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Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited Part 2


[DE]Connor

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On 2/7/2018 at 9:30 AM, [DE]Connor said:

(NOTE: This post is a follow-up on a prior Dev Workshop. If you missed out last time, be sure to read up on all the changes here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/915093-dev-workshop-warframes-revisited/ )

 

Hail Tenno!

Thanks to everybody who read our previous thread, tuned in for the stream, and left their comments on our proposed Warframe ability changes. After having the weekend to observe player responses and read feedback, we’ve been trying out a few further changes, and wanted to update you guys on our progress!

First of all, the Warframe changes are also coming with a HUGE rebalancing of guns (as can be seen here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/916505-dev-workshop-weapons-mastery-ranks-and-stats/ ). We expect an exciting release week as players try out the changes, rework their builds, and rediscover old favorites. To help this along, we’ve got some special rewards lined up:

  • Login within 7 days of the update for an inbox message containing 3 x Forma and a 3 Day Affinity booster!
  • Console player will receive the same inbox message, by logging in when they get the build with aforementioned changes.
  • AFTER Friday's Devstream, ALL platforms will get BONUS Gift from the Lotus alerts this weekend with Orokin Reactors!

So without further ado, let's get to it! How have we iterated since last Dev Workshop? Find out in alphabetical order (again)!:

 

ASH:

  • Reduced energy cost of Bladestorm ticks.
     

ATLAS:

  • Petrify is now a single cast instead of a channel ability, instantly Petrifying enemies in front of you regardless of level!
  • Rubble now has a singular decay, instead of each piece of rubble having its own set duration. Picking up more rubble delays the decay for a brief time.
  • We may rebalance Ore Gaze for this rework, as players now have significantly more ways to Petrify enemies!
     

BANSHEE:

  • Although still a singular cast allowing free movement, Resonating Quake will only hit enemies once as it expands outward, dealing a mass of damage at once.
     

CHROMA:

  • Can cast other abilities while using Spectral Scream.
  • Spectral Scream damage now affected by Vex Armor damage buff.
  • Vex Armor aura range increased (currently 18 meters base range).
  • Vex Armor can now be recast to preserve accumulated buffs.
     

EMBER:

  • Fireball can now be held and charged for additional damage. Upon impact, Fireball will leave behind a Napalm-like flame that damages enemies.
  • Fire Blast will now add heat damage to weapons that fire through it.
     

GARA:

  • Health gained by Mass Vitrify shown in a UI display.
     

MAG:

  • Increased base energy pool (125 for Mag, 175 for Mag Prime).
  • Crush animations slightly sped up
  • Augment for Polarize reworked - now reads: "Weapons hit by Polarize are jammed for 4 seconds. Robotic enemies hit by Polarize are disabled for 4 seconds."
     

VOLT:

  • No changes at this time.
     

ZEPHYR:

  • Tail Wind now costs half as much energy when cast in the air.
  • Tail Wind does more damage.
  • Changed Dive Bomb augment into a Tail Wind augment - now reads: “Each enemy hit increases Tail Wind damage by 25%. Damage resets upon landing.”
  • Dive Bomb can now fire on slight angles, as long as you’re looking mostly down.
  • (Clarification: holding aim (default RMB) has a greater effect on steering Tornadoes.)

 

As a bonus, two more general changes you'll be happy to hear:

  • Focus Passives now apply immediately upon loading into a mission, rather than requiring the brief Operator transition.
  • When interacting with nullifiers, power-created avatars (Atlas’ Rumblers, Nekros’ Shadows, etc) will have their health drained, instead of instantly disappearing.

 

Expect these changes to land on PC soon! Thanks everyone!

 

 

Finally got the time to look over the other frames and contruct some suggestions, like I said I would earlier in the topic.

 

ATLAS
Landslide: Let this be castable without a target, please.
Tectonics: Should get new functional animation where it quickly raises from the ground as the tectonic raises in a tiny 45 degree motion, able to shove away an enemy in front of Atlas when he does it, somewhat similar to Frost's Snow Globe activation. The augment should also be the default of this ability, being able to make multiple. A tectonic can be turned into a giant rolling boulder either by using Landslide on the walls or pressing "X" near one, like an inverse of Volt's Electric Sheild. His augment can be changed to "Sticky Tectonic" or "Tartonic, or something like that, where enemies can get stuck to the wall and boulder, and can be bowled like a Katamari ball.

 

CHROMA
Spectral Scream
:  Let Chroma change his elements like Vauban changes his Minelayer.
Elemental Ward : Same as above but also let this ability turn Spectral Scream into a projectile, so as to not make Spectral Scream as redundant when used with it, due to such a short range, and to let it have better synergy with this move. The Spectral Scream augment can be changed to something else, maybe a Rad proc or something like that. Perhaps further synergy could be had through switching elements in the Spectral Scream command and having it just carry over to Elemental Ward. 
Effigy: Make it scale with Vex armor as well. Also add something new to the ability. Instead of chroma simply shedding his pelt, he sheds his pelt to reveal dragon wings of his own underneath, perhaps even the ability to attack with them through elaborate parkour and melee moves (Think Jedah and Morrigan from Vampire Savior for example.), and use them to fly around like a true dragon if he wants, the latter can be activated, perhaps with "X" , so you don't have to fly around if you don't want to and if you want to use normal melee. Press "X" again to deactivate. The wings can still add damage when flipping, sliding and bullet jumping though.

 

BANSHEE
Sound Quake: Whether you make it a droppable move or a toggle, a better idea than the one pulse change you have would just be to have the damage from resonating quake, decay by distance or length. That way you can still keep the CC at the very least. 
 

I was going to talk about Ember too, but it seems everyone else has already given suggestions on that, so I will just stop for now. 

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After having a good think from seeing some people suggest it, I've warmed up (see what I did there) to the idea of attaching an Overheat-lite mechanic to WoF if they intend on keeping the proposed changes. They could have damage reduction scale up with the damage increase, energy cost and radius shrink. It would increase her survivability while not impacting her lethality, and would add a second positive to counterbalance the ability's two negatives. It would also add more meaningful distinction between play styles - do you leave it running for the boosted defense, or flick it on and off for better crowd control? It would also play off of the new Fire Blast better, since you would still be vulnerable from being locked down to a location but wouldn't be so unsustainably fragile that being so locked down is a death sentence.

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Alright. I just took the time to stop and think about it.

(I know this won't happen, I just wanted to post this and hear everyone's opinion on it. (Both the good and bad.))

Here's how I would rework Ember if it were up to me (based on what I've collected from the thread with a few tweaks).

Fireball - Fires the current (non-charged) version of her fireball, but leaves a patch of flame at the point of contact. Enemies that come in contact with either the fireball/flame patch receive heat proc. (No extra energy cost & deals it original uncharged damage

Accelerant - Works as it now, but with it's augment in place (by default) so it can affect the team's weapons (adds heat damage)

FireBlast - Works as is (pre-changes), but nullifies oncoming projectiles & enemies that walk into the ring are constantly hit with heat procs. (Being inside the ring still deals heat procs, not just the outer ring.)

World on Fire - Works as it now (pre-changes), but no longer deals damage. Will apply heat procs to all (enemies) it hits (Will not knockdown unless the augment is equipped)

 

Passive - Coming into contact with Fire increases Ember's armor (basically Overheat) & while in the fire, enemies take 3% of their max eHP as damage per (heat proc) tick. (Only if they have a heat proc(s)Leaving the fire source (or not being in one) negates this passive. (Normal heat proc damage will act as it normally does.)

 

I know it's nothing drastic or new, but I feel like this would give Ember synergy while giving her a direct form of play.

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At least WoF is getting better. I hated how you could cast it and leave it on the entire mission. It was a stupid and overpowered ability that took the fun from other non Ember players. 90% of the time I matched into a mission there were two Ember Primes setting everything on fire across two or so rooms at a time. Thank the Lotus that horrid ability is getting changed.

 

Now let's talk about Saryns survivability and fun factor overall...

 

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Ember still needs something more to her kit and I suggest the following additions to make her useful overall:

 

-Increase the base range of Accelerant across all levels

-When her World on Fire reaches max in terms of power strength gained or whatever then have it create a flame aura around Ember that 'melts' oncoming projectiles (with some exceptions) when a projectile such as a bullet becomes melted then it automatically triggers her passive and nearby Corpus enemies start to become 'overheated' and when this overheat threshold reaches a certain amount then that Corpus unit will shutdown becoming disabled for a while, however other unit types such as Grineer and Infested get panicked and become open up to other damage types, especially Cold damage. When enemies become opened up to other damage types then they take 30% more damage overall, 55% more if it is Cold damage. Also, increasing the max number of enemies that can be caught up in World on Fire

-Allow Ember to pick up a part of her Fire Blast ring similar in fashion to Volt's shield. Holding a section of the Fire Blast ring helps block oncoming projectiles or increases the chance of 'melting' them, when it disappears then it triggers Ember's passive

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21 minutes ago, Xylyssa said:

At least WoF is getting better. I hated how you could cast it and leave it on the entire mission. It was a stupid and overpowered ability that took the fun from other non Ember players. 90% of the time I matched into a mission there were two Ember Primes setting everything on fire across two or so rooms at a time. Thank the Lotus that horrid ability is getting changed.

 

Now let's talk about Saryns survivability and fun factor overall...

 

So what you are telling us with this post is that you have not read literally any post in this entire thread at all other than the first one.

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1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

So what you are telling us with this post is that you have not read literally any post in this entire thread at all other than the first one.

Not to worry, ember will get replaced by equinox and once she gets nerfed, octavia. He will probably have completed the star chart at that point and be wondering why simple defense missions take 30 minutes to complete.

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Just now, (PS4)Keiji_Haku said:

Passing judgment without having tried the changes is ignorant. Making conjecture if fine, but true experimentation can only be done with actual usage. If you wanna call something crap after using it then fine but don't call something garbage when you haven't even used it yet.

The issue there is that a bad change to Ember will not be reviewed and fixed for another year. Saying ‘wait and see’ isn’t helpful when waiting and seeing means that a bad rework is not quite set in stone.

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Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

The issue there is that a bad change to Ember will not be reviewed and fixed for another year. Saying ‘wait and see’ isn’t helpful when waiting and seeing means that a bad rework is not quite set in stone.

Are you assuming its bad? Or hypothesizing its bad? Either way you should just "wait and see." What happens when they see you complain and then you get something worse then this?

What happens when you make the wrong call? Right now is a game of chance, DE already rolled the dice, we'll soon know the outcome.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Keiji_Haku said:

Are you assuming its bad? Or hypothesizing its bad? Either way you should just "wait and see." What happens when they see you complain and then you get something worse then this?

What happens when you make the wrong call? Right now is a game of chance, DE already rolled the dice, we'll soon know the outcome.

To be fair, BornWithTeeth is on the right track.

Most of the things that have been done to Ember (minus a few direct buffs here and there) have turned out negatively & almost every time those Ember changes were coming, people saw it (the issues) ahead of time.

Right now, Ember's pretty much in a state where any changes made to her can be instantly recognized due to the bad state she's in.

Also keep in mind, most people aren't complaining about how she handles in early game, this is regarding late game & in late game 100% extra damage is honestly useless since enemy eHP scales way beyond the point where you'll actually see the difference.

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Not sure if you're still reading this thread, but I used to main zephyr pre-movement 2.0, but with the current movement meta, her passive really gets in the way. Reconsider making her aim glide floatier but her normal gravity stable. She's really great but just too hard to move around with and that's part of why she's so unpopular.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Keiji_Haku said:

Are you assuming its bad? Or hypothesizing its bad? Either way you should just "wait and see." What happens when they see you complain and then you get something worse then this?

What happens when you make the wrong call? Right now is a game of chance, DE already rolled the dice, we'll soon know the outcome.

It's really not a matter of chance. they've given us numbers, and unless they're just being opaque and withholding information, the stats they've given us aren't good. In their stream to show off how great it is, they shot things with a gun instead of really getting anything out of powers, and melted as soon as anything looked their way. We have evidence to tell us that Ember, with these changes, is going to be objectively worse, and if past experience tells us anything, it's that we'll be stuck with whatever they patch for at least a year before they look at it again.

I can hope all that I want that things will be better this time, but they haven't surprised me before.

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4 minutes ago, SteamlordD said:

It's really not a matter of chance. they've given us numbers, and unless they're just being opaque and withholding information, the stats they've given us aren't good. In their stream to show off how great it is, they shot things with a gun instead of really getting anything out of powers, and melted as soon as anything looked their way. We have evidence to tell us that Ember, with these changes, is going to be objectively worse, and if past experience tells us anything, it's that we'll be stuck with whatever they patch for at least a year before they look at it again.

I can hope all that I want that things will be better this time, but they haven't surprised me before.

That is very true, it's really hard to deny that when the Devs try their own ideas and it doesnt go well, that it's not a good one.

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8 minutes ago, Fate_Epsylon said:

To be fair, BornWithTeeth is on the right track.

Most of the things that have been done to Ember (minus a few direct buffs here and there) have turned out negatively & almost every time those Ember changes were coming, people saw it (the issues) ahead of time.

Right now, Ember's pretty much in a state where any changes made to her can be instantly recognized due to the bad state she's in.

Also keep in mind, most people aren't complaining about how she handles in early game, this is regarding late game & in late game 100% extra damage is honestly useless since enemy eHP scales way beyond the point where you'll actually see the difference.

Thats a problem with fire damage in general though, It doesn't stack like gas or scale from sources like slash

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