[DE]Megan

The Temporary Future of Warframe Trials

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1 hour ago, Spectre-8 said:

My first reaction was "you're being overdramatic here"  , though I find this type of logic on point . Well done.

Anytime someone busts out an adaptation of "first they came for the...", they're being unquestionably overdramatic, unless they're actually talking about actual lives being at stake.

Edited by Ham_Grenabe
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1 minute ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Anytime someone busts out an adaptation of "first they came for the...", they're being unquestionably overdramatic, unless they're actually talking about people's lives being at stake.

LOL  , that's one way to say that i'm a total hypocrite :D

Edited by Spectre-8
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I'm going to keep remaking this as there's nothing in the rules on criticism, not being hostile, just pointing out what was said.

Still not a single message on the subject.

 

This post is on-subject, not spam, and not aggressive/hostile towards any individual, merely what's been stated, what's been done, and the actions taken within this topic.

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Going to put the past posts into the below spoiler to save page space.

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Getting to some "inception levels" of replies with how many quotes this is becoming, lol.

If there is something actually "wrong" with the posts, then send me a MESSAGE instead.

 

Just because I'm saying how the title is incorrect DOES NOT mean that it is breaking any rules, unless criticism is now a rule-breaker.

Removing content that many people enjoyed for little to no reason and then doing this underhanded tactic is just so backwards.

 

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That was quick, once again deleted, so let's try that again, and maybe this time I'll get a private message on their reasoning.

 

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Glad I screencapped my recent post, going to remake it verbatim and include a screencap of the original.

Really.... wouldn't be bad if someone just MESSAGED me when deleting the comment.

 

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Considering my previous post was removed and no one is telling me "why", I am going to recreate said previous post... though by memory.

(Really sneaky to the one behind it.... have a feeling I know who....I really hate feeling like I need to screencap my posts)


This topic should be renamed as it is not a "temporary" change, at least with "trials" being akin to "raids".

DE already confirmed as much in the recent livestream that "raids" would not be returning, and "trials" will, and more than likely it'll just be the moniker of "trials" slapped onto something completely different.

 

 


 

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So yeah, as the title suggests, I wanted to give my opinions about DE's decision in removing the Trials from the game for a limited time by the end of the month, or Raids or whatever people call them, and I have to say, to me it doesn't quite matter at all, in fact it's actually fine by me.

The reason I say this, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks the same, is because of the fact that the Trials just ended up becoming somewhat obscured with other things like Sorties and even Eidolon Hunting but that's not the only thing. When the first Trial, the LoR, was introduced in a Devstream I was interested in it especially because of the fact that it involved the ability to play with up to 8 players while fighting against incredibly hard enemies, it somewhat made me remembering a similar case with Super Smash Bros. for the Wii U and Nintendo 3DS where you could also do an 8 player smash, even though I don't have that game, but even then it was something that made me curious as I wanted to see what it was like to play with 8 players and doing some puzzles.

When finally the LoR was implemented to the game I decided to give it a try and I have to say, instead of calling it Law of Retribution might as well calling it Law of Rage. I mean, I usually don't like fighting with enemies that are over level 100 since that they can easily kill a squishy warframe and still kill tankier warframes unless if using something to stay immune to damage like Rhino's Iron Skin or Nezha's Warding Hallo and so on. I mean, sure I could have had many frames before but the Trials themselves still felt somewhat out of place.

First things first, the Trials involve 2 to 3 parts where players must coordinate with each other in order to finish them by completing some puzzles, at least as far as I know. And yeah, I get that DE wanted to try to implement a system of puzzles to encourage player to interact with each other in order to solve it if they want to finish the mission and I totally get that. Don't get me wrong, I like when some games have like areas that are actually huge puzzles for players to solve, in fact I used to play some games that had that kind of system from Prince of Persia the Warrior Within to Tomb Raider Underworld and some others of which I don't recall their names. But what was sure was that those puzzles were fun to do, some of them could have been an pain in the butt to solve but they were still fun to do mainly because of the fact of the players having all the time of the world to solve it. I suppose that DE wanted to try something similar with Warframe but it didn't work quite well when the Trials went live.

In fact, this can actually be compared to real life situations. Let's suppose that you have a group of players in a room who are good with puzzles and you challenge them in solving a complicated puzzle, you'll notice that they start interacting with each other, trying many things to see what works and what doesn't but slowly are capable to solving the puzzle with enough effort to do it. But if you have a group of players who are terrible with puzzles things become complicated, seriously, I have some colleagues who aren't necessarily great with puzzles, so they have more difficulties in solving it since that puzzles often force players to think. But if you just mix things up by placing both groups in the same room solving one single puzzle things can get messy, those who aren't good with puzzles might as well just stay there doing nothing because they simply can't understand what's going on. I say this because this is probably what happened most of the times with the Trials in the game when they went live, sure no one knew how the puzzles worked at that time but there're still some new players around who probably are still trying to figure out how to solve the puzzles in the Trials.

Now actually none of this isn't a huge deal unless you consider the fact that the puzzle sections just seem to slowdown the entire progress, but none of this is the reason as to why I didn't like the Trials in the firts place, solving the puzzles isn't a huge deal and you can take care of the enemies by using crowd control abilities on them, but considering the fact that you had to solve the puzzle with those pesky enemies constantly trying to kill you just turned things into a true nightmare. Seriously, that's equivalent to someone solving a puzzle with the room filled with people talking all the time, you hardly can concentrate. I mean, this is basically one of those cases where the implementation of a puzzle system in a game may work for some but for others... not so much. For me, puzzles should take their time to be solved and not rushed, people should have their time to understand how a puzzle works if they want to succed. But considering that in the Trials you have to deal both with puzzles and high level enemies that are constatly trying to interrupt you just makes thing incredibly obnoxious and that's not even counting the freaking scorpions who just keep pulling you away from where you're suppose to say in the puzzle, forcing players to start all over again. I mean SERIOUSLY! I never got throught the first part of the second stage of the LoR Trial when I tried in the first times, not to mention the amount of times players had to use their revives in order to keep up often resulting in players running out of them and leaving the mission in the middle.

All of this just made me not want to do Trials ever again, not even The Jordas Verdict especially considering that people often say that this one is very buggy. I still saw some videos on youtube to see how the whole thing worked, like some made by Mogamu, but it still didn't convinced me to do it again. It just gets to a point where you hardly can do anything even with communication because the enemies are just making things difficult when trying to solve puzzles. I get that some of you had already figured it out but the Trials in general just got to a point where I couldn't even look at them and knowing that DE is also moving the Arcanes to the Eidolons in the plains that just made me pleased, after all you don't have puzzles to solve and you have to deal with those little guys who regenerate the Teralyst's shield. Also, I get that the Trials also allow up to three player to play which makes sense, some sections require someone to say on a plataform to open a door so that everyone can get through, but another thing that I didn't quite like was that you had to invite people since that Trials weren't exactly public and were meant to be played as a team and I get that but it was still a little annoying for me.

Like I said, there're times where the implementation of a puzzle in a game works while in others it doesn't. I still understand that some of you may not like the idea that the Trials are temporarily being removed from the game but this actually happened once with the DarkSectors and considering that DE is about to introduce a new mechanic for them it makes me excited, I mean just by looking at the way you enter in the new DarkSectors in the Devstream makes me think that that's how the DarkSector should have been in the first place. After all, they are called "Dark" for a reason. We of course don't know for how long the Trials will be shut down but this should actually be the ticket that DE needs to make Trials better, because we have to agree that puzzles are something that need their time to be solved and never being rushed, unless if you're really good at them.

Not only that, let's face it, some of the newer things that were introduced into the game, like Sorties and Eidolon Hunting, can get the job done better than Trials themselves about dealing with different kinds of challenges and you don't even need 8 players to do it, in fact people even say that the Eidolon Hunting are the new Trials.

Anyway, let me know your thoughts about this down below. What I think is that I Trials chould use some kind of rework to make them feel much better and not slowed down due to a puzzle or even bugs or something. Remember that DE recognises their mistakes and just want to do whatever it takes to make things better for the players via the use of their feedback. I don't know what they're specifically planning but we just need to give them some time to decide what they want to do with the Trials. Who knows? They surprised us with the new system for the DarkSectors in a Devstream so it's totally possible they might do the same for the Trials, along with some usual hotfixes, you know?

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This. I'm a so-called 'Veteran Player' (here since U7) who's at the end-game point.

I've tried running a Trial once. Once.

Even with players who had a good idea of what we were doing we didn't get past the platform/message puzzle, in I think the first part of the second mission. At that point we didn't even fight the enemies, they could take whatever damage we could deal and one-shot us, so it was a matter of endless crowd-control. Experience was bad enough that I never tried to do so again.

Combine with the fact that the number of players who actually do these raids is relatively small, plenty of work went into these raids and hardly anybody plays them. They aren't worth DE's effort to maintain so it's a miracle that they did for so long.

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Wow, how many times they will delete your posts? And not a single comment why. This is beyond ridiculous.

Reminds me time when people were overwhelmingly negative about the new Deluxe skins (Ember and Volt). Posts also quickly disappeared.

Apparently those were not "constructive" enough.

The purge was real.

Edited by Buldozers
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2 minutes ago, Buldozers said:

Wow, how many times they will delete your posts?

No idea, pretty crazy considering there's nothing inherently wrong with my posts.

I've noticed them deleting quite a few posts lately, we've been on page 67 for the whole day when there's been numerous other posts since it first hit this page.

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The whole reason behind Raids removal is that they are no longer able to fix the plethora of bugs that come up with each patch. At this point, it would be easier to build things up from scratch rather than fixing numerous bugs with every subsequent patch. If they just left Raids in the game without touching it whilst they worked on a replacement it would decay in to an absolute mess within a handful of updates. It makes more sense to just remove it at that point since completing it would probably be extremely frustrating if not impossible. At least, that is what I gathered.

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10 minutes ago, Brinie said:

The whole reason behind Raids removal is that they are no longer able to fix the plethora of bugs that come up with each patch. At this point, it would be easier to build things up from scratch rather than fixing numerous bugs with every subsequent patch. If they just left Raids in the game without touching it whilst they worked on a replacement it would decay in to an absolute mess within a handful of updates. It makes more sense to just remove it at that point since completing it would probably be extremely frustrating if not impossible. At least, that is what I gathered.

 

That... doesn't make sense.

It would be understandable for them to remove JV and leave LoR due to the plethora of bugs that come with JV and Steve saying "fixing the millionth JV bug".

 

They could work on something behind-the-scenes, then when it is ready to just take out out the current trials and then replace them with the new. There's no reason that they would have to remove code in order to work on it.

Edited by Sean
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Just now, Sean said:

 

That... doesn't make sense.

It would be understandable for them to remove JV and leave LoR due to the plethora of bugs that come with JV and Steve saying "fixing the millionth JV bug".

 

They could work on something behind-the-scenes, then when it is ready to just take out out the current trials and replacing them with the new. There's no reason that they would have to remove code in order to work on it.

They would remove Raids so they no longer have to waste time excessively patching code that is busted beyond repair. 

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1 minute ago, Brinie said:

They would remove Raids so they no longer have to waste time excessively patching code that is busted beyond repair. 

That's why I said they could remove JV, the worst offender with that after all, but LoR has been pretty stable for a while now, they've only really needed to patch JV lately.

Edited by Sean

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On 2/10/2018 at 12:20 PM, Eldritchsqueaker said:

I get tired of the all vets are this and if you have this many hours in the game you must agree rhetoric. Trials are not raids, nor are they good content. They are a mess that requires too much upkeep and created an elitist community controlling the arcane economy. DE is right on thinking they should go. 

Edit: I have well over 2k hours by the by

This

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On 2/10/2018 at 3:33 PM, _Nobody_ said:

I'm MR 24 and been playing for almost 3 years. I've seen this game go through crazy transitions. I think however, this is the first tme that I am most fond of supporting this game. I have been wanting these reworks/QOL/upgrades/improvements/polish, whatever you want to call it, take the front seat before new content for a long time. The fact that Kora has been put on the back burner in order to support the polish to the rest of the game is amazing to see. Developers who care more about their game mechanics rather than a new shiny toy for grofit, is respectable.

I know there is a lot of hate towards the fact that Trials/Raids are over but come on people, what was the reward for doing them? I am happy to see them go. Useless data in a game that constantly evolves. 

DE, stay this course. I don't care about "nerfs/buffs", if it mean balance and polish I accept it. You are not a money hungry company. You actually care about your game and fan base.

 

This deserves WAY more upvotes!  I hope DE reads this and knows we DO support them!

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On 2/10/2018 at 3:38 PM, --Q--Captain said:

You got credits, arcanes, detonite injectors, fieldron, and you got to have fun.

Cool. You can STILL get Credits, Arcanes, Detonite Injectors, Fieldron, AND plenty of fun to be had.  Soo....

 

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On 2/10/2018 at 4:02 PM, --Q--Captain said:

May not be good to use, but an easy sell for sure.

And you all complain about DE wanting to grofit :P

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Cool. You can STILL get Credits, Arcanes, Detonite Injectors, Fieldron, AND plenty of fun to be had.  Soo....

 

You can't have fun with eight people in the squad anywhere else.

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On 2/10/2018 at 5:04 PM, Xzorn said:

I don't normally except my Boss to thank me for coming to work on time.

The state of weapon balance and many QoL features are long overdue.

Thanking someone after long term neglect is kinda Stockholm.

They did some good things of course but as a 5 year devoted player with 4,000 in-mission hours; I've never been this uninterested in playing Warframe since Solar Rails was first released. DE took vaulted relics out of my Endurance runs. They removed Raids, My Focus trees are 100% with 9 million points left over and farming Kuva is possibly the worst thing in the game. They've pretty much backed veterans into an empty corner.

What are you on about, for Lotus' sake?  

Vaulted Relics are easier than ever to get. I got 6 in less than an hour, for crying out loud.  Raids are barely what that namesake implies, and are played the same way, with no change. As for Focus...Y'all brought that on yourselves.... DE changed Focus to make it more Operator-inclusive, and harder to farm so it wasn't done in a day...and everyone whined about it being "too hard" so DE "fixed" it, and now you're complaining you have too much?

Just because you're a tryhard bent on breaking the game doesn't mean DE is failing you.  Perhaps, when they say it's "not inline with their vision of Warframe", which, by the way, is THEIR creation, not ours, and you disagree with it...it might just mean you don't really like Warframe.  That's fine, but don't blame an artist for not painting a painting the way YOU think it should be.  They are the artist, and this is their art.  To bend that to OUR whim would be to take away from what made it great to begin with.

To think we know what the art represents better than the one who created it is arrogant at best.

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On 2/10/2018 at 5:22 PM, Arkhenbarn said:

I have a pretty mixed stance on that retirement. While some of your statement make sense, some might just as well be used for Conclave. To believe what part of the community is actually playing, we need figures and statistics ; this is just how it works : we won't take your word for it. The work on the Conclave is not worth the effort neither, if this is your argument to retire the Trials.

However, I can't help but laugh at the argument "Trials were the only endgame" I've read more than once in the comments. I mean, the only thing that prevented me from running a macro to do the raid is the behavior of the AI. When you know how it works, you barely think about what you do and there is no difficulty whatsoever. Try a Grineer Sortie with Elemental Enhancement, this is more challenge than a Raid. And I'm not taking into account the buggyness of the Trials and the fact the "how to" is nothing close to being intuitive, while being repetitive like anything else at the same time.

As far as I'm concerned, whether the Trials stay or go, I don't care. They were utterly boring to me, I would not miss them. My only concern is the focus of DE on the Plains that becomes worrying (putting Arcanes on the Eidolons). You want to promote the Plains ? No problem. But don't forget you have a whole Star Chart ont the side while you are squishing as much content as possible on basically one node, which doesn't make sense in terms of balancing the content.

 

While I do agree regarding your statement on the stale gameplay (i use that term loosely) of the Trials, I have to respectfully state that I do not share your, or others' similar, concerns regarding DE's focus on the star chart.

PoE is just a small, tiny sampling of the next phase of Warframe.  They've already stated there will be more Open Worlds on nodes, and they will be BIGGER than PoE.  Honestly, I believe the only reason they even had the Plague Star event was to test the use of the Infested faction in an open world environment, though thankfully they added some story to give it a player-side purpose :)

What they are doing right now IS focused, yes, but it's only because this is phase 2.  Not the FINAL phase of Warframe, as there is no such thing.  It is not ALL they're going to be doing ever again, it's just their current priority.

They didn't survive 5 years and make it to Award Nominees by being a bad, stupid developer....they know what they're doing.

They don't -owe- us answers or stats or any of that.

And has been mentioned before, Conclave is not tied to updates the same way Trials were, as one is PvP, with it's own set of rules and mods, and the other is PvE, and as such, is affected by bugs and whatnot with every update, and is just not something they, a FREE-TO-PLAY GAME COMPANY, can afford to pour resources into when they know they have something much bigger to offer.

 

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

What are you on about, for Lotus' sake?  

Vaulted Relics are easier than ever to get. I got 6 in less than an hour, for crying out loud.  Raids are barely what that namesake implies, and are played the same way, with no change. As for Focus...Y'all brought that on yourselves.... DE changed Focus to make it more Operator-inclusive, and harder to farm so it wasn't done in a day...and everyone whined about it being "too hard" so DE "fixed" it, and now you're complaining you have too much?

Just because you're a tryhard bent on breaking the game doesn't mean DE is failing you.  Perhaps, when they say it's "not inline with their vision of Warframe", which, by the way, is THEIR creation, not ours, and you disagree with it...it might just mean you don't really like Warframe.  That's fine, but don't blame an artist for not painting a painting the way YOU think it should be. 

 

First off I don't care how easy something is to get. In fact the longer something takes the more play time I get. My issue is how those vaulted Relics are attained. I don't want to play PoE. I'm done with it. I finished everything and nothing in PoE interests me. I find it repulsive that DE continues to try and carrot-on-a-stick players into mediocre game play that got old in a week.

Second. I never complained about Focus costs. Not once. Do not include me in a group of self-entitled casuals who want everything for free. By the way, calling me a tryhard then claiming I'm part of said group who'd complain about a long term grind is pretty short sighted.

If an Artist tells me their going to paint something to the likes of XYZ then I watch it progress to X-- then XY- and suddenly it comes out TQW then you're damn right I can be upset at that artist and I can also not pay them. The fact you even think this is about creativity amuses me. This is about money. It's a Business first. This is about opening the game to the widest audience of brain dead candy-crush whales they can for profit while minimizing the influence Veterans can undermine those profits.

You said it yourself " Vaulted Relics are easier than ever to get " You think I as a 5 year player care about easy? I want engagement and fun.

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On 2/10/2018 at 5:35 PM, WolfTitan said:

What in the world is wrong with DE? I've got friends leaving left and right because of this poorly thought out decision, one in which DE never requested prior feedback from the community. 

Forcing players to play PoE which requires 1000-2000m travel distances between objectives is insane. Hiding arcanes behind Eidolons (which have the same mechanics between each) and walls of grind is absolutely not what players want. Ripping the only thing that is even close to "end-game" that will only fuel salt and hate towards DE is nonsensical. How are raids "end-game?" Raids do not have a well-defined limit to how fast players can successfully complete them. Many veterans strive to become more efficient and faster and faster - this, to them, is what Warframe is all about: fast-paced exhilarating thrill. It's about striving to beat your best time (yes, these times are automatically recorded by the game and archived).

For players who have had a hard time getting into raids, the fault should fall squarely on DE because if their ignorance in the department. They've made no attempt to advertise raids or made them more accessible. Why is there matchmaking for Eidolon but not for raids? WFRSB, clans, alliances, Discord groups, and other communities have spent years' worth of sweat and tears to build up loving communities and to help players get involved. And now DE wants to destroy everything without giving it a second thought (yes, I saw Scott in Devstream #106 twitch and mumble-jumble endlessly in his seat as he struggled to defend this decision). 

Thanks for throwing the despicable middle finger to your active, loyal player base. It's disgusting and shameful.

Use an Archwing.  Easy and fast. They're trying to show the world of Warframe is bigger than a friggin hallway.  Also, that this world is not DESIGNED FOR the Tenno, but they just live in it. Jeez..

LoR is the same boss everytime with the same mechanics also...I fail to see the difference.

You do not speak for all players.

They are working on making a game mode that IS all about that "fast-paced exhilarating thrill. Honestly, I've never found LoR to be that at all, though.  Standing on switches, waiting for others to run bombs...just a snore-fest. And it's always the same thing each run.  And yes, the -Game Designers- KNOW the times that the game they designed records...as they designed it.

Scott was uncomfortable in devstream BECAUSE he knew how big an announcement this was and the kind of backlash they'd get.  He even said as much.  They wouldn't do this half-heartedly.  You don't work there, and you have no IDEA how many conversations they may have had about this decision before it was made.  Do not assume that just because you weren't a part of it it didn't happen.  That's arrogant.

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Let's Keep The RAIDS! Warframe Community step-UP!! 

Hello everyone! i saw on devstream that DE was thinking to remove the Raids and this upset all my Clan/ Alliance and warframe members , i absolutely think that DE is doing a big mistake! RAIDs  kept high end player busy on helping newbies  (Like the Dark Sectors) playing as a teamwork and help growing  the warframe community, i think the reason is not because no one is playing raids ( big lie that was made-up please look at links  https://wf.christx.tw/  https://wf.christx.tw/JordasRecords.php?type=all) because DE is diverging all player on playing EDILON !

Like i say before when DE Developers created the Raids kept all players busy and still today me and members  love raiding i wish they would come-up with new maps like the Corpus Raid and other maps, i understand that they are running  out of ideas for price loot ( DE please ask for any ideas/suggestion on forum ) like with new Arcanes but i think that other alternatives   can be like adding  Riven Mods Weapons and more stuff, they can also create Cetus/Edilon Raids (but please 8+ players so it looks more like a real open world) make the game more challenging , create clan raids , Alliance Raids yes why not on Cetus/Edilon ,Developers use more imagination keep your clients busy make them happy.

Please leave a positive feed back lets fight for our Raids!

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2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Cash201293 said:

I guess it’s gonna take even more time to even see a glimps of a Corpus raid. 

I would love to see a Corpus RAID ... everyone would equip there EMP auras lol ;)

Edited by emblema
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They're not leaving permanently . They're getting pulled so they can rebuild Trials from the ground up so there doesn't have to be bug fixes and a brand new soft lock every patch.

 

Trials getting pulled is a good thing, sucks for people who do them a lot, but it'll be better when they return.

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I'd prefer a raid rework. LOR is not challenging, whatsoever which made it boring imo. Jordas verdict was just a clusterfucks so DE should rework it. If the raids i wouldn't care since the only pint of playing them is for the loot.

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