and you felt the need to stick your own in which had not been requested because you are not Anarchy and you arenot anyone else for that matter.

It is an amazing thing when you choose to get frustrated and offended for someone else.

Now if you wish to offer your opinion that is perfectly fine and I shall respond and do so as I have with others, but...I am not going to condone your behavior, appreciate willful misinterpretation if what is stated simply because you are so angry you cannot see beyond yourself. You quite literally spend several moments complaining about someone's join date on a forum to try and invalidate what they stated when that person, more than likely, agrees with you on the basis of Ember needing change.

 

[BornWithTeeth]

Whatever reasoning is going on behind the scenes must be absolutely bizarre, to be honest.

 

Mesa - Is an unkillable bullet goddess who effortlessly wipes entire rooms while having 95% ranged damage reduction and automatically disarming enemies who come close to her.

Octavia - Is invisible, CC-ing the entire room, and dealing scaling damage while buffing herself and her team.

Nova - CC's more than the entire room, slowing every enemy and making them take mega damage.

Ember - Is getting nerfed.

 

 

Lads. What the hell is going on.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Whatever reasoning is going on behind the scenes must be absolutely bizarre, to be honest.

 

Mesa - Is an unkillable bullet goddess who effortlessly wipes entire rooms while having 95% ranged damage reduction and automatically disarming enemies who come close to her.

Octavia - Is invisible, CC-ing the entire room, and dealing scaling damage while buffing herself and her team.

Nova - CC's more than the entire room, slowing every enemy and making them take mega damage.

Ember - Is getting nerfed.

 

 

Lads. What the hell is going on.

It seems to only be because Ember and banshee are the most common ones who cause this problem. the moment the others begin causing this problem, they will be nerfed too.

[An8rchy]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Whatever reasoning is going on behind the scenes must be absolutely bizarre, to be honest.

 

Mesa - Is an unkillable bullet goddess who effortlessly wipes entire rooms while having 95% ranged damage reduction and automatically disarming enemies who come close to her.

Octavia - Is invisible, CC-ing the entire room, and dealing scaling damage while buffing herself and her team.

Nova - CC's more than the entire room, slowing every enemy and making them take mega damage.

Ember - Is getting nerfed.

 

 

Lads. What the hell is going on.

babies that blame ember stealing kills on a PVE game

[Haeen]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Whatever reasoning is going on behind the scenes must be absolutely bizarre, to be honest.

 

Mesa - Is an unkillable bullet goddess who effortlessly wipes entire rooms while having 95% ranged damage reduction and automatically disarming enemies who come close to her.

Octavia - Is invisible, CC-ing the entire room, and dealing scaling damage while buffing herself and her team.

Nova - CC's more than the entire room, slowing every enemy and making them take mega damage.

Ember - Is getting nerfed.

 

 

Lads. What the hell is going on.

To be honest, I think its a case of "we don't mind if you're an unkillable ninja cowboy robot that fires a billion bullets but only if you pay for it in some way."

Mesa is a turret

Octavia 's 2 doesn't go where she wants it to.

Nova has to move to establish her zone.

Ember is themost passive of the 4.  I honestly think they just said "it feels bad for other plyers" so that people feel better about being annoyed at ember.

[Sennera]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Whatever reasoning is going on behind the scenes must be absolutely bizarre, to be honest.

 

Mesa - Is an unkillable bullet goddess who effortlessly wipes entire rooms while having 95% ranged damage reduction and automatically disarming enemies who come close to her.

Octavia - Is invisible, CC-ing the entire room, and dealing scaling damage while buffing herself and her team.

Nova - CC's more than the entire room, slowing every enemy and making them take mega damage.

Ember - Is getting nerfed.

 

 

Lads. What the hell is going on.

Ember is the only one of the four that has a legit mobile AoE, since Octavia's resonator follows at a painfully slow speed.

Mesa and Octavia's AoEs also rely on LoS (which is weird for Octavia, see: Banshee)

Nova's ability takes time to hit max range and doesn't outright kill enemies instantly, meaning squad members can get their kill on which is the point of Ember's nerf.

[SteamlordD]

Chroma would benefit greatly from having his Effigy's cost reduced, and making it a floating buff station for allies. Want to use that speed to zip around, but don't want to be selfish with you buffs? Drop skin on the cryopod and do you, pal.

That said, the range of the buffs is going to need some serious upscaling, if they're going to both reduce the effectiveness of vex armor, AND make it preferable to build for things other than raw strength. If you're getting 1/5th of the effect out of it post-fix, and then have to build for more diverse stats, it seems like it would be a pitiful buff.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, SteamlordD said:

Chroma would benefit greatly from having his Effigy's cost reduced, and making it a floating buff station for allies. Want to use that speed to zip around, but don't want to be selfish with you buffs? Drop skin on the cryopod and do you, pal.

That said, the range of the buffs is going to need some serious upscaling, if they're going to both reduce the effectiveness of vex armor, AND make it preferable to build for things other than raw strength. If you're getting 1/5th of the effect out of it post-fix, and then have to build for more diverse stats, it seems like it would be a pitiful buff.

Oh my god, why did my friends and I never think of this?

[DroopingPuppy]

1 minute ago, An8rchy said:

babies that blame ember stealing kills on a PVE game

Where all shares the affinity equally provided all of us are stick together.

Not to mention that Equinox is simply better replacement of Ember on low level missions even for now.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

1 minute ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Where all shares the affinity equally provided all of us are stick together.

Not to mention that Equinox is simply better replacement of Ember on low level missions even for now.

Now if only Equinox was not such a pain to get!

[An8rchy]

Just now, DroopingPuppy said:

Where all shares the affinity equally provided all of us are stick together.

Not to mention that Equinox is simply better replacement of Ember on low level missions even for now.

i have to add that, the way affinity works, if dont kill and get the xp, you actualy get more than if you yourself are killing them for some reason.... just pointing it out

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, Aegni said:

To be honest, I think its a case of "we don't mind if you're an unkillable ninja cowboy robot that fires a billion bullets but only if you pay for it in some way."

Mesa is a turret

Octavia 's 2 doesn't go where she wants it to.

Nova has to move to establish her zone.

Ember is themost passive of the 4.  I honestly think they just said "it feels bad for other plyers" so that people feel better about being annoyed at ember.

I have my doubts regarding that, to be quite fair.

- Mesa is a turret for a few seconds at a time while killing every enemy in sight, and has her damage reduction up basically all the time. Having to stand still for five seconds while you kill literally everything in the room is not a serious drawback.

- Octavia's 2 being a little wayward is ok because the enemies will follow it, and Octavia doesn't have to worry about getting killed while it catches up because she's also invisible.

- Nova has to merely bullet jump and hit 4 in order to slow down every enemy in the tile. She doesn't hog the kills, but she absolutely trivialises almost any enemy force.

- That last line is not exactly flattering to DE. "We're gonna set the playerbase at each other's throats to justify nerfing the weakest AoE caster in the game," is awful.

[Haeen]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

I have my doubts regarding that, to be quite fair.

- Mesa is a turret for a few seconds at a time while killing every enemy in sight, and has her damage reduction up basically all the time. Having to stand still for five seconds while you kill literally everything in the room is not a serious drawback.

- Octavia's 2 being a little wayward is ok because the enemies will follow it, and Octavia doesn't have to worry about getting killed while it catches up because she's also invisible.

- Nova has to merely bullet jump and hit 4 in order to slow down every enemy in the tile. She doesn't hog the kills, but she absolutely trivialises almost any enemy force.

- That last line is not exactly flattering to DE. "We're gonna set the playerbase at each other's throats to justify nerfing the weakest AoE caster in the game," is awful.

Yeah, like I said thats the only reason I can imagine it being. That they have to stand still and more actively do their thing where as Ember is just more passive.  The last line...eh...yeah. That is why when you balance a game, you NEVER, EVER, say you're doing X, Y, and Z for players.

[Fate_Epsylon]

50 minutes ago, Aegni said:

I was speaking to the individual specifically.  Get off the aggressive bit.

Some people are.  Hence, why I asked for a suggestion

Once again, was I even talking to you in the first place? Step off dude.

Line 1: Once again, in a public place. I wasn't speaking on the behalf of that person, I was speaking in terms of when you said.

(Can't be bothered to quote this so I'll just copy-paste.)

===Quote===

Tell me, for all the critiques you have, what would you suggest as an improvement?

 

Don't say "leave WoF alone." because unfortunately, it does need to be changed but not for the reasons people list.

 

===End quote==

To that I responded:

==Quote==

Line 1: Have you bothered to read this thread at all? It's almost all posts/suggestions to improving Ember.

Line 2:  People aren't asking for WoF to be left alone. (That's only if there aren't going to be any changes to the new WoF changes at all.)
Yes, it could be changed, but the most people are asking for is to either:

==End quote==

I never stated you need to "read the entire thread". You merely needed to just read a page back (at most).

This is your wording, not mine.

As for speaking on that person's behalf? Look at what I highlighted in the quotes.

"People"

"people are asking"

I'm speaking as someone who simply read about a page back (or more if they chose to).

I can understand if you're frustrated and may think I am, but I'm not. (like I said in my previous post, I'm not up for wasting the energy.)

I apologized if i'm (somehow) being disrespectful, but if anyone may need a cool drink, it might be you. 

Like I said in one of my first posts to you:

If you're not willing to be replied to, don't post. (You're not special in this forum. So you won't be treated any differently.)

I understand that people may have differences in their opinion, but keep in mind, if you speak in a public place (on the internet), be prepared for what people may say to you.

Also, I never detracted from the conversation at hand, I've only spoken in regards to Ember (and her changes) or anything that may have been said to me in terms of a reply. (Unless I'm chiming in on someone else's post. Like I did with you.)

[Fate_Epsylon]

19 minutes ago, Sennera said:

Ember is the only one of the four that has a legit mobile AoE, since Octavia's resonator follows at a painfully slow speed.

Mesa and Octavia's AoEs also rely on LoS (which is weird for Octavia, see: Banshee)

Nova's ability takes time to hit max range and doesn't outright kill enemies instantly, meaning squad members can get their kill on which is the point of Ember's nerf.

This actually makes sense, but I do agree with BornWithTeeth...

Ember's AoE is pretty much the weakest of the bunch. This is what is making this nerf really unbearable.

[BornWithTeeth]

17 minutes ago, Aegni said:

Yeah, like I said thats the only reason I can imagine it being. That they have to stand still and more actively do their thing where as Ember is just more passive.  The last line...eh...yeah. That is why when you balance a game, you NEVER, EVER, say you're doing X, Y, and Z for players.

Again, every single point of contention looks like a joke if you then merely point at Octavia. 

 

"Ember has too much area damage!"

- Octavia is killing everything in the room.

"It's not great to have abilities which deal too much CC and damage together."

- Octavia is killing and taunting every enemy in the room.

"This change is basically allowing Ember to scale by dealing an extra couple of thousand Heat damage, but to pay for it, she's having her range and CC nerfed."

- Octavia is killing and taunting everything in the room with damage which scales based on the noise level and the amount of enemy damage, so it keeps scaling.

"It's ok for Ember to be a total glass cannon, you just have to make sure to keep moving!"

- Octavia is killing and taunting everything in the room with damage which scales based on the noise level and the amount of enemy damage, so it keeps scaling, while also being invisible.

"Ember was too passive, she just pressed 4 and then had to press 2 to deal extra damage when surrounded or when she needed to renew her buffs!"

- Octavia is killing and taunting everything in the room with damage which scales based on the noise level and the amount of enemy damage, so it keeps scaling, while also being invisible, and she's doing it by pressing 1-2-3-4-Crouch-Crouch-Crouch every thirty seconds.

"We're giving Ember more damage, but to pay for that, her energy efficiency kinda has to take a hit, so her WoF now has double the cost as well as less than half the range. Trust us, it'll be amazing."

- Octavia is killing and taunting everything in the room with damage which scales based on the noise level and the amount of enemy damage, so it keeps scaling, while also being invisible, and she's doing it by pressing 1-2-3-4-Crouch-Crouch-Crouch every thirty seconds, and her passives gives her energy back just for using her abilities.

 

 

 

Guys. What the bloody hell is going on here.