[DE]Connor

Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited Part 2

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And with regards to low level stomping... Well, quite literally Rhino Stomp the whole tile dead, or Frost Avalanche the whole tile dead, or Saryn Spore the whole tile dead. The list goes on.

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2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Again, every single point of contention looks like a joke if you then merely point at Octavia. 

 

*Insert hilarious Ember/Octavia comparison*

 

Guys. What the bloody hell is going on here.

This just brings us back to DE having some sort of a grudge against Ember.

Also, this gave me a huge laugh! x3

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On 7.02.2018 at 4:30 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Vex Armor can now be recast to preserve accumulated buffs.

please make it as well as elemental ward a toggle skill 
and maybe some changes to the effigy or its augment (instead of flying at commanded place lets make it follow you in the fashion similar how sentinels float around you with like 400/300/200/100 power drain augment mod)

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9 minutes ago, DeadMansChest said:

And with regards to low level stomping... Well, quite literally Rhino Stomp the whole tile dead, or Frost Avalanche the whole tile dead, or Saryn Spore the whole tile dead. The list goes on.

When I heard about the Ember nerfs, I actually decided to test out every frame I have that can AoE. (Yes, I was bored to death while doing it.)

Guess what? They provided me with MORE kills than Ember could AND were also providing the team with some kind of support at the same time.

Frost? Globe.

Saryn/Nezha? They didn't need to do anything. (Not quite support, but it took the load off their backs.)

Mag? Shields.

Oberon? Healing.

Volt? Movement speed.

Rhino? Attack Buff. (Although they didn't need it.)

The list went on and on.

When are these frames getting nerfed then?

And if we're talking about boredom/passive play, they couldn't really move while doing it. Ember could. (So if a teammate went down? "Sorry, can't help! Too busy spamming 4 and being stuck in place.")

I believe doing what I did was way more boring... If you ask me.

Edited by Fate_Epsylon
proof-reading/adding formatting

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Just gonna re-link this for feedback

But yeah, I don't understand the reasoning they're giving for their WoF nerf when almost every other AoE frame does the same thing but better

Edited by DeadMansChest
  • Upvote 1

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Anyway, screw it, leaving it for a while, but before I go:

 

Guys, who was it said that Ember gets nerfed while Octavia is left alone because Ember is more passive?

 

I cannot think of a more passive playstyle in the entire game than "I'm going to stand here being invisible while my indestructible disco ball taunts all the enemies in the room and then kills them with scaling damage, and the only thing I have to do is press fewer than ten buttons every thirty seconds or so."

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20 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

- Octavia is killing and taunting everything in the room with damage which scales based on the noise level and the amount of enemy damage, so it keeps scaling, while also being invisible, and she's doing it by pressing 1-2-3-4-Crouch-Crouch-Crouch every thirty seconds, and her passives gives her energy back just for using her abilities.

Guys. What the bloody hell is going on here.

Actually sound doesn't affect Mallet at all, it gets a flat double damage/range boost from Amp and that's it. As for energy, every time I use my abilities (on a fully-fleshed-out build with enough range/damage for Sorties) I use up my entire energy bar to do my 1-2-3-4 and have to run around collecting enough orbs in 30s or drop a pizza to fuel my next cast.

The scaling damage and the CC IS good, but I'm fueling it with a LOT of energy every half-minute.

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16 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

Line 1: Once again, in a public place. I wasn't speaking on the behalf of that person, I was speaking in terms of when you said.

(Can't be bothered to quote this so I'll just copy-paste.)

We have been over this issue...but it seems that you are being obtuse and refuse to understand the point.

Or perhaps it is a language barrier and English isn't your first language...or a number of factors.

16 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

I never stated you need to "read the entire thread". You merely needed to just read a page back (at most).

This is your wording, not mine.

"Have you read the thread?"  This is a statement that implies the individual should read the thread. It does not imply "read back a page."  it does not imply "you should read here."  It is a generic statement that implies Read the thread and what other people have suggested which can cover the entire thread, some of the thread, most of thread. It is generic. Why the hell would ANYONE interpret it as

 

1. "Have you even read the thread?"  This is condescending.

2. Go back a single page for suggestions.

Particularly when Person A is asking Person B for their suggestions and would not locate it in the mountain of replies?  This whole thing is you being frustrated and then demanding that you be properly understood when you aren't properly articulating yourself.

 

16 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

As for speaking on that person's behalf? Look at what I highlighted in the quotes.

"People"

"people are asking"

I'm speaking as someone who simply read about a page back (or more if they chose to).

I don't care, I was asking for a single individual's opinion which makes the entire thing about people, irrelevant.

I wasn't asking for other people suggestions, I was requesting a singular individuals. So how the heck does it make sense to suggest I look at someone else's suggestions when I am requesting a singular individuals? 

16 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

I can understand if you're frustrated and may think I am, but I'm not. (like I said in my previous post, I'm not up for wasting the energy.)

That's fine.

16 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

I apologized if i'm (somehow) being disrespectful, but if anyone may need a cool drink, it might be you

 

I never liked it when people do this thing of "I might come off as a jerk BUT"

That means what you are going to say IS going to be disrespectful so why even say it?

As for a drink of cool water? Nah, I am good, my work requires me to have immense patience so you are little more than annoying me at best.

16 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

Like I said in one of my first posts to you:

If you're not willing to be replied to, don't post. (You're not special in this forum. So you won't be treated any differently.)

I understand that people may have differences in their opinion, but keep in mind, if you speak in a public place (on the internet), be prepared for what people may say to you.

We've been over this, read the previous posts since I'd rather not turn this into a cyclical argument wher you attempt to justify your poor articulation.

16 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

Also, I never detracted from the conversation at hand, I've only spoken in regards to Ember (and her changes) or anything that may have been said to me in terms of a reply. (Unless I'm chiming in on someone else's post. Like I did with you.)

Chiming in with your suggestion would be along the lines of

"I have a good suggestion.  A,B,C" 

Which you did as part of your post.

The rest? Just you being aggressive and condescending, then doubling back and stating "but what I meant was.".

No...it isn't my job to interpret what you intend, it isn't my job to realize you're not being disrespectful (after acknowledging it could be seen that way.)

I am down for anyone replying to me, but out of those individuals here, you're the only one seeing the need to try and jump down my throat.  I have a bad gag reflex, so please dont.

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24 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Again, every single point of contention looks like a joke if you then merely point at Octavia. 

 

"Ember has too much area damage!"

- Octavia is killing everything in the room.

"It's not great to have abilities which deal too much CC and damage together."

- Octavia is killing and taunting every enemy in the room.

"This change is basically allowing Ember to scale by dealing an extra couple of thousand Heat damage, but to pay for it, she's having her range and CC nerfed."

- Octavia is killing and taunting everything in the room with damage which scales based on the noise level and the amount of enemy damage, so it keeps scaling.

"It's ok for Ember to be a total glass cannon, you just have to make sure to keep moving!"

- Octavia is killing and taunting everything in the room with damage which scales based on the noise level and the amount of enemy damage, so it keeps scaling, while also being invisible.

"Ember was too passive, she just pressed 4 and then had to press 2 to deal extra damage when surrounded or when she needed to renew her buffs!"

- Octavia is killing and taunting everything in the room with damage which scales based on the noise level and the amount of enemy damage, so it keeps scaling, while also being invisible, and she's doing it by pressing 1-2-3-4-Crouch-Crouch-Crouch every thirty seconds.

"We're giving Ember more damage, but to pay for that, her energy efficiency kinda has to take a hit, so her WoF now has double the cost as well as less than half the range. Trust us, it'll be amazing."

- Octavia is killing and taunting everything in the room with damage which scales based on the noise level and the amount of enemy damage, so it keeps scaling, while also being invisible, and she's doing it by pressing 1-2-3-4-Crouch-Crouch-Crouch every thirty seconds, and her passives gives her energy back just for using her abilities.

 

Guys. What the bloody hell is going on here.

Dude, I agree with you I do. It makes little sense to hit Ember when Octavia exists .  Unfortunately, the idea of it being a passive AOE is the only reason I can see it being an issue for DE in terms of design. I like one of the other ideas, giving her Overheat.

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8 minutes ago, DeadMansChest said:

But yeah, I don't understand the reasoning they're giving for their WoF nerf when almost every other AoE frame does the same thing but better

Tbh, I'd be willing to hear their logic before the nerf as well (in comparison to the rest of the AoE capable frames).
They seriously need to be more transparent about it. If they can tell us why those frames can do it and why Ember isn't allowed to, I believe a lot of people would end up quieting down about the nerfs a bit. (Myself included. Even if I'm still not happy about it.)

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3 hours ago, Nathalieh said:

Well i just don't think that being able to take damage and dish it back out without a downside is a good mechanic it promotes bad play in my opinion.

Yeah maybe on the damage side of things, I can agree with you there. I’m just glad it will make Chroma less of a clunky and inconsistent tank.

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3 hours ago, SteamlordD said:

I'm still of the opinion that her useless passive needs to be traded out for something to give her damage resistance based on how much heat you put out, and then she'd be fine.

Her passive would actually be good if it didn’t rely on getting hurt by the few enemies that proc fire. Be great if ember had a chance to set her self on fire with her own abilities on cast and was immune to the fire proc’s damage so she can occasionally get boosted strength and energy over time that overwrites channeled abilities. However, while that would make the current passive better in function, that won’t solve her squishyness. I’d much rather scrap my idea to improve the current passive and go with yours if they’re gonna nerf ember’s range and cc potential to stay alive.

Edited by Shadedraxe

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Is it late? I hope not. My quick review.

Atlas: :clap:

Ash, Volt: This guys got so many hits that I'm lost ATM.

Banshee: It could be worse in wrong hands

Zephyr: Can't say, I don't play her, but I see lots of promises

Mag: She is OK now, I'm afraid she become too OP, increased Energy pool and casting speed on Crush is enough for me

Gara: IMO, probably  nobody in defence squad will wait until Gara will charge her MV and then lock Enemies in no man land

Chroma: TBH, Spectral Scream needs same change as Petrify because, even after near 5 years, Mainstream still has huge fear from Energy consumption

Question about Vex Armor is: Why should I farm little bit more hard, learn not an easy mechanic, stand in the Line of fire or dealing self damage while I  can easily scream "Roar" with probably better result?

Ember: Another victim of pitiful war between "Born to kill" crybabies and Massmurdering frames users. While 1st Tribe silently agrees, 2nd is throwing here embarrassing arguments like: Ember's WoF is only for low lvl. To both Tribes: this is, more or less, MMO CO-OP.

Thank you for your attention.

  • Satisfied 1
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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Is it late? I hope not. My quick review.

Atlas: :clap:

Ash, Volt: This guys got so many hits that I'm lost ATM.

Banshee: It could be worse in wrong hands

Zephyr: Can't say, I don't play her, but I see lots of promises

Mag: She is OK now, I'm afraid she become too OP, increased Energy pool and casting speed on Crush is enough for me

Gara: IMO, probably  nobody in defence squad will wait until Gara will charge her MV and then lock Enemies in no man land

Chroma: TBH, Spectral Scream needs same change as Petrify because, even after near 5 years, Mainstream still has huge fear from Energy consumption

Question about Vex Armor is: Why should I farm little bit more hard, learn not an easy mechanic, stand in the Line of fire or dealing self damage while I  can easily scream "Roar" with probably better result?

Ember: Another victim of pitiful war between "Born to kill" crybabies and Massmurdering frames users. While 1st Tribe silently agrees, 2nd is throwing here embarrassing arguments like: Ember's WoF is only for low lvl. To both Tribes: this is, more or less, MMO CO-OP.

Thank you for your attention.

The outcry against the WoF change isn't really about damage and the like, they could remove the damage entirely and it would be fine. Reducing the range makes Firequake sort of a wasted augment, and reduces her survivability considerably. I'd be happy with them not giving it the timer, and just making it smaller and deadlier, if they gave her any other means to defend herself.

5 minutes ago, Shadedraxe said:

Her passive would actually be good if it didn’t rely on getting hurt by the few enemies that proc fire. Be great if ember had a chance to set her self on fire with her own abilities on cast and was immune to the fire proc’s damage so she can occasionally get boosted strength and energy over time that overwrites channeled abilities. However, while that would make the current passive better in function, that won’t solve her squishyness. I’d much rather scrap my idea to improve the current passive and go with yours if they’re gonna range embers range and cc potential to stay alive.

The passive would be good, if it didn't rely on running into one of, what, four enemy types that do heat damage, hoping that they proc status on you, and then taking damage on a  squishy frame to generate less energy than you would get from a rage mod.

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Hm.. you know? Would it be okay to ask if Chroma's Spectral Scream could have two functions?

Holding down for a moment switches elements, and tapping it toggles Spectral Scream on and off?

Edited by Xemgoa

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27 minutes ago, Aegni said:

-snip-

*Insert a few language insults here*


*Insert I'm mad, but I'm not really mad here*

etc.

*Insert final admittance to being upset, but I'll just try to cleverly mask it*

Look, I'm not really willing to push this any further, so I'll leave this as my final post to you. (Whether you read it or not is up to you.)

The person in mind did give suggestions.

What I replied was " have you read back?" (this is now paraphrasing and not verbatim of what I said.)

The reason I said this is because the person you were talking to DID exactly as you asked before you interacted with them. (and not only them, but everyone else. Many of what that person said was pretty much copy-paste of what everyone else has pretty much said.)

Like I highlighted in my previous post. (But you ignored it, which is fine) I said " have you read the thread at all" not "read the thread". (There's a big difference.Something that doesn't require "using english as a first language"/"proper articulation". it just requires common sense. Something you like to use as a defense.)

You jutted out that "Who is talking to me? (Fate_Epsylon)."

I pointed about this comment was irrelevant due to your inital post(s) being in a public space.

Everything else is semantics at this point. (And your posts are getting more and more aggressive whether you wish to admit it or not. You even stated that "You're not going to be as nice as so and so")

So now I'm just tired and I'm going to stop replying to you. You may have the last word, (it's fine. I could care less.)

I just feel a bit sorry if you offend this easily online (especially when spoken to), but it isn't my place to say.

- Good day & enjoy your "cool drink".

Edited by Fate_Epsylon
missed some formatting

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3 minutes ago, Xemgoa said:

Hm.. you know? Would it be okay to ask if Chroma's Spectral Scream could have two functions?

Holding down for a moment switches elements, and tapping it toggles Spectral Scream on and off?

Honestly, if we could just replace Scream with something that switches elements, it would be preferable. Giving it a different function entirely on top of that would be beautiful. As it stands, there isn't really any use for it. Maybe turn it into a status ball cannon?

Edited by SteamlordD
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7 minutes ago, SteamlordD said:

The passive would be good, if it didn't rely on running into one of, what, four enemy types that do heat damage, hoping that they proc status on you, and then taking damage on a  squishy frame to generate less energy than you would get from a rage mod.

Aw man, now my typo is still out there for the world to see, nerf not need* (stupid autocorrect, should have done this on my computer). But yeah, reducing range ruins her survivability. She needs something to compensate for that. Doubling damage won’t do, ember isn’t going to outkill any level of enemy before they can pull the trigger. Especially if they are outside of WoF range, lol.

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8 minutes ago, SteamlordD said:

Honestly, if we could just replace Scream with something that switches elements, it would be preferable. Giving it a different function entirely on top of that would be beautiful, as it stands, there isn't really any use for it. Maybe turn it into a status ball cannon?

Editing it. Didn’t read the quote from the other comment, so I misunderstood where you were coming from. So yeah I agree. So long as we get the elements swap I’d be pretty happy with a more useable or overall better spectral scream ability.

Edited by Shadedraxe

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18 minutes ago, SteamlordD said:

The passive would be good, if it didn't rely on running into one of, what, four enemy types that do heat damage, hoping that they proc status on you, and then taking damage on a  squishy frame to generate less energy than you would get from a rage mod.

This is mainly why I'm not fond of her passive, it requires much more than Ember can provide (and even then, it doesn't even pay off compared to just slotting in a mod that does that much easier)

Someone said it earlier (I can't remember exactly who) that Ember's passive should be "similar to Ash's/Saryn's."

And to that, I wholly agree, but for the sake of synergy, it should be something along the lines of her old overheat (a nerfed version, of course) while allowing her heat procs to scale according to what she's dealing with.

Or you could even make it so that her heat procs are affected by her primary weapon mods as her passive.

Edited by Fate_Epsylon
added the final line
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1 hour ago, Sennera said:

Maybe a little late on this, but could Atlas' passive be extended to protect from Manic's knockdown+finisher too? So long as he's on the ground, of course!

I honestly never ran into that situation with Atlas and I didn’t know it’s possible for him to be m knocked down by them even while touching the ground. That should totally be changed, yes!!!

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3 hours ago, BringMeYourAzz said:

Like all other damage boosting abilities.

This is still talking about damage. And the original dev workshop talks about fury and not scorn.

Edited by Upright1

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On 2/7/2018 at 9:53 AM, ChanTheMan2448 said:

I was very excited to see this forum, but that Ember rework is still very disappointing. I mean, who uses fireball these days?? Please consider replacing her first ability for overheat, as she needs it because WOF is getting NERFED (it's not a buff). Her fireblast still doesn't seem viable because heat damage does not scale very well, or at all, in late game. As an ember main, it hurts to see these changes, and if DE doesn't consider further changes for Ember, she will be deemed useless.

Oh you mean give ember a shatter shield similar to mesa but weaker? No thanks, id rather not replace that stuff for armor. Stop talking about overheat, its bad, that's why they got rid of it.

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2 minutes ago, XRAY141 said:

Oh you mean give ember a shatter shield similar to mesa but weaker? No thanks, id rather not replace that stuff for armor. Stop talking about overheat, its bad, that's why they got rid of it.

It can't be that bad, since they gave it to like four other frames in one way or another. They removed because, at that time, with the way the game worked, having that much survivability was too strong. The current problem is that Ember can't survive things, I wonder how we could fix that, hm?

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