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Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited Part 2


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On 2/11/2018 at 2:43 PM, kerge13 said:

This ember 'balance' didnt work well, so the point was to make it sortieable, but in lower levels leave some enemy for the others, but now its cant be further from sortie, and yes now you can struggle in low levels too... i understand it needed some balance, like closer range, but it was a key elemnt in warframe what i like, that you can be OP, you can just go trough levels like a bulldozer, and other frames still can do... i just have to gave up my favorite warframe? and can i get my money back for tenno gen skin? i didint pay for this new ember...

Just because they ruined one ability doesn't mean the Warframe any less bad.

Accelerant is a better ability anyway. And it can provide you AND your team massive damage boosts, meaning a higher rate of DPS than WoF... And the plus side, is that your team actually gets to play the game, instead of making it a boring walking simulator.

Edited by InFiNiTe-Sensei
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I have an idea for World on Fire. Why not bring back the damage reduction portion of Overheat? For those of us that don't remember that old ability...

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Overheat

Since Ember's new World on Fire forces her into close combat with enemies, this would be the perfect survival tool to bring back into her kit after a long absence. When her World on Fire ramps up, the damage reduction could ramp up from zero as well, providing real benefits for maintaining it at max power.

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The whole point of WoF and Firequake is to stun enemies BEFORE THEY EVEN GET CLOSE TO YOU because ember is squishy. Stop crying about low level blah blah blah. No one stays in low levels because it doesn't give crap. Low level missions are like girls you met in summer. You hang out and then move on after. WoF for me is a skill that HELPS ME AND MY TEAMMATES get out of a jam (like Rhino's Stomp), reload, a bit of time to escape or cast a skill in partnership with it. I don't need it to do high damage because I have my weapons to do that for me. I spent a lot of time, effort and skins for this frame and now it's basically useless for me. I tried all the other mods (flash accelerant, energy conversion and others), but I still like the old Firequake. If you find it a boring walking simulator, we have 30+ other frames for you to play. smh

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For Ember...

The WoF nerf isn't strong enough. A simple 100D/175E/250R/170P build easily kills everything on most maps up to level 30+. Bullet jump ahead and the rest of the team still will be lucky to see an enemy, it's terrible. The energy drain that increases from an initial 0.75/sec to whatever it's maximum is laughed at by a Primed Flow. Soooo... More Nerf Plz? (I don't think anyone has ever said that before haha...)

HOWEVER: The new "Fireball" is a wondrous thing, especially the charging up to make a larger one. But please please DE, make this new functionality affected by mods. Duration for the Fireball charge time and/or the amount of time the napalm-effect lasts. Range for the size of the initial blast and/or the size of the napalm-effect? Power and efficiency boost would be obvious. This would truly make her a "caster frame" that some of us have always wanted. To hell with WoF, I want a Fireball-throwing goddess.

 

... Pretty please? (I've played a long time but never posted or asked for anything directly like this...)

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Ember:

As expected Ember is our new Ash. The changes fixed nothing and made her only more clunky to use. The only thing you did manage is to reduce her already weak lategame viability even more. Either do a full rework of her, which would probably for the best and turn her into something akin to Nidus (Synergy, Survivability, Potency, Damage Potential, Caster, AoE focussed), or reverse the changes until you figured out what to do with her without gimping her.

Banshee:

Resonating Quake is quite pointless after this change. It neither deals sufficient damage, nor does it CC enemies even closely enough to be of any use. If you're unlucky, you're stuck longer in the casting animation than the enemies remain CC'd.

Atlas:

I like the changes, but I feel there needs to be done more. His energy drain is quite drastic if you get into full swing, punching away at dudes while petrifying them. On the other hand, if you're not at full swing, his new passive drains quite quickly, so you basically have to make the decision between keeping your passive up and burning through your whole energy pool. As such, I'd like to suggest a few changes:

Petrify

  • Tweak Petrify's animation to flow better with Landslide, so you don't come to a full stop every time you cast Petrify.
  • Change Petrify to halt Landslide's combo decay, so casting Petrify does not mean losing your stacked Landslide energy reduction and damage increase.

Landslide

  • Change Landslide to halt the decay of the Rubble passive, so that you can keep your passive longer without burning through so much energy.

Rubble Passive

  • Make the Passive twofold: The first 500 Armor Atlas collects do not decay for the rest of the mission (indicated by the ring filling white), the other 1000 Armor will decay as usual (indicated by the ring filling blue over the white)
  • Make Rubble Vacuum-able

Zephyr:

I have only tested her in the plains so far, but I like where she is heading. Here are some ideas to make her even better:

Tail Wind

  • Drastically increase the charge up when getting off the ground, maybe even remove the need to charge completely
  • Increase the angle at which Dive Bomb can be activated
  • Allow Tail Wind while in the air to be cancelled
  • Change Dive Bomb to be activated when holding the button

Air Burst

  • Change Air Burst from a projectile into an instant effect at your crosshairs
  • Inverse Air Burst's effect and make it ragdoll enemies towards the center, instead of ragdolling them away

Volt:

Volt is good. And that is the issue I have with him, he is good, but not great. Here are some ideas to make him great:

Static Discharge

  • Replace the hard cap of the passive with a soft cap, continuously decreasing the stored damage if it is over 1000, the faster the higher the stored damage is.
  • Add a lightning strike as visual

Shock

  • Allow Shock to be continuously cast, dealing moderate damage with moderate energy drain. Don't make it so strong that it completely overshadows the single cast

Electric Shield

  • Allow Electric Shield to be charged up to a cap by continuously casting Shock on it, increasing the damage enemies will receive when passing through the shield. When the cap is reached, proc the electricity stun on all enemies passing through the shield.
  • Make Players affected by Speed that are passing through an Electric Shield to dash forwards for a few meters, similar to the Operator's Void Dash.

Discharge

  • Allow players to increase the damage a Tesla Coil-ed enemy deals to himself and all other units affected by continuously firing Shock at said enemy. The damage increase has no cap, meaning that the damage can be increased until the Tesla Coil effect ends or the enemy dies.

While some changes may seem grossly overpowered, like the ability to stack the damage of Tesla Coil indefinitely, they are in fact not, as the damage of Tesla Coil for example is limited by the duration of Discharge, the amount of damage each tick of Shock adds to Tesla Coil and the health of the enemy that is Tesla Coil-ed.

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So... talking about Ember. They've completely failed at changing her how they intended to. With the right mod setup it is still press 4 and forget. All this change did was hurt her survivability on high level content. The range loss for Firequake really hurts. My suggestion still stands, if she placed WoF on the ground instead and it slowly expanded outward, instead of the opposite of what it currently is, it would be much better. Fire spreads doesn't it? So why did DE make it shrink? Makes no sense. It's World on Fire, not the fire is going out. XD

Adding a new animation for this would be nice too. Fireblast already punches the ground. :)

Edited by TwilitAngel
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29 minutes ago, TwilitAngel said:

So... talking about Ember. They've completely failed at changing her how they intended to. With the right mod setup it is still press 4 and forget. All this change did was hurt her survivability on high level content. The range loss for Firequake really hurts. My suggestion still stands, if she placed WoF on the ground instead and it slowly expanded outward, instead of the opposite of what it currently is, it would be much better. Fire spreads doesn't it? So why did DE make it shrink? Makes no sense. It's World on Fire, not the fire is going out. XD

Adding a new animation for this would be nice too. Fireblast already punches the ground. :)

This right here is maybe the thing they might respond to. As I said in another thread, DE, you achieved neither of your design goals for the Ember changes. 

You can still clear low-level missions with her while eating a hoagie, as long as you have a toe free to push W, and she's no better at the high levels. Her powers are now just more inconvenient to build for. 

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15 hours ago, InFiNiTe-Sensei said:

Just because they ruined one ability doesn't the Warframe any less bad.

Accelerant is a better ability anyway. And it can provide you AND your team massive damage boosts, meaning a higher rate of DPS than WoF... And the plus side, is that your actually gets to play the game, instead of making it a boring walking simulator.

In other words gimp an ability, so people that like playing that way can't then make them play another way.  Square plug round hole is what you propose.

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Hello again DE
 

After further testing and building with Zephyr i've come to a conclusion. Zephyr's kind of wonky to build for. Below are suggestion I would greatly appreciate for you all to take under consideration, PLEASE.

DE, can you make Turbulence a channeling ability? Turbulence does not offers enough as a un-augmented ability to warrant it's short duration in light of the hoops you have to jump through in order to get it's duration somewhat above 30sec. This is in account of for trying to mod for Tailwinds, flight duration and Air Burst cost efficiency while using Fleeting Expertise, and before Narrow Minded which sacrifices it's effective range which hurts the abilities defensive properties. Only to than try and patch it up with Overextended which hurts it's augments properties overall... In short trying to mod Zephyr's Tailwind as it currently is, along with her other abilities in addiction to her limited energy pool is a nightmare and if you were to make it a channeling ability it would be a overall quality of life improvement for her modding situation in general.

Now in regards to Tailwind Augment: I propose either 1 of 2 things.
Proposal 1. Make Tailwind properties inherently a part of Turbulence by default. My reasoning behind this is simple. It frees up a mod slot for those that use Zephyr Turbulence exclusively because of Tailwinds augmentation of turbulence and for those that don't want turbulence speed buff. they can opt out by using Overextends Power Strength reduction while buffing Turbulence area of effect. Doing this also allows opens up the opportunity for Turbulence to get a new augment.

Proposal 2. Make Tailwinds speed boost at base much higher than it currently is so that it's not as reliant on the of additional power strength mods much like it currently is.

With that I would like to bring this post to a close. Thank you for the time you took to read this post and I hope you all have a wonderful and productive day.

P.S. to amend my previous statement made in this thread in regards to Air Burst. The cost of Air Burst at 50 energy before streamline is not bad in light of the idea of Turbulence becoming a channeling ability because this should allow for more frequent casting along side all her other abilities with a max efficiency build.

P.S.S. I'm beginning to like the new ability Air Burst in it's current form more and more as I use it. Thanks for the new ability! 

P.S.S.S. Okay, well if you could improve the travel time of Air Burst that would be nice too. (Please don't make the travel time based off of modding PLEASE.) Thank you.

Edited by NEUDRIVER101
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...From experience with going with a bunch of randoms against a Teralyst, Chroma is no longer effective. His buffs are negligible ever since the update to the point where he dies as soon as he tries to make the buff meaningful (because Vex Armor needs to receive damage to become stronger). His teammates might not even notice anything either.

Not to mention his 1 and 2 still have little to no significance or usefulness, aside from his 2 being a bit of extra health on demand and 1 being a free proc button. In addition, the numbers generated by Vex Armor are now either inaccurate or meaningless.

What I think can fix that:

Spoiler

Jumbled overview:
In my opinion, to fix this, Chroma's 3 should have no upper limit on himself (which would not only make it able to give back the destructive power he had initially, but also make the power worth recasting, like Harrow's 3 if it's energy-on-kills was to stack if recast ontop of itself before its duration ended), his 1/2/4's damage should also add any elemental damage mods equipped on weapons equipped on Chroma, and his passive should be an alt-ability which can be swapped by charging up his 2 so he can have a weaker version of a Sentient damage resist for his passive so he can survive.
Focused list:
1: Vex Armor no longer has a limit, but instead has faster scaling based on power strength, range, and duration, for Chroma only, but his team will still get the unaltered buff.
-This would make Chroma's 3 worth recasting, much like Harrow's 2 and 3 (if Harrow's 3 had the power to stack energy gains on top of itself, you'd see why, but it still has its reasons for being recasted even without that little bit extra).
2: Any damage from Chroma's abilities (except that extra gained from his 3) will also take elemental mods and status mods into consideration.
-Chroma's 1, 2's elemental damage aura, and 4's damage output will finally kill enemies in Sortie level margins.
3: Turn Elemental Mastery from a mere passive into an ability.
- This is accessed like how Vauban or Ivara swaps through alt sub-powers which, now it's not bound to his energy colour, allows him to be more fluid fashion-wise (sub-power icons would use the element icons).
4: Introduce new passive: Adapting Pelt.
-If one particular status type (IPS/elementals) is dealing the most damage, Chroma will gain a 10% resistance to that damage type and become immune to its status effect for 10 seconds (enhanced by duration and strength mods). Only works when pelt is either near Chroma or is on Chroma.
5: Spectral Scream alt-fire (charged ability).
-Chorma channels a scream (uses Pelt stun ability) which stuns enemies and exposes them to finishers.

These changes would open Chroma to new methods of combat in addition to restoring previous functionality.

 

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regarding zephyr:

tailwind

  • speed up charge speed
  • during hover, allow for slow movement, the frozen in place thing just feels jarring
  • allow there to be some way to refresh hovering in the air, probably just let us charge tailwind in the air
  • repeatable aerial melee attack would kind of be nifty
  • a chargeable divebomb pulling in nearby enemies would kind of be nifty

Airburst

  • lowering energy cost or giving it an impact damage system like snowglobe would kind of be nifty
  • it lacks a certain je ne sais quoi, yeah not really helpful, i'm sorry

 

let me go full DBZyphr :heart:(ability to hide staticore while in use wouldn't hurt either)

and again, speeding up nezha's chacram flight speed would be a nice thing to consider in the future

Edited by KlutzMeister
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Can the rubble created from atlas’ petrified enemies be vacuum friendly please? it’s a real pain to pick up since you have to be pretty much directly over it if you want to get anywhere. Also the only real way to petrify enemies is by using petrify, so don’t change it or need it it’s good as it is - even if it’s a little energy hungry. the range in his 4 for petrification is kind of useful but could do with a little bit more range, since it’s only really useful against infested rn. Otherwise, great atlas rework. Also maybe reduce the decay slightly since it’s very hard to get over the 500 armour level since it seems smth decay faster at lower levels idk maybe I’m paranoid but I think it’s a bit quick 

Edited by PvtMaguire
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ember needs readjustments :/ 
her survivability took a major hit and she hogs so much energy now

stat  suggestions
-add base armor to 200 or increased health to 925 with  max vitality

WoF suggestions
-add damage reduction that scales with the percentage meter with at maximum 75-85% damage reduction aka firearmor
-reduce the efficiency loss abit
-add a range diminish cap (7m WoF with base range is insane disadvantage) 13-15m suggested
-other abilities now gain double damage aswell with the percentage meter going up

Fireball suggestions
-make the  charge toggle and release instead of hold and release
really sluggish to use right now
-increase projectile speed

Fireblast suggestion
now gives some extra protection when standing in middle of it

accelerant suggestion
if enemies are on fire casting accelerant now makes them do fire explosion spreading the fire to other enemies in the process

passive suggestion
enemies that are on fire now have increased chance of dropping energy orbs when killed

just some ideas how improve her

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That's a long post. Thanks in advance for those who will read it. :)

Ash, Gara, Hydroid, Mirage, Rhino, Zephyr; I like the changes.  Especially for Zephy and Ash. Good job!

Banshee:

Her new augment is very underwhelming, and her base kit is still problematic to me. Her 1 and 2 are fine, but:

- her 3 lacks control

- her 4 is boring and unfair, compared to other ultimates

- her passive is too strong, when compared to other ones. I know I will get backfire for this, but I think it's the truth.

- overall, her kit is craving for synergy.

My suggestions:

- make her passive activate for X seconds after casting a power or something (not all the time)

- Silence should be a modifier of powers (when loud, Banshee has the powers we know. When silenced, Sonic Boom disarms instead of ragdolling, Sonar marks lootable elements instead of enemies and allows to see traps and interactive stuff through walls, Sound Quake enhance the Tenno abilities range instead of dealing damage to enemies (they still have a chance to be knockbacked or knockdowned)

- Silence should just trigger the stun+unawareness on an Area of Effect around a target killed by Banshee (with a weapon). The stun is renewed/refreshed for each kill.

- Banshee should be able to walk away after marking a zone for her Sound Quake. Her stunlock needs to go, the ability itself should just have a small chance to proc Impact or Blast Status (the damage type could be split between this two, too?). The ability would just diminish and disappear through time (like the seismic replicas). The Augment Resonating Quake would allow Banshee to maintain the quake (range and max effects indefinitely) on the marked zone, with an energy drain.

- Plz use the sound of Sound Quake that we've seen in the trailer for Banshee Prime! #wubwubwub <3

Atlas

Very good set overall! I really like the changes. I have just one suggestion for his 2d power:

- If we punch in the wall, it would explode and deal explosive damage around (ragdolling enemies). With the augment, punching a wall would make explode all of them at once. It would add to the Augment new possibilities.

Chroma

I still don't understand why his ultimate is so expensive, energy drain-wise. Chroma already looses a lot of armor for it, no need for so much pain. Actually, i think his ulti should be a 1-cast time, then the Effigy remains as long as it has health, or we cancel it. No energy drain.

We  could also heal the Effigy by targetting it with our 1st power, and make it roar by firing at it (or meleeing it)

Ember

She's way more team-friendly now, but I think it's a shame that she's all "burn-burn-burn-and-oh?-burn". I mean, if we look at Saryn, her theme is "toxic" but she utilizes many aspects/variation of it (viral, toxins, gas, corrosive). The fire element can also cauterize, blind, trigger explosions, create smoke. Why not play with those, to diversify her kit?

Fireball: should use Blast instead of Fire for the first instance of damage (then the burning furnace deals fire damage).

Accelerant: Should be a buff for all elemental damage types (just a much lower percentage than currently to keep the same "DPS"), and their chance of status on enemies affected. More weapons and team-friendly.

Fire Blast: the plasma on the ground should ignites Ember if she walks back in her flame circle. It would deal damage to her, but it would trigger her passive. Her ignition ends as soon as she leaves her circle. Like Frost and his SnowGlobe, if Ember fires her FireBall into the circle of plasma, it will consume all of it, and release a huge cloud of Gas Damage.

World on Fire: the range should shrink down until 0: Ember becomes then covered by a burning skin of embers, cauterizing any status effect before they could harm her (immune), and blinding enemies targetting her with guns (either completely, or just a huge reduction of their precision), or igniting enemies touching her (either by her moves, or by their melee attacks). Under this state, her melee damage is greatly increased with Fire damage. All of this is a wink to her long-gone armor power, and would make her viable for a savage-melee approach of combat.

Voilà. I think that with all these adjustments, Ember will be much more interesting to play, with lots of possibilities/styles, more in line with Saryn's versatility, and even more team-friendly than currently.

The things I highly want to see for future retunes (of course, that's personal, there are many good suggestions out there):

No... That's not a lot.

Nezha's Divine Spears (4th): Inflict a forced bleed on impaled enemies, based on a percent of their health (allows scaling of the ability) + impale them onto the GROUND! Why would divine spears come from the ground? They should come from the sky \o/ (way more convenient to trigger ground finishers).

Nezha's "Explosion" (currently bound to his 1, while activating the teleportation): Let us trigger it with the Warding Halo instead, please!!! When Nezha teleports, he sacrifices his Warding halo to trigger a big explosion (damage scaled on the health remaining in the Halo). WHY? Because it'll allow him to renew his protection (the only thing that is keeping him alive). This single change would make him great again at last!

Equinox's powers (3 and 4) being kept active while transitionning from a form to another. Plz.

Equinox Day's Maim (4th): the Stun AND Slash Procs should happen when we release the Slashing Waves (slash damage based on all the damage stored-inflicted). This would make the Day form more vulnerable, but with more control, and more power in the end. The current state of this power doesn't make sense.

Equinox Night's Pacify (3d): The energy drain is insane, the power is unusable in any situation where we would need it. I say: this power should have a flat drain, regardless of the numbers of enemies affected. No other power does that. It's unfair.

Equinox Day's Provoke Augment (3d): Should speed up allies, instead of another buff of the Ability Strength. Who said "the Augments shouldn't be just straight buffs of the original ability"? ;)

Equinox Day's Rage (2d): should stun the enemies at cast.

Titania's Tribute (2d): should affect a group of enemies, instead of one! This ability is soooo painful oh my god I can't even...

Nekros's Soul Punch (1st): the souls hit by this power are to be stored into the Soul Pool of the ultimate (even if not killed). Please allow us to Soul Punch up to 5 targets while maintaining the button of the power (marking targets like the ultimate of Ash), then Soul Punches are distributed when we release it.

Wukong's Iron Jab (1st): allow us to make the spinning top when maintaining the button of this power, dealing reduced damage but in a 360¬į angle. All targets are knocked down by the whirlwind, open for ground finishers.

Wukong's Cloud Walker (3d): allow us to channel (default melee channeling) when under this form, to greatly increase our speed at the expense of extra energy drain. When channeling, the cloud can deceive the Spy Lasers.

Excalibur's Radial Javelin (3d): make it a defensive ability (a round of dancing blades that mitigate incoming damage) that we can disperse (by pressing 3 again) in the current Radial javelin attack.

Excalibur's Exalted Blade (4th): remove the auto-parry feature, it's counter-intuitive/bad for the learning of new players. Replace the small blind of the spin-attack by a 180¬į wave with lower damage, but guaranteed status chance.

Excalibur's Radial Blind (2d): make it a duration ability: Excalibur becomes shiny when using it, releasing Blinding pulses each X seconds, and smaller ones when he uses a power. This would balance the fact that this ability requires line of sight, and cannot affect some enemies, unlike the invisibility. The small pulses will also rewards the players who use his other powers.

Vauban's Tesla (1st): make it also a scrollable ability, with Fireworks, Nitrogen Tube, and Dart. Those traps function the same way (single target zap), except they deal Fire, Ice or Toxin damage.

Vauban's passive: instead of base upon the number of allies around, make the armor buff based on the number of different grenade types deployed.

Trinity's Well of Life (1st): Should be a power castable on Tenno: greatly increases the health pool and grants an effect similar to Quick Thinking for the duration. Can be cast either on allies (aiming them) or self.

The End.
(for now)

****

Edited by Yaerion
Corrections.
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On Volt's discharge a little duration increase would be good. The new 6 sec base duration a little low 8-9 sec would be good and some more interaction when we shock discharged enemys. A little shock damage bump would be nice too :)

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1 hour ago, (PS4)OmegaSlayer said:

Ember is more or less the same under level 30, but it's useless over level 30.

It's not only the energy costs, it's not only the convoluted modding, it's the non useful skillset as a whole.

I just hope somebody at DE finally realizes that they managed to kill no birds, with two stones. Neither of their desired outcomes were met by the Ember changes.

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I love what you guys did to Atlas, I really never used him before the rework, but now, I will use him frequently for sure!, but i have a bug to report: When you have rubble armor, and your health is low, every new rubble you pick up don't heal atlas, instead, it adds to the armor.
Rubble should heal first independent of the amount of armor Atlas has.

Second: Why his armor decays? Let it capped, it's ok. But let it stay like Inaros Scarab Armor and decay with every hit it takes.

 

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