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Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited Part 2


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The changes on ember are the worst of all. There was nothing wrong with the frame to begin with. Who fricking stays in level 30 below missions anyway? WoF used to be the skill that saved me and my team mates a lot. It won't kill any mid to high level enemy, but the stunning (with full range) gave us enough time to reload, escape, use other frame's skills or whatever to get us out of a jam. Thinking that ember users just run around WoF'ing everything until extraction is a fallacy and very few do that because to build an effective ember you gotta have to forma it a lot and own rare mods. Only old timers can do that and most casual players (who make up most of your player base) won't bother sticking to one warframe. 

DON'T FIX IT IF AIN'T BROKE. smh

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So uh... Banshee is now a low level nuker. Press 4 nuke Hydron. I don't really see a nerf. It's more of a buff. No more waiting for it to stack up and the build no longer needs duration. I see this augment getting changed again. Resonating Quake... but it doesn't really resonate. It's just a short lived burst. Hmm.... :/

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On 2/7/2018 at 3:30 PM, [DE]Connor said:

BANSHEE:

  • Although still a singular cast allowing free movement, Resonating Quake will only hit enemies once as it expands outward, dealing a mass of damage at once.

This killed the RQ rework. It hits once, with very little damage, knocks down for a very short period of time (so it isn't even worth it for the CC) and cannot scale with duration. This will just make it so that people spam the ability with Natural Talent and we're back to square one - passive playstyle (people will just make macros for this and still AFK). The first change to the ability was so much better, as it was actually useful for crowd-control. Why did you decide to go back on it??? Now it promotes an AFK playstyle again, but this time we can actually keep it up forever by regenerating energy! Please revert it back to the first change.

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Small changes I'd want for Tailwind:

Have the hover effect happen after every use of the ability to help keep you in the air.

Tailwind could deal a status effect to all enemies hit by Tailwind depending on which Bullet jump mod you have equipped (Firewalker, Ice spring, Rending turn, etc.) and this damage could scale with the abilities damage. It'd be a nice visual add-on for the ability to have it show the equipped bullet jump mods visual effect and it would give the ability some cc and extra damage.. I guess you could take it a step further and have this apply to Air burst too.

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On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 6:02 AM, Neptlude said:

not anytime soon...

We probably get Octavia deluxe next....

I'll honestly be completely fine with that to be honest. I liked the Octavia deluxe skin they showed, though not too sure about that rifle skin. It'll look good with the Octavia skin, don't get me wrong but I don't see it going well with any of my other frames... other than saryn deluxe... maybe titania. And possible oberon deluxe. At anyrate, yeah regular Octavia is kinda hideous. Her abilities are great, but I don't play her often because... well... she looks weird af. Just sayin.

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1. I'll miss Ember, after going back so long with her, but it looks like Banshee has more or less taken her spot in that niche. I still stand by the statement that something in her kit needs to have defensive utility. World on Fire with its previous full range was still a fickle CC with limited targeting, which kept her interesting and engaging in higher level content - you had to actually pay attention and watch which enemies were affected and when you could strike. It was, to an extent, a skill-based defense - moreso than flat aoe CC abilities other frames have, at least. Let Fireblast nullify enemy projectiles passing through it, or let it be like a stationary Zephyr Turbulence. Let her passive feed off of heat damage (instead of getting hurt by it) into hp as well as energy, even going so far as to let her catch on fire from her own fire sources. Ember doing straight damage wasn't the strongpoint those of us that mained her really cared about. The damage was a bonus, but the passive yet fun CC was what I and many fell in love with. 

 

2. Atlas's Rubble mechanic feels pretty weak outside of extremely cramped corridors - can it be tweaked to be affected by power strength and vacuum? Players' 3m universal vacuum, at the very least. And while his Petrify looked nice on paper, it's proving to be quite a flimsy CC with how limited its range and angle are. Let that angle be affected by power range.

 

3. Honestly haven't tried Zephyr yet, but fans I've heard from seem to be pleased. 

 

4. Ash. [gritty action hero voice] We're back in business, baby! [/gritty action hero voice]

 

5. I'm finally able to legitimately have a good time running Mag, letting me finally enjoy that beautiful Pneuma skin of hers. The ugly duckling transformation is finally complete. 

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@[DE]Grineeer What a breath of fresh air!  I have been waiting for years for a pass like this.  You have done an incredible job on two fronts:

1. Made older frames/weapons relevant and fresh.

2. Substantially decreased the rampant use of exploited powers.

I know you didn't do it alone Scott, so kudos to you and your team.  I feel like more can be done with all Warframes however and I will rant about them in the spoiler block to below to avoid a massive text wall trivializing my compliments to you guys.

Spoiler

Okay, you made it here with me, the real reason I am doing this portion is conceptual; a playground of the mind if you will.

Have you ever played Monster Hunter? How about Minecraft.  On the surface they seem very simple games, but those who delve deep see the truth.  Warframe has depth, sure, but it is more like a deep ocean with dark, crushing chasms while the two games I mentioned above are like a hut in the woods with massive dungeon underneath it.  This is a concept similar to the old board game Mastermind.  Their catchphrase is "Seconds to learn, a lifetime to master", Minecraft and Monster Hunter are more like this.  A typical Minecraft player will start by building something and releasing some creativity then get bored and move on, but those that stick with will see an entire physics system that can be cleverly wielded after sufficient knowledge and become akin to a Sorcerer who has gained endless forbidden knowledge and is able to build secret doors and impressive contraptions.  Monster Hunter seems like a simple game up front, but it is an endless and cruel teacher using subtle cues to educate you on how to maximize your damage with a certain weapon.  A true master of Monster Hunter can take a low tier weapon to just about any fight and using the game's mechanics achieve the same results as any player.

Okay now onto Warframe, I have been with you for four and a half years now, maybe the full five.  I have been lucky enough to be there when the first systems were put into place and enjoy a gradual submersion, new players won't get that at all, it is like diving into the middle of the ocean, but if they dive long enough they will learn the ins and outs and eventually will become a denizen of the deep like me.  You have many down here with me we have mastered Warframe and its nuances.  We wait for new content and research it, buy it, master it and become idle again.  The basic mindless action and carnage of Warframe is one entertaining factor, but it isn't sustainable, there is something else missing, a depth below the sea floor.

I personally believe you can achieve this in a number of ways.  One of them is Warframe originality.  Meaning that each Warframe has similar function, but as you play it the more unique you come to realize each one is.  What if: Zephyr could double jump an unlimited number of times; what if: Ember regenerated health and energy when affected by heat damage; what if: Ash turned invisible for two seconds after a double jump and moved faster while invisible; what if: all of Mirage's move animations were swapped with gymnastic moves; what if: Banshee could use sonar that actually functions like sonar where you are continually pinging the environment for 1 energy per cast; WHAT IF! 

Its the quirks like these your team would benefit greatly from playing around with and opening up a mastery of skill beyond just using Warframes, but using a certain Warframe to truly become a master.  I guess if I were to boil this down to one phrase it would be: "Warframe has depth, but lacks substance in the deep"

Thanks for everything you do, I am humbled to be a part of this community and such an amazing game, even on these forums I have dumped hours creating fan concepts and theories.  

 

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On February 7, 2018 at 10:50 AM, LastRide said:

Pretty amazing changes. 

 

Volt still needs to be an alternative to gunplay tho, having a dps ult that even though we don't know how it performs on armored endgame since Reb tested against leech eximi aka "not even peacemaker kill those on a few hits" is the right way to go, but what about shock? 

No frame will EVER be an alternative and Volt is, in fact, a weapon AUGMENT frame...100% the opposite of that description.

 

Alternatives remove weapon need, and were phased out starting year 1 because DE wants you playing for and buying those weapons that exist at a 10:1 ratio to frames.

I don't want a half-baked year 1 Overload Volt.

It has no place in DE's current philosophical vision.  It will NEVER be strong enough to replace decent weapons or satisfy those players decrying more damage as the answer.

 They took out Mapwipe Miasma and Corpus Superkiller Mag and now WoF Ember really got hammered along with Banshee and Chroma.

I'm ok with the philosophical change, but this buff/nerf to Discharge goes directly against the evolving playstyle and philosophy of the game.

It's been heading this way for a long time and I just don't understand how DE doesn't recognize that the new Discharge will likely mislead newer players and disappoint vets in high level content?

Changes to discharge likely penalize Volt's augment synergy in exchange for killing slightly higher level mid-game enemies and actually make it even easier for him to die against high level enemies.

The net effect on squad synergy (aka oh great, a Volt, leaving squad now) is likely negative as well, because this "fast mover" will be even more vulnerable and has to slow or stop to keep himself alive!  Imagine it after casting "speed" where 75% of the frames affected are already faster.

Edited by (PS4)Silverback73
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17 hours ago, Muskyr said:

R.I.P. Ember and Banshee.

May Ash, Mag, Mirage, and Trinity be remembered.

Actually banshee its waaaaaaaaaaay more powerfull than before. Just remove continuity and replace if with blind rage and spam 4th ability. She kills more faster, more easily and with less energy per wave than before.

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1 minute ago, LonghornRed said:

I actually edited my comment sometime ago so I didn't see your reply to the original comment. I have successfully unsalted myself. Now I just need to convince ppl to stick together so they can share my buff. My real disappointment now is that it's not really an Aura such as Corrosive Projection but just and AoE like Elemental Ward.

 

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

Ah! My bad. Keep forgetting they are making Vex armor a aura now.

My apologies there.

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Good evening DE.
As a long time Zephyr main that originally started out on PS4

 

IGN: D_Salv000

 and made the switch to PC. I decided to with hold my opinion on her rework until I could get it in my hands and try it out. Now that I have i'll attempt to briefly go over my opinion on the matter.

1. Tailwind: I love what you all have done with tailwind so far however I do believe it could use a further tweak. I believe we need a to be able to cancel tailwind early in all directions. currently you can charge up tail wind and quickly cancel you're ascent by hitting the aim button. this is wonderful for hovering close to the ground for the durartion of the full ground charge but now we need to be able to take this a step further. Being able to cancel flight in all direction early in such a manner will greatly improve Zephyr's effective mobility and give some leniency on how the play can mod Zephyrs 1 for flight distances. 
 

2. Airburst: It's fair for what it can be used for now. i.e. keeping enemies from getting too close etc, but it cost to much too use consistently and efficiently without a full on efficiency build and honestly I personally find that unacceptable for something that feels vaguely as useful as other warframes 1 abilities. However I believe It could easily become more interesting with future augments. Please lower the cost to use this to 25 or so.

3. Turbulence: You made a cool casting animation to it without touching it. that's pretty damn cool. However if you would be so kind. can you increase it's duration please? it's kinda short. with 162% efficiency i'm getting 32s. If you don't wanna increase the duration can it at least be recast able while in use or something? some quality of life improvement? throw me a bone.

4. Tornado: Unfortunately I feel we still have a lot to talk about when it comes to this. First let me start off by stating I like the changes. the decision to improve the tornado ability to hold on to enemies is a good idea along with damage being dealt to the tornadoes transferring to the enemy. that said my thoughts come down to this.

 
 a. Tornado's still a fairly good crowd control ability, That said it's range for picking up enemies at base seems to be abysmal for something that's supposed to be a tornado. in addition to that though the ability for the tornado to hold on to enemies has improved It's still not nearly good enough. i've tried modding for this in various ways as well as using her 2 but was ultimately not impressed. it may work slightly better in corridors buts that's about it. Ideally I would prefer that once a enemy get's caught in a tornado. they would stay in them for the duration.


 b. As for damage dealing? i've tried everything short of adding Blind Rage naturally that included stacking both Intensify and Augur Secrets. at first when I heard the changes as to how damage was to be applied I was excited to test it out. However in the end I think the results still fell short. I was hoping that the damage dealt to the tornadoes scale on a 1:1 ratio in terms of effectiveness. but that doesn't seems to be the. As a after though, what if the damage dealt to the tornadoes was treated like head shots? Perhaps it could make up for the fact that we can't go for head shots once they're in the tornado perhaps that will even out the damage difference. i.e. damage dealt to tornado * head-shot multiplier


 c. finally I notice that you can not steer the tornado while holding a melee weapon I hope this is changes as this is really unfortunate.

In closing I feel Zephyr still needs some work. However I do believe she's in a better place than she was before we started. It can only get better from here. keep up the good work and thanks for your time.

Edited by NEUDRIVER101
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This ember 'balance' didnt work well, so the point was to make it sortieable, but in lower levels leave some enemy for the others, but now its cant be further from sortie, and yes now you can struggle in low levels too... i understand it needed some balance, like closer range, but it was a key elemnt in warframe what i like, that you can be OP, you can just go trough levels like a bulldozer, and other frames still can do... i just have to gave up my favorite warframe? and can i get my money back for tenno gen skin? i didint pay for this new ember...

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7 hours ago, LonghornRed said:

Vex Armor isn't working properly, I think. All I know is that my armor increases, but not my weapon damage when I take Health Damage.

Update: turns out it's the armor making it difficult to accumulate Fury so I can get the maximum buff. That's why I was having such a hard time noticing the weapon damage increase.

try a cerata

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