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The Temporary Future of Warframe Trials


[DE]Megan

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Good riddance.  They desperately need a rework and the arcanes are the last class of trading item that has massive price inflation.  Sorry if your clan will have to find another way to make plat.  Why not keep them around until the rework?  Probably because they are buggy as Hek and they are wasting precious resources debugging them every update.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

As for the things you claim DE is lacking in.  You know these "fixes" do not just -happen- overnight, right?  Those few years you claim it took Dark Sectors to get a mention...it wasn't just sitting on a desk until last thursday...it's BEEN getting worked on.  It's only recently that YOU learned of an update on it.  Not that it happened.

Actively worked on for a longer dev cycle than a full fledged game gets on its own? Hmmm... seems legit.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

DE doesn't charge us, they don't OWE us.   They create this game FOR FREE and they CHOOSE to SHARE this amazing experience with us.  Why are you all crucifying them for wanting to rework and give you MORE?  Hell, if that's what it means to be a fan, I hope I never have any.  Don't need that negativity

They're not reworking anything, they're not bringing anything back. The mention of the Dark Sector was to subvert that they were dumb enough to make the parallel in a post earlier. The Vets who gave them the money to breathe life back into a quickly dying game 3-4 years ago at least deserve some kind of respect from the Developer who claims to always listen to community feedback, and makes promises to those vets. Of course they're not doing either of those things, quite the opposite, but you know... that's obviously irrelevant.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

As for the things you claim DE is lacking in.  You know these "fixes" do not just -happen- overnight, right?  Those few years you claim it took Dark Sectors to get a mention...it wasn't just sitting on a desk until last thursday...it's BEEN getting worked on.  It's only recently that YOU learned of an update on it.  Not that it happened.

Don't you think that they also can do nothing all this time, then do a fast concept in, let's say, a week, and then say "Wow guys we worked on a dark sectors rework for years now and here's a result!"? No one is protected from lying in this world.
And yes, me and vets are giving them money, so we can ask for some quality in product.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Alright, not that I owe you any explanation for why i do what i do, buuuuut since you asked...

I am simply quoting and replying to posts AS i read them and replies come to me.  That's all.  I'm not trolling. I don't have the time or interest in such childish things.  

As for the things you claim DE is lacking in.  You know these "fixes" do not just -happen- overnight, right?  Those few years you claim it took Dark Sectors to get a mention...it wasn't just sitting on a desk until last thursday...it's BEEN getting worked on.  It's only recently that YOU learned of an update on it.  Not that it happened.

DE doesn't charge us, they don't OWE us.   They create this game FOR FREE and they CHOOSE to SHARE this amazing experience with us.  Why are you all crucifying them for wanting to rework and give you MORE?  Hell, if that's what it means to be a fan, I hope I never have any.  Don't need that negativity

 

None of what I said was even initially mentions/implemented within the last year, we are talking about YEARS (plural).

 

The new Dark Sectors is basically a glorified survival run, nothing even remotely hitting the complexity that the previous Trials could have had (namely JV, but that was also part of why it was the buggiest). The game mode may very well be entertaining, but it is not the same in the slightest as Trials.

 

The game can be played purely for free, that is one of the key pillars of the game, BUT that does NOT excuse them from criticism. Falling along blindly is NOT a good idea in any form.

They are removing content for little to no reason. That isn't ADDING, that is TAKING AWAY, and it also happens to be something that has its own unique gameplay that entire communities are even built around. I've said it before that it would be understandable to remove JV and leave in LoR as the former can be a buggy mess. Then when an actual upgraded version of Raids (and not something with the "Trials" moniker slapped on it), then replace LoR fully with something new and more in-line with the rest of the game.

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6 minutes ago, Omega1084 said:

Actively ignoring community feedback on what could be done to fix the Raids, improve Focus and make it good instead of the grind it still is, setting up a poll for an Augment mod for Ivara and then ignoring the result, outright lying and deleting a vital piece of gameplay that they promised they wouldn't and pushing away the Vets that play it to pander to the new players who can't even fight Eidolons, the fact that "temporary" has been 3 years+ with the Rails only now getting barely a mention, threatening to sue a 17 year old for a misunderstanding and then not acknowledging that it happened at all, deleting posts they don't like in the forums simply because they can, oh and Archwing I guess which is still awful... among other things.

The disconnect between what these "professionals" say they do, I.E. listen to feedback and always count on the community, and what they actually do is pretty big if you actually pay attention. They're actively acting unprofessional and lying. Betraying the trust and love their vets, many of which are founders who gave the game the life and money it would've never gotten in the state it was back in the day, and pushing them away with all this new pandering.

The customer is NOT always right.  If I were a chef, and some lady walked up to me who wanted to order a steak, and had NEVER cooked a day in her life...and she tries to tell me "No, I LIKE it when it's not cooked at ALL and left on the counter for 4 hrs first!  Tastes great!"    Should I give it to her, just because she's the customer and pays me?  Let me mention, that's a rhetorical question, and of course the answer is no.
DE is not lying, they just aren't telling you all the details you don't need to know yet (or ever) and that makes you sour because for some reason, somewhere along the line, you got the misunderstanding that you somehow OWN Warframe.  How can you own what you never bought the rights to?

You are licensed to play it, to use the software that they provide, and that is all.  They said IN THE DEVSTREAM "We DO hear AND appreciate all of your feedback..even if we don't always agree with it."   

DE are game developers, artists, and Fellow Tenno, as well!  They are not dancing monkeys.  And you shouldn't want them to be!  Give them the trust and the freedom to do what needs to be done.

One last thing, on your point of them "catering to the newbies who can't even beat an eidolon" (I'm paraphrasing, but barely) DE isn't favoring the :"strong", they're not in this business to find "the one true Tenno who will defeat the endboss and save the digital world" or some crap...

They are here to provide an interesting, unique, and interactive gameplay experience for ALL levels of players, NOT just the veterans, and not just newbies, but EVERYONE.  Sometimes that means changes the other may not like, but that's life, kiddo.

Imagine if you wanted to check out a bar you heard had amazing wings, and when you went there, you got yelled at by all these 65+ senior citizens.  "THIS IS OUR BAR! We've been drinking here FOREVER!"  and they got mad because the manager said they should allow new blood in, because let's face it, those seniors arent gonna be around forever, and the bar NEEDS new blood to continue on...

You'd think it absurd and probably just leave.  Why is it any MORE kosher to be treating new Tenno with the same demeanor as the elders did in the above example?  New players will help keep the game alive well into the future.  Stop SAYING you LOVE Warframe, but then actively HINDERING its growth.

It's like a parent that never lets their kid dress themselves or move out...even when they're like 29.   Let 'em go, let 'em be who they're meant to be, even if that means they change from how you used to see them.  

DE is an outstanding company, and they're not perfect, but they're certainly going places and doing a great job with Warframe.  It's sad if you don't want to be a part of that anymore, but don't hate on them for being them.

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38 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

...And yet they've never charged you a dime to play any of it. Ever.   

Also, you complained about your 9 million focus you have nothing to spend on.  That is what I was referring to.

 

I've paid money to support this game. Maybe you haven't but this game wouldn't exist without players paying for it.

In fact the devoted Veterans which have been neglected from majority of recent content are the reason this game got off the ground in the first place.

That claim is on record.

My complaint about having 9 million Focus left over is exactly the opposite of your accusation. I'm complaining the game is being devoid of effort to appeal to casual players in exchange for a larger community and larger income. Whether we like it or not. Veterans from 2013-14 are a minority in this game and from experience simply not a priority cuz if we've been dumb enough to stay this long we'll prolly stay regardless how neglected our interests are.

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9 minutes ago, Omega1084 said:

Actively worked on for a longer dev cycle than a full fledged game gets on its own? Hmmm... seems legit.

They're not reworking anything, they're not bringing anything back. The mention of the Dark Sector was to subvert that they were dumb enough to make the parallel in a post earlier. The Vets who gave them the money to breathe life back into a quickly dying game 3-4 years ago at least deserve some kind of respect from the Developer who claims to always listen to community feedback, and makes promises to those vets. Of course they're not doing either of those things, quite the opposite, but you know... that's obviously irrelevant.

Digital Extremes is a VERY small company, you know.  ESPECIALLY compared to the much larger game developers that make those "full fledged games".  And they do not charge a dime. sooooo yeah, it is legit. 

Let's see how big a business YOU build in five years when based entirely on donations?

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8 minutes ago, Maverick96t said:

Don't you think that they also can do nothing all this time, then do a fast concept in, let's say, a week, and then say "Wow guys we worked on a dark sectors rework for years now and here's a result!"? No one is protected from lying in this world.
And yes, me and vets are giving them money, so we can ask for some quality in product.

That's an accusation based in your own opinion and not facts of any kind.  

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9 minutes ago, Sean said:

 

None of what I said was even initially mentions/implemented within the last year, we are talking about YEARS (plural).

 

The new Dark Sectors is basically a glorified survival run, nothing even remotely hitting the complexity that the previous Trials could have had (namely JV, but that was also part of why it was the buggiest). The game mode may very well be entertaining, but it is not the same in the slightest as Trials.

 

The game can be played purely for free, that is one of the key pillars of the game, BUT that does NOT excuse them from criticism. Falling along blindly is NOT a good idea in any form.

They are removing content for little to no reason. That isn't ADDING, that is TAKING AWAY, and it also happens to be something that has its own unique gameplay that entire communities are even built around. I've said it before that it would be understandable to remove JV and leave in LoR as the former can be a buggy mess. Then when an actual upgraded version of Raids (and not something with the "Trials" moniker slapped on it), then replace LoR fully with something new and more in-line with the rest of the game.

They gave you a GLIMPSE of a Work-in-progress, and suddenly all of you KNOW what it is in it's completed form?  Come on, dude...that's not even a fair judgement.  It's a DEVELOPMENT STREAM, not a FINAL VERSION stream.

They are taking out a cancer.  You may not see anything wrong with Raids on the surface, but clearly DE, who has a VAST amount more insight into it than we do, DOES see issue and is working to resolve it as best they can currently.

I mean, I guess they could have just let the game decay into chaos and not done anything with it....because that's basically what it sounds like you wanted.

Go find another game if you're not happy with this.  Warframe will live.  I'd rather they lose some "vets" than force themselves to change in ways they do not feel are good for the game.

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

The customer is NOT always right.  If I were a chef, and some lady walked up to me who wanted to order a steak, and had NEVER cooked a day in her life...and she tries to tell me "No, I LIKE it when it's not cooked at ALL and left on the counter for 4 hrs first!  Tastes great!"    Should I give it to her, just because she's the customer and pays me?  Let me mention, that's a rhetorical question, and of course the answer is no.
DE is not lying, they just aren't telling you all the details you don't need to know yet (or ever) and that makes you sour because for some reason, somewhere along the line, you got the misunderstanding that you somehow OWN Warframe.  How can you own what you never bought the rights to?

You are licensed to play it, to use the software that they provide, and that is all.  They said IN THE DEVSTREAM "We DO hear AND appreciate all of your feedback..even if we don't always agree with it."   

DE are game developers, artists, and Fellow Tenno, as well!  They are not dancing monkeys.  And you shouldn't want them to be!  Give them the trust and the freedom to do what needs to be done.

These.. scenarios you're making are totally unfitting and yes, they literally actively lied and ignore feedback. They set up a poll and ignored it, they said they wouldn't touch Raids and they are going to, they're liars. You're glossing over everything and making hypotheticals to hide in. Using your scenario the shop would say "well this isn't our best dish but since you helped us build this restaurant we'll keep it, you have our word" then the next day they destroy the dish and tell you a worse dish is what you want. Despite making a promise. That's lying.

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

One last thing, on your point of them "catering to the newbies who can't even beat an eidolon" (I'm paraphrasing, but barely) DE isn't favoring the :"strong", they're not in this business to find "the one true Tenno who will defeat the endboss and save the digital world" or some crap...

They are here to provide an interesting, unique, and interactive gameplay experience for ALL levels of players, NOT just the veterans, and not just newbies, but EVERYONE.  Sometimes that means changes the other may not like, but that's life, kiddo.

No... you literally can't fight them if you haven't gotten far enough. They're in the Plains and require War Within which is 6 planets away and a ton of game hours. You literally, literally cannot fight an Eidolon unless you're already really far into the game. I didn't say "beat" I said FIGHT. They can't hurt the Eidolon at all.

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Imagine if you wanted to check out a bar you heard had amazing wings, and when you went there, you got yelled at by all these 65+ senior citizens.  "THIS IS OUR BAR! We've been drinking here FOREVER!"  and they got mad because the manager said they should allow new blood in, because let's face it, those seniors arent gonna be around forever, and the bar NEEDS new blood to continue on...

You'd think it absurd and probably just leave.  Why is it any MORE kosher to be treating new Tenno with the same demeanor as the elders did in the above example?  New players will help keep the game alive well into the future.  Stop SAYING you LOVE Warframe, but then actively HINDERING its growth.

I love Warframe. That's why I want it to improve, not take away content. Your hypothetical storytime arguments aren't good, they're totally unfitting btw.

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

It's like a parent that never lets their kid dress themselves or move out...even when they're like 29.   Let 'em go, let 'em be who they're meant to be, even if that means they change from how you used to see them.  

DE is an outstanding company, and they're not perfect, but they're certainly going places and doing a great job with Warframe.  It's sad if you don't want to be a part of that anymore, but don't hate on them for being them.

You're glossing over everything and telling some stories to argue without having been around to actually experience the things DE had done to very actively betray and hurt their communities. I don't think you're qualified to make such broad statements with such little experience.

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Digital Extremes is a VERY small company, you know.  ESPECIALLY compared to the much larger game developers that make those "full fledged games".  And they do not charge a dime. sooooo yeah, it is legit. 

Let's see how big a business YOU build in five years when based entirely on donations?

They're big enough to advertise on Times Square and throw the game around so much actual AAA titles got overshadowed. A strawman argument isn't going to help you, I can critique a movie without being a director. In fact, having played the game for well over 3 years I'm as qualified as anyone to properly give feedback on it, DE turning a blind eye and deaf ear to its community is the problem.

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2 hours ago, --Q--Captain said:

Credits, Boosters, Detonite Injectors/Fieldron, Captura scenes, ship parts, g3 drops

They aren't hard either. Once you do them a few times you pretty much figure out how to do them and what goes on. Considering that you can run them at any MR makes the arcanes easily accessible by any player. It's not the game/developers fault because someone isn't willing to go out and try to find help. RSB did exist and they were willing to help any player and teach them how to raid.

You'll also find elitism and toxicity in any part of this game, it's how the internet works.

Better methods for most of them. Invasions,  index, beacons etc. Don't get me wrong, there are still "rewards" but nothing worthy of a daily mission against high level enemies.

I never said that Trials were hard, I stated that they were among the toughest content available. The only other missions in that area are T4 void and Sorties. None of them are hard, but it's the top end of the content we have, hence my point.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Digital Extremes is a VERY small company, you know.  ESPECIALLY compared to the much larger game developers that make those "full fledged games".  And they do not charge a dime. sooooo yeah, it is legit. 

Let's see how big a business YOU build in five years when based entirely on donations?

They aren't as small as you expect.

A company called Leyou (Chinese) own a majority stake in DE, and has for a while now.

 

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

They gave you a GLIMPSE of a Work-in-progress, and suddenly all of you KNOW what it is in it's completed form?  Come on, dude...that's not even a fair judgement.  It's a DEVELOPMENT STREAM, not a FINAL VERSION stream.

They are taking out a cancer.  You may not see anything wrong with Raids on the surface, but clearly DE, who has a VAST amount more insight into it than we do, DOES see issue and is working to resolve it as best they can currently.

I mean, I guess they could have just let the game decay into chaos and not done anything with it....because that's basically what it sounds like you wanted.

Go find another game if you're not happy with this.  Warframe will live.  I'd rather they lose some "vets" than force themselves to change in ways they do not feel are good for the game.

 

Based on what they described, it's a survival mode with mutators, they SAID that, and described how it would work using the standard round-based system of survival.

Now you are letting your bias show "taking out a cancer", sorry but no. Just because you didn't like Trials doesn't give an excuse for them to be removed when they can remain up until their next "evolution" was properly completed and implemented.

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7 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

I've paid money to support this game. Maybe you haven't but this game wouldn't exist without players paying for it.

In fact the devoted Veterans which have been neglected from majority of recent content are the reason this game got off the ground in the first place.

That claim is on record.

My complaint about having 9 million Focus left over is exactly the opposite of your accusation. I'm complaining the game is being devoid of effort to appeal to casual players in exchange for a larger community and larger income. Whether we like it or not. Veterans from 2013-14 are a minority in this game and from experience simply not a priority cuz if we've been dumb enough to stay this long we'll prolly stay regardless how neglected our interests are.

I have paid plenty to DE, and I don't regret a penny.  However, a donation is different than having to pay for the sole ability to download the game or take part in gameplay content.  Things Warframe does not hide behind unlike most other "full fledged games" these days.

As for vets...They aren't "ignoring" you, they're just understanding something you don.  Vets will only ever be as many in number as they were when they started out.  AND the reality of the metrics of gaming communities shows that players WILL eventually move on, as well.
With this in mind, what do you think is going to keep the game afloat 5 years from now? 10? 15?  Not the then-50 year old who has kids, 2 full time jobs, and a mortgage.  But that 17 year old who has a part time job and weekends off? Yup! he can probably afford some plat and playtime.

That's not selfish, that's not greedy or evil.  DE is not just a company, it's people like you and me.  They have families, rent, car payments, grocery bills....etc.  They can't pay for that stuff without pushing more content that encourages sales.  It'd be easy to charge for gameplay, but they don't...so to say they're being lazy or deceitful is unfounded and wholly unfair.  They need to make a living.

In my above example of the bar (not my best metaphor, but bear with me), what is the bar owner to do once all those 65+ peeps die of old age or move into retirement homes?  What about their limited income?  How will the bar owner pay the bills and keep the lights on?  CATERING TO NEW CLIENTELE.  It's business. It's not personal, it's not EVIL, it's just business.

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6 minutes ago, Omega1084 said:

These.. scenarios you're making are totally unfitting and yes, they literally actively lied and ignore feedback. They set up a poll and ignored it, they said they wouldn't touch Raids and they are going to, they're liars. You're glossing over everything and making hypotheticals to hide in. Using your scenario the shop would say "well this isn't our best dish but since you helped us build this restaurant we'll keep it, you have our word" then the next day they destroy the dish and tell you a worse dish is what you want. Despite making a promise. That's lying.

No... you literally can't fight them if you haven't gotten far enough. They're in the Plains and require War Within which is 6 planets away and a ton of game hours. You literally, literally cannot fight an Eidolon unless you're already really far into the game. I didn't say "beat" I said FIGHT. They can't hurt the Eidolon at all.

I love Warframe. That's why I want it to improve, not take away content. Your hypothetical storytime arguments aren't good, they're totally unfitting btw.

You're glossing over everything and telling some stories to argue without having been around to actually experience the things DE had done to very actively betray and hurt their communities. I don't think you're qualified to make such broad statements with such little experience.

They're big enough to advertise on Times Square and throw the game around so much actual AAA titles got overshadowed. A strawman argument isn't going to help you, I can critique a movie without being a director. In fact, having played the game for well over 3 years I'm as qualified as anyone to properly give feedback on it, DE turning a blind eye and deaf ear to its community is the problem.

but you're not critiquing the GAME, you're critiquing DE.  That's a different judgement altogether.

And I'm not ignoring your points.  I just don't see a point in responding because you aren't getting what I'm trying to put across, it's almost 2 am, and quite frankly my hands are cramping up.  

If you want to make DE better, go apply for a job with them.

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7 minutes ago, Sean said:

They aren't as small as you expect.

A company called Leyou (Chinese) own a majority stake in DE, and has for a while now.

 

 

Based on what they described, it's a survival mode with mutators, they SAID that, and described how it would work using the standard round-based system of survival.

Now you are letting your bias show "taking out a cancer", sorry but no. Just because you didn't like Trials doesn't give an excuse for them to be removed when they can remain up until their next "evolution" was properly completed and implemented.

Shareholders =/= employees/workforce.   And having resources and having the ability to utilize them efficiently are not the same thing, either.

The Trials can NOT remain. That was their point. It's costing them time and energy, which you and other people complaining with the same argument CLEARLY don't understand or are not aware of, and in order to fix what they DID need to in Warframe, they couldn't keep spending that time on band-aids dealing with Raids.

They are damned if they do, damned if they don't with you lot.  

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Shareholders =/= employees/workforce.   And having resources and having the ability to utilize them efficiently are not the same thing, either.

The Trials can NOT remain. That was their point. It's costing them time and energy, which you and other people complaining with the same argument CLEARLY don't understand or are not aware of, and in order to fix what they DID need to in Warframe, they couldn't keep spending that time on band-aids dealing with Raids.

They are damned if they do, damned if they don't with you lot.  

A controlling stake means actual control for a company, additionally, more funding, more devs.

 

I know you like to gloss over what most people say, but I will repeat myself:

It would have made sense for them to remove JV due to the amount of bugs within. LoR on the other hand has been stable for a good chunk of time. Patch notes have only really included the occasional fix for JV.

 

Then there's still the other matter such as DE's actual behavior in all of this, which again, is something you appear to choose to ignore.

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Just now, Sean said:

A controlling stake means actual control for a company, additionally, more funding, means more devs.

 

I know you like to gloss over what most people say, but I will repeat myself:

It would have made sense for them to remove JV due to the amount of bugs within. LoR on the other hand has been stable for a good chunk of time. Patch notes have only really included the occasional fix for JV.

 

Then there's still the other matter such as DE's actual behavior in all of this, which again, is something you appear to choose to ignore.

Controlling stake just means they profit when DE does well.  That's all.  It DOES mean they can force decisions with votes, which COULD be the CAUSE for some of these things you all complain about.  DE wouldn't be able to SAY that, lest they lose the income that pays for their livelihood.  But ya know..it's way easier to just judge them and all that.

And I don't gloss over anything.  I've literally read -EVERY- post and replied one at a time FOR that specific reason.

JV may be buggier, but that isn't the bugs they're referring to.  The very existence of Raids is causing issues.   When they make changes to PvE coding, it affects Raids...and all too often, the issues it's caused in Raids have been unable to be fixed without exhaustive efforts that also take away from OTHER things they have promised to deliver (like Sacrifice), which is something you ALSO complain about.  They can't fix ALL the problems AND create new content.

They chose to get rid of what was distracting them and deemed futile, and instead focus on what they believe will bring more enjoyment to more players in the long run.  They may be right, they may be wrong, but only time will tell, and I, for one, will not judge the future before it gets here.

Unless you're a psychic, I don't recommend you do, either.

As for DE's "behavior", all I see are kind developers who share EVERY facet of the game, development and all, even when they don't have to, GIVE AWAY FREE CURRENCY, even when the game itself is free and that would have made them money, and even push to create NEW content, even when the community is super ungrateful for it.

So, i mean....if they say they'll do something, they probably really thought they could do it....then life happens.

You telling me you've never made commitments that fell through?

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Just now, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Controlling stake just means they profit when DE does well.  That's all.  It DOES mean they can force decisions with votes, which COULD be the CAUSE for some of these things you all complain about.  DE wouldn't be able to SAY that, lest they lose the income that pays for their livelihood.  But ya know..it's way easier to just judge them and all that.

And I don't gloss over anything.  I've literally read -EVERY- post and replied one at a time FOR that specific reason.

JV may be buggier, but that isn't the bugs they're referring to.  The very existence of Raids is causing issues.   When they make changes to PvE coding, it affects Raids...and all too often, the issues it's caused in Raids have been unable to be fixed without exhaustive efforts that also take away from OTHER things they have promised to deliver (like Sacrifice), which is something you ALSO complain about.  They can't fix ALL the problems AND create new content.

They chose to get rid of what was distracting them and deemed futile, and instead focus on what they believe will bring more enjoyment to more players in the long run.  They may be right, they may be wrong, but only time will tell, and I, for one, will not judge the future before it gets here.

Unless you're a psychic, I don't recommend you do, either.

As for DE's "behavior", all I see are kind developers who share EVERY facet of the game, development and all, even when they don't have to, GIVE AWAY FREE CURRENCY, even when the game itself is free and that would have made them money, and even push to create NEW content, even when the community is super ungrateful for it.

So, i mean....if they say they'll do something, they probably really thought they could do it....then life happens.

You telling me you've never made commitments that fell through?

 

They would get final say in anything that actually transpires, they wouldn't have bought majority stake otherwise.

Like I said though, more funding, more devs, which makes them not even remotely as small as you initially mentioned.

 

I know you want raids to be some completely unplayable mess that breaks the game at every turn... but where's the evidence in that? While it probably is not enjoyable for the devs to fix (and I quote Steve here) "the millionth JV bug", it is usually JV that is the one that is causing the issues. I am only judging them partially on the future, majority that I am judging them on is the past and present. Little fun fact with "FREE CURRENCY" when it comes to those "plat prizes", it cannot be traded with.

 

Not on a consistent basis, and definitely not by a multitude of years, and most certainly wouldn't have tried to avoid it at all publicly as time went on.

 

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1 минуту назад, Omega1084 сказал:

That's pretty hypocritical of you, given that you actively ignored our arguments and made your own claims without any support. We would hear you out, if you had anything to argue. All you've done till now is be derisive and ignore our claims and our arguments. Now you're calling us children after having made no effort to properly back up any of your claims, instead resorting to telling hypothetical stories that were completely unfitting metaphors to the situations at hand.

You have nothing but a white-knight license under your belt, we have 3-4 years of experience with the kind of game DE plays. You had nothing to begin with and kept dismissing or outright ignoring everything we told you.

You both had nothing to share in first place, that's why this discussion was pointless from start.

@Taishin_Ishu doesn't find fatal flaws in things you point bc from their point of view its not fatal flaw. As much as if from my point of view operator wasn't a mistake but some people wanted to set whole game on fire because of that.

My 2(almost) years of expierence are different than yours and theirs. We have different goals in this game. Even trials are more about expierence than about missions themselves.

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8 minutes ago, Sean said:

 

They would get final say in anything that actually transpires, they wouldn't have bought majority stake otherwise.

Like I said though, more funding, more devs, which makes them not even remotely as small as you initially mentioned.

 

I know you want raids to be some completely unplayable mess that breaks the game at every turn... but where's the evidence in that? While it probably is not enjoyable for the devs to fix (and I quote Steve here) "the millionth JV bug", it is usually JV that is the one that is causing the issues. I am only judging them partially on the future, majority that I am judging them on is the past and present. Little fun fact with "FREE CURRENCY" when it comes to those "plat prizes", it cannot be traded with.

 

Not on a consistent basis, and definitely not by a multitude of years, and most certainly wouldn't have tried to avoid it at all publicly as time went on.

 

DE has 170 employees total. That is, by Game Dev standards, a small staff.  Mind you, those 170 are not all trained in the same specific skillsets, so, its not like all 170 can just jump from task to task, either.  Just mentioning this for context of where I'm coming from.

With regards to the mention (somewhere above) of them putting up the Times Square ad, I can rent a Rolls Royce...doesn't mean I'm a huge success.  It just means that's where I chose to spend the little money I had saved up, and I was banking on it paying off.

They thought the PoE update would bring in an influx of new players (it did) and they also knew Warframe was still relatively unknown.  So, rather than buy a DE Yacht, they spent top dollar gambling on an ad bringing in new players.  It was a high risk, high payoff type of move. The kind of thing that businesses need to do to grow.  

Wearing an expensive suit or buying an ad on a billboard is a sign of money you've SPENT, not money you HAVE. js

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PoE is a Proof of Concept.  That's it.  It was something fun they added to see how it would play out, and it seems more is in the works.  

And I'm saying that they may have gotten the ad not because they COULD spare the money but rather because they needed to take the chance to MAKE more.  You gotta spend money to make it.  I run a business, so yes, I do have valid experience in such matters and can speak on it. 

And I was clarifying my comment to Sean, not to you.  I already said I'm not gonna split hairs with you all night.  I've got more important things to do, thanks.

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Now, I'll be the first one to day that raids were a mess and were obviously in need of some reworking, but the ideas shown behind their removal and them being substituted with eidolons fight as an equal replacement- honestly kinda scares me.

 

"Taking down a Teralyst mirrors the tactics of a Trial in terms of teamwork and communication"

No it doesn't, you need 0 communication to take down a teralyst, you just need to know that you have to bring shields down with operators. And that's it.

Not to mention that they're easily soloable, although that takes longer.

You'd expect in a team-based multiplayer game to have missions that actually require you to have a team...

 

"but can also be done as a lower-level player if properly prepared."

Now THAT is what scares me. You always like to brag about how you listen to your community, well I don't know for how much longer you can cover your eyes: since Void 2.0 the players unanimously asked for one thing: endgame.

If the only endgame-ish rewards that there ever were was arcanes, how comes that they'll be soon available to lower-level players.

Why can't we still have a challengening-ish mod, just one, that rewards the players for actually taking care of their equipment.

 

Also not to mention that there's no way arcanes will not lose their value, even if you make them all 10x as powerful as they're now.

the reason? You just wrote it yourself: lower-leveled players have access to them aswell without needing a particulary good equipment or skillset.

 

Now I just want to point something out: if the players have no reason to acquire powerful gear/improve and polish the one they have, why would they keep aimlessly grind for stuff they're not going to need? They won't. They'll just quit. This is what I'm scared about, and the devs in my eyes clearly don't see it.

 

Well, that said, take it as you will. I'm not bashing devs or anything, but if you're fine with spammers saying that everything is perfect and adding 0 value to conversations, but not with veteran players pointing out constructively the flaws in your grand scheme, or ignoring their feedback, let it be so.

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Welp - there goes about a hundred of us. Can't help but salt, I will keep it low sodium. **would bite my tongue if we were told straight. It's clear that only a handful of us are particularly attached to raids...what incentive is there to sugarcoat this?** pls no sycophants ty.

How lovely to be recognized for our loyalty and repeated completion of the trials!  In...the post where you are announcing their removal.  Conclave events once a year (even one is too many - I know, it's different. But salt), finally when we managed to get players interested in the game, the mode will be removed. At least we won't waste our time testing and failing the alleged "fixes" every time there is an update or hotfix. Out of ~10 error reports I was replied to once. One time. Response was to complain on the forums instead (kind of don't feel comfortable posting my ee.logs here but different strokes, eh?).

I suppose that is all I can say. Would have much more respect for a company and game that so many of us devote time to if you gave us more clarity/honesty than a few sentences about the fact that these are being removed because the future's so bright! How many times have y'all been honest about the countless failures and erroneous patch notes on fixes? It's understandable that this game, company, and situation would resolve in such a way - yet all we get are sparkly soundbytes :D thanks for caring about us so much and saying so many lovely things. We're so enamored we forgot that in about ~3 years of failed fixes (NOTE: I completely understand that mistakes are made ^^ This is the only dev I have ever seen repeatedly post erroneous patch notes and refrain from any sort of apology. A simple "our bad" would have done...wait I don't even need that, it would have been fine if half of us received.

Enjoy the revenue from new players ^^ makes sense that the small percentage of us who actually expend effort to attain items, to attain platinum, to complement our gaming experiences - become expendable when kids acquire steam gift cards for Christmas. How will I be compensated for the 150+ raid keys I have built? Looking forward to swift delivery of whatever that reimbursement will be. I'd inquire to support but as I said, I've received one reply telling me to come here.  Oh well.  It was a good run, bois. Note to self: file Warframe with the rest of the open world sandbox flowery nonsense. Guys, guys! At least we have infested salvage, defection, and whatever else that causes us to lose brain cells ^^ Cheers.

EDIT: 2+ years = temporary...// my full sodium was outed ^^

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