The Temporary Future of Warframe Trials

[ljmadruga]

11 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Devstream #106 this Friday will have a raw view on our decision to temporally remove Trails. 

We (as humans and also players of Warframe) feel bad about having Trials out there unsupported, but we can feel your emotions on the decision to temporarily remove them as well.

I’ll say this much about this decision, as well as my opinion on recent developments.

PoE was a great achievement in warframe’s history, don’t get me wrong. Was it flawed? Yes, certainly. You guys have certainly put forth a valiant effort to perfect it as well.

However, this is a double edged sword. In improving and focusing on the plains, you seem to have forgotten that Warframe doesn’t encompass a 3km area somewhere on earth. It encompasses an entire solar system’s worth of worlds and enemy bases and monsters. Not to mention the void, kuva fortress, and an entire Orokin derelict.

The events on the plains were overall pretty neat. They were a nice deviation from normal warframe missions. However, doing the same bounties over and over again leads to burnout. I personally was hoping you would learn from this.

Then, the unvaulted primes came along. You had good intentions with putting them all on the plains. What may have been slipped under the rug is that the entire community has been running bounties for events for the last few months. This annoyed me to say the least.

Then, this comes along. I personally LOVED doing the trials. I always liked going through the raids with the most ridiculous setups. I even ran several of those runs with 7 complete novices and we made it through, having a ton of fun in the process.

Now that I learned about this, I have no reason to come back to Warframe as a whole. Sure, I’ll test out the reworks for a bit, maybe even kill the new eidolons a couple times, but after that, that’s really it. I’ve been logging on for just the sortie and  raids before logging off recently.

Before finishing, let me list off the consequences of the raids going away that I can list off the top of my head.

- Many major content creators on YouTube and twitch will be affected majorly including but not limited to; Zanagoth, Brozime, Gir8Tacos, and Tiburos.

- A lot of clans will die and disband as a result for having zero point in existing

- Burnout from killing eidolons repeatedly and locking rewards behind challenges many players can’t even run will cause a HUGE portion of the player base to quit

- Plat sales will drop significantly since arcane energize is not nearly as hard to get

- Nobody will actually use their archwing for anything unless they are absolutely forced to.

- Vauban and other purely cc frames will not be played NEARLY as much.

- Ash will become SIGNIFICANTLY harder to get.

I leave you with a lesson my mom taught me when I was little: “There is such a thing as too much of a good thing”.

[danieloremy]

so migration account is not coming back 

[xXHobbitXx]

Never heard of RSB, nor care :) Dont use discord , its a game, dont need to rely on discord or groups to play this game, and yes its still a very small part of the communtiy that does raids, you dont like it, to bad for you :) Its happening, De have said for very long time they planned on removing raids as they are, get used to it, i think you will find as it unfolds alot more people will be doing eidolon raids for arcanes then ever did a buggy raid

You really shouldnt make the assumption people that play warfarme, use discord, use forums, use any other form of internet site other then warframe, cause for a huge majority its all that they use, warfarme

[superdino880]

This is interesting my only problem is the low amount of trust I have in DE to be bring the raids back in a timely fashion is this also the best time to do this with promises of a damage 2.5 a new warframe and in the long run another plains I dont want this to get in the way of the new content but I also dont want those plans to get in the way of raids. 

 

Edit: why cant you just make a remake then release it instead of getting rid of raids all together and if its because of server space thats some horse S#&$, thats like saying theirs a tea cup orbiting the sun as we speak right now you have no proof it doesnt so it must be orbiting.

[uxx0]

I'm just repeating what I said elsewhere. I am the world-record holder for 2 of the raids. So I've done a lot of raids. Obviously this issue goes further than just "We don't want fix trials anymore".

But to keep it short I'm just gonna say: I am disappointed.

[Luli-.]

I have fun making raids with my friends and making records, but I get very bad taste what DE is doing now, too many things have died that gave that touch of flavor to the game. There are people who have dedicated many hours to the game and have invested money DE is taking the game to an end :(

[Voidforged]

I don't understand why you don't commit a team ten times larger than the one that has been working on it, fix every bug in a few months, get it all working as intended, then divert that entire team into something new. 

Raids would still exist, they would actually work, and you would have all of your developers working on the projects you want them to be working on after a few months of solid effort.

Win-Win?

[Xion]

I don't really bother with raids, but I think removing them entirely is such a terrible decision on DE's end. I get that DE can't please everyone, but removing this huge aspect of the game just to push it towards something that they've been overhyping to try and retain more new players means they're willing to break a community centered around the raids. I didn't agree when they screwed over endurance runners with the fissure systems and I don't agree with the way they're screwing over the raiders.

I don't even understand why DE wants new players to have easier access to arcanes...

[NightmareT12]

Well, I wanted to share some thoughts on this. I've never done many Raids (I have a few times) because I found them more annoying than fun, and sometimes those missions bugged like heck.

But I can't support this idea for one, very single reason, and it is mentioned right there in Megan's post: The Dark Sector conflicts.

Dark Sector conflicts were changed a couple of times, but failed to remain fun/engaging to the playerbase. Then they were subsequently cast out because (and I totally think it was the right call) it was an absolute pain that had to be remodeled, but there were no hands for it at the time. However, it's been MANY years since then.

I just can't feel committed to give this move a pass because I do know that, while you're being honest and you guys are working on other things, it's taking SO LONG to add (back) some features, that I just fear it's going to take at least as much for you guys to find the right chance to work on these.

Lately you guys have released the Plains of Eidolon spicing things up, and have been focusing (and again, rightfully so) in the new player experience, yet the focus has been so huge on it, it feels like a couple years ago when we received Lunaro and Spectres of the Rail: the game had a period with lacking content due chewing more than you could at the time and the subequent 4 month delay into reaching the full point of the update. Afterwards everything returned to normal and we recieved many changes that have been for the better, like Fissures (I love those).

I must say this: Please take the chance to look back at how some stuff was handled and ask yourselves: "What is the current direction you're taking with Warframe?" and "Are the scales weighing more on one part than the other?". Because I feel that it's time to start spreading some of these updates a bit more and start working on, first, returning the Dark Sector conflicts so Clans and Alliances have something to do again, which if successful will bring a LOT of life into the game, and then focus on reshaping the Trials into a helthier experience overall and where do Sentients as enemies fit into this possible endgame so we the older players get something more to do.

Then we can refocus again on the Venus plains node and so on.

[spacerocks]

Had a lot of fun with these, but glad the arcanes are being moved to a location all players can obtain them. Sad to see them go, but hopefully theyll come back soon. Looking forward to when these come back. 

[Aggh]

 

2 hours ago, xXHobbitXx said:

Good change, raids are horrible, dont ever bother with them, time consuming with no good rewards, arcanes arent needed for any level gameplay you currently give us :) But the fact your changing it to teralysts actually means some people will get them now since ALOT hate raids fullstop for the reason i already pointed out, and before the kids start crying, i know alot of you run raids for arcances to sell or your under the impression you need them, thats your issue not the players that dislike raids :)

Just like any content we currently have raids arent hard, once the gameplay is sorted out, as in you know how to run them, they arent difficult at all, just set and forget like all other content in game, and alot of players find raids annoying, boring, time consuming, full of bugs and not worth the rewards, most arcanes arent worth anything at all and very lackluster to use considering you need 10 for a full set

This guy gets it.  Most of the people here defending raids are either mad that they won't have their own corner of the plat market anymore, or they are seriously overestimating how many people actually care about trials.  Do people seriously think DE would shut down trials if there was a meaningful number of people playing them?

5 minutes ago, Voidforged said:

I don't understand why you don't commit a team ten times larger than the one that has been working on it, fix every bug in a few months, get it all working as intended, then divert that entire team into something new. 

Raids would still exist, they would actually work, and you would have all of your developers working on the projects you want them to be working on after a few months of solid effort.

Win-Win?

Because content actually needs to at least help pay for itself a little.  If your logic here worked in the real world, the Amazing Eternals would still be in development :/

[--Q--SnakeMan]

Thanks for making this decision that much easier!

[JohnWick]

33 minutes ago, xXHobbitXx said:

Completely agree, just cause some so called vets dont like raids being removed, you cant assume all vets like or want raids to stay, you will find its a very small group of people that do raids daily, but your all very vocal, thats why you assume EVERYONE wants them, they provide nothing to gameplay and what is gained from raids, ie: arcanes, will still be available, so no loss except a buggy lifeless boring raid system

Take a look around yourself. You are the minority here! 

[xXHobbitXx]

1 minute ago, --Q--SnakeMan said:

Thanks for making this decision that much easier!

If losing a buggy raid makes you quit, you would have quit anyway, good bye, game has plenty more to offer, and arcanes still available :)

[(PSN)CollinSask]

Removing Trials because of the lack of player involvement (which is entirely the dev's fault as Trials are not friendly for new runners) is really unfortunate. How are any of us supposed to believe you will ever return to the Trials to work on them when you hardly ever fixed the bugs in them to begin with. There was never a push to try and further integrate the Trials into the game. I bet most players don't even know Trials exist because it was never really told anywhere besides the keys. The only attempt to integrate a JV Trial mechanic into the main game was laughable (Infested Salvage) as it was without a doubt the easiest part of the Trial. I really hope I am wrong and Trials will be looked at within the near future but I really don't see that happening it seems like it will be another forgotten feature thrown into the pile. 

[xXHobbitXx]

3 minutes ago, --Q--Napalm said:

Take a look around yourself. You are the minority here! 

Wrong again, im the majority, thats why DE can safely remove them, they have the statistics to prove its a very small group that play them or they wouldnt be removing them as it is :) Im the minority only in 1 way, im not upset raids are going in THIS post :)

[Voltage]

6 minutes ago, Aggh said:

This guy gets it.  Most of the people here defending raids are either mad that they won't have their own corner of the plat market anymore, or they are seriously overestimating how many people actually care about trials.  Do people seriously think DE would shut down trials if there was a meaningful number of people playing them?

I don't enjoy conclave, and many players don't, but should we outright remove content and give the finger to those who actually enjoy it? Of course not. If you seriously think the only reason people are mad is because of greed with Arcanes, then you seriously need a fact check. Here, I will provide:

Trials have created communities, charity streams, and many more positive results than your negative ideals over the market. Please actually do research instead of indirectly calling everyone greedy because DE is pulling a Specters of the Rail 2.0 with some Veterans.

[Walker]

I'd like to have a honest answer to this, how  do you expect people to do raids while 0 explanation is provided  regarding them and that they are buried within the things in the market. @[DE]Megan

I can give so easy solution to this, simply a new menu to shows that you haven't done ur daily raids yet. I know there are many posts but I would be looking forward to a reply to this one. 

[SwollenGoat]

As an example of how poorly Trials are currently implemented:

I have 300 hours into Warframe. I've never done a trial/raid. I have no idea how or where to access them. I have no idea what an arcane is, what it does or how to acquire one. For me, and I'd assume most new(ish) players, Trials/raids may as well not exist currently. Taking their rewards and putting them into Eidolons is a great idea from my perspective. I actually know how to kill an Eidolon and don't have trouble finding groups to do so.

[Gryphticon]

Just now, --Q--Voltage said:

I don't enjoy conclave, and many players don't, but should we outright remove content and give the finger to those who actually enjoy it? Of course not. If you seriously think the only reason people are mad is because of greed with Arcanes, then you seriously need a fact check. Here, I will provide:

Trials have created communities, charity streams, and much more positive things than your negative ideals over the market. Please actually do research instead of indirectly calling everyone greedy because DE is pulling a Specters of the Rail 2.0 with some Veterans.

Couldn't have said it better myself! I still can't fathom why anyone would vouch for content being REMOVED. I guess this shows how far people would go to support their "favorite devs" even through bad decisions.

[OwlPeeps]

Bleh... More content behind PoE. Good for people who like it, bad for people who don't like it, even moreso for players like myself whose (who's?) PCs are unable to run the Plains, even with the lowest settings. Some people might be able to afford a new PC, some can't, I'll like myself. So, maybe you could optimize Plains to be more potato friendly if you're putting lots of content behind it. Sorry. 

[.Zel]

Everyone salty about Raids getting the Axe but Conclave still living, Realize that DE isn't doing this because the amount of player in Raids is low. DE is doing this cause Raids need a lot of fixing and they break often which sometimes even forces you to restart the whole run. Conclave isn't suffering from such issues. Also being the only other game mode than Conclave where 8 people are in the same lobby, it's way harder to fix being PvE content.(PvP gears have huge limitations compared to PvE gears, so a lot more variables to consider when it comes to fixing PvE content).

DE apparently feels Raids need a redesign from all the feedback they get from you, therefore they're doing it. Surely this isn't what you wanted but your voices have been heard.  

[TheGuyver]

3 minutes ago, xXHobbitXx said:

Wrong again, im the majority, thats why DE can safely remove them, they have the statistics to prove its a very small group that play them or they wouldnt be removing them as it is :) Im the minority only in 1 way, im not upset raids are going in THIS post :)

>Arguing over who speaks for what group when in reality no "one player" speaks for either.

On topic: If they're removed now then they aren't coming back, all it means is less to do and more hopes to be shattered like the return of the rail conflicts.

[BjornTheBard]

Just now, xXHobbitXx said:

Wrong again, im the majority, thats why DE can safely remove them, they have the statistics to prove its a very small group that play them or they wouldnt be removing them as it is :) Im the minority only in 1 way, im not upset raids are going in THIS post :)

bcuz people like u warframe is like what it is today and u are just ruining it for us veterans :/

[_Mozzy_]

Vet and clan Warlord of 3+ years here. Raids have helped grow and maintain my community in a way no other in game content has. Eidolon hunts don't compare in my opinion (less complex, less players involved, easier to just do on public) I'm worried this will be a big blow to various communities in Warframe and don't hold out much hope of seeing Raids return if they do get removed (rip Dark Sectors). They will certainly be missed.