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Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited Part 2


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Hi DE and Forum people :0)
 
My thoughts and suggestion for Ember during this rant/feedback below
 
Disclaimer: I'm not a Ember main, I use every frame in the game. I have never used Ember for CC in late game, nor run her with anything more than 145% range, Other frames do it better
 
Lets get to the point:
I can see DE's side (fun killer for low level stuff and I agree) I can see (without having to see the changes ingame) that as many have said, this WoF change kills her late game CC/survivability (I also agree with them too)
 
The Main Problem: (no offense intended)
The WAY DE change things. What do I mean? When they change things (for better or worse) they either take the lazy way (like current changes, nerf this, half that and double this, Just like Valkyr) which upsets a large group of players / or they totally rework a power set and in most cases it works even better at achiving what they set out to do, and most people like it, Saryn? But it will always upset someone, specially short sighted players and p42win no matter what. lol
 
Suggestions:
Yes I read this whole thread and a couple of others and these are not my ideas, but are me adding my support
 
(DE lazy version)
Ember
Fireball: normal cast works as always has, Charged attack give you a napam fire (no extra energy cost, the delay in casting time is enough) Augment: as is now.

Accelerant: stays as is and it's augment, it works just fine

Fireblast: Make it an AoE patch of fires on the ground that works like hallowed ground effected by PS for damage/Range/Dur. Standing on the AoE gives you added fire damage to weapons and DR(DR effected by PS). DR capped @ 75% max.
 
WoF:(channeled ability)#1Remove damage period! An AoE that has 100% fire proc chance that lasts 8 seconds effected by duration. Gives DR effected by PS, Capped @85%. Range:75% of what is was b4 changes. Power cost reverts back to what it was (effected by eff/dur). Augment: works as it has always done.
 
These changes are easy and lazy but fix what DE intended from the start(nerf the p42win early game), but also DOES NOT ruin the late game CC builds without giving stupid range, But it also helps Ember survivablity in both a defensive and mobile game play
 
REWORK suggestion: (the non lazy idea)
 
Fireball: is a napalm blast leaving an AoE lasting 6 seconds(effected by PS/Range/Dur all TBD) Augment: adds 100% base fire damage to allies (powers only) for 40seconds @ 50% energy cost.

Accelerant: work as is now (the power is just fine as is) Augment: cast on (allies only) gives +50% cast speed +30% base weapon IPS/element total as fire damage (standard 30 secs)

World on fire: (Renamed from Fireblast) An AoE patch of fires on the ground. Enemies within the AoE take X damage and X damage per second for 6 seconds and damage is effected by PS. While standing on WoF AoE all players will gain 50% of base fire damage to all weapons(including exaulted weapons)and 75% damage reduction.(dur 25seconds range 15m and both effected by mods)Augment: as is now but Ember gets a small energy gain for each enemy killed on the AoE (but not if channeled abilties are being used)

Exalted Fire: Ember turns into a fire goddess that is opaque and covered in flames. (There is 2 parts to this ability so read on please)Part1: While in this channeled ability all weapons are disabled, But hitting the fire key/trigger her hand shoots out a flamethrower stream in a cone shape. (Base damage and range TBD). The weapon is also effected by mods on her primary weapon.
Part2: While in this ability ember has a intense aura of heat giving all enemy within X range a 100% fire proc (range TBD). Also the aura makes Ember hard to target, hence giving her a 90% hard capped DR (not effected by mods) to all incoming damage (some procs TBD) Energy costs TBD, but I believe the costs should be what it was before the current ember changes. Augment: remains the same as is now (100% knockdown when within the range  of the aura)

I think both sets of powers fix what DE and Players want. Nothing is OP and nor a map wide fun killer
 
Thanks for reading, keep it civil people :0)
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I need to reiterate some points about Atlas: 

1) Rubble - the decay is still too fast.  It's impossible to keep up the rubble unless you're in a survival mission... making it impossible to use this mechanic in other mission types. My suggestion to fix it would be to cut it down heavily or just remove the decay altogether and make it so you discharge rubble when you push the tectonics into a boulder.

2)  Landslide - fine as it is

3) Tectonics - no idea on a better alternative yet. The boulder is still useless and clumsy to use. The augment prevails. 

4) Petrify - it is too energy expensive to keep rubble up... the POV should be increased slightly from 60 to 90 degrees to make it easier to use. I end up missing some enemies that are next to me because i'm too close to them. 

5) Rumblers - doesn't synergize well with fleeting expertise which is necessary given the energy cost to keep rubble up.w

6) Ore gaze - the nerf is too much, with this energy cost and small range i would say drop it to 40% instead. range doesn't synergize well with other abilities so if using this augment you're already sacrificing other abilities...

 

 

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This post may seem harsh, but that's my honest opinion. Don't get sad, i don't hate you new players. But still, i hate DE never considering veterans and listening to crybabies that have still to learn how to play (i'm looking at you, beloved Synoid Simulor). Don't get me wrong, i get it that veterans are less likely to spend even more money into the game, as we already have everything, but show some love. Like the arcanes drop on eidolons. People had to work hard to get them, max 3 per day, and now what was a end-game content is basically ffa---but back to the topic: 

Just fix the matchmaking. You decided to kill a warframe instead of the core problem. You destroyed Ember so that she couldn't kill stuff a low levels too quickly. Low levels mean the players are low mastery rank (why would i play anything low level there is nothing to gain there). Spoiler: Ember is still killing stuff at low levels. Parkour is something noobs don't know how to do yet. Way less range, kappa, but we (players used to the game) can bullet jump and move around much faster than any newbie. And still kill everything before they even see them, as they are waaaaaay behind me. So nothing changed there. What changed is the high level game content. Ember is made of paper. If i don't knock down that bombard with Firequake before he sees me, i'm dead. No escape, his missile is homing. Or the hitscan corpus. Or whatever, Firequake has not even point anymore. 

So, "make a good deed, i pay you for it". fix the matchmaking and revert Ember destruction. Make noobs play with noobs, so none of them know how to play and they can finish their exterminations in 15 minutes as they apparently like. And i can keep myself alive if i decide to play Ember.

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After a bit of playtesting, Chroma is fine but is now... unremarkable.

His first ability is still too weak... It's fine against low-level enemies but I still won't use it and I doubt anyone will (I have better use of my energy). Maybe it should benefit from beam weapon mods? It would make sense and make it way more fun to play with. A longer breath which makes enemies explodes would be worth the energy.

His second and third abilities are good. Maybe giving them a slightly better range and duration would be nice?

His fourth is... Not good enough? Just like his first ability, it's good but most often than not, it's not worth the energy...  Sicen Chroma is now a team frame, why not go all the way and make the effigy boost the team? Why not make the effigy give all the possible bonus of Elemental Ward (of the four elements, no matter the colour of Chroma) s long as the ward is active on Chroma? Why not use it as a beacon for Vex Armor for the other player as long as the ability is active on Chroma? Why not boost the damages of the effigy's breath as long as Chroma is himself breathing? It promotes synergies between the effigy and the other skills and will further improve Chroma's new role in teams. It will also makes him a bit tankier (an aspect of the frame that many players miss).

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There seems to be an issue with Atlas's 2 augment, Tectonic Fracture, and the new synergy with Petrify. When the augment is equipped Petrify does not turn the Bulwarks into Petrified Bulwarks.

Edit: Never mind. It seems I misunderstood what Petrified Bulwarks did. I assumed they gained armor or damage reduction or something. They just do more damage as boulders.

Then, suggestion: Make Petrified Bulwarks have more health/damage reduction or something.

It would also be nice if Petrify healed them in the same way it does Rumblers. Reasoning: Tectonics is one of the smaller and less covering 'wall' abilities (compare to Snow Globe and Mass Vitrify). I don't think it'd be unbalanced if Atlas were able to heal his Bulwarks.

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 Ember s 4 is horrible you have to have the max efficiency to even think about casting it and well the damage buff is nice i cant hit anyone withit without droping other mods i need for range rip ember  now on to the big issue why is nezha being treated like the unwanted red step child sibling to rhino  nezhas 3 needs recast and until it gets it wont be playable in sorties without risking a 1 shot maybe 2 hit well trying to get rid o hardly any of 3 to recast  #stopnezhasuicde   only you can  do it de...

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On 15/02/2018 at 1:29 PM, Ham_Grenabe said:

I just hope somebody at DE finally realizes that they managed to kill no birds, with two stones. Neither of their desired outcomes were met by the Ember changes.

Some of us (including me) were telling them that the rework would cause what we have now (nerf at high level, same at low level) in part 1 of this thread....that was before they even released the 'reworks' yet they still released them as is.. you have to wonder how/why DE couldn't see how badly the rework failed at it's intended task during in house testing when lots of us could see it before they even released it.... 

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If I can make just ONE CHANGE to ember, just one change that can make a big difference for ember's viability is making accelerant's stun scale with power duration. If DE just implements this into ember, without changing any of her other abilities, I can be satisfied with her rework. In the meantime, I truly believe she is the new mag.

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On 2/15/2018 at 12:41 PM, Nafraat said:

After a bit of playtesting, Chroma is fine but is now... unremarkable.

His first ability is still too weak... It's fine against low-level enemies but I still won't use it and I doubt anyone will (I have better use of my energy). Maybe it should benefit from beam weapon mods? It would make sense and make it way more fun to play with. A longer breath which makes enemies explodes would be worth the energy.

His second and third abilities are good. Maybe giving them a slightly better range and duration would be nice?

His fourth is... Not good enough? Just like his first ability, it's good but most often than not, it's not worth the energy...  Sicen Chroma is now a team frame, why not go all the way and make the effigy boost the team? Why not make the effigy give all the possible bonus of Elemental Ward (of the four elements, no matter the colour of Chroma) s long as the ward is active on Chroma? Why not use it as a beacon for Vex Armor for the other player as long as the ability is active on Chroma? Why not boost the damages of the effigy's breath as long as Chroma is himself breathing? It promotes synergies between the effigy and the other skills and will further improve Chroma's new role in teams. It will also makes him a bit tankier (an aspect of the frame that many players miss).

I beg to differ......Chroma is not fine, he is outclassed by Rhino in each area now.  Tankiness - Rhino, Team Buff - Rhino.  Removing the extra damage error that Chroma benefitted from makes him a poor choice to use going forward.  Seriously why choose him over Rhino now?  There is no reason to.

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Il y a 5 heures, (Xbox One)DevilishSix a dit :

I beg to differ......Chroma is not fine, he is outclassed by Rhino in each area now.  Tankiness - Rhino, Team Buff - Rhino.  Removing the extra damage error that Chroma benefitted from makes him a poor choice to use going forward.  Seriously why choose him over Rhino now?  There is no reason to.

 

Even if Rhino was better than chroma in raw damage boost (I'd say it depends on your build and even then it's not that much of a difference in my playtest but maybe I tested the wrong builds?), Rhino cannot share his tankiness to other people nor other bonus than plain damages. Rhino doesn't have the flexibility of Chroma.

Chroma can buff armour, shield, life or reload speed (while doing damages to surrounding enemies) with his ward IN ADDITION TO boosting damage and armour with Vex.

The range and duration of these two abilities should be improved so the team can easily benefit from these though.

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5 hours ago, Nafraat said:

 

Even if Rhino was better than chroma in raw damage boost (I'd say it depends on your build and even then it's not that much of a difference in my playtest but maybe I tested the wrong builds?), Rhino cannot share his tankiness to other people nor other bonus than plain damages. Rhino doesn't have the flexibility of Chroma.

Chroma can buff armour, shield, life or reload speed (while doing damages to surrounding enemies) with his ward IN ADDITION TO boosting damage and armour with Vex.

The range and duration of these two abilities should be improved so the team can easily benefit from these though.

Sorry but to even get those benefits, Chroma has to take damage and he is not staying alive in practice long enough for teammates to see those bonuses.  I am seeing lots of posts complaining that they can't use Chroma hunting on eidolyn hunting as he is not self sustaining enough anymore.  DE messed up the Vex Armor to much with the calculations to scorn.

But at the end of the day you can have your opinion.  I know what mine is.  Chroma is messed up and they better fix him before that Primed version drops or DE maybe disappointed in the revenue they make off him.

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I'm still waiting to see if there's going to be any further changes made to the recently reworked frames or if we're going into another situation where we'll need to keep complaining so we get something done a year+ later.... it's funnily enough gone radio silent again.

It's pretty clear to anyone who plays the game that most need some more 'refinement'

Ash.. most of us seem to want teleport 'delinking' from bladestorm and for it to use another press of the 4 to make us enter the animation

Atlas... the cost of using petrify is too high, the seriously short duration on the rock armour and the lack of auto attachment of the armour really needs 'changing'... you'd have thought DE would have realised no vacuum of the rocks was a bad idea after relic reactant and that 75 base energy cost for a spam it ability is too high considering frames like inaros and it's desiccation are 25

Banshee... RQ rework has done none of what it's supposed to do, it's not a 'place and carry on' like originally described because it's duration is too short, not to mention it's now press 4 repeatedly for the same effect as the old RQ.... great fix to the 'staying in one spot'...

Chroma... it's gone from having a niche as the main damage dealer due to it's buff where it actually had a use to now being weaker than several other options which don't require anywhere near as much investment or effort to get said buffs.  If you need to self damage to get the buffs then chroma should at least have the highest buff strength. 

Ember... all players have done is increased range at the cost of power strength and they're back running lower levels killing everything like before (we told the dev's this would happen).... pretty sure this was supposed to be what the changes fixed... high levels with ember are now basically no go if you used firequake due to the reduction in range, no one ever complained about firequake builds...

Volt... the fall off of both strength AND duration (not to mention the nerf to base duration) has basically made his 4 worse than it was when it had a cap....I thought this was supposed to be an improvement, not a nerf.

Mag... still no reason to play it for me personally, although obviously it's better than before... except for the diminishing buff as you go higher levels due to it being based off percentage of damage done to the enemy...

Zephyr... I suppose it's ok on PoE but not sure why I'd use it over say rhino on the starmap...

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Yep. You really showed us how to put a stop to the problem of Ember effortlessly stomping low level Fissure missions. Yessirree. Mmmm mmmm.

 

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All sarcasm aside, your rework has not 'removed the targeted issue at the cost of nerfing Ember's CC'. It has failed to remove the targeted issue, but still crippled Ember's high level survivability. Please revisit this.

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2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

All sarcasm aside, your rework has not 'removed the targeted issue at the cost of nerfing Ember's CC'. It has failed to remove the targeted issue, but still crippled Ember's high level survivability. Please revisit this.

Y'know "I told ya so" seems oddly relevant here.....

 

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I really hope you get around to taking a look at the rest of the warframes. Off the top of my head Inaros, Ivara, Mirage, and Nezha could use some improvements to round out their kits.

Ivara - Needs some buffs to help her in non stealthy situations. Prowl speed boost (or removal of speed penalty), etc.

Inaros - Could use some things to make him a better team player. Scarab armor could affect your team mates? Maybe his Devour can make quicksand traps that pull in and incapacitate enemies to help with area defense.

Mirage - Needs more control over what buffs she gets (light/darkness) and when. I don't really care how you do it but she should be able to choose and 'lock in' either the light or darkness Eclipse buff and have that one last the duration.

Nezha - Needs QoL for his ult animation. In general I think he needs his support abilities buffed to make him a better choice between other support frames. For example, he brings nothing to Eidolon fights. Maybe his Safeguard augment could be integrated into his Warding Halo ability, and also have it heal a % of the target's max hp per second.

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2 hours ago, CapnToaster said:

Inaros - Could use some things to make him a better team player. Scarab armor could affect your team mates? Maybe his Devour can make quicksand traps that pull in and incapacitate enemies to help with area defense.

No.... please don't touch Inaros, based on what's been done with the current reworks, which were supposed to improve a frame, he'll end up in a worse place than he is now...

 

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